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I have an idea of how much to tip everyone involved in a PG safari. My question is specific to a PH who owns the reserve. As the owner of the property and host functioning also as the PH, what is the rule on the tip?
 
Posts: 118 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 12 November 2011Reply With Quote
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I don't tip the owner.
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Me neither.


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Posts: 2786 | Location: Northeast Louisianna | Registered: 06 October 2009Reply With Quote
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If the owner of an outfit is actually my PH I tip him just as I would any other PH.


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Posts: 626 | Location: OK USA | Registered: 07 June 2009Reply With Quote
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If your PH does a great job what difference does it make if he is the owner or an employee? A tip is a symbol a job well done regardless of who does it. I have hunted many times with the safari operator or the owner of the hunting company. It never entered my head to not tip them.

Mark


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Posts: 13050 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JA:
If the owner of an outfit is actually my PH I tip him just as I would any other PH.


+1, if he doing the same job as any other PH, why would he not be tipped like any other PH?


Mike
 
Posts: 21746 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I have no objection to tipping an owner who serves as PH, but the logic would be that as the owner, he's already earned a profit on my hunt. The PH relies on tips as his compensation - he is paid by the owner but I would bet that the lion's share of his compensation is in the tip. He isn't getting any of the profit from the hunt itself.

Can anyone offer any insight into how PH's are compensated? Am I right that they - like many in the service industry - depend on tips for their livelihood? (As opposed to an owner, who depends on the profit of his business for his livelihood?)
 
Posts: 193 | Location: Cherry Log, Georgia | Registered: 01 May 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JA:
If the owner of an outfit is actually my PH I tip him just as I would any other PH.


Exactly! Why would you not? He's guiding you, just like anyone else.

Mark Young - Agree as well!


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Posts: 4888 | Location: Boise, Idaho | Registered: 05 March 2009Reply With Quote
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I have hunted with a particular PH several times, both on his lands in SA and in other countries. I tip the same either way. The tip is a gesture of thanks for excellent personal service, not for rent.
 
Posts: 2827 | Location: Seattle, in the other Washington | Registered: 26 April 2006Reply With Quote
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If the owner of a fine restaurant waited on my table because his help left sick and did a good job he would get a tip.

I hunted with Johnny du Plooy and the last I heard he owns Muchinga. He got a tip.

I hunted with Andrew Baldry, the Epitome of the one man band. He got a tip.


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Posts: 7624 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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In the case of fine dining your tip is likely split, the sommelier, the servers on the team, the bus boy all get part of the tip. In that case you would naturally tip the waiter/owner and he would then make the distribution. In this case we tip the house staff, the cook, the trackers, skinners, and driver separately, so I am not sure that the situation is similar.
 
Posts: 118 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 12 November 2011Reply With Quote
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I'm split on this one, fellas.
I like to tip if it is appreciated, needed, and earned. The owner is making all the money off my hunt anyway. A hired PH earns far less and my tip goes farther with him than with the owner. Most owners I have done business with just put the extra in their pocket and it is no big deal. My last PH I tipped 100$ per day and also the staff got a fair tip for a job well done. The look on his face said it all. I've never seen a look of appreciation from an owner as I did here.
So, I'd rather not tip the owner unless he does something special for me. Of course, that said, tipping has become expected rather than earned in today's Africa. My first PH, in 1994, actually told me the first day how much he expected as a tip. I guess I've been a bit sour ever since.
But, it's just me and my 2 cents.
Cheers friends,
Cal


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1994 Zimbabwe
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1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
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2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
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2005 South Africa
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2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
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2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by BuffNut:
I have no objection to tipping an owner who serves as PH, but the logic would be that as the owner, he's already earned a profit on my hunt. The PH relies on tips as his compensation - he is paid by the owner but I would bet that the lion's share of his compensation is in the tip. He isn't getting any of the profit from the hunt itself.

Can anyone offer any insight into how PH's are compensated? Am I right that they - like many in the service industry - depend on tips for their livelihood? (As opposed to an owner, who depends on the profit of his business for his livelihood?)


I have been told by several PHs they are paid $200 a day for big game and $250 per day if they have their own vehicle. With this they get gas/diesel and food. Less for plains game, of course. This is in Zim.

You guys with more experience than I, correct me if I am in error.

A PH spends about the same time giving you a good hunt (or a bad one) with on a plains game hunt or a lion hunt or an elephant hunt. Tippping varies greatly on those hunts, of course.
Cal


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Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by BuffNut:
I have no objection to tipping an owner who serves as PH, but the logic would be that as the owner, he's already earned a profit on my hunt. The PH relies on tips as his compensation - he is paid by the owner but I would bet that the lion's share of his compensation is in the tip. He isn't getting any of the profit from the hunt itself.

Can anyone offer any insight into how PH's are compensated? Am I right that they - like many in the service industry - depend on tips for their livelihood? (As opposed to an owner, who depends on the profit of his business for his livelihood?)



Here is where I agree with Cal.

As mentioned above, why would the PH rely on the tip as his compensation?
Why isn't he paid enough for his job in the first place?

Is it going to be as bad as in the hotel industry, where a "service charge" is added, regardless of how good or bad the service is?

I have been to some 5 star hotels, and have refused to pay the 15% service charge they added to the bill for a "service" that was terrible.

This has never happened to me on safari, and paying a tip is never a problem.

May be the safari industry should take a leaf out of the banker's book.

And pay themselves a "bonus" that is several times their salary, rather it being a small percentage of it.


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Posts: 68910 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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On my 2012 Australia hunt the owner of the company stated, both in person and in the literature, that tipping was mandatory and expected "to keep the hired help returning each year." My thought was why not pay the help (staff and PH) a decent wage to begin with? The owner made about 35,000$ (five of us in camp) in five days. Perhaps he should share it with his hired help.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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I think it is wrong to assume that owner/operators are making plenty of money in this industry, especially over the last 5-6 years. Or that owner/PH's dont greatly appreciate client tips.

While I do find the whole topic of tips somewhat uncomfortable - I am sure happy and grateful to get them when offered. I give all mine to my wife, she is the one who puts-up with me being away from home for 6-7 months of the year - the time away I must take, to make this safari hunting thing happen.


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
On my 2012 Australia hunt the owner of the company stated, both in person and in the literature, that tipping was mandatory and expected "to keep the hired help returning each year." My thought was why not pay the help (staff and PH) a decent wage to begin with? The owner made about 35,000$ (five of us in camp) in five days. Perhaps he should share it with his hired help.
Cal

call me old fashioned but the term "tipping" and "mandatory" do NOT belong in the same sentence. sort of like "donation" and "mandatory".. stir


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Posts: 13552 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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...speaking of SCI
 
Posts: 925 | Registered: 05 October 2011Reply With Quote
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A tip/gratuity is merely a gesture to Thank Someone for a good job. If you do not believe in leaving a tip, DON'T. Really simple concept.

As a guide, I am going to do the exact same job for EVERY client that hunts with me. All a tip does for me is show me that I did a good job for my clients and they appreciated it.

If you do not want to leave a tip or believe in tipping, DON'T.

That is as simple as it gets folks.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Regardless of whether you hunt with a PH that is an owner or an employee, I think something to bear in mind is for those that hunt with the same PH on multiple occasions, a tip serves a dual purpose. One it is way to acknowledge and thank someone for their efforts and services on a hunt just completed. In addition though a tip says for future hunts, if you work as hard on the next hunt you stand a good chance of receiving similar acknowledgement. Someone used a restaurant analogy earlier. Go to a restaurant and do not leave a tip. Return to that same restaurant and get the same waiter and I would not expect the same level of service as the customer that left a nice trip on their first visit. I agree that tips are discretionary and a way to acknowledge exceptional service, my point is simply that whether you tip and what you tip not only impacts someone's current perception of you, it impacts their prospective perception of you and how they are likely to treat you.


Mike
 
Posts: 21746 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I hate this subject.

I am going to tip my PH on:

1) How much I think he deserves
2) How much I like him
3) How much I can afford to give him

I am not a wealthy guy. It is hard enough putting the money together for the hunt itself.

It is not my problem if the owner/outfitter doesn't pay his PH a fair days wage.

I am not going to cut my hunt short or kill a few less animals so that I can give the PH a huge tip. From trip to trip, I have no idea on when I will be able to go again so I have to treat every hunt as if might be my last one...the PH's tip is secondary to this.

With that said, I do tip very well. I always go home with nothing in my pocket and I make my PH understand from the get go that I am not a rich guy and that I am going to tip him as much as I can.

If I am ever given a demand by a PH I will tell him up front that I am giving him what he deserves and if we get along good then he is getting as much as I can afford to give him. If that's not good/honest enough then walk now.

In short, I am a working man just like him and I will do the best I can.
 
Posts: 6080 | Location: New York City "The Concrete Jungle" | Registered: 04 May 2003Reply With Quote
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It has even got to where hunters tip the game scout, a government warden sent to keep an eye on us and get in the way. the last one we had sat on the back of the truck and texted his friends all day. He was still on the tip list, what shit that is.
 
Posts: 194 | Registered: 13 January 2012Reply With Quote
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I'm weighing in here - perhaps where I should fear to tread, but IMO a tip is a reward for doing a great job, whether the PH is the owner of the land or not as long as he is the PH.

Things to look for -

1) is he enthusiastic, does he want the best, is he prepared to go the extra mile, does he entertain you, does he pretend to laugh at your stories, is he tolerant of your bad shots, IS HE A GOOD HUNTING COMPANION, if the vehicle breaks down, does he stay up till 2 am fixing it to go out at dawn the next day, or does he not really give a rat's and just drives around talking to his mates on his cellphone in a language you don't understand?

2) at the end do you feel that you have had the best safari it is possible to have had, or do you feel that you were just given barely adequate service? Were you treated fairly, or do you feel cheated?

If the answers to the above questions are positive, yep, he deserves a tip, otherwise not - anyway it should be up to YOU, the client.

As for demanding tips, because you want to ensure the PH returns next year - well pay him yourself (the outfitter/landowner, that is). His labour relations are nothing to do with me.

Just talking about the PH here and it's MO.


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Posts: 1048 | Location: Canberra, Australia | Registered: 03 August 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
On my 2012 Australia hunt the owner of the company stated, both in person and in the literature, that tipping was mandatory and expected "to keep the hired help returning each year." My thought was why not pay the help (staff and PH) a decent wage to begin with? The owner made about 35,000$ (five of us in camp) in five days. Perhaps he should share it with his hired help.
Cal


From past heated discussions on the subject of tipping, we were led to believe that "tipping Down Under" was frowned upon and discouraged.
Some posters even went to the extent of saying it was considered an insult in that part of the world Wink
 
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Originally posted by joester:
...speaking of SCI


jumping
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by dande_jack:
It has even got to where hunters tip the game scout, a government warden sent to keep an eye on us and get in the way. the last one we had sat on the back of the truck and texted his friends all day. He was still on the tip list, what shit that is.



D/J:

Would you have preferred he lived up to his name and "got in the way" and to tip him at the end or hope you get another one like him?
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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I'm weighing in here - perhaps where I should fear to tread, but IMO a tip is a reward for doing a great job, whether the PH is the owner of the land or not as long as he is the PH.


I would not call it a reward as such but more of a token of appreciation for the services rendered; not mandatory nor quantifiable, a tip does not have to be in monetary form either.
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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A tip to the PH is part of the safari tradition and should be followed by a hearty handshake and a slap on the back. A big grin is often appreciated. The amount is incidental but as a bonus it is very much appreciated.

Never heard of a PH proffering the amount he should receive and such buggers should be paid in left over candy.

The odd double thrown in also goes down well.


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Posts: 9994 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by fairgame:
A tip to the PH is part of the safari tradition and should be followed by a hearty handshake and a slap on the back. A big grin is often appreciated. The amount is incidental but as a bonus it is very much appreciated.

Never heard of a PH proffering the amount he should receive and such buggers should be paid in left over candy.

The odd double thrown in also goes down well.


And fishing gear. Big Grin


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DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141
 
Posts: 7624 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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A wasps nest of a subject! My last 'big hunt' on the last day went along the following lines -

PH, appi PH, 2 x trackers, scout, skinner, camp manager, cook, tent boy, laundry girl and a scout somewhere in the shadows. I was happy to give them all something as I had a better than expected time in all ways.

When I got home my bank manager gave me a tip ..... "please fund your account!"

Hunting - as addictive as cocaine and twice as expensive!


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Posts: 2334 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Very touchy subject, I hunted tanzania last March for Buffalo and Masaai species, on arriving in camp I find out that we have been given a second Ph and tracker to make our lives easier, after a few days I realised that only reason he was there was because his safari was cancelled and he was there for the tip on our safari, all he did was sit in the vehicle and offer some conversation,

I got ahold of the outfitter and made sure he knew that I was not interested in him being on our hunt, that night I was asked to give him a tip for the days he spent with us, as well as his tracker who also only sat next to the driver waiting for the safari to end,

Next surprise was at the end of the Safari when the game scout demanded a $1000 tip, outfitter warned me that if I did not do this I might not see my trophies again,

I have always believed that a tip of $100 to $120 per day for the full staff component excluding the Ph is more than generous for any safari,
 
Posts: 494 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 10 April 2013Reply With Quote
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Tipping should be abolished. Why should you tip if they do a good job? Shouldn't they always do a good job?

What tipping tends to do is foster the attitude that if there is no tip, then not do a good job. With everyone down to the cook and bottle washer getting tips, you finally end up with the police officer messing things up so he/she can get a tip for straightening things out. You also end up with everyone thinking they should get a tip even if they do a half-assed job.

By the way, if I ever saw any mention of tips being required or even suggested amounts of tips in the literature or web site of any hunt purveyor, they would be off my list of ones to use.
 
Posts: 2911 | Location: Ohio, U.S.A. | Registered: 31 March 2006Reply With Quote
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It sometimes seems like posters want to brag about how big they tip. Most outfitters don't like big tippers as the help then expects the same from every hunter. Last fall I hunted in Ethiopia with Nassos and I gave him tip money for the STAFF, he counted the money and said too much and I said that is OK he said no and said he would credit my account for dipping and packing for the excess which he did. It was not a biG tip. I have heard people talking of 10% of the hunt cost as a tip guideline does that include trophy fees government fees what is the base.
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jkhunter:
Very touchy subject, I hunted tanzania last March for Buffalo and Masaai species, on arriving in camp I find out that we have been given a second Ph and tracker to make our lives easier, after a few days I realised that only reason he was there was because his safari was cancelled and he was there for the tip on our safari, all he did was sit in the vehicle and offer some conversation,

I got ahold of the outfitter and made sure he knew that I was not interested in him being on our hunt, that night I was asked to give him a tip for the days he spent with us, as well as his tracker who also only sat next to the driver waiting for the safari to end,

Next surprise was at the end of the Safari when the game scout demanded a $1000 tip, outfitter warned me that if I did not do this I might not see my trophies again,

I have always believed that a tip of $100 to $120 per day for the full staff component excluding the Ph is more than generous for any safari,


Sounds like you were paying the scout to cover the operators wrong doings?


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Posts: 9994 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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If I can't afford to tip, I can't afford to hunt. It's an expense I budget for...

On my hunt a second PH was in camp as he was then out of work (Zambian PH). He took photos and videos (all shared with me) and helped out my PH. When I was talking tips with my PH, he mentioned there was no need to tip the second PH, but I did so anyway. The second PH made a polite turn down of his tip, but relented when offered a second time. I never felt any pressure.
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: Simpsonville, SC | Registered: 25 June 2006Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen,
Obviously this new guy hit on a really touchy subject. A lot of interesting points to think about. I agree it is difficult for any outfitter to pay his entire staff as well as he might like and that tips serve a dual purpose to incent the staff to do well and to supplement a low wage. Still the PH owner of a large property is quite a few rungs above me on the social ladder. If I tip I don't want to insult, if I don't, I hope that as a gentlemen he excepts my sincere thanks for his excellent performance. Simply I don't want to screw this up one way or the other. Thank you all for your thoughts.
 
Posts: 118 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 12 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Several outfitters that I hunt with state right time of booking that there will be 10 percent added to total for TIP. I agree to this and if I feel that some of the help does a good job I will give them an added amount but I never increase the tip to the owner/ph .
 
Posts: 1096 | Location: UNITED STATES of AMERTCA | Registered: 29 June 2007Reply With Quote
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[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you were paying the scout to cover the operators wrong doings?[/QUOTE]



Andrew I would hate to think that as all permits were in order and animals taken were on quota, I think it has become a easy way for this Outfitter to make sure he has the scout on his side if he did something in the future,

I did not like doing it but I felt heavy armed into it, I was in a situation when hunting Polar Bear where I refused to tip a person who was truly a waste of time on the safari, when I left he told me I will never see my bear again,

and 6 months later a skin arrived in SA of a small female bear half the size of the one we hunted
 
Posts: 494 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 10 April 2013Reply With Quote
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when the owner outfitter was my PH in RSA, he did a fantastic job and I tipped him well as I would tip any PH. I had an owner in Namibia who was not our PH demand all the tips for the trip including the PHs go to him to distribute. I didn't like that at all. I gave him tips for house staff and skinners etc, but I tipped the PHs and trackers individually. As stated above the tip should go with a smile, thanks you and handshake. I am convicned with this particular outfitter that some of the tip money I would have given him for the PHs would have stayed in his pocket


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Posts: 236 | Location: North Carolina, USA | Registered: 17 January 2012Reply With Quote
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I had an owner in Namibia who was not our PH demand all the tips for the trip including the PHs go to him to distribute. I didn't like that at all. I gave him tips for house staff and skinners etc, but I tipped the PHs and trackers individually.


I had that same experience in Namibia and handled it the same way.

I also tip the game ranger but in the two hunts I've been one where one was present, neither really added much to the hunt - both walked with us at all times and participated to a modest degree in tracking, but neither really did much. I tipped one the same as the other trackers and the other slightly less.

The Appy PH situation was new to me in Zimbabwe last year. I did tip the Appy but I reduced the PH's tip (not by an equivalent amount) to help cover it.

Like Badger Matt said, I consider it part of the expense of the hunt and I budget for it. But when they surprise you with an extra PH - as they did on my Zimbabwe trip this year - you have to cover a tip to him as well as everyone you're already tipping.

I also had a cameraman who was awesome - particularly at spotting duikers and grysbok and spotting game in general. He spotted more game than anyone else in our party. I tipped him much better than I had budgeted for.
 
Posts: 193 | Location: Cherry Log, Georgia | Registered: 01 May 2011Reply With Quote
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