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| One of Us |
I love a good lawyer joke as much as anyone, BUT when I need one(thankfully so far for buying or selling a business), I am certainly thankful for them. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Why does New Jersey have all the toxic waste dumps and California have all the lawyers? Ans: New Jersey got first pick | |||
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My IP attorney sends me and my asst a big chunk of chocolate every year at Christmas. Really good, but like fancy offices, I realize I am paying for all that one way or the other. I have a real estate attorney who wears crappy suits, nondescript office, etc. and bills relatively low ($250/hr) but he is really good...a real life Columbo kind of guy. He doesn't send me any chocolate... | |||
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A top barrister was being driven home in his Bentley when he passed a roundabout where two men were on their hands and knees eating the grass that grew there. He told his driver to go back and stopped in front of them. "What are you doing?", the barrister asked in horror. "well sir, times are hard we've been reduced to eating grass to fill our bellies whilst we see if any casual work comes up", replied the men. "good god that's bloody awful!" ejaculated the barrister, "I won't have a such a thing on the streets of England, you two get in my car, I'll take you home and feed you!" The two men blushed scarlet and tentatively got into the warmth and comfort of the ruched leather interior. As the car drove away the barrister looked out of the window and dreamy with his own generosity said "You'll love my place, the grass is a foot high..."  | |||
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I guess both the OP and Martin won't post the complete details to set the record straight. From my point of view the OP shoudl not have posted if he was not willing to give 100%. And Martin's not posting leaves him very suspect in my eyes. If MP set up the hunt and took money, then it went sour, Martin is the responsible party--not to blame the Namibia guy. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal, the vultures got involved. And as you well know, once they get involved, there is nothing left for anyone. Everyone is a loser. | |||
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Not quite everyone . . . as Josey Wales said, "buzzards gotta eat same as worms".  Mike | |||
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At l;east worms are useful too. They can be used as bait for fish. And you are right, now I can see one use for lawyers - feed for the worms  | |||
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Lead by example Saeed . . . take the anti-lawyer pledge . . . pledge to never again use a lawyer for any personal, commercial or business matter. Turn those idle words into real action. Go for it.  Mike | |||
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I really wish I can. But, just like dealing with lots of undesirables in our daily life. Bankers. Insurance companies. Doctors and so on. We deal with them because we have no other choice. Had a meeting with our bank's CEO yesterday. He came over and we had a long, very friendly chat. And I told him I don't like bankers either. He is coming with his kids next week to look at the animals. I suppose he did not get the message that I do not like bankers!  | |||
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Everyone likes to bitch about lawyers…but they all use them. I've only needed an attorney three times in my life but they saved my ass! We all use bankers, doctors and insurance, so why the bitching? Bitch if you must, but don't use them. It's like the anti-oil lot here in Alaska. They bitch endlessly about the oil companies but live in a near tax free state because of oil, accept the yearly oil dividend check, and have their retirement partially in oil stocks. There hypocrisy equals that of politicians. Good comment, Mike. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Well........if we didn't have so many.....we wouldn't need so many....  | |||
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What's the old line? One lawyer in a small town will starve to death, two lawyers in a small town will each make a good living, three lawyers in a small town will all get rich.  xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Cal, and would would either of us post "complete details"? The post stream devolved into comments about lawyers, negative comments about other hunters, and snarky comments about the posting intent, etc. 13 pages of detritus. It seems like about 6 guys drive the vast majority of posting activity. Hmmmm. Seems the like the idea of communicating a real issue to a mature, thoughtful audience was ill-informed. For that misjudgment, I apologize. Seems my judgment meter needs to readjusted in general. Be safe and good hunting all AR members! Saeed, again, thank you for ATTEMPTING to create a resource for hunters. Chris | |||
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It probably would not have had nearly as much detritus, as you call it, if you had been more forthcoming with posts and facts, emails, dates, amount paid and for what, etc which backed up your story. In fact, your story probably was mostly true, but you presented it like an idiot, who obviously knows nothing about how open forums work. As you stated, you were ill-informed and apparently choose to remain in that state. AFA as you snarky comment towards Saeed, you're acting like a spoiled child who doesn't know what he is talking about and throwing a tantrum because you weren't treated like you think you deserve. If you've got a better forum for your problems, then you should have stuck to it. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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It probably would not have had nearly as much detritus, as you call it, if you had been more forthcoming with posts and facts, emails, dates, amount paid and for what, etc which backed up your story. In fact, your story probably was mostly true, but you presented it like an idiot, who obviously knows nothing about how open forums work. As you stated, you were ill-informed and apparently choose to remain in that state. AFA as you snarky comment towards Saeed, you're acting like a spoiled child who doesn't know what he is talking about and throwing a tantrum because you weren't treated like you think you deserve. If you've got a better forum for your problems, then you should have stuck to it. "quod erat demonstrandum" Be well Gotowardo and hunt well! Chris | |||
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Oh geesh. Latin....try this one on for size. Your knowledge would be considerably more impressive if you hadn't blown some considerable part of 90K like a moron. Faber est suae quisque fortunae xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Very true, Gatogordo. Well said. Chris | |||
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+1 This was an eye opening thread. Neither the client nor the ph comes out looking good because end of day they were not. But I bet the $90k was for conservation of elephants in Namibia and not shopping around by client and outfitter to find a jurisdication from which to import elephant tusk and skin into us. Mike | |||
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I don't think it serves anything to call the OP or MP any rude terms. We can only base our opinion on that is presented to us. I understand why some (or most) won't post a negative report. A couple of gents were quite angry over my post on the elk hunt. I would hope any and all with a less than enjoyable experience would post here to open our eyes to some who we may not want to do business with. If either side is lying, it will come out sooner or later. While I think the OP here should have posted more, personally I find MP's reply to his given information very weak and tend to side with the OP. Regardless, to call either one insultating names won't do anything to further the cause of posting our experiences. (Like the AK forum that won't allow anything negative as it may interfere with their advertisers). I found this post very informative (but it could have been better). Cheers, all. cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I wonder what percentage of the negative hunt reports involve unsuccessful hunts (i.e., hunts where the primary quarry was not taken). Seems like it is a fairly substantial percentage of such reports. Mike | |||
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Mike: I think it would be why the game was not taken. In my case, I was on a road hunt daily on public land. My gripe was not that game was not taken or seen, but why that was so. (At the end of the hunt I asked one of the assistant guides how the hunt could have been done differently. The reply was that horses or atvs could be used to bring me away from the road system and all of the road hunters. I asked why it was not done and the reply it was the outfitter's choice). Two months prior I was in Zim on a no elephant elephant hunt. My PH did everything he could to find elephant but they moved out of the area. I recommend him highly and tipped to show my pleasure. No so with the road hunt. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Just anecdotal, but seems like a good percentage of negative reports are based on unsuccessful hunts. I am sure there are lots of ostensible reasons, but the key element is the hunt was unsuccessful. I know we often say, hunting is hunting there are no guarantees, but makes you wonder if we really take those words seriously. Again, just an anecdotal observation. The actual facts in terms of the number of negative reports that involved unsuccessful hunts might not support the observation. Mike | |||
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Mike: I think you are correct. Do you believe that an unsuccessful hunt, when one is hunting alone, is more tolerable than when one pays for a hunt? I would certainly so if the hunter was made lots of high promises as to success rate. I guess many of us pay for hunts as we can't do it ourselves in many areas. While I agree with you, I don't now if it is possible to determine what percentage is what. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I hate to use George as an example of anything other than moronic behavior but I wonder if many negative hunt reports like his are based solely on the lack of success. My guess is that if George had shot a 50 pound bull on the last day of his hunt, the hunt would have been a grand success. So the entire character of the hunt hinges on the success of the hunt or the lack thereof? That just seems off the mark. The hunt is the same for all the days, you shoot a nice trophy on the last day and the hunt is a success, you get skunked the last day and the hunt is a disaster. Shallow. Mike | |||
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I think you are correct, Mike. Personally, each spring in late May when most of the snow is gone from the Denali Highway I drive up (4 hours) and look for grizzly. The vast majority of the time I see nothing. Sometimes I see one and it's a sow with a cub. Very rarely will I see a shootable male. Getting skunked does not seem to matter if it costs nothing. But, if I paid 10K for each of my dozen trips there to be guided I would expect a better rate of success. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I am sure failure contributes to a bad report. I am equally certain that changing areas and going from 2x2 to 2x1 does as well. I tend to believe the brothers. Posting the proper documents would remove all doubt. | |||
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Along with that, if the guy who you booked with said you would see 3 shootable bears a day on average and if you held out, you might take a giant one. Would that also influence if you said it was a bad hunt? | |||
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Question is, if they had both been successful in taking good bulls despite the change in areas and hunting 2x1 versus 2x2 would the hunt report have nevertheless been negative? Mike | |||
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See your point Mike nevertheless it did not happen and there is ample room for complaint here. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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That is a fair question. | |||
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Arthur Ashe once said, "Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome." I think a majority of hunters give lip service to this idea but a minority actually believe it. Mike | |||
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Reality is that we are judged on, in varying levels, intention, implementation, and outcome. To Mikes comment, yes, I have come to enjoy the journey, the process, as much or more than the outcome. Which tends to mostly be positive.... | |||
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The journey is a big part but everyone likes a Happy Ending! Just saying.... | |||
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If you paid for a Ferrari and were delivered a Yugo, why the hell would you complain? They are both transportation that can take you on all the journeys you want. Geesh. Then, if you found a lottery ticket that the previous owner had left in the glovebox for $1 million, why, obviously you got more than you paid for, and have no reason for complaint, right? Of course, you have still been fucked out of a Ferrari that you paid for and the seller of said Ferrari has pocketed the considerable differences in value, but, of course, it's just part of the journey, right? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Well, not really, since, even if they were successful, with a different PH and only one PH, and not either of the ones they had paid for, and they hunted in a different area than they wanted and had paid for, then there is a great deal of room for complaint. Is the end result all that counts, or is it getting what you paid for and were denied both what you paid for and the chance to refuse the change? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Out of all of the above, I really only have 2 questions that I would like answered. 1) Did the $90K that was paid (no documentation) to MP include one or more elephant trophy fees? And, if so, had the Namibian PH/outfitter (VF et al) been paid for their services and trophy fee? 2) Did Chris Drazan and M. Pieters come to a mutually agreeable dollar/hunt/whatever settlement? Was this in writing or did both parties agree to the settlement? If so, then Drazan's word becomes very questionable in my mind? Of course, I don't know what was said, and, without going back, I seem to recall that the only version of a "settlement" is from MP. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I do not think they have reached any agreement, hence getting the vultures involved! | |||
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From Martin Pieters:
From Mike Drazan (Chris's brother):
Seems to me there is some serious lying going on in this deal by someone and I don't think his last name is Drazan. However, documentation should be easy to supply and the brothers have chosen not to, for instance, just for starters, where MP agreed to or said that he would PH the Namibia hunt, a breakdown of the $90K and what it was for, documentation that the hunt was to be 2x2, if the $90K included at least one elephant trophy fee, has Camelthorn been paid by MP, since he was (maybe?) paid a trophy fee, etc. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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First, sorry for the testy post yesterday - flying from Vegas and healing up from back surgery is not a good combination. Anyway, there has been no particular settlement and while litigation may yield a positive judgment, repatriating any awards would be difficult (impossible). So I'm booking other hunts and just moving on. I just can't see how taking this further would yield much but maybe I'm wrong. I did have an experience in the Caprivi, just not the one I bought. Mike received an email from John Harris who appears to be working directly with Camelthorn to get the trophy fee issue squared away. I think a good thing may have come from this as I've seen a LOT more questions from forum members experiences with outfitters and PHs. More of the "Have you hunted with XYZ?" type questions. Perhaps its just my imagination, but it seems to be the case. So that's a good thing (looking for a silver lining). I'll be hunting in Alaska this Fall and Cameroon next year (or maybe this year, If my wife will let me). That's all for now. Chris | |||
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