quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Bravo to Chris for posting this.If there were more like him who came out with their negative experiences we would all have a better time on our african safaris.I might just one day post a list of all the things I didn't like about my hunts.But I guess I better wait until I have more posts and there is no show near before I get accused of wanting retribution.

The difference is he layed out specific details of his grievance...you took a cheap shot at CMS who we know ..by your own hunt report...you had a good hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Bravo to Chris for posting this.If there were more like him who came out with their negative experiences we would all have a better time on our african safaris.I might just one day post a list of all the things I didn't like about my hunts.But I guess I better wait until I have more posts and there is no show near before I get accused of wanting retribution.

The difference is he layed out specific details of his grievance...you took a cheap shot at CMS who we know ..by your own hunt report...you had a good hunt with.

You say that going on a full priced, two week ele bull hunt with them and not seeing a 35lbs bull is good hunt?Then being told by your PH a few months later that he has not seen a single bull track in the area for months and that he will refuse taking ele bull clients.My bull hunt took place in an area that was shot out and I was never warned that there was a good chance that I would not see or get a bull.I trusted them and I got shafted.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Bravo to Chris for posting this.If there were more like him who came out with their negative experiences we would all have a better time on our african safaris.I might just one day post a list of all the things I didn't like about my hunts.But I guess I better wait until I have more posts and there is no show near before I get accused of wanting retribution.

The difference is he layed out specific details of his grievance...you took a cheap shot at CMS who we know ..by your own hunt report...you had a good hunt with.

You say that going on a full priced, two week ele bull hunt with them and not seeing a 35lbs bull is good hunt?Then being told by your PH a few months later that he has not seen a single bull track in the area for months and that he will refuse taking ele bull clients.My bull hunt took place in an area that was shot out and I was never warned that there was a good chance that I would not see or get a bull.I trusted them and I got shafted.

. . . perhaps you forgot, I shot a ~40 pound bull there the week before you got there.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
It doesn't matter if the usual crowd jumps down someone's throat for posting a negative report about a favorite outfitter....the report in and of itself can inform potential clients to be warned before they choose to put their money down...and in the end that's all that matters. You might still choose to book but you can't say you weren't warned.

So there ARE forum favorites?

I'm not the one saying there isn't...

But there is a difference between "forum favorites" and "crowd favorites"

Ok, I just see them as one in the same.

I'm not saying Saeed points to and gives special consideration. But if, lets say CMS is mentioned in a negative light ...well, you know.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Shootaway- please clarify why you would not hunt with us after your last hunt. We have given you several excellent hunts , entertained some somewhat interesting behavior on your behalf to say the least and always given you 100% as we do for every client! Here is your chance George!!!

Too many asshole clients for one.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
CMS gave The Montreal moron 3 good hunts, even though his tip after the first one(buffalo) was only $50 to the PH and $100 in total to the rest of the camp staff( although it may have been the reverse, i cant recall for sure). That hunt report seems to be missing in action- not a surprise really considering the number of people here who expressed opinions about the amounts. Of course George blew them off as being everyone else here is rich, he is not AND IT WAS ALL HE COULD AFFORD. Somehow, though, he managed to go twice more on DG hunts with CMS, INCLUDING HIRING A VIDEOGRAPHER TO FILM HIS FAMOUS BUFF COW SHOOT!!! In this instance, things have not been made right and that is a shame. I hunted with Martin's outfit in the Omay and had a fine time and a good hunt....

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Drazan:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
Does not matter of someone's post count here is 1 or a million.


Sorry, that is just an asinine statement. Like suggesting that the years someone has been in business is irrelevant, or how long a doctor has practiced medicine does not matter, or how long you have known someone trying to sell you something is unimportant . . . credibility and reputation are key considerations we use daily to decide what to believe and not believe . . . well perhaps all except the low information voters I guess.

Mike

I'm not I sure I understand your logic, Mike. What does the number of posts have to do with the experience I have hunting or the issue I had with the hunt? For example, you have 12,000 + posts but someone else may have 15,000 posts. Does that imply your trustworthiness and credibility is somehow less than theirs? That somehow, you have a higher burden of proof with respect to your claims? I could rack up a bunch of posts quickly. So what - in your mind - is the threshold? I suspect it's arbitrary.

I've been a member since 2104 and viewing long before that.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Drazan:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
Does not matter of someone's post count here is 1 or a million.


Sorry, that is just an asinine statement. Like suggesting that the years someone has been in business is irrelevant, or how long a doctor has practiced medicine does not matter, or how long you have known someone trying to sell you something is unimportant . . . credibility and reputation are key considerations we use daily to decide what to believe and not believe . . . well perhaps all except the low information voters I guess.

Mike

I'm not I sure I understand your logic, Mike. What does the number of posts have to do with the experience I have hunting or the issue I had with the hunt? For example, you have 12,000 + posts but someone else may have 15,000 posts. Does that imply your trustworthiness and credibility is somehow less than theirs? That somehow, you have a higher burden of proof with respect to your claims? I could rack up a bunch of posts quickly. So what - in your mind - is the threshold? I suspect it's arbitrary.

I've been a member since 2104 and viewing long before that.

Dude, it means you are not one of the favorites.

As Steve said, there are are favorites on here. Next time before you post something negative be sure to put +1 in reply to key poster's post a thousand times or so. Earn your chops!!

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mike:
I have a rep. of honesty here and years of posts under my belt. So why the hasrhness at my last two threads of contracts and my elk hunt? Is it with me, as it is here, just devil's advocate?
I've reviewed your comments on my threads and I seem to meet your criteria. (?)
Not to offend, just curious.
Cal
PS. The OP here has many valid complaints. It seems when ever there is a question or something does not go as planned, the almighty dollar rules and the client takes it in the shorts. IMHO the client should have been informed from day one and offered a refund, or a partial refund for a 2x1, etc. At least he should have been given the choice and Martin should have taken it in the shorts as he set up the deal, not the innocent client. Maybe this is a good reason to use an agent as a middle man to keep the funds here until the hunt is complete. On the other hand if the client signs his rights away in a contract he as no recourse anyway. Such as the thread on the sheep hunt that has been going on here for years. The PH, outfitter, agent, et.al. will get their cut and the client seems to be last--both with an agent or without an agent.

Because it goes back to forum favorites or a protected class, just like I said.

Some can do no wrong.

That would actually be bullshit. The contract thread was about an agent that I have never even met and the elk hunt thread was about an outfitter I have never even heard of. I think it has more to do with a difference in style and approach. I have always been one to address a business issue directly with the person/group that is the source of the issue in my mind as opposed to resorting to the Internet as a source of retribution, shame, leverage, etc. Others take the latter tack. Since they choose to bring their issues to the Internet intelligentsia for input, I am happy to provide my perspective. Your mileage may vary.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

Understood! That said, when you read other's threads containing negative reviews do you ignore the information when deciding who other than CMS to hunt with?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

Understood! That said, when you read other's threads containing negative reviews do you ignore the information when deciding who other than CMS to hunt with?

. . . depends on who is doing the complaining. For example, some folks seem to be habitual complainers . . . they have never been on a hunt they did not have some problem or issue real or perceived with . . . those I tend personally to take with a grain of salt. Same with folks that decide that their first post (figuratively) should be a complaint right in the middle of the show season. Then there are folks like George, hard to take much of anything he says seriously.

quote:

I hunted with Martin's outfit in the Omay and had a fine time and a good hunt....

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
It doesn't matter if the usual crowd jumps down someone's throat for posting a negative report about a favorite outfitter....the report in and of itself can inform potential clients to be warned before they choose to put their money down...and in the end that's all that matters. You might still choose to book but you can't say you weren't warned.

So there ARE forum favorites?

I'm not the one saying there isn't...

But there is a difference between "forum favorites" and "crowd favorites"

Ok, I just see them as one in the same.

I'm not saying Saeed points to and gives special consideration. But if, lets say CMS is mentioned in a negative light ...well, you know.

They have been more than once on the tip thread for posting guidelines for tipping on their website.

Buzz came on and defended the action as just that, a guideline. That may satisfy some and others not so much.

Like someone already posted on here, an outfitter is only as good as his last client. If I went to a highly regarded restaurant and had shitty service and food I would not hesitate to share that information and I used to own a restaurant. You have to earn every customers loyalty and if you screw up with one you tend to loose five as a result.

Your mileage may vary.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
CMS gave The Montreal moron 3 good hunts, even though his tip after the first one(buffalo) was only $50 to the PH and $100 in total to the rest of the camp staff( although it may have been the reverse, i cant recall for sure). That hunt report seems to be missing in action- not a surprise really considering the number of people here who expressed opinions about the amounts. Of course George blew them off as being everyone else here is rich, he is not AND IT WAS ALL HE COULD AFFORD. Somehow, though, he managed to go twice more on DG hunts with CMS, INCLUDING HIRING A VIDEOGRAPHER TO FILM HIS FAMOUS BUFF COW SHOOT!!! In this instance, things have not been made right and that is a shame. I hunted with Martin's outfit in the Omay and had a fine time and a good hunt....

I already tipped those trackers on the first hunt(7 day buff) 600US dollars before they got there tip at the end of the safari which was another few hundred.I tipped Alan a few hundred.I tipped Richard 5500US(2000,1500,2000) on three hunts one being unsuccessful.On my Makuti hunt I had to tip the game ranger 800 dollars.May I add I tipped everyone one else in camp the amount that was suggested I tip them by my PH.I tipped my video guy as well once 500 dollars.On the first hunt with Alan there was a minor conflict between us.I don't want to get into that here-these things can happen.As far as the hunt report that you say is missing in action that is because of the direct link on the CMS web site to AR.Something I am against because I just don't want anyone out there on the net to view it.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
CMS gave The Montreal moron 3 good hunts, even though his tip after the first one(buffalo) was only $50 to the PH and $100 in total to the rest of the camp staff( although it may have been the reverse, i cant recall for sure). That hunt report seems to be missing in action- not a surprise really considering the number of people here who expressed opinions about the amounts. Of course George blew them off as being everyone else here is rich, he is not AND IT WAS ALL HE COULD AFFORD. Somehow, though, he managed to go twice more on DG hunts with CMS, INCLUDING HIRING A VIDEOGRAPHER TO FILM HIS FAMOUS BUFF COW SHOOT!!! In this instance, things have not been made right and that is a shame. I hunted with Martin's outfit in the Omay and had a fine time and a good hunt....

I already tipped those trackers on the first hunt(7 day buff) 600US dollars before they got there tip at the end of the safari which was another few hundred.I tipped Alan a few hundred.I tipped Richard 5500US(2000,1500,2000) on three hunts one being unsuccessful.On my Makuti hunt I had to tip the game ranger 800 dollars.May I add I tipped everyone one else in camp the amount that was suggested I tip them by my PH.I tipped my video guy as well once 500 dollars.On the first hunt with Alan there was a minor conflict between us.I don't want to get into that here-these things can happen.As far as the hunt report that you say is missing in action that is because of the direct link on the CMS web site to AR.Something I am against because I just don't want anyone out there on the net to view it.

So you tipped the trackers $600 BEFORE the start of a 7 day buff hunt and a few hundred more at the end. AND YOU TIPPED YOUR ph A FEW HUNDRED. AND your actual hunt report is MIA. Damn, that's convenient. And I really don't correctly recall the details?? George you are the only person stupid enough to believe that line of BS....

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
How can it not be the first time? It was your first African hunt! Nice try, though....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
Does not matter of someone's post count here is 1 or a million.

Sorry, that is just an asinine statement. Like suggesting that the years someone has been in business is irrelevant, or how long a doctor has practiced medicine does not matter, or how long you have known someone trying to sell you something is unimportant . . . credibility and reputation are key considerations we use daily to decide what to believe and not believe . . . well perhaps all except the low information voters I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
Does not matter of someone's post count here is 1 or a million.

Sorry, that is just an asinine statement. Like suggesting that the years someone has been in business is irrelevant, or how long a doctor has practiced medicine does not matter, or how long you have known someone trying to sell you something is unimportant . . . credibility and reputation are key considerations we use daily to decide what to believe and not believe . . . well perhaps all except the low information voters I guess.

Credibility comes with the number of posts? Sorry, it does not. I see credibility issues everyday, and the number of posts one makes has zero probation value.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Dollar,Yes I think I recall that on my hunt report I may have said I tipped Alan 50 dollars or something like that(I am not sure if it was on my hunt report or on another thread).Yes that was a silly joke I admit.I was less mature back then.I see what you were getting at.AR was a cruel place back then but I am making no excuses.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Look at the number of posts shootacow has.Would anyone consider him a credible source of information? 9000+ posts does not necessarily make him or anyone else believable....

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Look at the number of posts shootacow has.Would anyone consider him a credible source of information? 9000+ posts does not necessarily make him or anyone else believable....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
Does not matter of someone's post count here is 1 or a million.

Sorry, that is just an asinine statement. Like suggesting that the years someone has been in business is irrelevant, or how long a doctor has practiced medicine does not matter, or how long you have known someone trying to sell you something is unimportant . . . credibility and reputation are key considerations we use daily to decide what to believe and not believe . . . well perhaps all except the low information voters I guess.

Credibility comes with the number of posts? Sorry, it does not. I see credibility issues everyday, and the number of posts one makes has zero probation value.

Probative is the word you are looking for . . . are you going to buy a $1250 rifle from someone that just made their first post? I sort of doubt it. You would look for and ask for other information to establish the credibility and bona vides of the seller. Same with any other post. One way someone can establish credibility is to do so through the content of a history of posting. No more complex than that. You stand to know a lot more about the nature of someone with a million posts than you do with someone with one.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Had I been a principal in CMS Shootaway would had to book elsewhere for his hunts. Not only did CMS stand up for him on this forum when everyone was given him the deserved business, they also had him as back as a client.

Sometimes the water is muddy, and sometimes it is clear. What is clear is that Shootaway years after the fact is being very ungrateful to CMS.

I have only had one ten word sentence with Mr. Charlton. Don't know if that disqualifies or enhances my observation.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Shootaway- please clarify why you would not hunt with us after your last hunt. We have given you several excellent hunts , entertained some somewhat interesting behavior on your behalf to say the least and always given you 100% as we do for every client! Here is your chance George!!!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Shootaway- please clarify why you would not hunt with us after your last hunt. We have given you several excellent hunts , entertained some somewhat interesting behavior on your behalf to say the least and always given you 100% as we do for every client! Here is your chance George!!!

Too many asshole clients for one.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Shootaway- please clarify why you would not hunt with us after your last hunt. We have given you several excellent hunts , entertained some somewhat interesting behavior on your behalf to say the least and always given you 100% as we do for every client! Here is your chance George!!!

Too many asshole clients for one.

YOU said it George - you realize of course that you could be one among those so-called asshole clients!

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Had I been a principal in CMS Shootaway would had to book elsewhere for his hunts. Not only did CMS stand up for him on this forum when everyone was given him the deserved business, they also had him as back as a client.

Sometimes the water is muddy, and sometimes it is clear. What is clear is that Shootaway years after the fact is being very ungrateful to CMS.

I have only had one ten word sentence with Mr. Charlton. Don't know if that disqualifies or enhances my observation.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Had I been a principal in CMS Shootaway would had to book elsewhere for his hunts. Not only did CMS stand up for him on this forum when everyone was given him the deserved business, they also had him as back as a client.

Sometimes the water is muddy, and sometimes it is clear. What is clear is that Shootaway years after the fact is being very ungrateful to CMS.

I have only had one ten word sentence with Mr. Charlton. Don't know if that disqualifies or enhances my observation.

LHEYM- That I think is the hard part. You are correct if you go back through posts you will see that I did stick up for George many times trying, wrongfully it turned out, to justify some of his rather strange actions or comments. I gave him the benefit of doubt that he was just a "little different."

One failed hunt in a year that we had 2 failed ele hunts out of 15 (not only in Dande) and after Georges 4 previously very successful hunts and George knifes me in the back. There are other guys on the forum that stuck up for George and have had the same treatment.

Like I have always said on tips- its a personal matter and what George wants to or does not want to tip is entirely up to him(and will not affect the amount of effort put into his next hunt. I think 5 return hunts proves that!) However saying he pays his trackers before hunts is BS! Also saying he paid a game scout $600 can only mean that something transpired on the hunt that I am not aware of and was dealt with a somewhat questionable manner.

On Georges comments on " too many asshole clients" - If memory serves me correct you only shared camp once and that was your first hunt with Allan and that was in Chirisa when owned by HHK. Ross Johnstone was a Ph in that camp with you and he said to me something that I took to heart- "please never let George share camp with other clients- its just not fair on them!"

George we stuck by you through thick and thin even paying compensation and loosing a buff tag when you clearly shot a buffalo cow despite been clearly told by Blake not to. Your own video you posted proves that!!

I think the only truthful comment you made is " You WILL NOT be hunting with CMS again" After 20 years of hunting you have joined an elite club of one- of clients I will not have back!!



Chris- I am sorry to have detracted form you post but there comes a time when I can't bite my tongue any longer! I am even more sorry that you had a bad experience. A safari is after all a holiday and meant to be enjoyed something that I am sure at least we agree on.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Had I been a principal in CMS Shootaway would had to book elsewhere for his hunts. Not only did CMS stand up for him on this forum when everyone was given him the deserved business, they also had him as back as a client.

Sometimes the water is muddy, and sometimes it is clear. What is clear is that Shootaway years after the fact is being very ungrateful to CMS.

I have only had one ten word sentence with Mr. Charlton. Don't know if that disqualifies or enhances my observation.

LHEYM- That I think is the hard part. You are correct if you go back through posts you will see that I did stick up for George many times trying, wrongfully it turned out, to justify some of his rather strange actions or comments. I gave him the benefit of doubt that he was just a "little different."

One failed hunt in a year that we had 2 failed ele hunts out of 15 (not only in Dande) and after Georges 4 previously very successful hunts and George knifes me in the back. There are other guys on the forum that stuck up for George and have had the same treatment.

Like I have always said on tips- its a personal matter and what George wants to or does not want to tip is entirely up to him(and will not affect the amount of effort put into his next hunt. I think 5 return hunts proves that!) However saying he pays his trackers before hunts is BS! Also saying he paid a game scout $600 can only mean that something transpired on the hunt that I am not aware of and was dealt with a somewhat questionable manner.

On Georges comments on " too many asshole clients" - If memory serves me correct you only shared camp once and that was your first hunt with Allan and that was in Chirisa when owned by HHK. Ross Johnstone was a Ph in that camp with you and he said to me something that I took to heart- "please never let George share camp with other clients- its just not fair on them!"

George we stuck by you through thick and thin even paying compensation and loosing a buff tag when you clearly shot a buffalo cow despite been clearly told by Blake not to. Your own video you posted proves that!!

I think the only truthful comment you made is " You WILL NOT be hunting with CMS again" After 20 years of hunting you have joined an elite club of one- of clients I will not have back!!



Chris- I am sorry to have detracted form you post but there comes a time when I can't bite my tongue any longer! I am even more sorry that you had a bad experience. A safari is after all a holiday and meant to be enjoyed something that I am sure at least we agree on.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Had I been a principal in CMS Shootaway would had to book elsewhere for his hunts. Not only did CMS stand up for him on this forum when everyone was given him the deserved business, they also had him as back as a client.

Sometimes the water is muddy, and sometimes it is clear. What is clear is that Shootaway years after the fact is being very ungrateful to CMS.

I have only had one ten word sentence with Mr. Charlton. Don't know if that disqualifies or enhances my observation.

LHEYM- That I think is the hard part. You are correct if you go back through posts you will see that I did stick up for George many times trying, wrongfully it turned out, to justify some of his rather strange actions or comments. I gave him the benefit of doubt that he was just a "little different."

One failed hunt in a year that we had 2 failed ele hunts out of 15 (not only in Dande) and after Georges 4 previously very successful hunts and George knifes me in the back. There are other guys on the forum that stuck up for George and have had the same treatment.

Like I have always said on tips- its a personal matter and what George wants to or does not want to tip is entirely up to him(and will not affect the amount of effort put into his next hunt. I think 5 return hunts proves that!) However saying he pays his trackers before hunts is BS! Also saying he paid a game scout $600 can only mean that something transpired on the hunt that I am not aware of and was dealt with a somewhat questionable manner.

On Georges comments on " too many asshole clients" - If memory serves me correct you only shared camp once and that was your first hunt with Allan and that was in Chirisa when owned by HHK. Ross Johnstone was a Ph in that camp with you and he said to me something that I took to heart- "please never let George share camp with other clients- its just not fair on them!"

George we stuck by you through thick and thin even paying compensation and loosing a buff tag when you clearly shot a buffalo cow despite been clearly told by Blake not to. Your own video you posted proves that!!

I think the only truthful comment you made is " You WILL NOT be hunting with CMS again" After 20 years of hunting you have joined an elite club of one- of clients I will not have back!!



Chris- I am sorry to have detracted form you post but there comes a time when I can't bite my tongue any longer! I am even more sorry that you had a bad experience. A safari is after all a holiday and meant to be enjoyed something that I am sure at least we agree on.