quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Been guide when I was young
I did it because it kept me in woods and I was good at it
I remember when some guides got pissy if tip wasn’t big enough and that’s stupid and moronic to me
I wouldn’t hang around them and had no respect.

2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.

Only 2.5%? Peanuts. I have 2.8%. Hope one cannot recognize it immediately

I'm guiding in South Africa, not as a ph but as a tourist guide. Sometimes clients do tip me, I always feel sort of embarrassed. I mean I'm trying to do a good job, without expecting a tip for it.

Gratuities: Though gratuities are not required on WSI hunts, it is customary for hunters to tip both their guide and the cook. Clients should use their discretion in determining a fair and reasonable gratuity for the camp staff. Camp staff always appreciates tips. Here is a suggested “rule of thumb” on tipping amounts, but please consider that the cook’s tip may need to be higher, per hunter, if there are only a few hunters in camp.

Hunt Price Gratuity Amount Per Hunter
Up to $1,500 $200-$300 (Guide) $50 - $75 (Cook)
$1,500 - $3,000 $300-$400 (Guide) $75 - $100 (Cook)
$3,000 - $5,000 $400-$500 (Guide) $100 - $125 (Cook)
$5,000+ 10%-12% Hunt (Guide) $125 - $150 (Cook)

Hunt Exclusions: Miscellaneous items not provided with WSI hunt packages include hunting license, taxidermy, shipping of capes/antlers, airport shuttles, and alcoholic beverages. Some of these services or amenities MAY be provided for an additional fee.


https://wildlifesystems.com/all-prices.html


I got an email from them about an hour ago, I am on their email group.

Prices are ok, but not sure if I would hunt with them or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Gratuities: Though gratuities are not required on WSI hunts, it is customary for hunters to tip both their guide and the cook. Clients should use their discretion in determining a fair and reasonable gratuity for the camp staff. Camp staff always appreciates tips. Here is a suggested “rule of thumb” on tipping amounts, but please consider that the cook’s tip may need to be higher, per hunter, if there are only a few hunters in camp.

Hunt Price Gratuity Amount Per Hunter
Up to $1,500 $200-$300 (Guide) $50 - $75 (Cook)
$1,500 - $3,000 $300-$400 (Guide) $75 - $100 (Cook)
$3,000 - $5,000 $400-$500 (Guide) $100 - $125 (Cook)
$5,000+ 10%-12% Hunt (Guide) $125 - $150 (Cook)

Hunt Exclusions: Miscellaneous items not provided with WSI hunt packages include hunting license, taxidermy, shipping of capes/antlers, airport shuttles, and alcoholic beverages. Some of these services or amenities MAY be provided for an additional fee.


https://wildlifesystems.com/all-prices.html


I got an email from them about an hour ago, I am on their email group.

Prices are ok, but not sure if I would hunt with them or not.

If I enquirer about a hunt and get this, they will never see me hunting with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Gratuities: Though gratuities are not required on WSI hunts, it is customary for hunters to tip both their guide and the cook. Clients should use their discretion in determining a fair and reasonable gratuity for the camp staff. Camp staff always appreciates tips. Here is a suggested “rule of thumb” on tipping amounts, but please consider that the cook’s tip may need to be higher, per hunter, if there are only a few hunters in camp.

Hunt Price Gratuity Amount Per Hunter
Up to $1,500 $200-$300 (Guide) $50 - $75 (Cook)
$1,500 - $3,000 $300-$400 (Guide) $75 - $100 (Cook)
$3,000 - $5,000 $400-$500 (Guide) $100 - $125 (Cook)
$5,000+ 10%-12% Hunt (Guide) $125 - $150 (Cook)

Hunt Exclusions: Miscellaneous items not provided with WSI hunt packages include hunting license, taxidermy, shipping of capes/antlers, airport shuttles, and alcoholic beverages. Some of these services or amenities MAY be provided for an additional fee.


https://wildlifesystems.com/all-prices.html


I got an email from them about an hour ago, I am on their email group.

Prices are ok, but not sure if I would hunt with them or not.

If I enquirer about a hunt and get this, they will never see me hunting with them.

Exactly!

This is nothing more than a politically correct letter, stating that the Outfitter does not pay his staff enough!

Jason,

I think you are right. I had not thought of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Jason,

I think you are right. I had not thought of that.

BWW,

I just noticed your new tag line. Welcome back to the USA.

Guys,

I don't know if I have a solid feeling about whether publishing a tipping guideline is appropriate or not but I can tell you hunters do want to know what amount is appropriate for a tip. If there is one question a novice safari hunter will ask it will be what a normal tip is.

In the example BBW posted I was interested to see that as the hunts got more expensive so did the cook's tip. If the hunts are longer I guess the cook's tip might be more but just because the hunt is more expensive? Tipping the cook is customary on NA hunts but that guideline is strange to me.

Mark

BTW some of my clients have hunted with WSI and been very happy.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't know if I have a solid feeling about whether publishing a tipping guideline is appropriate or not but I can tell you hunters do want to know what amount is appropriate for a tip. If there is one question a novice safari hunter will ask it will be what a normal tip is.

In the example BBW posted I was interested to see that as the hunts got more expensive so did the cook's tip. If the hunts are longer I guess the cook's tip might be more but just because the hunt is more expensive? Tipping the cook is customary on NA hunts but that guideline is strange to me.

Mark

BTW some of my clients have hunted with WSI and been very happy.

I don't understand this thread and you tip or you don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Been guide when I was young
I did it because it kept me in woods and I was good at it
I remember when some guides got pissy if tip wasn’t big enough and that’s stupid and moronic to me
I wouldn’t hang around them and had no respect.

2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.

Only 2.5%? Peanuts. I have 2.8%. Hope one cannot recognize it immediately

I'm guiding in South Africa, not as a ph but as a tourist guide. Sometimes clients do tip me, I always feel sort of embarrassed. I mean I'm trying to do a good job, without expecting a tip for it.

Thank you

I always tip, just don’t like unreasonable expectations and especially percentage per hunt prices

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't know if I have a solid feeling about whether publishing a tipping guideline is appropriate or not but I can tell you hunters do want to know what amount is appropriate for a tip. If there is one question a novice safari hunter will ask it will be what a normal tip is.

In the example BBW posted I was interested to see that as the hunts got more expensive so did the cook's tip. If the hunts are longer I guess the cook's tip might be more but just because the hunt is more expensive? Tipping the cook is customary on NA hunts but that guideline is strange to me.

Mark

BTW some of my clients have hunted with WSI and been very happy.

Mark,

A TIP, by definition, is by choice.

And if I do get told about it by any outfitter or professional hunter in their adverts, it raises a red flag for me.

IF asked, what I like to hear is "we do not have a mandatory tip policy. Do as you wish"

Breaking it up in a list of employees and how much each gets is juts plain ridiculous!

I do tip, probably more than others, but where I have hunted, without exception, I dealt with gentlemen who never mentioned tips.

And the staff have always worked so hard I actually felt they deserve even more than I gave them.

That way the client goes home happy, and the camp staff look forward to seeing him again.

If for any reason I felt, anywhere, that I am being pressured, by dropping hints etc, of the required tip, I would tend not tip tip at all, and never go there again.

I actually do not like it when I see advert or hunt offer here, and whoever is posting blatantly mentions tips among all the unpaid services like taxidermy etc.

Why?

Just so the client never forgets about it??

I tend to agree with Saeed. Years ago while hunting a very well known conservancy in Zimbabwe, my hunting partner's PH took him into the hunting partner's quarters near the end of the hunt, and presented him with a sheet of expected tips. There was a bit of pressure placed upon my friend to tow the tip sheet line. That soured me on tipping. Up to that time, I had been, like Saeed, extremely generous in my tipping. Now, when I hunt, be it Africa, Alaska, Mexico, the U.S. or anywhere else, I tip only if I feel that it is earned, only what I determine a reasonable tip to be, and only to those that I felt were deserving of a tip. To me, a tip is for service above and beyond what is normally expected, not for normal service that should be rendered in any event. End of story.

I still don’t understand the sliding scale on the cook’s tip, other than a longer hunt.

DCS Member: Maybe if they know that you are spending big bucks on the hunt there will be gourmet meals. . . . Agreed. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Maybe they buy better ingredients and not just microwave or MREs.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
Maybe they buy better ingredients and not just microwave or MREs.

We go on vacation to a lot of exclusive places.

Never, ever, have they mentioned tips in all our dealings.

My wife checks what is on offer, we decide who to go to, and she contacts them to work out itenaries, services food etc.

Only no class, down in the dumps outfits make a list of who to pay and how much.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I tend to agree with Saeed. Years ago while hunting a very well known conservancy in Zimbabwe, my hunting partner's PH took him into the hunting partner's quarters near the end of the hunt, and presented him with a sheet of expected tips. There was a bit of pressure placed upon my friend to tow the tip sheet line. That soured me on tipping. Up to that time, I had been, like Saeed, extremely generous in my tipping. Now, when I hunt, be it Africa, Alaska, Mexico, the U.S. or anywhere else, I tip only if I feel that it is earned, only what I determine a reasonable tip to be, and only to those that I felt were deserving of a tip. To me, a tip is for service above and beyond what is normally expected, not for normal service that should be rendered in any event. End of story.

Absolutely.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I still don’t understand the sliding scale on the cook’s tip, other than a longer hunt.

Tips in restaurant depend on total sum, not on how long did you sit there)))

I thouroughly understand that tipping should not be mandatory.

I do see some value in a guideline, though. At times, my ideas are over what is expected, rarely, it has been less.

I really detest the idea that a tip needs to be a percentage of what was charged. Then the question becomes what is the price? Daily rates? Daily rates plus trophy fees? Total overall costs?

If an outfitter says tipping is not a normal practice, then I give each person a handshake, tell them how they made my stay memorable, and if I think it pertinent I will give some small item.

If there is a whole camp, I tell staff what the camp tip is, and let the management/PH sort out how it’s given, as I never see camp managers, and would give most all the money to the trackers and skinners, and it would disrupt staff pecking orders (I recall coming in to a camp where the preceding client had played favorites and there was a lot of fighting...)

I understand the rationale for tipping, but it has gotten way out of hand in western, especially US, culture.

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I still don’t understand the sliding scale on the cook’s tip, other than a longer hunt.

Tips in restaurant depend on total sum, not on how long did you sit there)))

From
How it appeared, the tip scale was based on the price of the hunt. That being said, I don’t think the menu would be different based upon the value of the hunt in the same place.

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I still don’t understand the sliding scale on the cook’s tip, other than a longer hunt.

Tips in restaurant depend on total sum, not on how long did you sit there)))

And if the service is not up to scratch, I refuse to tip in restaurants too.

I normally write a message on the bill why I refuse to pay a so called “service” charge when the service was awful!

I actually wrote “I suggest the manager of this restaurant goes and work for McDonalds for a few years. He needs to learn what service is like!”

The restaurant manager came over to question why I refuse to pay.

He had the audacity to tell me it is “normal” charge by the restaurant and every one pays.

I told him to go and get the hotel manager, I want to inform him he should change the management of the restaurant, and he is not going to see me there again!

I know the owner of the hotel, and told him about my experience!

He hit the roof!

And the restaurant manager was replaced.

We went there a few weeks later, service was absolutely fantastic!

In a lot of cases, I think we are being asked to pay the lion's share of the camp staff's salaries via tip. Regardless of performance/level of service.

I've definitely felt pressured on tip amounts in the past. Will not re-book with those outfits.

Come to think of it, (in my experience) the outfits with the big tip sheet generally had a lower quality service among the camp staff...
Maybe because they feel entitled to a big-ass tip? Not sure.

Folks,

Personally I don't think it is wrong to let people know that a tip is customary as some folks just do not know. In general hunters want to know what the norm is. I don't initiate any discussion with clients about tipping but when tips come up what I find is my hunters want to make sure they give enough. They're very concerned with taking good care of the PH and crew. When I am asked about tipping amounts I tell the client what I think is reasonable but I also tell them that a tip is by no means compulsory and that the actual amount is completely up to them.

Again personally but I think it is inappropriate for the PH to bring up tips and tipping amounts during the safari. I think a discrete question at safari's end about a staff tip is fine though as it is something that needs to be handled.

For me I like the tipping procedure to be very low key with no ceremony if possible. I like to give the PH what I think he deserves and the crew a flat fee to be distributed by the PH or camp manager as they know the pecking order. Sometime if a staff member has been of particular service to me I will make sure he gets a little more.

Finally if your letting yourself be intimidated concerning tips that's on you because the tip for the 100th time is not compulsory in any way, shape or manor. If the PH mentions a staff riot because you did not tip enough that's on him. It is not your responsibility. When you book a safari you've hired these people to work for you. You get to make the final decisions.

I had a formal printed list of 23 people thrust in front of my face once after a total of three days of hunting and I was supposed to put an amount by each persons name. I gave the PH a rather small amount and told him to figure it out. One time a safari operator told me I could not give anything extra to the crew on the vehicle which were quite good because they got the same amount as the camp staff that frankly sucked. We argued about it but I could see since he was handling the actual money I had no choice so I gave everybody a much smaller tip. In Tanzania the safari operator told me to leave all my cash at the office as there had been some theft in camp. I did just that but the message did not filter down to the camp staff. I explained to the PH that I had been told to leave my money in Arusha and would take care of the tips with the safari operator once back in town. He obviously did not tell the crew as they all stood around with long faces as I left on the plane. That PH got a very small tip for a very long safari. It's your safari. Do as you see fit.

Mark

In Europe, or UK more so if any hunter asks about tips we say "at your discretion" and no one expects.

I've been some more more poor east European countries and they hold the hand out more but not too badly.

If I was asked on booking a hunt myself to give a certain amount of tips id look elsewhere.

P.S i sell high end custom knives on the side and once gave one as a "tip" and it didn't go down well by the facial expressions.
Knife retail value was 400gbp

Hunt was 2500GBP value in Spain and tip normally would have been 100GBP or so but thought he'd appriciate a knife. How wrong was i

quote:

Originally posted by Baker458:
In a lot of cases, I think we are being asked to pay the lion's share of the camp staff's salaries via tip. Regardless of performance/level of service.

I've definitely felt pressured on tip amounts in the past. Will not re-book with those outfits.

Come to think of it, (in my experience) the outfits with the big tip sheet generally had a lower quality service among the camp staff...
Maybe because they feel entitled to a big-ass tip? Not sure.

I have only been on two safaris; both to Zim.

First trip I asked my PH about the usual amounts for tipping. He looked embarrassed that I brought the subject up but did give me some idea of what is generally done for the staff and told me that it was still really up to me. It was helpful to get an idea of the usual and customary amounts.

Second trip I gave a total that I was comfortable with to the PH and he divided among the staff. Better.

I share the concern about the staff not being paid an appropriate amount by the safari firms. I would like to see what kind of margins the firms are making on the hunts sold and overall annual returns. There are a lot of guys crying poor over there who carry expensive English double rifles! Don't get me wrong: they have as much right as anybody to make money. I just don't like the idea that the client's daily rate isn't covering the lion's share of staff wages because we are expected to make it up in tips. Seems like paying twice for the same performance.

Before my first trip to Zim in 2011 I had the good fortune to be "pre-briefed"by a father and son team who had been to Africa at least three times. One (of many) pieces of advice they gave me that I used on that trip and the subsequent three trips to Africa was to put names on envelopes and hand it to the staff, trackers, driver, etc. at the end of the safari, as there were legitimate reports of unscrupulous PH's keeping the tip money for themselves, or the PH/Operator "skimming" off the top. I actually saw that happen on a bird shooting trip to Bolivia several years ago. Our group of 8 was departing and we saw the outfitter approach each bird boy with his hand out and they had to hand over some of their cash tip to him. Disgusting.

Regarding the comment about PH's "carrying expensive doubles". On my four trips I had three different PH's. Three of the four had "expensive doubles". I also visited all three of their homes (not intentionally, it just worked out in my travels) and saw how they were living. Not high by any U.S. standards. When I was in professional practice I had "expensive" surgical equipment that I purchased/owned. My livelihood depended on it. On my third hunt we were charged by a dagga boy that we had tracked for several hours, and if my PH had not had his "expensive double" someone, maybe me, could have gotten killed. Needless to say, I was damn glad that he was carrying it and knew how to use it. I suggest that most, if not all, of the PH's that carry "expensive doubles" look at them as their life insurance policy, and a life insurance policy on their trackers and clients as well. Just my $.02.

I really believe that you have to determine, on your own, who and what you are going to tip. As an example, I hunted Zimbabwe in late August of 2017. I was initially scheduled to hunt with one of my original Zimbabwe PHs. When I arrived, I was told by him that he was going to be busy with his management duties of the large citrus estate that he was also now managing, but that he had lined up another Zim PH to hunt with me. The hunt went well, for the most part. At the end of the hunt, I chose to consult with the original PH about tips, as there was quite a large staff of people working. He gave me the requested advice, which I decided to follow. This advice also included the tip to the PH that he had contracted with for my hunt. I placed them all in separate white envelopes which I normally do. Some of the staff and the contracted PH chose to open their envelopes in my presence. In the end, I could tell that nearly everyone, including the contracted PH, was unhappy with their tip, and the tips were at the suggestion of the original PH/Camp Manager who I had hunted with and tipped many times-including his staff who were still working with him at that time. No more will I rely on sheets, advice, etc. I will decide what I feel to be reasonable and who has earned it.

At one point I was chastised because the tip was a pair of Swarovski 10x42 SLC binoculars. He was using some Steiners that the rubber armor had been worn through. Someone here said thy was terrible, as cash is king. The PH obviously liked the binos and wanted a new pair. The USA cash value of them was more than whatever monetary tip he would’ve received, not to mention what they may have cost in RSA (assuming things were and are still more expensive there). The staff tip was given to the lodge owner and have no idea what happened after.

The prior safari was with the owner/PH. He and my father didn’t get along at all. It was an auction hunt, but we added more animals (which I think all should on auction hunts, or something extra for 100% donations). However, we did tip the cook, his girlfriend, and the tracker and skinner. Knives and other trinkets requested by the outfitter were also gratis.

That being said, tip suggestions were not brought up until the conclusion of each safari. The outfitter/PH that didn’t get a tip did say one of the staff didn’t pull his weight and didn’t deserve the same as the one who was on the spot and worked hard.

In Argentina, there are a lot of things the bird boys do that you don’t see. They aren’t just there to reload your gun and count your birds. They are out in the field before sun up and out there cleaning up the field until sundown. Then they are cleaning the shotguns and preparing for the next day while hunters are comfortably in the lodge. Once again, tips are appreciated but not expected.

Most NA big game hunting has been guided by a landowner and I do feel an owner is different than a contracted guide. Those that have been guided by a “contractor” have sucked as they checked the property just before the hunt started.