The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting TIPS! The Subject Keeps Coming Up Frequently, Please Help.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Hate to say it Cal but for a American hunter in Africa tips is the cost of doing business. Ask you ph for staff amount. I increase mine. The ph rate is pretty standard. One can increase it but there is a expectation built in. Like world wide income tax - tipping in Africa is a cost of being an American. Mike | |||
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Nice to know this. Us not Americans do not have to tip then!  | |||
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You don’t but knowing you Saeed I assume you do well. And even if one is not a American and only needs to tip a handshake. Tip the local staff well - your $/euros/pounds/what ever Chinese linked currency is used is Australia  matters to the staff.Mike | |||
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Can you use bitcoin?  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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I am with Saeed and others on this one...the more it is suggested and the higher amount you recommend, the less you will get from me. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Probably with zim phs in 2017 Seemed liked punting in bitcoin was the in thing in Zim. Sure sign of a top in any financial asset is when your ph is punting around in it  Mike | |||
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| one of us |
Personally I think tips should not be a topic of conversation unless the hunter brings it up during the hunt. I do think at hunt's end that a question from the PH to his hunter such as "What do you think about a tip for the staff" is not out of line as it allows time to consider it rather than fumbling around with the tips the morning the hunter flies out. This is also the perfect time for those that don't tip to "own it". Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Sorry Mark, I do not agree with you on this one at all. The PH has no right to even mention tips to his client. Neither those adverts who keep mentioning tips in their offers. It is up to the client if he wishes to give any tip, it should never be expected. | |||
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Saeed, I've never expected you and I would agree on everything. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Very true Mark. I just do not like the attitude of some outfitters and professional hunters who seem to like putting the subject of tips, which are at the client choice, right in your face. You want a tip? Provide a service well beyond what the client has already paid for, and I am sure no one will resist the temptations to pay a good tip. | |||
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| one of us |
Whatever the reason a client does not give a tip is no ones business.An outfitter asking for a tip would be like a client setting some kind of standard for the outfitters performance and demanding compensation if he is not satisfied. I think that asking for a tip is bullying- a pure lack of class. | |||
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I was told some outfitters in North America are expecting 15-20% of the total cost of the hunt as a tip!! If this is true, clients negotiate a price, and then they are expected to cough an additional 20%?? Come to think of it, can someone please enlighten us what is the current rate of expected tips on a African safari? | |||
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Saeed, I've never had a conversation with a PH about an expected amount for a tip for him. I have been recommended an amount for a staff tip a couple of times but I usually just give the PH some money and let him distribute it as he knows the pecking order. I know what I give and what I recommend if asked but I don't know that there is an expected norm. I do think that basing the tip on a percentage of the cost of the hunt is silly. The PH and crew are going to work as hard on a buffalo hunt in Zim at $1,300 per day as they are on a similar hunt in Tanzania at more than twice the price so why would you tip more in Tanzania or less in Zim. A tip in my mind is based on how hard I feel the whole crew worked for me regardless of what the hunt cost. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree with both of you. I tip based on the experience and the service. I have had a "list" given to me in the past. Once I fell for it but the rest of the time, I tip as I see fit. Great service, great attitude, treating my wife like the Queen of Sheba = great tip Great animal does not equal great tip. | |||
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I think Saeed's statement above identfies the start the whole "problem". As soon as the word's like "rate", "expected", or "recommended" start being used it is no longer a tip for "service" it becomes "expected income". As soon as becomes part of an expectation and operators, PHs, or any other service provider starts adjusting either their pricing or their revenue projections based on some amount of tip it becomes a slippery slope. I would also say that clients haven't helped the "problem". I can remember probably a dozen years ago a post AR where folks were literally bragging about how much they tipped as if that somehow increased their stature in life. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
I get asked by close to 50% of my hunters “ what should I tip the guide? Or even what should I tip you, as I guide over half my hunters personally each fall. To me personally it is an awkward situation. So I include it in my fact sheet that I send out before the hunt. It has directions on where to fly into, or directions to the ranch if driving , meat processing, option of purchasing trip insurance and a couple companies for that, and then also tipping , I put it as the industry standard is 10% put a tip is never expected at our company. It is solely at the discretion of the hunter. You will get 110% effort wether you tip or not. From me as an Outfitters standpoint I would rather have a hunter leave me a deposit for another hunt then a tip. What I find interesting here is everyone is fired up about tipping but no one cares about having to pay a 14 or 18% vat to a government that puts the money in their general fund to spend on whatever they want. Most likely nothing to do with the hunt you just enjoyed or any industry associated with it? | |||
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A client asking advice on a tip by himself is fine. Putting it in writing and handing it to him is not, regardless of how it is done. | |||
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| One of Us |
The best answer to the question about tipping is: None is expected, any amount is appreciated, and it definitely needs to be an amount you feel comfortable with and is within your means. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One of Us |
And that is exactly how it should be. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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One of Us |
Tips = extra. I only have one paid hunt so far. But, my so-called guide just pointed and said your stand is 200 yards that way. So, tip - $0.00 Now had he been with me side by side doing everything he could to successfully put me on a nice whitetail buck, a tip would have been warranted. Let the tip reflect the effort. Same with dining out. It's all about the class of the server not the food. The server doesn't make the food. Pushing the manager to drop the bill for a botched entree will get you more of a tip based on the origiinal price. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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The subject of tipping always reveals some strange attitudes, readiness to take offense and downright cheapskate advice. But on the above-quoted and well-said baseline approach, I would hope we can all agree. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| One of Us |
Great thread Saeed. Sorry I don't qualify for a PM. Hope your list/compilation is coming along OK. I had concerns about tipping in case I get to Zim or S. Africa one day. Thanks. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Giving an African PH using his own vehicle and his own crew a $100/day tip never bothered me (or tipping the rest of the camp's staff at the end), but having a charterboat at $1000/day essentially demand $200/day for the deck hand (customary in Florida) still doesn't set right with me. I know plenty of capable people who would pay to be a deck hand on a charterboat out for a day's fishing. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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| One of Us |
How right you are but $1,000? Try off shore...definitely More than $1,000....more like $1,500....how about the most expensive place on earth to fish..Venice Louisiana...$1,700+++you pay the gas (several hundred more) so the $1,700 is pure boat payment for someone plus huge profit And then want bigs tips on top. The 10-20% rule in Venice is outrageous IMO and I’m generally. A very good tipper | |||
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Apparently some Alaskan outfitters are falling into this very same group! | |||
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They are just following some of the Kiwi outfitters / guides! Fat profits at the top end and then happily pocket US tips.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree Mike
Like I have posted before there is now a general expectation and Mikes post hits the nail on the head. It is the one thing, that unmentionable expectation hanging around like a bad smell that I feel detracts from the whole experience. Regards Stu | |||
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While that is certainly the history of the tip, now, it is a way to increase the cost of a safari by 10-20% without publishing a dollar figure. It is an emotional manipulation, with the implied 'threat' that those that don't tip will be thought of as cheats. For the most part, people generally want to be liked, which is why the end of safari tip shakedown is so effective. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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| One of Us |
Tipping varies quite a bit. It is key to ask your outfitter upfront to give you a comprehensive list of everyone in every camp that expects a tip. (cook/kitchen $100/day; trackers $50/day; game scout $50/day) then the PH $300?day and videographer $200/day are separate. In my case, the vidiographer is also a PH so he gets PH rates. It depends on how hard they work. More work = more $$$ | |||
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Anyone who gives me this list, will get ONE BIG FAT ZERO! They can get as mad as they like, because they will never see me again anyway! Tip should be what I decide to give. Not dictated by others. I have crossed “service charge” off my bill in 5 star restaurants when the service provided did not warrant it, and refused to pay it. | |||
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| One of Us |
I’m sorry, but PH tips being about or more than their salary? Seems excessive to me. The video guy is usually an independent contract you sign. Telling us to pony up PH rates for them as well? Frankly, the outfits I’ve used mention well less than that... | |||
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| one of us |
Sir, These numbers to me are exceedingly high. I have many clients ask about tipping amounts. I would guess my recommendations would come to maybe a third of yours. I've never had a complaint about tips. Ever! Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
I gave a tip to my guide on an unsuccessful caribou hunt in Alaska. His reply was, "Why are you giving me a tip when you did not get a caribou?. My answer was that the tip was for his efforts during my hunt with him. The migration was late, and there were no caribou in the area, something he could not control. On another caribou hunt in Quebec, I did not tip my guide because his performance was not acceptable, but I tipped his wife, who was the camp cook. The best advice I ever received about tipping was from a famous outfitter. He said that 3% of the hunt cost was sufficient for a guide, and if the guide was the owner or partner in the business, then nothing is required. The outfitter was very adamant about this, saying further that much of the conversations about tipping are driven by writers and video producers in the outdoor industry who don't have to pay for the total costs of their hunts, and can afford to be generous tippers. Mandatory or suggested tip amounts are non-starters for me. | |||
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| One of Us |
Anyone who gives me this list, will get ONE BIG FAT ZERO! They can get as mad as they like, because they will never see me again anyway! Tip should be what I decide to give. Not dictated by others. I have crossed “service charge” off my bill in 5 star restaurants when the service provided did not warrant it, and refused to pay it. I couldn't agree more on this. I once paid a PH what he stated he wanted just to be rid of the POS. The guy was so disgusting that being near him just pissed me off. Now however, If the same thing is tried on future hunts, I'll just give them nothing and not lose one wink of sleep over my decision. | |||
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So, on a ten day hunt: cook $1000 tracker $500 Game scout $500 PH $3000 camera guy #2000 How about the remainder of the camp staff??? One word is sufficient: bullshit. My last Zimbabwe PH was a tip-a-holic. Hints of tips from the first day, pre hunt statements such as, "Bring me this and this and this from the states and deduct it from my tip." After two hunts this, combined with a lot of nickel and dime financial stuff, he will see me no more. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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That would add up more than the cost of the hunt. Not to mention your suggestions for laborers are MORE than the minimum wage in the USA where labor is much more expensive. I agree $100-$200/day for the PH, but the rest are usually between $10-20 a day at the most. | |||
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Beyond absurd. What alternative universe do you live in?  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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Whenever someone keeps mentioning tips, so one cannot forget it, I tell them where we come from no one gives tips! That really makes their day! | |||
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| One of Us |
To me it is simple. I do what I can afford to give. I am not giving a tip to make up for wages someone may not be getting because there employer is under paying them. If they do a great job I will do the best I can but if it is not earned I will give less. | |||
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That was funny Jerry. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting TIPS! The Subject Keeps Coming Up Frequently, Please Help.
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