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Question for those that tip the game scout (government employee) if you are audited by the IRS and you receive a no change audit result do you tip the auditor? After all his is just a low paid government paid employee. | |||
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I personally think that tipping is out of control. I was in camp on a 21 day full bag hunt this year. At the end of the hunt I was given a "recommended" tip sheet. There were 19 people on the sheet (I was told before hand there would be 13 staff members to tip) and the recommendation added up to $5,400. This did not include the PH's tip. Doug | |||
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I would never tip anyone who told me in advance what he expected and second to that as the owner of my company I don't expect a tip at all. Any tips that come in go directly to the staff in equal portions as they all make up part of the wheel which keeps us all turning. They also need it far more than anyone else and 100US goes a long way even between 5 or 6 people I have had clients who have become friends who have give money for my kids, to buy something nice for my wife etc, but these are guys who are more family friends now than hunting clients. In this case I dont see it as a tip, but rather as a gift from a friend. The Safari industry is really great in respect of the top class people you end up meeting though it. As has been said before though, if you think the guy has gone the extra mile, you can be damn sure that a financial reward will keep him positive that much longer than a slap on the back. Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I always find these tipping scenarios interesting and some of the situations our members ran into baffling. I've hunted with 13 different safari companies, stayed in 29 different camps and hunted with 15 differnt PH's. Only twice has tip come up before the end of the safari and that was prompted by my own questions. It just is not Kosher for the PH or the staff to bring up a tip until the end of the safari and only then as in "Would you consider a tip for the staff". I don't want to hear any stories about how the staff will mutiny if not tipped handsomely or the Game Scout will cause you problems. TIPS ARE NOT WAGES and a safari operator that allows his staff to beleive that needs to bare the responsibility for the consquences. On the other hand a long tern memeber here on AR once said "If you can't afford to tip don't go". I beleive that when your planning a safari you should figure a tip into your total cost. If you have not saved enough money to tip at the level appropriate for the service you have received you need to save longer. A tip is for an excellent job done and part of the safari expereince. To try and save money by skrimping on the tip or not tipping when everybody has done a great job taints that experience. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Perhaps it would help others on this forum to avoid that outfitter if you actually named who it was. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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He is not hunting any more so would not do any good in naming the company JK | |||
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Bloody hell. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Dammit why can't you Americans work out tipping. Wasn't it you that invented the stupid practice and introduced it around the world to other countries. Service industries! Is not your doctor, lawyer, dentist, shopkeeper and anyone else you buy something off supplying a service? Do you tip all them? It is a shameful degrading practice that has come back to haunt you. You have even introduced to my country in the guiding industry. It is not needed, not warranted and should be banned. If you want a feel good factor from splashing your money around, give it all to a charity. not to those in paid employment who should be paid an honest wage for the work they do. If they are not paid enough in wages then you are too damn stingy in the first place paying for a service. Having to put your hand out, or god forbid presenting a hunter with a list for tipping, is the ultimate degrading practice and for me, dishing out like some superior to a beggar it would also be degrading. | |||
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I guess it depends on what country you are hunting in. Last year in Ethiopia - Manassa camp for Mt Nyala and Bushbuck there were 9 trackers, game scout 1 national and 1 local, skinner (also tracker) camp cook, driver, and house boy. In the Omo there were two trackers, national game scout and local game scout, cook, and a few cleaning ladies. The tip was the same for both camps and the total was less than $1000. | |||
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On the other hand a long tern memeber here on AR once said "If you can't afford to tip don't go". I beleive that when your planning a safari you should figure a tip into your total cost. If you have not saved enough money to tip at the level appropriate for the service you have received you need to save longer. A tip is for Mark[/QUOTE] I'm sorry Mark but I disagree. When is enough enough?? You have 19 people standing there looking at you with their hand out. I am not going to put a trip off another year so that I can "Save" more money to give everyone a handsome tip. I am going to go when I can go...life's too short. You stayed in 29 different camps? Don't forget that you are in the business so you can expect to go pretty much every year I would guess....it's not so cut and dry for most of us...next year may never come so the time to go is when you can go. This tipping issue really pisses me off. I hate the "entitlement" attitude. A tip is just that, a tip. It is my way of giving an extra "Thank You" for a job well done. It shouldn't be expected, just appreciated. The silent dummy in the back of the truck with the AK-47 gets nothing. | |||
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I'm an American and I completely agree. It goes in line with a bunch of other stupid stuff like what everyone seems to claim in the U.S.A. Every organization is "award winning" but we don't know by who. All bottled water is "premium." If your kid doesn't get an A in school he/she can still make the "C" honor roll. It's kind of like we believe the Lake Wobegone line that goes, "where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking and all the children are above average." For those that aren't familiar with Lake Wobegone, it's a mythical town in Minnesota invented by the story teller Garrison Keillor. It's impossible that every safari operator offers "exceptional" service yet a majority probably expect tips. You will have to have some below average, some average and some above average. It has even gone so far that some will argue that even though there were no good animals to be hunted and accomodations were poor that so and so "worked hard" so should get a tip. It's time hunters were willing to call a spade a spade. I have an offer; you can come to Ohio and go tiger hunting. I have a 100 acre concession. Unlike some hunt purveyors, I'll at least tell you that the closest I ever came to having tigers on my property was a couple of years ago when several were turned loose about 50 miles from me. It will only cost you a few thousand dollars, I will work hard and I'll expect a handsome tip for my efforts. | |||
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Here is a tipping rate form one of the Safari operator in Africa. $ PER HUNTING DAY Manager $20 Cook $15 Waiter 1 $10 Waiter 2 $10 General hand $10 Skinner $15 Asst. Skinner $10 PH $100 Camera man $30 Tracker 1 $20 Tracker 2 $20 Game Scout $15 I would like to know if the Safari companies pay the workers more per day than the recommended tipping guide. It would be beter for the hunter if the all the tips were built into the cost of the hunt because we would then know the ture cost of the hunt. Tipping many not be a big deal to hunters with lots of money to spare but with hunters like me who have to save up to get to hunt Africa is sure is joe | |||
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Sorry, I have not seen where anyone suggested that a tip is an entitlement and should be given regardless of the service rendered. You want to go and not pay a tip, have at it. That is your prerogative, just as it is someone's else's prerogative to give a tip. I have a hard time understanding the apparent anger folks have over tipping, if it offends you don't do it. Mike | |||
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Leopardtrack, First I don't expect everyone to agree with me and second if everybody didn't put in a full blown effort on the safari there would be no reason to tip at all. Leopardtrack said "I hate the "entitlement" attitude. A tip is just that, a tip. It is my way of giving an extra "Thank You" for a job well done. It shouldn't be expected, just appreciated." I agree with your above 100%. My point is that giving a tip for great service is part of the safari experience and I think one should be prepared to tip if things go well or they are cheating themselves out of part of the pleasure of safari. I think if you read back on my post you'll see I don't agree with the tip being "expected". Actually I don't go every year and if you check my hunt reports you'll see that. I have been fortunate enough to lengthen out some safaris to include multiple destinations but it's less expensive that way because I'm not flying back and forth between the States and Africa so much. A little off topic but I think folks have the misconception that people in the "business" as you say get a lot of free hunting or hugely discounted hunts. That's just not true. Are there some perks? You bet but far fewer than people imagine. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Expect the reality is where American hunters hunt (we are the majority) it has become expected. We have taken our practice for going to a nice steakhouse and moved it to a 20k hunt. Maybe it is priced in and the price of the hunt is discounted to reflect tip payment. But anyone want to bet on condition of their trophies if they tip no one in camp ? Mike | |||
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To me tipping or not should be an issue of services rendered regardless of suggested amounts. Tipping an outfitter who acts also as a PH is in my opinion no different than being just the PH. I would say an outfitter who also participates as the PH holds a great deal more with responsibility than just that of a PH. This was the case with me and my Safari and given the outstanding effort and personal attention I gave the best tip I could afford. | |||
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Entitlement, expectation, part of the deal, the culture, a necessity to top up wages, a discretionary service tax - call it what you like, you are just playing with words. It all comes back to the same thing, an unknown quantity to tack on to a service you have paid for, obnoxious to some, a pain to others, a feel good to many who can afford it without affecting their lifestyle. Wouldn't life be simpler if we just paid fairly and justly for a service where the provider determines what he needs to earn to cover the expenses of the service he provides and gives him the lifestyle commensurate with the effort he puts into his work. Competition in any market will usually determine the worth of the service and of course the quality. Poor quality or too expensive you are out of business. Is now out of fashion for a simple heartfelt thank you for a good experience or service? Does money somehow negate the human expression from the heart. | |||
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Maybe the whole "Tipping" issue should be addressed from another standpoint. WHO started the whole 'Tipping" concept? I know this is in the African Hunting topic area, but the concept of gratuities for a job done well is not uniquely African in origin. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Then DON'T tip. Sheesh. Pretty simple actually. Is anyone forcing you to tip? Mike | |||
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Eagle27 - Having been to NZ and AUS a few times myself, and sent numerous clients there too - all with the same story when they return, I have this to say if I may. And frankly, this actually applies to NZ more so than AUS. One way or the other my friend, you/I/we are paying for it, dammit why can't you Kiwis work that out? For those of you that haven't been to NZ, wait until you see the prices for breakfast at the hotel restaurant - SHOCKING?? As I recall, for myself/cameraman in NZ last year - one morning I paid over $70.00 for the two of us to eat a continental breakfast!!!!! Ya, the same hotel restaurant where tipping is widely frowned upon, thus the hourly wage for all employees is a lot higher than here. The same applies for lunch, dinner, the cab ride - and go on down the list. Honestly, its unbelievable - and why, cause one way or the other, someone's gonna pay for these people to work. Be it with a LOW hourly rate/tips like most wait staff here in the states, or with high hourly wages and very little tipping in NZ. Either way, the buck gets passed to the customer - period! Its not rocket-science, its just simple math. Oh, and don't even get me started on the $35.00 per hour in-room WI-FI rate I was paying last June in NZ. I about had a come-apart! Otherwise, I can tell you all as a guide/outfitter/manager for the past 22 yrs. Tips to the boss should NOT expected - but are always greatly appreciated, and we thank everyone of you for your consideration. Personally, I always tip the outfitter/guide. But most likely cause I too have been one, am one, and know what its like to walk in his shoes. Some years are good, sometimes things are lean - so everything helps. | |||
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But I might get a cow buffalo head back instead of the old dagga boy head  | |||
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Aaron they must see you coming a long way off or you are choosing the most expensive joint to stay in. I would hardly spend that much for two for an evening meal main in a good restaurant. And I would be telling them where to stick the Wi-fi charge. | |||
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Cal I am shocked to see this. It is well known in Australia and NZ that we DO NOT have a tipping culture. Minimum wages are by law living wages - in NZ it is $13.75 an hour. In Oz it is $16.37 per hour. This is rock bottom unskilled wage. I just paid $20 an hour for a 2nd year student in Electronics engineering who did some testing and documentation work for me. I have noticed that some guides have tried to bring in the tipping factor as a result of US clients being so obliged to tip.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Ya, must just have been all the places myself, and my clients go every time we are in NZ - cause the logic behind my explanation certainly makes no sense - right?  | |||
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Just want to get this straight so I don't screw up a local economy or anything. When in NZ or OZ I'm expected to leave ZERO tip for anyone? Eagle27, could I have your name so when I give ZERO to Matt Graham or any other Oz outfitter/guide they will understand I am doing this for the good of the local economy. BTW, Eagle27, when you travel outside NZ or OZ do you refrain from tipping in any way? I recommend you don't return to the same place twice for dinner unless you can clearly see your meal being made in the kitchen. Just a friendly piece of advice. Cheers Jim ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I carry a Z$100,000,000,000,000 Zimbabwe bank note with me, and I show it to all the staff as we arrive. Telling them how much of that they get depends on the service I get! Works like a charm! I ALWAYS have GREAT service  | |||
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That seems about right for the trackers and staff on a 21 day safari in Tanzania, assuming the staff was good. Game scout should be handled separately and discretely, in my opinion. As far as game scouts, my tips have varied widely. I had one female game scout who was afraid to go into anything thick and mostly sat in the truck. Her tip was minimal. My last trip, the game scout helped cut brush for blinds and worked his tail off. You would have thought he was one of the crew. His tip was far more substantial. The PH is a separate deal obviously. An appy, that adds to the mix. Clearly not planned, but how hard did they work? I tend to go back to the same outfits, if not the same areas. I see not only the same PH's but likely the same trackers, and often the same crew. I don't want the reputation of being a cheap skate. And, we all have a really good time. | |||
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from Wiki: Etymology and history[edit] The first usage of the term "tip" in the sense of giving a gratuity dates back to 1706. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the meaning to "give a small present of money to" began in c.1600, and the meaning "give a gratuity to" is first attested in 1706. The noun in this sense is from 1755. The term in the sense of "to give a gratuity" first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning "to give; to hand, pass", which originated in the rogues' cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip, meaning "to strike or hit smartly but lightly" (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, "to tap"), but this derivation is "very uncertain". The practice of tipping began in Tudor England.[5] "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host’s servants. Soon after, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments. 0351 USMC | |||
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I have never tipped in NZ or Aussie, it is not a normal part of our culture and has only been perpetuated by visitors to our country. Admittedly and unfortunately it has become accepted/expected in some parts of our culture, that of the hotel/restaurant service business and now more the shame, the safari/hunt guiding business. It has most definitely not been developed from within our own culture, the ordinary kiwi and aussie just get on and provide the service they are paid for. During my time in Germany and some other countries I did not tip and neither did my friends, some of were who were extremely well off. They told me that it was not normally a practice they followed even in the hotel/restaurant business. That was over 20 years ago, may have changed now. Like me they might have all been stingy  Tell Matt to set his fee to provide him with the standard of living he thinks he should enjoy from the fruits of his labour. The quality of his service and the competition from other outfitters will determine if he should be in business, just the same as the level of salary I'm paid for my services, I don't get tipped for performing my job. | |||
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Ok, back to regularly scheduled programming.... So I am planning my first PG safari. 10 days, up to 10 animals in RSA. Wife coming as observer. Daily fees plus trophy fees will run about $13,000. Using the 10% plan, I have $1,300 to distribute to the PH, tracker, skinner(s) and domestic help. Without further instruction/education, I would probably give $800 to the PH, $150 to the tracker, $20/animal to the skinners (so up to $200) and $150 to split up among the domestics (I expect only 2 or 3 would be involved). Is this out in left field, or does it seem reasonable? Tim 0351 USMC | |||
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How does it affect you if it is becoming prevalent in the safari industry? Not sure how my name got dragged into this - but there is nothing about tipping in any of my company literature. Clients can tip staff if they want to, or not. We get quite a lot of Aussie and Kiwi clients too and they rarely tip - none of the staff bitch about it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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NO - it was said it was frowned upon... by local hunters. Obviously Cal's example given was extreme... certainly not something I would put my name to. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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The issue of the owner getting a tip is simple in my opinion: the profit from his operation is return on his capital; the profit from being a PH is the return on his labor. I tip him. As I recounted elsewhere on AR, I had a hunt where I had a 70 year old guide who had smoked cigs for 30 years. I could walk circles around the guy; the whole thought of getting stuck with such a guy was a real downer for me. But in the end I tipped him $600 - not a great tip, but not bad considering the circumstances. It is interesting every time this subject comes up I get a really good feel for how much certain people respect others who don't make a lot of money. The vibes come out loud and clear. | |||
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Yeah that is true. Traveling to North America can be a real hassle for us southern hemisphere types - when it ccomes to tipping. I know I am more likely to give someone, a taxi driver or waitperson - a better tip, not just if they gave really good service but if I think they could really use it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Joe, It is my experience that in Wild Africa there is no such thing as a tipping rate form. The norm is for the PH to recommend and suggest a margin to suit all pockets. I once hunted an extremely wealthy individual who drank excessively during the day. End result is we did not get on at all even though he shot his Lion. Because we had our differences he refused to tip the camp as some sort of inane punishment to me. My staff accepted that he was a prat and that was that. He received his trophies in a timely manner like all the rest. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Sorry Matt I was replying to Frostbits questions and perhaps I should not have answered in the manner I did in respect of what I thought you should do. I only intended that as an answer to Frostbit and not to you personally. I know from past posts your thought on the subject. It does perturb me to read some of the posts where it is implied that if you do not tip you will not get the service or "unless you can clearly see your meal being made in the kitchen. Just a friendly piece of advice" as Frostbit put it. This is suggesting that even though most defenders of the tipping practice say it is not compulsory, there seems to be a culture being bred where certain individuals won't perform their normal job unless they are guaranteed or have a high expectation of receiving a tip. What a travesty if this is the case and what an indictment on this practice. I hope you all tip your surgeon well BEFORE going under the knife  | |||
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There is no 'normal' in the hunting industry... not in the tipping nor in the work that staff perform. If tipping was ever standardised or normalised in this industry - it would be a bad thing. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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There has been many comments here where the operator gets the lions share, this is not always the case ,in recent years the costs of running a successful operation has gone through the roof and margins a very tight along with added political pressures etc. Also PH's get 6 months off to be with their families ,do summer farming etc which bring in added income, so I don't believe there is a difference on tipping whether he's the outfitter or not. If he works really hard there's no difference. If the operator gets the lion's share it is for all the extra stresses they go through. There are many operators who do not actually hunt themselves so for their work they get a share, a operator who also hunts to try ensure he can give his clients the best possible experience is working harder, spending time away from his family etc. Anyone who insists on tipping should not get tipped either. It is totally optional to show your appreciation for a great hunt and hard work . It is the PH who ensures that every member of the hunt gives their best to ensure a happy client. If you don't believe in tipping then don't tip. PH's and operators understand that not everyone has a similar bank balance but the staff are a different story and feel like they have done something wrong if not tipped at all . As the system has been in place for many years it is difficult for them to understand why they all of a sudden don't get a tip. Tips are really appreciated by all members of a hunt but the bottom line is it in not compulsory but is a sign of appreciation from the client to the PH and the camp staff for their efforts and incentivizes the team to give 100% to the hunters who come out. | |||
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I do not have any idea as to who makes what and who owns what concerning the company I am hunting with.I never asked anyone how much he makes because it is not my business therefore I can only go on my feeling and from bits of info I gather as to how much they do make.I believe that the PH is not making tons of money and that the tip makes up most of his pay. | |||
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