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.458"/ 405-gr Remington Bullet:
quote:
Originally posted by .458 Only:
Rifle: Ruger 77 (22"), .458 Win Mag
Brass: Remington
Powder: 70 grains of H4895
Primer: not recorded but expect it was Fed 215
Date: 9/28/93 (3 weeks later)
Temp: 50*F/time: 6pm to 7:15pm
COL: +/- 3.34"
3 shots = 1924,1935,1942 into a SINGLE HOLE at 100 yards, 0.25" center to center.
Corrected to MV = 1948 fps/4213 ft-lbs

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


I sure like that load, Bob, buy a donkey !
Give me an 8-pound jug of H4895 and I can get by
for quite a while with any bullet from 400-gr to 550-gr in the .458 TRUMP.
From 60 % LR with filler to drop-tubed and compressed.
Good thermal stability and reliable lot-to-lot.
H4895 was the first military surplus powder that Hodgdon started selling to the public it was, started the empire of Hodgdon.

I need to finish up Hannay's .458 WM 400-gr Speer low-ladder with H4895,
then do H4895 extended ladders with ye olde Hornady RNSP in .458 WM 3.340" and .458 TRUMP 3.6"
so as to rub the SAAMI .458 Lott's nose in the results.
Where have all the Lottites gone ?
patriot
.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Hannay,

I only have one full box of those Speer 400-grainers left, plus 12 loose ones, 62 total.
I hate to encourage that habit by giving them to you without a source for future fixes.
Next time I go out I will shoot some and see how many are left.
Buy a donkey for pointing out a nice tree in the forest of .458 WM loads.
beer
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Here is the Monster buck Jerry has been chasing, caught on a trail cam, image viewed on a 'puter and snapped with a cell phone:



Hopefully he will get it with his .458 TRUMP if he can hold off on the hogs with Colt .45 until after Monster is down, next time.

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Nice scenery. Where's Monster ?



Jerry does have a visual arts flare with guns and knives, akin to cowboy poetry:



Winchester 1886 in .45-70 Govt., same rifle that perforated a 55-gallon steel drum full of water,
Texas Heart Shot style stem to stern.
He did it with cast bullet and BP in the style of Selous's .461 Gibbs, right near 570 grains chugging along.

Must be Jerry has not finished getting his .458 TRUMP loads finalized.
The possibilities are endless.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Recycled image now labeled .458 TRUMP:



Note 543-gr FNGC gets close to 2300 fps with AA-2460.
Should be easy to get the similar length 500-gr TBSH up to 2300 fps, and beyond, in the .458 TRUMP.
Cheaper 500-grain practice bullets too. tu2

patriot
.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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.458 Win Mag accuracy can speak for itself: The following loads were shot on August 11 and 16 of 1993. I was then 58 years in this world and could shoot, no doubt, quite a bit better than now at 85 (in one week from today).

Also in those days (August, 1993) I was developing loads in new rifles (not necessarily all new CARTRIDGES!) for a .25-06, 300 Win Mag, .356 Winchester (my son's rifle), .223 Rem and .375 H&H, in addition to the Ruger 77 in .458 Win Mag. So I was doing a LOT of handloading, shooting and testing loads.

August 11, 1993
Temp: 78*F (The powders of the time were not very good in dealing with extreme changes of temps. Though both H4895 and RL-15 were not bad in that regard, yet they both lost some velocity from August 11 (78*F) to August 16 (70*F). Rl-15 lost an average of 8 fps with a change of 8*F, and I upped the moose hunting load of H4895 from 69 to 70 grains which gave 52 fps LESS average MV at 50*F than 69 grains at 78*F. Of course, that was the "old" military surplus 4895. But accuracy never "fell apart" on any of those loads and dates.

Rifle: Ruger 77
Brass: Rem
Primer: 215 Fed.
Bullet: 500gr Hornady RN
Powder: 69 grains H4895; corrected MV = 1994 fps (average of 3 shots)
Powder: 72 grains RL-15; corrected MV = 1982 fps (average of 3 shots)

Those 6 shots made a single group of 1.375"

What do you think -- did such experiences enhance my confidence in and love for the .458 Winchester Magnum?

August 16, 1993
Temp: 70*F
Rifle: Ruger 77
Brass: Rem
Primer: 215 Fed.
Bullet: 500gr Hornady RN
Powder: 72 grains RL-15; corrected MV = 1974 fps (average of 3 shots at 200 yards) Those 3 went into a group of 1.625" at 200 yards.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 766 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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RIP, big buck pictured is the reason for the '86 pic of me leaving the hell hole, winds switched, I left my oak and cedar brush ground blind, other pic is result of a buddy questioning me via text message on what I was hunting that buck with, I put my belt on the ground with rifle and 5 inch Bagwell Damascus skinner, sent the tree climbing vagina a pic ; ] he had no further questions that day.

The pig is a result of the changing winds, went to the creek bottom, pig came in hard at 4 o'clock pulled the old Colt from the crossdraw and shot the thing in the head at less than 10 yards, cast lead 265gr bullet over a max dose of 3F OE black at 976 fps exited 120lb female black Russian between the milk nozzles at back legs, less than 10 yards is plenty close enough on the ground, I didn't want to shoot in there for fear of spooking the buck, but wasn't willing to let her get any closer, pretty sure she could have given me a pretty good whoopin before I got her shot off me had I spooked her into attacking.

All things 45 and 458 cal, black powder and smokeless for "The Mission"
 
Posts: 789 | Registered: 18 February 2009Reply With Quote
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As a fellow ground hunter Jerry, I had to chuckle at the label you stuck on your buddy.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2025 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jerry mcdonald:
... other pic is result of a buddy questioning me via text message on what I was hunting that buck with,
I put my belt on the ground with rifle and 5 inch Bagwell Damascus skinner,
sent the tree climbing vagina a pic ; ] he had no further questions that day.

quote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
As a fellow ground hunter Jerry, I had to chuckle at the label you stuck on your buddy.

I laughed too, even though I do use a tree stand now and then.
I certainly prefer ground huntin', ground blind or creeping about still hunting, glassing, etc.
Tree-stand hunting is too much like fishing with a rod&reel when no snagging with big treble hook is allowed,
and no dynamite allowed.

For those who do not cast bullets at home,
here is one that is interesting,
Missouri Bullets' .459"/ 405-gr Hi-Tek coated, hardcast BHN 18:



https://missouribullet.com/index.php

#1 Buffalo - Hi-Tek
.459 Diameter
405 Grain RNFP
Brinell 18
For Large Buffalo
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating
Price per box of 200
Price: $46.00

23 cents per bullet before S&H which ain't bad.
I think MidwayUSA was charging $59/200 and "out of stock/no backorder" for these. Eeker

Most of my .458 WM rifles are .459" grooved.
But I do have one that is true .458"-grooved.
1800 fps with this 405-grainer might be fun in that one.

Don't even have to powder-coat paint them, Hi-Tek coating serving same functions.

But I am wondering if I could do a coat of Harbor Freight Red over the Hi-Tek, followed by a coat of Eastwood Ford Light Blue,
size to .461" for shooting in .459"-grooved barrels ?

Bullet color might come out a nice shade of lavender.
Simply MAHVELOUS !
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Bob,
You and Hannay combined have me thinking I should shoot about 12 bullets with the 400-grain Speer and H4895
3 shots each with 60.0 grains, with and without filler, then 61.0 grains with and without filler.
That will be the .458 WM short COL buck bustin' brush load.

Then, do that H4895 ladder with 500-gr Hornady RNSP in the .458 TRUMP.
I will start at 60.0 grains without filler and work up to drop-tubed and compressed for +2300 fps or bust.

Then the shoot-off with 500-gr RNSP and the ball powders lately discussed,
finishing up with the premium 501-grain TBSH Sledge Hammer and choice loads so as to conserve expensive bullets.
patriot
.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Fury01 and RIP, it's all good, I've had a hell of a fun time with those guys over the years, 'any' hunting with firearm or bow, fishing, etc, etc is more than fine by me.

My 458 TRUMP should be in from JES any day, just loaded a new Duracell in the chrono this morning, ready to burn some powder looking for an accurate 2300+ fps with the TBSH solids!
 
Posts: 789 | Registered: 18 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Super-duper Jerry !
Learning of your results will undoubtedly enlighten all.
Just to prove I sit in trees begrudgingly:



No, this is not a water buffalo hypnotized by Crocodile Dundee trick:





Guy on left above is the front-end loader driver getting ready to hoist a tasty 1800-lb Bubalis bubalis bull for processing.

Below, I sprained right knee (healed fine) chasing after a bigger pig, but during that chase found this little one hiding amongst boulders and fallen timber.
The sausage and pork chops were yummy.

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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LOL, Good Stuff RIP, not a damn thing wrong with grocery shopping with a rifle, beats the hades out of pushing a cart around a store following our chickens! ; ]

I went to a 1200 acre farm in Tennessee and shot some hogs with Sharps rifles a couple times, best grocery shopping trip I've ever been on.

The 458 TRUMP is already on the list for my next trip to the RSA, a hefty deposit was paid last January, the kung fu flu 86't that deal!
 
Posts: 789 | Registered: 18 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Check the 550 grain cast in this thread. Just below the 458 thread at the moment. That is one powerful looking bullet.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/7681064362
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Sydney Australia | Registered: 14 September 2015Reply With Quote
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this is the complete bullet
it feed with no problem fast slow in my winchester safari express in 458. I just received it
the only game it took is from my hunting body with is ruger no 1
with a charge of H4198 at 1650 fps
it the moose on the rear left ham and existed just back of the opposite shoulder. range was about 170 yards. moose was running away DRT
 
Posts: 111 | Location: canada | Registered: 26 January 2020Reply With Quote
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OK !
Nice bullet !
quote:
Originally posted by canuck4570:
I will be shooting this cast bullet its a 550 gr. cast bullet wfn
at the present I shoot it with IMR 3031 64gr. and it gives 2024 fps average
would like between 1800 and 1900 but keep the load density touching the bottom of the bullet like the 3031 I get good and constant velocity
what powder should I use

What is your 550-gr bullet length and COL you like to load it ?

I have a 543-gr SAECO FNGC that is 1.345" long.
At 3.340" COL, 69.0 grains of AA-2460 is about a 94% Net Fill/LR with loosely poured powder.
That gives a bit more than 2100 fps with my bullet.

If 64 grains of IMR-3031 is about 100% Net Fill and a bit under 2100 fps in your load,
start trying slower powders that have about same density,
if you want a slower load at 100 % Net Fill/LR.
Mike's recommendation of 64 grains of IMR-4064 is a good one, with a quaint old powder. Wink
That ought to give you about 100 fps slower than same charge of IMR-3031,
and about same net fill.

64 grains of H4895 is about 97 % fill with my bullet and COL 3.340".
I would start with 60 grains of H4895 and work up with a 550-grainer.
H4895 is great for reduced loads and maximal loads with or without filler on the low end,
as low as 60 % of the max load with that bullet.

You don't want to start too high and overshoot the desired lower velocity than your current load.
AND, you might find another accuracy node for your rifle with a greater assortment of velocities. tu2

I am going to add a 543-grainer at 3.340" COL to my trials of H4895:
400- and 543-grainers at short COL/.458 WM
and 500-grainers at long COL/.458 TRUMP.
All starting with 60.0 grains charge of H4895 working up to maximal or bust, either my shoulder or the brass, whichever protests first.
H4895 is a most useful, thermally stable powder in the .458 WM or .458 TRUMP, either loose or compressed.

Gonna do that right after I finish cleaning my AR-15 peashooter, gotta stay ready for civil war and thus hopefully avoid it.
patriot
.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
I don’t think Rip will take bait best offered to bottom feeders mr sambarman. He normally feeds in fast water.

Fury01,
That is prudent guidance for future action.
Can't fix stupid.


Insult noted, Ron, but I wonder if you could actually explain what your evidence of the widespread fraud you mention is?

The old-and-respectable (non-Murdoch) news sources I read/listen to say no significant evidence was presented at any of the court cases that failed.
 
Posts: 4194 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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The future is here.
sambarman338 is on ignore, so as not to waste my time.
Those with eyes that see and ears that hear and a brain that comprehends know that the 2020 USA election was fraudulent as hell, more than sufficient to change the outcome.
That lets out all the maggots with no eyes, ears, or sufficient brain, not to mention their lack of spine.
Blind, deaf and stupid is not a good combination.
patriot
.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:

The old-and-respectable (non-Murdoch) news sources I read/listen to


Warning warning warning ....... extreme lefty on board
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Sydney Australia | Registered: 14 September 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:

The old-and-respectable (non-Murdoch) news sources I read/listen to


Warning warning warning ....... extreme lefty on board

yuck
Wasn't lost on me !
It was the last straw.
If my own Mother spewed villainy like him, I would attend no more afternoon teas with her,
and I would be one sorry SOB for sure.

Political leftism is a form of brain damage caused by maggot infestation or smoking dope heavily and chronically.
It is not strictly transmissible as an infectious disease, but requires some birth defect or physical injury to allow it to take hold.
You know, like a hole in the head or excessive THC exposure in utero.
patriot
.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection & Truly Realized Ultimately Magnificent President
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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JES rebore was out for delivery last Wed, usps draggin' their sacks as usual didn't get it delivered, I missed delivery Thurs because I didn't know I'd have to sign for it, BIG C Fri, this morning at 0630 I helped them complete the process by knocking on the PO back door, Postmaster opened door, went and got my box, I signed, thanked him and left.

Bare rebore weighs 9lbs on the nose, maybe 10lbs loaded with 4 rounds on board, waiting for it to warm a bit, fire lapping will commence after while, 24 degrees with an 8mph North wind wont make for much fun.
 
Posts: 789 | Registered: 18 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Merry Christmas and HAPPY NEW YEAR wishes from Jerry
for THE MISSION:







Jerry has been busy as Santa on Christmas Eve.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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In summary, starting load for .458 TRUMP with 500-gr TBSH at 3.375" COL is a load that ought to work in any SAAMI .458 WM with usual 3.4" magazine box:
Chronograph velocity is 2185 fps from 24" barrel,
a rebore and rechambering by JES of M70 Classic stainless barrel, installed on Winchester M70 Classic long action in custom tiger-striped walnut, ebony/horn tip.
Fire-lapping by Jerry.
Rifle weight is 9.0 pounds, iron-sighted and unloaded.
4 rounds of ammo will add not quite 0.5 pound.



BIG CHRISTMAS PRESENT FROM JERRY.
Many buy a donkeys from all missionaries to Jerry.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Maximum tried by Jerry at 3.545" COL, beats the Federal factory-claimed 2300 fps with .458 Lott:



 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Jerry got his knighthood from Santa Claus for bringing such presents as the above to THE MISSION today.
Santa was able to head out early on his vacation.
Henceforth it is Sir Jerry, Knight of the Four Five Eight:



.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I shot the rest of my Speer 400 grain bullets. Not enough to make any statistically significant conclusions, but so far it does not appear that using a filler has made a significant improvement. I had smaller group sizes and more uniform velocities without the filler. A final summary of measured velocities for 11 of the 14 shots:


(* = didn't get a reading)

For now, I’m moving on to some tests with the Lehigh Defense 380 gr flat nose. I loaded three rounds to check “Criterion 1” – will it feed with the large meplat? That seems to be no problem. With three rounds loaded to COAL of 3.26”,and 65 gr of H4895 (no filler) I got a 1.54” group and velocities of 2005, 2028, 2059 FPS.
Has anyone used this bullet in the 458 Win Mag?



 
Posts: 517 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 27 November 2010Reply With Quote
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Picture of Todd Williams
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
I don’t think Rip will take bait best offered to bottom feeders mr sambarman. He normally feeds in fast water.

Fury01,
That is prudent guidance for future action.
Can't fix stupid.


Insult noted, Ron, but I wonder if you could actually explain what your evidence of the widespread fraud you mention is?

The old-and-respectable (non-Murdoch) news sources I read/listen to say no significant evidence was presented at any of the court cases that failed.


I think we've identified the problem.

I'm amazed in this day and age of readily accessed information that so many still haven't realized the level of manipulation the main stream media has and continues to perpetuate on the populace.

For some, I guess it's just too easy to be lazy about not looking into the info they are presented with. Much easier to just lap up the slop the farmer puts into the trough and be happy ... right up to the day you're marched into the slaughter house.

2020
 
Posts: 7832 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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Hannay,
No experience with that Lehigh 380-grainer,
but it should be an accurate thumper.
Homemade cast 400-ish grainers can be quite pleasing too.

Your 60.0-gr charge with filler is way faster than same charge without filler, more than expected.

I am wondering if the remnant cloud of filler wad trailing a bullet could be picked up by Lab Radar
and confuse it.
See wad closer than bullet, see bullet again after wad vanishes,
the bullet has instantaneously made up some distance ... ?

Seems the more air space a load has then the more it can benefit from a filler.
Maybe the H4895 at 60 grains with Speer 400-grainer is better with no filler.
Okey-dokey, that is H4895 afterall, recommended for low-fill ignition, the slowest reliably igniting reduced load powder.
Increase the charge and no need for filler for sure. tu2

Here is a similar situation:
.458 WM/TRUMP with AA-2230 and 475-gr hardcast-gaschecked boolit, 24"-barreled Ruger # 1,
W-W brass, WLRM primer, 3.450" LongCOL:

NO FILLER and 65.0 grains AA-2230: 2029, 1975, 2071 average = 2025 fps

WITH FILLER and 65.0 grains AA-2230: 2090, 2127, 2109 average = 2109 fps

Then worked up with NO FILLER and best load was 69.0 grains AA-2230: 2171, 2175, 2175 average = 2173 fps

The 65.0-gr. charge was about 85% LR/net fill.
The 69.0-gr. charge was about 90% LR/net fill.

So I now forget the filler with 85% and up (except those pet loads where a filler is known to help) and try for 90% or higher with extruded powders.
Buy a donkey, Hannay.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
I don’t think Rip will take bait best offered to bottom feeders mr sambarman. He normally feeds in fast water.

Fury01,
That is prudent guidance for future action.
Can't fix stupid.


Insult noted, Ron, but I wonder if you could actually explain what your evidence of the widespread fraud you mention is?

The old-and-respectable (non-Murdoch) news sources I read/listen to say no significant evidence was presented at any of the court cases that failed.


I think we've identified the problem.

I'm amazed in this day and age of readily accessed information that so many still haven't realized the level of manipulation the main stream media has and continues to perpetuate on the populace.

For some, I guess it's just too easy to be lazy about not looking into the info they are presented with. Much easier to just lap up the slop the farmer puts into the trough and be happy ... right up to the day you're marched into the slaughter house.

2020


For sure, Todd.
If Joe Biden got 50 million legal votes, the low IQ vote, then Trump got 100 million legal votes, the high IQ vote.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Since Sir Jerry has conquered the high-velocity 500-grainer with a full case of AA-2460 in the .458 TRUMP,
I desire to plumb the low velocity end of H4895 with 400-grainer, 500-grainer and 600-grainer.
From 60.0 grains to 70.0 grains with all of those,
and no filler.

A happy God Wink is that all of these old, obsolete bullets can be seated to a depth of ~0.350" and wasted with glee:

1. The 400-grain Speer on its second cannelure for about 3.125" COL.

2. The 500-gr Hornady RNSN with an extra cannelure added for about 3.500" COL

3. The 600-grain Barnes Original with cannelure added for about 3.700" COL

And, maybe not obsolete, but good for wasting:

4. The 500-grain TSX crimped on the 5th cannelure for about 3.780" or more, a few thou off touching throat.

If 0.350" is enough neck grip length in the .500 Jeffery, why not in the SAAMI .458 WM and wildcat .458 TRUMP ?

That just happens to be what works well in the .458 TRUMP with 500-grain TBSH at 3.550" COL.
That beats the .458 Lott as proven by Sir Jerry.

Then do a plot of results with 400-, 500-, and 600-grain bullet velocities on the Y axis with grains of H4895 on the X axis, three distinct lines.
This might be useful for interpolating fair to middlin' velocities for any weight bullet from 400-600 grains.
A reduced load guide.

The middlin'-to-high-velocity load guide with H4895 and 400-grain and lighter bullets would be interesting, in the Chineses curse kind of way.
Work downward with 87.0 to 70.0 grains of H4895 with 400-grain to 250-grain bullets.
Seating depth as little as 0.230" might be used for such a varmint load interpolator.
H4198 might be a better basis for that.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Cool Fun stuff RIP, Thanks for posting the pics and adding knowledge to the list of possibilities with the 458 TRUMP, the pic of the stand of powder in the case is the 81gr charge of 2460, I bet the 500gr TBSH is barely touching the powder crimped in the last driving band groove, the reason for the photo is 2331 fps had already been reached, I was going to shoot that load for accuracy, my goal was 2325 fps and 6000 ft lbs on the 458 case with 500 grain bullets, we made that ; ]

Please note the primer on the 83 grain charge sitting on the chrono for 2355 fps, the cases fell from the rifle, I didn't mic case heads or belts yesterday, by the way they extracted, primer condition, no ejector slot smears on the casehead, and they way they shot, [nice triangle group] I have no reason to believe I was over pressuring things [except my shoulder], with the firelapping, chrono-ing and shooting 3 for groups I had about had it, 27 rounds of 458 TRUMP is a pretty good workout.

LOL on being Knighted by Santa RIP too, my Wife is getting a kick out of us, she's down in the den doe deer trotting on about mile 6 by now I guess.
 
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BTW, that rifle has a 14 inch LOP, if it didn't fit me so well, it'd be hell on wheels with 500gr at 2350 at only 9lbs, it's very shootable, staying on the stock and in the rifle after the shot, running the bolt while burning a hole through the sights is a natural fit, it's going to be a great ALL game hunting rifle.

450gr TSX's at 2450 fps would provide easy 300+ yard hunting with a scope, the large plains game, elk, moose, big bear, "none" could buck that load out to a long 300.
 
Posts: 789 | Registered: 18 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Thanks Jerry and RIP for all that good stuff!

I gotta go now and find a fresh can of A2460. I dumped my old one that dates to at least 2005.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 766 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Cold Trigger Finger
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
I don’t think Rip will take bait best offered to bottom feeders mr sambarman. He normally feeds in fast water.

Fury01,
That is prudent guidance for future action.
Can't fix stupid.


Insult noted, Ron, but I wonder if you could actually explain what your evidence of the widespread fraud you mention is?

The old-and-respectable (non-Murdoch) news sources I read/listen to say no significant evidence was presented at any of the court cases that failed.


I think we've identified the problem.

I'm amazed in this day and age of readily accessed information that so many still haven't realized the level of manipulation the main stream media has and continues to perpetuate on the populace.

For some, I guess it's just too easy to be lazy about not looking into the info they are presented with. Much easier to just lap up the slop the farmer puts into the trough and be happy ... right up to the day you're marched into the slaughter house.

2020



With some people I'm sure its just slothfullness. But I have learned that many liberals are very active go getters. Work their ads off. For them it is mostly just a sense of their own superiority. They actually think that they aren't wrong and backwards . Because They Can't be wrong. What ever foolishness their brain tells them is right. That's what they will believe and fight for. Argue for. Prove themselves to be real pieces of kaka without a care in the world of what is in reality , true ,right, correct , ect.
And unfortunately for us they are actually monsters in disguise.
No doubt there were lots of progressives that thought they were correct while they were and are currently mass murdering .
Every progressive that supports murdering innocent children will have no problem doing the same with people that are outside of the womb. Reguardless of their age.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
 
Posts: 1934 | Location: Eastern Central Alaska | Registered: 15 July 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jerry mcdonald:
Cool Fun stuff RIP, Thanks for posting the pics and adding knowledge to the list of possibilities with the 458 TRUMP, the pic of the stand of powder in the case is the 81gr charge of 2460, I bet the 500gr TBSH is barely touching the powder crimped in the last driving band groove, the reason for the photo is 2331 fps had already been reached, I was going to shoot that load for accuracy, my goal was 2325 fps and 6000 ft lbs on the 458 case with 500 grain bullets, we made that ; ]



Please note the primer on the 83 grain charge sitting on the chrono for 2355 fps, the cases fell from the rifle, I didn't mic case heads or belts yesterday, by the way they extracted, primer condition, no ejector slot smears on the casehead, and they way they shot, [nice triangle group] I have no reason to believe I was over pressuring things [except my shoulder], with the firelapping, chrono-ing and shooting 3 for groups I had about had it, 27 rounds of 458 TRUMP is a pretty good workout.



LOL on being Knighted by Santa RIP too, my Wife is getting a kick out of us, she's down in the den doe deer trotting on about mile 6 by now I guess.

Good woman to put up with being the wife of a Knight of the Four Five Eight, Sir Jerry !
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Cool to have a +6000 ft-lbs load at just where the powder stops shaking around in the loaded case.

I bet Sir Jerry did not even use a drop tube.
83.0 grains would be non-compressed if loaded with a drop tube.
Not necessary with 81.0 grains non-compressed. tu2

In a 24-7/8" CZ barrel, 83.0 grains of AA-2230 gave 2342 fps MV with the 500-gr TSX loaded at very close to same seating depth as Sir Jerry's TBSH.

In a 25" Shilen stainless barrel, 78.0 grains of AA-2460 gave 2265 fps instrumental with 543-gr FNGC with similar seating depth as Sir Jerry's TBSH.
Allowing BC of 0.3 for the similarly shaped and heavier bullet (compared to TBSH 0.328),
the 543-grainer corrects to 2279 fps MV:
2265 fps KE = 6185 ft-lbs
2279 fps KE = 6262 ft-lbs

Considering Sir Jerry's 24" JES barrel being compared to 25" Shilen barrel,
It appears he has won the KE championship.
Knight, champion of the joust, etc., get it ?

But stopping with a submaximal load that is 6100 ft-lbs is a good thing.

This 0.350" seating depth thing is a good thing too.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jerry mcdonald:
BTW, that rifle has a 14 inch LOP, if it didn't fit me so well, it'd be hell on wheels with 500gr at 2350 at only 9lbs, it's very shootable, staying on the stock and in the rifle after the shot, running the bolt while burning a hole through the sights is a natural fit, it's going to be a great ALL game hunting rifle.

AMEN.

450gr TSX's at 2450 fps would provide easy 300+ yard hunting with a scope, the large plains game, elk, moose, big bear, "none" could buck that load out to a long 300.


84.0 grains of AA-2230 gave a 5-yard vel. of 2457 fps to the 450-gr TSX in my 25" Shilen barrel
That may be corrected to MV of 2469 fps.
2457 fps KE = 6032 ft-lbs
2469 fps KE = 6091 ft-lbs

But that was with a COL of 3.680", seated on the 4th/last cannelure, seating depth 0.336".
That is a long-nosed bullet, same nose as with 500-gr TSX.
450-gr TSX BOL was 1.516" for the lot I was using.

Seating 450-gr TSX on 3rd cannelure will give a COL of 3.562" and seating depth of 0.454".
I need to try something like that, with both the more compact AA-2230 and the AA-2460.
Fine tuning of COL and seating depth needed!

When he gets rested up maybe Sir Jerry will beat me to it. Wink

AA-2460 gives higher velocity with lower pressure for a SAAMI .458 WM 500-gr Hornady RNSP, but requires minimal compression of the AA-2460 to do so.
Hence with the compression of ball powder taboo, AA-2230 is the choice in the SAAMI .458 WM.

The .458 TRUMP choice powder might be AA-2460.

2451 fps MV, KE = 6002 ft-lbs with 450-grain TSX will be plenty. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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