And I have been fortunate to test a number of really good rifles from makers like D'Arcy Echols, Lon Paul and Joe Smithson and was given permission to use them as my own, not to baby them, and offer any suggestions I thought would be beneficial.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
... when I tested the 404 and 458 I was using factory ammo in both. Norma 400 gr Swifts in the 404 and Hornady 500 gr InnerBonds in the 458.

Thanks for the penetration tested ammo specs Phil.
I will look'em up.

Last mystery to be solved: Does the barrel band on Old Ugly attach to a recoil lug ?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
... when I tested the 404 and 458 I was using factory ammo in both. Norma 400 gr Swifts in the 404 and Hornady 500 gr InnerBonds in the 458.

Thanks for the penetration tested ammo specs Phil.
I will look'em up.

Last mystery to be solved: Does the barrel band on Old Ugly attach to a recoil lug ?

Yes, that was its purpose. The first Interarms MKX 458's has no extra lug so I decided to build one by drilling a hole in a piece of 3/16" steel plate & filing and polishing it to fit. And then pinning it to the barrel

That old Hornady 500-gr Interbond RNSP factory load was from when they were advertised at 2260 fps in the .458 WM.
The old Norma factory load for the 400-gr Swift A-Frame probably did not get to 2300 fps.
Their current 450-grain 404 Jeffery "PH" loads are about 2150 fps.

The .458 WM won the penetration test, and the wound volume test too, no doubt.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Looking at the picture of Phil and Old Ugly relaxing, I just want to say, Phil and I wear the same brand of hunting pants.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Looking at the picture of Phil and Old Ugly relaxing, I just want to say, Phil and I wear the same brand of hunting pants.

Well, that was a double celebrity endorsement of those pants then.
How'bout these short pants ?



Be ready for all seasons, and do as the Romans do when in Rome.
If it gets chilly, wear short pants over long pants.
Olive drab shorts over khaki tan long pants creates a camo effect to match Old Ugly's paint job.
Make sure your shorts are baggy enough to be comfortable over the long pants.

If a person is man or woman enough to handle a .410/ 400-grainer at 2150 fps from their DGR and deems it a sufficient minimum for safety,
are they not able to also handle a .458/ 500-grainer at 2150 fps for a greater margin of safety ?

Over the years, Hornady has advertised the .458 Lott at up to 2300 fps with 500-grainer, allowing 3.6" COL and 62,500 psi MAP.

Over the years, Hornady has advertised the .458 WM at up to 2260 fps with 500-grainer, allowing it only 3.34" COL and 60,000 psi MAP.

Hornady redesigned the 500-gr RNSP and RN FMJ into the flat-meplat DGX and DGS 500-grainers with less projection ahead of the cannelure.
This was done to favor the .458 Lott with its more limited nose projection capabilities.
With these new bullets crimped on the factory cannelure, the .458 WM is slighted to even shorter COL.
But it is still advertised at 2140 fps with 500-grainer.
Allow the .458 WM a 3.6" COL and 62,500 psi MAP and it becomes the .458 TRUMP, capable of running circles around the .458 Lott.
It handles the .458 WM SAAMI-limited loads perfectly of course, that is how it is chambered.
Tailor those ballistics into a longer COL and pressures are lower.
Circa 60,000 psi loads become circa 50,000 psi loads.
Tailor those ballistics to equal or surpass the SAAMI .458 Lott and pressures remain below 62,500 psi.
THROAT THROAT THROAT

It is as obvious as the above bullet hole in the buffalo's head which is the better cartridge: The .458 Winchester Magnum
Anything, to the contrary is mere commercialism or the pinky finger erection of a Lottite.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Jack Lott was not history's greatest smart ass:



Imgur can put The Crater here to shame, but occasionally there is something funny there.

Lottite fraud is as obvious as Dumbestcrat election fraud.
There is zero possibility that Biden was legally elected.
So nullify the minority of fraudulent Joe Biden voters, millions though they be, and Trump wins.
Joe Biden voters, both legal ones and repeat offenders and various classes of mass fraudsters, are prone to loot and riot if they don't get their way.
Dead Joe Biden voters excepted, of course.
If they start rioting and looting again
let the poetic justice of shooting begin.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

A most practical bullet:

Maybe even 3.540" COL.
That is a most practical COL for the 3.6" magazine box, as well as single-loading into shorter actions.
That is a COL that will eject single-loaded, unfired ammo from the .30-06-length .458 WM M70 Super Grade (her name is Cabela Winchester, maiden name, not rebarreled yet), Chimera Winchester-CZ and Alderella Ruger-Shilen.

Dare we say that a rifle that can be an 8.25-pound DGR or a 10.0-pound sniper is a practical rifle ?

An NECG receiver sight may be added to the rear base and used with front patridge on Marcella,
but it is heavier than this most practical of flyweight sights:



This concludes the latest episode of recycling old images which can be edited to include the designation ".458 TRUMP."


.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Lottite fraud is as obvious as Dumbestcrat election fraud.

Sounds to me, RIP, like those Democrats may be smarter than you think, being able to fiddle the election so well in so many places and in a way that no court in the land has yet laid a glove on them - in at least 34 separate cases.

No. The fraud is so obvious that it is the dumbest of dumb.
The problem is cowardice to do something about it yet.
It is not over yet.
Only two of the SCOTUS judges have shown testicular fortitude enough to take on the evil ones.
You better pray more do or the world is going to hell.
Three more who need to stop groveling and sniveling before the mob and grow a set were handpicked by Trump.

1X with 1-MOA bright dot:

From Leupold: Freedom RDS (Red Dot Sight) 1x34mm
Weighs just 7.2 ounces, a fat little optic almost as light as the 2.5x20mm Ultralight (6.5 ounces).
Meant for AR-types,
but so are the powders that are great in the .458 WM-TRUMP.
Alas, flipping 3 turrets by 90 degrees is about as smart as a Dumbestcrat.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Well, RIP, I do not know of any evidence of that having been accepted in court. What is your evidence? Trump may have seeded the Supreme Court with more Republicans but he does not own the judges and they have their own consciences to answer to.

What worries me here is that by linking the great 458 Winchester Magnum with Trump, you might be destining it to be labelled the 458 Loser.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Well, RIP, I do not know of any evidence of that having been accepted in court. What is your evidence?

I watched all of them including the state legislature hearings. The evidence and affidavits provided in some were overwhelming and illustrated by the reactions of both Reps and Senators. What is interesting and to me very revealing, is the ones with the very most impressive cases were the tossed straight out and no explanation given. Th video case was unreal. Tossed out early the same day as video being debunked. Well if that was the case for the video there is no way they were finding out in that times. They would not answer any questions and had note technical help.

It is really very simple. The left have a strong and very recent track record of riots and a love to burn things down. Remember Portland, Oregon. The same happens in Australia although not as bad. Someone from the left can talk or organise same sex marriage meetings/addresses at universities and no problem. The right do the same and the police have to be called. Nigel Farage came to Australia to do talks and after the first one they had to be cancelled. Canadian right wing Lauren Southern the same deal. Of curse the bloke who really sends the left wild is Milo Yiannopoulos and since he is a queer. Maybe he only poses as a queer to stir the left up but the fact is his stuff had to be cancelled. Pauling Hanson has had it in the past.

Thus judges and state legislatures want nothing to do with the election.

Yes the fraud is obvious and the evidence plenty public and sworn testimony. The fact is that the left has successfully created their own versions of right and wrong thus nothing to do with ousting mr trump is “wrong.”
You can hear the foundation cracking.
I do see quite a parallel with this and Rips documenting the myths lies just plain ignorant rambling that was used to diminish the 458wm in the public’s eyes, then taking fact based testing supported evidence and laying it all out alongside letting the mighty 458 say “I’m your huckleberry.” We wait for a person of courage be a RIP to stir our nation to save itself once more.

The latest report on my preliminary investigations of trying to make use of the 400 gr Speer flat nose bullet in the new-to-me 458 Win Mag Browning Safari. Again, these experiments are being done under the constraints of having very few bullets, so I'm trying to make the most of what I've got. I certainly I don’t have enough data to draw statistically valid conclusions!

First, the setup this afternoon, with temperature in the high 40’s (about the same as previous tests). I added a new “LabRadar rail” (a length of treated deck board that allows me to clamp the LabRadar to the bench without a tripod; I’m using a “UTEBIT C Clamp” to attach the LabRadar unit to the “rail”.



The UTEBIT C Clamp looks like:


I tried a piece of ½” foam backer rod (~0.4” long) on top of 61.5 gr of H4895. This filled the space between the powder and the bullet when it was only slightly compressed. A 2nd piece wanted to pop out the top, so I decided to just try one piece and not compress it as much as RIP suggested. (Perhaps the reason for the results below!)

The three shots had velocities of 2013, 1778, 1992 FPS for an average of 1928 FPS. So, actually more spread than I got without the foam backer rod. I guess I’ll have to try compressing it more.



Group size: I hesitate to draw any conclusions (due to the added factor of the shooter’s abilities, wind, how solidly the scope is attached, etc.) but for what it’s worth, 3-shot center-to-center group sizes at 50-yards are:

• 60 gr: 0.56”
  
• 61.5 gr with foam backer rod: 1.44”
  
• 65 gr: 1.75”

All groups have very little vertical dispersion; it’s mostly horizontal.

Your velocity with 70 grains of H4895 is what I use to get with 70 grains of IMR 3031 and 22" M70 Super Grade barrel. Actually I got right on 2100 f/s and right on 2000 f/s with 70 grains of IMR 4064.

This is a FWIW information:

I've found RL-15 to be very consistent (several trials over a couple of years) behind the 405gr Remington. That's 75 grains that motivates the 405gr to 2086 fps average corrected to the muzzle. COL is 3.25 - 3.26". It's crimped into the bottom cannelure, about 0.25" into the case and has consistent MOA accuracy, or better. For that load there's no need for a filler. My goal is to test that same load behind the 400gr Hawk, 400gr Barnes Buster, 400gr Barnes SP and 400gr Speer to see what the results might be in MV and accuracy. That's a project for next April - May, God willing. I'd also like to try 73 grains of the same powder that should put matters in the 2000 fps range. The cases will be Hornady and WLRM primers.

I mention all that because of a general wish to get the 400 Speer to an MV of not more than 2000 fps. That's doable from about 72 grains RL-15. On the other hand, I also want to try about 75 grains of RL-17 under those same bullets in the same case with the same primer. That should give around 1700 - 1800 fps. 75 grains of RL-22 gave an average of about 1570 fps from a 465 grain hardcast. It wasn't tested for accuracy as I was testing for bullet seating depth.

In other words, I'm now thinking that around 75 grains of a slower stick powder might work quite well for 400gr projectiles @ around 1700 to 2000 fps without the use of a filler. And H4895 isn't that powder. It's quite a bit faster than RL-15 in that application. For example: 74 grains of H4895 (brand from Australia) under the 405 Remington gave about 200 fps more speed at the muzzle than 75 grains RL-15. Thirty years ago there was little difference between RL-15 and H4895, Two grains less of H4895 gave identical results as RL-15 in my Ruger 77, .458 Win Mag.

The mentioned recent results were from my 24" Ruger #1.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Here's an interesting tidbit from a 1978 publication: RIFLE GUIDE by R.A. Steindler, a Stoeger publication:

At the end of the book are tables (Table J) comparing U.S. and European cartridges: The very last listed is the .458 Win Mag.

510 gr. , 77.8 gr. BL-C(2) at 2117 fps and 43,800 psi (really cup). Source is Hodgdon.

That's all that was provided on the .458 Win Mag - no barrel length, case brand or primer.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Mike McGuire,

Thanks for taking your leftist countryman to task.
He definitely needs to work on getting some common sense.

Fury01,

You get it. Well said.

Big buy a donkey to both of you fine, intelligent missionaries.


A former .458 WM now a .458 Lott that wants to be turned into a .458 TRUMP, Ms. Warthog Whitworth:



There's plenty of knoxform here for setting back and re-chambering with a SAAMI .458 WM reamer,
if THE GUNSMITH will consider it:







Some multi-colored Krylon spray paint on stock and metal will go a long way towards the "Ugly Girl" look.

Hannay,

You have a great rifle there, Ron Thomson's MAHOHBOH ("Great Killer of Elephants") rifle.

Very puzzling results with your latest load. You need to chronograph the 60.0 grain load without filler and with filler, and use two of those 0.4" tall foam wads,
compressed when you seat the bullet.
You still have only one reading on the 60.0 grain charge that was so accurate.
Gotta be systematic and work steadily from low to high.
Do as I say, not as I did in starting with 87 grains of H4895 with the 400-gr Woodleigh.
At least I worked down systematically,
just have not gotten down to 60 grains yet.

I will test that 60.0 grain H4895 load myself, with and without filler, weather and other distractions permitting.

It is EXTREMEly cool to have a powder such as H4895 EXTREME
with excellent thermal stability which can be used for reduced loads with 400-grain Speer at 60% LR
yet is also outstanding for top speed and accuracy with 400-grainer at 110% compressed after drop-tube filling.

Phil Shoemaker's avatar all blowed up:

Bob,

Buy a donkey for the load data.
The more the merrier here at THE MISSION.

I got out my old file on the .458 WM dating back to March 1988 when I was still in Alaska.

Ms. Warthog Whitworth was a .458 WM then.
She did not get rechambered to .458 Lott until 1993. I do not remember getting drunk and taking her to the gunsmith in Eagle River, AK,
but having your .458 WM made into a .458 Lott is sort of like getting a bad tattoo.

Anyway, with that Whitworth in March 1988, at 38 degrees F, was the first time I ever chronographed handloads for a .458 WM.
I am thinking I must have been inspired by Phil Shoemaker's article in the Sep-Oct 1985 RIFLE #101, "Alaska Guide Builds a Modern Backup Rifle."

24" barrel then, before KDF installed.
500-gr Hornady RNSP
Winchester brass case
F-215 primer
COL < 3.340" crimped on Hornady cannelure
IMR-3031 powder: 71.0 grains >>> 2155 fps ave for 3 shots (2149, 2166, 2149) instrumental, 5-yard velocity
100-yard 3-shot group 1.25" on centers.

This compares favorably with the 21" velocity of 2040 fps that Phil got with 70.0 grains IMR-3031:
He used 1 grain less powder and 3 inches less barrel.
Ms. Warthog Whitworth does not have a slow barrel.
She will make a good .458 TRUMP:




.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Not quite a pristine .458 TRUMP with virgin SAAMI .458 WM chamber,
but it preserves a wildcat .458 Lott Like Jack Built in 1971, long before the abomination of the SAAMI .458 Lott, the Johnnie-come-lately of 2002.
It will still hold a magazine full of 3 Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer .458 TRUMP loads, and fire them with little loss of velocity.
Yet, the 2.8" brass will be fine for loading with 250-grain Monoflex bullets, and birdshot loads,
yes even a little better than the .458 TRUMP with lightest, short-bullet loads and rat loads.



I acknowledge my past sin and ask for forgiveness,
promising to never again rechamber a .458 WM to .458 Lott.
This lets THE GUNSMITH off the hook,
except for installing a new safety, a routine thing, with no sweating over timing the barrel sights after setting back and rechambering.
I can do the Picatinny flashlight holder myself,
and I am pretty good with a can of spray paint.
Though I will have to study Phil's technique just a little,
not a critical item.
Phil varies the camo pattern occasionally, and that is part of Old Ugly's charm.
Hard to go wrong with the paint job.

Now a bit of redeeming social value.
Can't afford a Smithson Mauser .458 WM ?
Got a burning desire to own a .458 TRUMP capable of thrashing the SAAMI .458 Lott with 400-grain and heavier bullets ?
Here is just the ticket from Champlin's, a Bob Emmons .375 Weatherby Magnum built on an FN Mauser,
a nice pattern for a .458 TRUMP,
might even be possible to rebore to .458:









http://www.champlinarms.com/De...GunID=3533&StyleID=2


.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

That's a good looking 375 Wby Ron. Looking very pinky finger like it does I am surprised it is not a 375 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Well, RIP, I do not know of any evidence of that having been accepted in court. What is your evidence?

I watched all of them including the state legislature hearings. The evidence and affidavits provided in some were overwhelming and illustrated by the reactions of both Reps and Senators. What is interesting and to me very revealing, is the ones with the very most impressive cases were the tossed straight out and no explanation given. Th video case was unreal. Tossed out early the same day as video being debunked. Well if that was the case for the video there is no way they were finding out in that times. They would not answer any questions and had note technical help.

It is really very simple. The left have a strong and very recent track record of riots and a love to burn things down. Remember Portland, Oregon. The same happens in Australia although not as bad. Someone from the left can talk or organise same sex marriage meetings/addresses at universities and no problem. The right do the same and the police have to be called. Nigel Farage came to Australia to do talks and after the first one they had to be cancelled. Canadian right wing Lauren Southern the same deal. Of curse the bloke who really sends the left wild is Milo Yiannopoulos and since he is a queer. Maybe he only poses as a queer to stir the left up but the fact is his stuff had to be cancelled. Pauling Hanson has had it in the past.

Thus judges and state legislatures want nothing to do with the election.

If those cases were tossed out unjustly, Mike, their sponsors would have had excellent arguments for taking them to a higher court. The one I know of that got to the Supreme Court was chucked out there, too. In that case brought by Texas I believe the rejection was a matter of ultra vires.

Unless American courts work much differently to those here, cases are not rejected because the court is not interested but because no legally acceptable argument has been brought forward.

Is there corruption in the election process over there? Well, states disenfranchising poor minorities by insisting on voters having driver's licences or street addresses is dodgy IMHO but this is the great American system and RIP would not want any change to that.

Have you ever heard of any serious claims of fraud against the Australian Electoral Commission?

RIP, am I right in thinking the only answer you see to all this is another civil war?

I don’t think Rip will take bait best offered to bottom feeders mr sambarman. He normally feeds in fast water.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Well, RIP, I do not know of any evidence of that having been accepted in court. What is your evidence?

I watched all of them including the state legislature hearings. The evidence and affidavits provided in some were overwhelming and illustrated by the reactions of both Reps and Senators. What is interesting and to me very revealing, is the ones with the very most impressive cases were the tossed straight out and no explanation given. Th video case was unreal. Tossed out early the same day as video being debunked. Well if that was the case for the video there is no way they were finding out in that times. They would not answer any questions and had note technical help.

It is really very simple. The left have a strong and very recent track record of riots and a love to burn things down. Remember Portland, Oregon. The same happens in Australia although not as bad. Someone from the left can talk or organise same sex marriage meetings/addresses at universities and no problem. The right do the same and the police have to be called. Nigel Farage came to Australia to do talks and after the first one they had to be cancelled. Canadian right wing Lauren Southern the same deal. Of curse the bloke who really sends the left wild is Milo Yiannopoulos and since he is a queer. Maybe he only poses as a queer to stir the left up but the fact is his stuff had to be cancelled. Pauling Hanson has had it in the past.

Thus judges and state legislatures want nothing to do with the election.

If those cases were tossed out unjustly, Mike, their sponsors would have had excellent arguments for taking them to a higher court. The one I know of that got to the Supreme Court was chucked out there, too. In that case brought by Texas I believe the rejection was a matter of ultra vires.

Unless American courts work much differently to those here, cases are not rejected because the court is not interested but because no legally acceptable argument has been brought forward.

Is there corruption in the election process over there? Well, states disenfranchising poor minorities by insisting on voters having driver's licences or street addresses is dodgy IMHO but this is the great American system and RIP would not want any change to that.

Have you ever heard of any serious claims of fraud against the Australian Electoral Commission?

RIP, am I right in thinking the only answer you see to all this is another civil war?

You need to watch state legislature hearings. They go for a few hours and some a couple of days. Youtube deleted a lot of them but some would be still there. Watching state legislature hearings you actually get to see everything. There were both Republican and Democrat Reps and Senators at them. You will see at some of them what is presented is so clear cut that even the Democrat Reps and Senators. One Democrat, I forget here name but she was one of those women trying to look like a man, even had the crew cut and if in Australia she would have joined The Greens. Yet even she was won over. BUT, the whole legislature tossed them out.

The one with the video, CCTV cameras had been left on, is unreal. They toss it out on the same day and said the video was debunked. How they did that in such short time and with no technical help, amazing!!! No questions were answered.

Again, watch (if you can find them) state legislature hearings. There might still be highlights of some. After you have actually seen the stuff THEN come back and tell us what you think. Maybe you could contact Newsmax or OANews and they could send you copies.

I've been busy boys!

Its summer here in Australia and nearly everyone I know stops hunting during the summer months... but not me!

I love hunting summer

As Sambar deer are my main quarry I thought I'd better hit the reloading bench to load a summer's worth of ammo.
And when I hunt the thicker stuff it's the .458 that accompanies me.

And here's my favourite .458 bullet, the 550gn Woodleigh.
I use Woodleigh's because they're readily available, reasonably priced, they work and I like to support an Aussie product.

I hear on other forums that the 550gn Woodleigh is too big for the 'little' .458WM case - but I'm getting 2080fps which is awfully close to 2100fps!
Shows what they know! And I'm loading to the cannelure (3.340") so take that all you .458 haters!

Will keep you all posted on how my summer hunting exploits go

... although I don't expect to recover many bullets

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:
I've been busy boys!

Its summer here in Australia and nearly everyone I know stops hunting during the summer months... but not me!

That's Victoria . Shooting in summer in NSW and QLD is real common. Much nicer for spotlight shooting and good time for the property owners

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
I don’t think Rip will take bait best offered to bottom feeders mr sambarman. He normally feeds in fast water.

Fury01,
That is prudent guidance for future action.
Can't fix stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
That's a good looking 375 Wby Ron. Looking very pinky finger like it does I am surprised it is not a 375 H&H.

Mike,
Amazingly pleasant of you to be so accepting of a .375 Wby in the guise of a .375 H&H fifth digit erector.
With one step up in sporter barrel contour it would make a swell .458 TRUMP.

badboymelvin,

Buy a donkey for supporting THE MISSION.

Woodleigh manual top MV loads with 550-gr RNSN (24" barrel):

SAAMI .458 WM: 2110 fps with 73.0 gr Hodgdon BENCHMARK aka ADI Bench Mark 2

SAAMI .458 Lott: 2115 fps with 81.0 gr Reloder 15

Big Nan and Old Ugly had a baby named Big Ugly.


.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Well, states disenfranchising poor minorities by insisting on voters having driver's licences or street addresses is dodgy IMHO but this is the great American system and RIP would not want any change to that.

Correction: (1) States will issue photo ID's for any and all, regardless of driving skills, and generic addresses are available for homeless. Many routine items in society require government photo IDs. (2) The background problem is that there are approximately 20 million non-citizen, undocumented (illegal) aliens in the country who are not supposed to register to vote or to vote. The estimate is that 5-8% respond to an enticement: "register and vote for us, and we will grant you citizenship." That is approximately 1 to 1.6 million.

Now paths to citizenship are great, but they are not a part of elections and voting rights.

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
This is a FWIW information:

I've found RL-15 to be very consistent (several trials over a couple of years) behind the 405gr Remington. That's 75 grains that motivates the 405gr to 2086 fps average corrected to the muzzle. COL is 3.25 - 3.26". It's crimped into the bottom cannelure, about 0.25" into the case and has consistent MOA accuracy, or better. For that load there's no need for a filler. My goal is to test that same load behind the 400gr Hawk, 400gr Barnes Buster, 400gr Barnes SP and 400gr Speer to see what the results might be in MV and accuracy. That's a project for next April - May, God willing. I'd also like to try 73 grains of the same powder that should put matters in the 2000 fps range. The cases will be Hornady and WLRM primers.

I mention all that because of a general wish to get the 400 Speer to an MV of not more than 2000 fps. That's doable from about 72 grains RL-15. On the other hand, I also want to try about 75 grains of RL-17 under those same bullets in the same case with the same primer. That should give around 1700 - 1800 fps. 75 grains of RL-22 gave an average of about 1570 fps from a 465 grain hardcast. It wasn't tested for accuracy as I was testing for bullet seating depth.

In other words, I'm now thinking that around 75 grains of a slower stick powder might work quite well for 400gr projectiles @ around 1700 to 2000 fps without the use of a filler. And H4895 isn't that powder. It's quite a bit faster than RL-15 in that application. For example: 74 grains of H4895 (brand from Australia) under the 405 Remington gave about 200 fps more speed at the muzzle than 75 grains RL-15. Thirty years ago there was little difference between RL-15 and H4895, Two grains less of H4895 gave identical results as RL-15 in my Ruger 77, .458 Win Mag.

The mentioned recent results were from my 24" Ruger #1.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Thanks for that. I look forward to your test results this spring.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Hannay,

You have a great rifle there, Ron Thomson's MAHOHBOH ("Great Killer of Elephants") rifle.

Very puzzling results with your latest load. You need to chronograph the 60.0 grain load without filler and with filler, and use two of those 0.4" tall foam wads,
compressed when you seat the bullet.
You still have only one reading on the 60.0 grain charge that was so accurate.
Gotta be systematic and work steadily from low to high.
Do as I say, not as I did in starting with 87 grains of H4895 with the 400-gr Woodleigh.
At least I worked down systematically,
just have not gotten down to 60 grains yet.

I will test that 60.0 grain H4895 load myself, with and without filler, weather and other distractions permitting.

It is EXTREMEly cool to have a powder such as H4895 EXTREME
with excellent thermal stability which can be used for reduced loads with 400-grain Speer at 60% LR
yet is also outstanding for top speed and accuracy with 400-grainer at 110% compressed after drop-tube filling.

Rip,
I agree completely with taking a more systematic approach. Unfortunately, my original supply of 14(!) Speer bullets is nearly exhausted and I haven't found any more available online.

In fact, I haven't found much similar at all, excepting the PRVI Partizan bullets at Graf's which went out of stock before I ordered any! (I should've been faster!)

I just ordered some of the Lehigh Defense 380 grain flat nose because ... they were in stock. First thing will be to see if they feed or not with such a large meplat. If they do, with 50 bullets, it may be possible to make a more systematic investigation.

A couple more tidbits for those interested in both accuracy and a mild 500gr load (Hornady RN)

Rifle: Ruger 77 (22"); .458 Win Mag
Brass: Remington
Powder: 72 grains of RL-15
Primer: Fed. 215
Date: 8/16/93
Temp: 70*F
COL @ +/- 3.34"

First 3 sighters at 100 yards; last 3 at 200 yards into 1.625"

Instrumental at 5 yards:

1948,1948,1957,1967,1949,1964 (Add 14 to each for correction to MV)

*********************************

Second load:

Rifle: Ruger 77 (22"), .458 Win Mag
Brass: Remington
Powder: 70 grains of H4895
Primer: not recorded but expect it was Fed 215
Date: 9/28/93 (3 weeks later)
Temp: 50*F/time: 6pm to 7:15pm
COL: +/- 3.34"

3 shots = 1924,1935,1942 into a SINGLE HOLE at 100 yards, 0.25" center to center.

Corrected to MV = 1948 fps/4213 ft-lbs

I made up 15 of this load for backup on a moose hunt south of North Bay (the official dividing line between Northern and Southern Ontario). We "ran into" a wicked wind and rain storm that brought down trees, so the .458 was mostly toted. Ranges were mostly limited to less than 100 yards. Didn't get a chance on a moose as they were smarter than we in holding up wherever they were.

Just thinking these might be useful for someone who would like to use their .458 Win Mag in relatively close quarters on hogs, bear, elk, moose, etc. Recoil was quite mild at about 48 ft-lbs from the approximate 9.75 lb Ruger.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca