Hunting in Africa, or anywhere for that matter, should always be a great experience. It is upsetting to read about people not enjoying that "trip of a lifetime".

It has been my good fortune to have successfully hunted the Omay three times through Martin. I killed my first elephant there, my only leopard, shooting it the first time in the blind during the day, my oldest buffalo shot on a day spent entirely on foot (left the cruiser in camp) my toughest buffalo hunt in the Della Valley, caught plenty of tiger fish, spent extra days in camp at no extra charge, and was always treated well by Martin, his PHs and staff.

The Omay can be a tough place to hunt, I wish everybody would have enjoyed it as much as me.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:
Hunting in Africa, or anywhere for that matter, should always be a great experience. It is upsetting to read about people not enjoying that "trip of a lifetime".

It has been my good fortune to have successfully hunted the Omay three times through Martin. I killed my first elephant there, my only leopard, shooting it the first time in the blind during the day, my oldest buffalo shot on a day spent entirely on foot (left the cruiser in camp) my toughest buffalo hunt in the Della Valley, caught plenty of tiger fish, spent extra days in camp at no extra charge, and was always treated well by Martin, his PHs and staff.

The Omay can be a tough place to hunt, I wish everybody would have enjoyed it as much as me.

You are absolutely right, and I am very happy to hear you have enjoyed your hunts.

I really wish Martin would update us on this fiasco, which apparently was not his fault.

the great sandy desert

it will be hot can be cold

for the few hardy soles that can and do travel there

it will be clean and when you are out in it, you become your own man, there is a strength, a freedom out there in the desert like no other

the unrelenting sun and the light that comes with it will illuminate all that hides on it under it given time

the desert -- sands of time

even if the carcass dries out is covered up for a time

the desert will keep the secret and time will tell all

it is no accident that the people that manage this forum are -- men of the desert

truth and even handed justice is in just as much demand today as it ever was

in time we will know these things

I am thinking of a time 35 year ago in the great libyan desert when we discovered that our man camp was 40 kilometers from the lady be good crash sight

the b 24 is gone now

40 years later the story is told

great lessons were learned changes were implemented

the incompetent navigator was exposed

and the world moved on

if it had not been for the patience and the justice of the desert we might have never known the truth of this thing

but now we do

in time this will make us all better flyers

something that can not happen with out a form such as we have here

I will just say that

a book well worth the read --- lady be good

if you're going to hawk your goods in this bazar best you be good

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
the great sandy desert

it will be hot can be cold

for the few hardy soles that can and do travel there

it will be clean and when you are out in it, you become your own man, there is a strength, a freedom out there in the desert like no other

the unrelenting sun and the light that comes with it will illuminate all that hides on it under it given time

the desert -- sands of time

even if the carcass dries out is covered up for a time

the desert will keep the secret and time will tell all

it is no accident that the people that manage this forum are -- men of the desert

truth and even handed justice is in just as much demand today as it ever was

in time we will know these things

I am thinking of a time 35 year ago in the great libyan desert when we discovered that our man camp was 40 kilometers from the lady be good crash sight

the b 24 is gone now

40 years later the story is told

great lessons were learned changes were implemented

the incompetent navigator was exposed

and the world moved on

if it had not been for the patience and the justice of the desert we might have never known the truth of this thing

but now we do

in time this will make us all better flyers

something that can not happen with out a form such as we have here

I will just say that

a book well worth the read --- lady be good

if you're going to hawk your goods in this bazar best you be good

WTF

quote:

Originally posted by chuckmaxman:

WTF

People shouldn't drink and post.

My sentiments too, Chuck

Yep. That's the most nonsensical post I have seen in years. He puts shootaway to shame.

Sorry for the extravagant and intoxicating offence

will attempt to tone it down for you 4 guys going forward

if you want to please every one sell ice cream

life can be risky

Loved the quote!

Very long thread, but I learn something, just to be more careful, regardless of your previous experiences with the outfitter

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Yep. That's the most nonsensical post I have seen in years. He puts shootaway to shame.

Actually, just one of many like it from him.

Todd Williams


Martin asks how low can Safari costs go?

I've been asking the same question regarding oil prices, especially since the price of oil is largely responsible for my ability to hunt Africa or enjoy a number of other extravagances. Of course, when oil is up, I do well but those outside the industry suffer. Now that oil is down, those inside the industry suffer and those outside enjoy low prices at the pump which translates into more discretionary money for them and their families, at least to some extent as here in the US, and especially Texas, the oil industry has VERY LONG coattails that eventually stretches into construction of new homes, new cars, banking, etc. I remember a prominent PH here making a comment about a year ago that oil prices don't affect the safari industry. My thought at the time was ... give it time and it will!!

It's all relative Martin. I doubt the outfitters and PHs can achieve much success with changing the government's view of milking the cash cow for all it's worth, but the truth is that they've taken prices to the upper limit and beyond for awhile now. The economic pendulum always swings back to correction given enough time. The best bet you guys have for maintaining profit margins at this point is to collectively get your governments to acknowledge the current economic realities and bring concession and trophy fees back in line with what the market is willing to support. Absent that, the outfitters, PHs, wildlife, wild lands, and ultimately the governments will face economic challenges over the long term.

DRSS

You were on target here



how low can prices go--- started by martin -- 7 pages thought quite active at the time -- not really as extravagant as this thread I might add



16 pages 40,790 hits Martin Peters is getting a share of THE MEDIA IS THE MESSAGE is he not



Peters was quite active posting in those days selling hunts and adding content to the forum

not so much now

remember that thread Williams

now we see this fiasco

cash flow stress in a falling market

people do things when desperate

this material reference just may inform the debate

JUST ONE MORE CLUE

"""Guys, like many Zim operators we have commitments to council and wards, we need to sell a minimum # of days to not only survive, but to be able to keep ' giving back ' in the form of education, anti poaching and concession management.

I have several open dates for buffalo and as most of you know, late season in the Omay is excellent.""" AND """Folks, I have annual commitments to council and wards and would really like to keep my PH's in the field.
After negotiations with councils and wards I have managed to cut various fees
Below are costs rates for several hunts I would like to get booked

When you factor in fixed costs from marketing to anti poaching, PH fees to fuel and food amongst others, we have a base cost per day to operate a remote 2 million acre concession, Rates below are @ cost.

Valid for open dates only 2016"""



you most likely will find if you sift the sand a bit

put a timeline to all this, and such

if you have a little skill, to first see and next track spore

then add a just a bit of curiosity and yes you could benefit from a spot of IQ



it's most of it, right here in the histories of this forum -- the tracks that lead us to the wreck sight, marks left in the sand, by Martin's own hand



I am not posting this to make you uncomfortable -- mad -- or nasty

nor am I selling ice cream so

the story starts before the crash

incompetent navigator -- my call

if you're going to hawk your goods in this bazar best you be good

Oh hell, bad Shakespeare is back. Somebody please hide the booze in SLC.

Hi Jerry how are you doing this morning

I believe a hint is being given here gentlemen.

Thank you Larry

I for one would like to air the stink out of this disaster

so may have a tendency to overwork it a bit

still it is what it is

bullying and name calling aside

there is a bottom in all this and its not pretty

Why bother hinting? Just say what you have to say.

If you can't say something and stand behind it then don't say it.

Since when have eloquence and poetic license been sins?

Dudes (and since I am "one of us," I feel justified in calling my fellow AR members "dudes"), please cease with the literary criticism. Or risk the title of Philistine.

I will offer my own haiku on this thread:

Hunt in Caprivi
With cash poor Zim outfitter
Equals colossal goat f*ck

I enjoy your posts, stradling.

And one more haiku:

I would not ever
Hunt with Martin Pieters here
there or anywhere

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Since when have eloquence and poetic license been sins?

Dudes (and since I am "one of us," I feel justified in calling my fellow AR members "dudes"), please cease with the literary criticism. Or risk the title of Philistine.

I will offer my own haiku on this thread:

Hunt in Caprivi
With cash poor Zim outfitter
Equals colossal goat f*ck

I enjoy your posts, stradling.

And one more haiku:

I would not ever
Hunt with Martin Pieters here
there or anywhere

Dude,

not even with the 500 ....

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Why bother hinting? Just say what you have to say.

If you can't say something and stand behind it then don't say it.

At least he said what he had to say but you don't respect him for that.Judging from your character I doubt you would ever warn others about any negative experience you had.

how low can prices go

I give up. What does that have to do with the original ( or any subsequent) topics?

Another hint. He is quoting Martin.

Damn, I knew I should have looked back to pages 1-2...I tend to forget the original topic 16 pages in. But I still recognize bad poetry.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Since when have eloquence and poetic license been sins?

Dudes (and since I am "one of us," I feel justified in calling my fellow AR members "dudes"), please cease with the literary criticism. Or risk the title of Philistine.

I will offer my own haiku on this thread:

Hunt in Caprivi
With cash poor Zim outfitter
Equals colossal goat f*ck

I enjoy your posts, stradling.

And one more haiku:

I would not ever
Hunt with Martin Pieters here
there or anywhere

Dude,

not even with the 500 ....

Nope.

Since Martin's offering elephant hunts, I've been getting questions about how this issue was resolved.

Good News: John Harris and Wayne Grant - two outfitters that had worked with Martin on this hunt - paid funds to the Bumunu conservancy owner to satisfy their agreement and thus allow Mikes trophy to be released.

Bad News: Marin was not responsive to either my claim or to Mike regarding the issue.

Again, I would hunt in the Omay and with some of the PH's Martin had at the time, but would never wire - in advance - any funds to Martin.

If you want more background, PM me.

Chris

Chris: It sounds like Martin’s motto should be ...”I won’t give you the shaft, I’ll sell it to you”.

Hello to all involved in this enormous thread my name is Sean Scott and I am stepping in to improve overall customer relations and communication with Martin Pieters Safaris (from now on referred to as MPS). Some of you may know of my efforts at Jimba with Wayne to promote and develop Chete Safari Area and the challenges faced with Jimba. I AM GOING TO CLOSE this thread! First Martin apologizes to the entire community for letting this and other issues go on he understand his errors and want to rectify any ongoing problems. In the macho world of being a Zim PH communication and disputes with the clientele can be hard for them to manage and or admit to when they come from a world full of jackals and hyenas (along with some pretty bad animals at work as well) but in Martins case time and hindsight have shown him that the only way to survive in a world run by social media and instant communications is to deal with problems head on no matter how painful it may be to the pocket book or ego. So he we go.

I would invite ANY previous client that has any issue with MPS to contact me directly. I cannot turn back time undoing the past but I can show that we are willing to openly address the situation or issues and that we are willingly committed to doing WHATEVER it takes short of Martin committing Hari-kari/Sepuku to rectify these open problems and to demonstrate to the hunting community that we are capable of running an upfront operation at Matetsi Block 5 and our other great hunting areas.

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
Hello to all involved in this enormous thread my name is Sean Scott and I am stepping in to improve overall customer relations and communication with Martin Pieters Safaris (from now on referred to as MPS). Some of you may know of my efforts at Jimba with Wayne to promote and develop Chete Safari Area and the challenges faced with Jimba. I AM GOING TO CLOSE this thread! First Martin apologizes to the entire community for letting this and other issues go on he understand his errors and want to rectify any ongoing problems. In the macho world of being a Zim PH communication and disputes with the clientele can be hard for them to manage and or admit to when they come from a world full of jackals and hyenas (along with some pretty bad animals at work as well) but in Martins case time and hindsight have shown him that the only way to survive in a world run by social media and instant communications is to deal with problems head on no matter how painful it may be to the pocket book or ego. So he we go.

I would invite ANY previous client that has any issue with MPS to contact me directly. I cannot turn back time undoing the past but I can show that we are willing to openly address the situation or issues and that we are willingly committed to doing WHATEVER it takes short of Martin committing Hari-kari/Sepuku to rectify these open problems and to demonstrate to the hunting community that we are capable of running an upfront operation at Matetsi Block 5 and our other great hunting areas.

Uh, YOU are going to close this thread?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
Hello to all involved in this enormous thread my name is Sean Scott and I am stepping in to improve overall customer relations and communication with Martin Pieters Safaris (from now on referred to as MPS). Some of you may know of my efforts at Jimba with Wayne to promote and develop Chete Safari Area and the challenges faced with Jimba. I AM GOING TO CLOSE this thread! First Martin apologizes to the entire community for letting this and other issues go on he understand his errors and want to rectify any ongoing problems. In the macho world of being a Zim PH communication and disputes with the clientele can be hard for them to manage and or admit to when they come from a world full of jackals and hyenas (along with some pretty bad animals at work as well) but in Martins case time and hindsight have shown him that the only way to survive in a world run by social media and instant communications is to deal with problems head on no matter how painful it may be to the pocket book or ego. So he we go.

I would invite ANY previous client that has any issue with MPS to contact me directly. I cannot turn back time undoing the past but I can show that we are willing to openly address the situation or issues and that we are willingly committed to doing WHATEVER it takes short of Martin committing Hari-kari/Sepuku to rectify these open problems and to demonstrate to the hunting community that we are capable of running an upfront operation at Matetsi Block 5 and our other great hunting areas.

Uh, YOU are going to close this thread?

i declare it open back lol ...

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
Hello to all involved in this enormous thread my name is Sean Scott and I am stepping in to improve overall customer relations and communication with Martin Pieters Safaris (from now on referred to as MPS). Some of you may know of my efforts at Jimba with Wayne to promote and develop Chete Safari Area and the challenges faced with Jimba. I AM GOING TO CLOSE this thread! First Martin apologizes to the entire community for letting this and other issues go on he understand his errors and want to rectify any ongoing problems. In the macho world of being a Zim PH communication and disputes with the clientele can be hard for them to manage and or admit to when they come from a world full of jackals and hyenas (along with some pretty bad animals at work as well) but in Martins case time and hindsight have shown him that the only way to survive in a world run by social media and instant communications is to deal with problems head on no matter how painful it may be to the pocket book or ego. So he we go.

I would invite ANY previous client that has any issue with MPS to contact me directly. I cannot turn back time undoing the past but I can show that we are willing to openly address the situation or issues and that we are willingly committed to doing WHATEVER it takes short of Martin committing Hari-kari/Sepuku to rectify these open problems and to demonstrate to the hunting community that we are capable of running an upfront operation at Matetsi Block 5 and our other great hunting areas.

Are you the same guy that knew the "truth" and was defending the former DSC member about the elephant hunt in Zimbabwe and importing the ivory into RSA?

Damn right I am and Ross Jackson was and still is being treated unfairly. You see anyone else charged with a crime anywhere as a result of that hunt?? AND what do this have to do with Martin setting things right as they should be? You post a lot of opinion here where do you get your information? How much of last year did you spend in Africa? I spent 65 days plus a little holiday time at the Namibian Coast and I come by my information first hand and know the people involved. What I don't do is sit at my computer thousands of miles away and judge people I leave that to fellows of your type. I don't have time to do any more than I am doing and even if I did I wouldnt spend it criticizing from the sidelines. Have a nice day SEAN

I am going to make any further discussion of this thread a waste of time. MARTIN did not handle this correctly it was ALL on HIM he takes TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY and I am here as his spokesman to make it right. I think MR. Drazan is not unreasonable and I know he has a legitimate issue that spiraled out of control due to ego and lack of response NONE of which came from MR. Drazans side. That ends now, you can continue to drag this out or preferably wait and see what happens and start a new 30 page thread about my response and our efforts to make it right or chime in on the post about the new kick ass cruisers USAID and the WWF sent us (the game department office at Chete) for anti poaching patrols!! See the new thread under African Big Game Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
I am going to make any further discussion of this thread a waste of time. MARTIN did not handle this correctly it was ALL on HIM he takes TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY and I am here as his spokesman to make it right. I think MR. Drazan is not unreasonable and I know he has a legitimate issue that spiraled out of control due to ego and lack of response NONE of which came from MR. Drazans side. That ends now, you can continue to drag this out or preferably wait and see what happens and start a new 30 page thread about my response and our efforts to make it right or chime in on the post about the new kick ass cruisers USAID and the WWF sent us (the game department office at Chete) for anti poaching patrols!! See the new thread under African Big Game Hunting

how will you counter the ego, Sean? now that you are responsible for him in the good old USA.

I’m confused as to the role SafariSean has in the MPS problem. Are you now a part of the MPS hunting operation? Are you now a public relations liaison for MPS? Are you a spokesman for MPS? Are you strictly here for damage control?

It appears as though you are at least some of these things and what troubles me is that MPS isn’t speaking for himself.

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
Damn right I am and Ross Jackson was and still is being treated unfairly. You see anyone else charged with a crime anywhere as a result of that hunt?? AND what do this have to do with Martin setting things right as they should be? You post a lot of opinion here where do you get your information? How much of last year did you spend in Africa? I spent 65 days plus a little holiday time at the Namibian Coast and I come by my information first hand and know the people involved. What I don't do is sit at my computer thousands of miles away and judge people I leave that to fellows of your type. I don't have time to do any more than I am doing and even if I did I wouldnt spend it criticizing from the sidelines. Have a nice day SEAN

My point was that only the Original Poster, a Moderator or Saeed can close a topic here. I don't recall having participated in this particular thread, although I read many threads in which I don't participate. I'm not sure what you are referring to but submit you aren't doing yourself any favors randomly attacking folks.

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean: . . .
You post a lot of opinion here where do you get your information? Have a nice day SEAN

I received my information about Mr Jackson from the US Attorneys office and his plea agreement. Something not true in the plea agreement? I am sure that Mr Jackson would say everything is truthful that agreement.

As far as Mr Peters, I am glad to hear that Mr. Peters is trying to correct the situation, but how does having someone in the USA saying "I AM GOING TO CLOSE this thread!" remedy anything?

Have a nice day.

I don't have a dog in this fight but it sure seems to me the damage control effort has jumped the tracks with Sean's last three posts.

Sean, I'm sure you and Martin would like the thread to go away but it doesn't work that way here.

So what I'm to understand is that you (and through you, Martin) are agreeing that Chris's issues are legitimate and the excuse for handling it unprofessionally is Martin's ego?

And through you, Martin is apologizing for that and taking full responsibility?

Does that mean Chris and his brother have been made whole financially or is it just the apology and hoping the issue dies?

I'm glad your efforts in Chete appear to be paying off and wish you the very best but I knew when you made the announcement of working with Martin, you were going to be in for another round of challenges here on the forum.

That's not to say Martin can't fix the recent damage, but so far, your efforts on this thread aren't helping him.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't have a dog in this fight but it sure seems to me the damage control effort has jumped the tracks with Sean's last three posts.

Sean, I'm sure you and Martin would like the thread to go away but it doesn't work that way here.

So what I'm to understand is that you (and through you, Martin) are agreeing that Chris's issues are legitimate and the excuse for handling it unprofessionally is Martin's ego?

And through you, Martin is apologizing for that and taking full responsibility?

Does that mean Chris and his brother have been made whole financially or is it just the apology and hoping the issue dies?

I'm glad your efforts in Chete appear to be paying off and wish you the very best but I knew when you made the announcement of working with Martin, you were going to be in for another round of challenges here on the forum.

That's not to say Martin can't fix the recent damage, but so far, your efforts on this thread aren't helping him.

Spot on!

quote:

Originally posted by SafariSean:
I am going to make any further discussion of this thread a waste of time. MARTIN did not handle this correctly it was ALL on HIM he takes TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY and I am here as his spokesman to make it right. I think MR. Drazan is not unreasonable and I know he has a legitimate issue that spiraled out of control due to ego and lack of response NONE of which came from MR. Drazans side. That ends now, you can continue to drag this out or preferably wait and see what happens and start a new 30 page thread about my response and our efforts to make it right or chime in on the post about the new kick ass cruisers USAID and the WWF sent us (the game department office at Chete) for anti poaching patrols!! See the new thread under African Big Game Hunting

Sean,

I appreciate "the buck stops here" tone and message. Especially so for a mess that wasn't yours. Good show.

Brett