quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The motivation was retribution from the outset; it had nothing to do with providing a public service. My view only of course.

Under what circumstances would you consider posting a negative review?

Fair enough. The problem I see with negative hunt reports done in the context of how they are done on AR is that I think they tend to be given disproportionate weight in many instances. On AR someone can have a ten year history of positive hunt reports, someone comes along with a negative report and all of sudden the outfitter is a reprehensible clod that should be avoided like the plague. As someone else pointed out, the whole "hero to zero" phenomenon. To me it is significant to understand that we are talking about people's careers, their businesses, how they provide for their families, etc. so a negative hunt report is not something I personally would do out of spite because I had a bad experience. Face it anyone in business long enough is going to have a situation where the wheels fall off and for whatever reason the customer walks away unhappy. I am not inclined to take the view that "one oh shit wipes out a history of attaboys". Besides, if there is an issue I am going to address the issue directly with the outfitter and move on.

I have much less of an issue with feedback systems frankly like those used by on-line retailers like EBay and Amazon (even some blog sites have vehicles for leaving feedback where positive and negative feedback is captured and cataloged so that at a glance you can see whether a negative experience is an exception or the rule). There I can see the positive and negative feedback all presented together. I can see who is providing the feedback in terms of their experience as an on-line buyer. I can see if the feedback has trended one way or the other over time. It gives me a much more balanced view of what the provider is really like. On AR the reports may be there but how many people actually take the time when they read a negative hunt report to go back and search for and read the positive hunt reports to get a more balanced picture? So we end up with a system like the one we have . . . every outfitter is largely only as good as their last hunt report irrespective of prior positive reports and who is making the negative report. As a consequence I think the implications of a negative report are disproportionately harsh and I am disinclined to make one.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . weak ethical behavior . . . what is your definition of that phrase and is it something that just applies to agents and outfitters or can the phrase apply to clients and hunters too?

Applies to ph outfitters clients hunters and ar members.

I could say go read Rawls or Nozick or Sen for different views of ethics - but given I had to call you Chickenshit on another thread yesterday for not having the balls to directly say things you were implying about me - I will skip the ethical discussions with you.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by twoseventy:

So, Mike, you say you are "disinclined to make one." Does that mean there are no circumstances under which you would post a negative report? And if not, under what circumstances would you post one?

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

To a certain degree activity by AR members resulted in Tom Shankster and Larry Kolneck being denied income, clients, Christmas bonuses, vacations, blaser rifles and so on. such is life.

Mike

I think the inclusion of Blaser Rifles ( ) in that string is possibly a mixing of metaphors.

Larry Kolek was a blaser man whose weak ethical behavior got him banned on a blaser forum.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . weak ethical behavior . . . what is your definition of that phrase and is it something that just applies to agents and outfitters or can the phrase apply to clients and hunters too?

Applies to ph outfitters clients hunters and ar members.

I could say go read Rawls or Nozick or Sen for different views of ethics - but given I had to call you Chickenshit on another thread yesterday for not having the balls to directly say things you were implying about me - I will skip the ethical discussions with you.

Mike

Mike,

I assure you that in any measure of a man, Mr. Jines is no "chickenshit". I would seek other words to describe him.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . weak ethical behavior . . . what is your definition of that phrase and is it something that just applies to agents and outfitters or can the phrase apply to clients and hunters too?

Applies to ph outfitters clients hunters and ar members.

I could say go read Rawls or Nozick or Sen for different views of ethics - but given I had to call you Chickenshit on another thread yesterday for not having the balls to directly say things you were implying about me - I will skip the ethical discussions with you.

Mike

Mike,

I assure you that in any measure of a man, Mr. Jines is no "chickenshit". I would seek other words to describe him.

Jeff

Jeff


Read this thread

http://forums.accuratereloadin...588/m/5741083822/p/1

I am accused of stuff by innuendo and just chickenshit comments with no guts or balls to say things directly. Hell I don't even know what I am accused off. That is pathetic behavior to accused someone of something and not have the balls to directly say what it is.

So the chickenshit title stays atleast for his behavior on ar.

I have meet him once at dsc and he was perfect gentleman. I hunted in TX with Tyler and he said good things about Mike Jines. Maybe the internet makes his alter ego of chickenshit come out. But I don't take kindly to being accused of stuff without even being told what it is.

I have got in heated bash ups with 505gibbs/Brad we meet at dsc and hsc and have a blast.

The Arpf deplorables (lane, jtex, Hyem/Pete) we argue and meet up at dsc and have a blast.

I have to check my notes but I think Mike Jines might be the first AR person I ever meet - 9
Years before I joined AR or hunted Africa. I think I meet him at W Hotel in Union Sqaure NYC in Fall 2001 when Reliant had done an acquisition and had investor presentation.

But I have a basic rule - if you going to accuse someone of something have the balls to do it directly.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I will respond later when I complete my therapy session after being labeled a "chickenshit".

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
George, I am devastated, I live for little else other than your admiration and respect.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . weak ethical behavior . . . what is your definition of that phrase and is it something that just applies to agents and outfitters or can the phrase apply to clients and hunters too?

Applies to ph outfitters clients hunters and ar members.

I could say go read Rawls or Nozick or Sen for different views of ethics - but given I had to call you Chickenshit on another thread yesterday for not having the balls to directly say things you were implying about me - I will skip the ethical discussions with you.

Mike

Mike,

I assure you that in any measure of a man, Mr. Jines is no "chickenshit". I would seek other words to describe him.

Jeff

Jeff


Read this thread

http://forums.accuratereloadin...588/m/5741083822/p/1

I am accused of stuff by innuendo and just chickenshit comments with no guts or balls to say things directly. Hell I don't even know what I am accused off. That is pathetic behavior to accused someone of something and not have the balls to directly say what it is.

So the chickenshit title stays atleast for his behavior on ar.

I have meet him once at dsc and he was perfect gentleman. I hunted in TX with Tyler and he said good things about Mike Jines. Maybe the internet makes his alter ego of chickenshit come out. But I don't take kindly to being accused of stuff without even being told what it is.

I have got in heated bash ups with 505gibbs/Brad we meet at dsc and hsc and have a blast.

The Arpf deplorables (lane, jtex, Hyem/Pete) we argue and meet up at dsc and have a blast.

I have to check my notes but I think Mike Jines might be the first AR person I ever meet - 9
Years before I joined AR or hunted Africa. I think I meet him at W Hotel in Union Sqaure NYC in Fall 2001 when Reliant had done an acquisition and had investor presentation.

But I have a basic rule - if you going to accuse someone of something have the balls to do it directly.

Mike

Any long term AR guy knows certain people have certain convictions that are not easily changed (nor should they be). Don't take it personally; Mike has his views on tipping that are not terribly different than mine. But I totally disagree with him on the MP post - I don't care what the motivations are. Even thought Mike J is dead wrong (IMO) on the issue, I am sure he will sleep well tonight, as will the rest of us.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
As Ivy Baker Priest said, "I may be wrong, but never in doubt."

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
As Ivy Baker Priest said, "I may be wrong, but never in doubt."

And you always have me watching your 6...

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


If there were a village, completely comprised of village idiots, George would be that village's idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


If there were a village, completely comprised of village idiots, George would be that village's idiot.

I'm sorry if it offends but that comment is a cracker!

quote:

There is a difference in cussing and cussing someone. I would suggest he is due an apology.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I disagree with Mjines concerning this issue. I hope I have disagreeed with him intelligently and respectfully on the issue.

He has provided answers to my double rifle reloading questions. He has been very generous to me in person.

I have not read anything that warnts him being cussed. If fact, my standing rule is I do not hurl profanities directed at individual humans. I will not take none.

There is a difference in cussing and cussing someone. I would suggest he is due an apology.

quote:

Funny how two men who would probably defend each other within the confines of an African thicket cannot get their shit together on the Internet?

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Funny how two men who would probably defend each other within the confines of an African thicket cannot get their shit together on the Internet?

One's probably a Republican & the other a Democrat

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Funny how two men who would probably defend each other within the confines of an African thicket cannot get their shit together on the Internet?

One's probably a Republican & the other a Democrat

One is a normal human being, and the other is a lawyer

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
It was Charles Dickens that wrote, ". . . if there were no bad clients, there would be no good lawyers."

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
It was Charles Dickens that wrote, ". . . if there were no bad clients, there would be no good lawyers."

The actual quote is:

"“It is a pleasant world we live in, sir, a very pleasant world. There are bad people in it, Mr. Richard, but if there were no bad people, there would be no good lawyers.”


― Charles Dickens, The Old Curiosity Shop

quote:

A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, “Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don’t know where I am.”

The man below says, “I’m happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude.”

After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: “You must be a lawyer.”

“I am” replies the man. “How did you know?”

“Well,” says the balloonist, “everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.”

The man below responds, “Indeed. And you … You must be a client.”

“Why, yes, I am,” replies the balloonist, “how in the world did you know?”

“Well,” says the man, “you don’t know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault.”

quote:

A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, “Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don’t know where I am.”

The man below says, “I’m happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude.”

After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: “You must be a lawyer.”

“I am” replies the man. “How did you know?”

“Well,” says the balloonist, “everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.”

The man below responds, “Indeed. And you … You must be a client.”

“Why, yes, I am,” replies the balloonist, “how in the world did you know?”

“Well,” says the man, “you don’t know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault.”

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . clearly a reference to clients.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, “Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don’t know where I am.”

The man below says, “I’m happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude.”

After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: “You must be a lawyer.”

“I am” replies the man. “How did you know?”

“Well,” says the balloonist, “everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.”

The man below responds, “Indeed. And you … You must be a client.”

“Why, yes, I am,” replies the balloonist, “how in the world did you know?”

“Well,” says the man, “you don’t know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault.”