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Stuart has made the big time with an ad in Safari magazine, and wasn't that a sweet 500 Jeffery he donated to SCI. Anybody know what it brought at auction? Good to know our deposits are going to such a good cause as SCI conservation programs.  | ||
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The peanut gallery has spoken! edit: The "Peanut Gallery" was 22WRF. I see that he has deleted his inane comment to make it look as if I am the "Peanut Gallery." 22WRF, the multiple-handle poster now seems to be scurrying about trying to clean up his appearance here. BTW, 22WRF also stated that Stuart Satterlee is a "nice guy." | |||
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Stuart Satterlee is not a "nice guy." | |||
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You make it sound like Stu has taken everyone's money and not delivered anything. I beg to differ. https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=411105227#411105227 | |||
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Hmmmmm......14 Months to build a Mauser type banger - action only. Sounds like a week if making a one of a kind. An hour or less for semi-production. Exactly how many parts are there in one of those beasties?? 15 maybe 20?? Please......... The vegatable gallery has spoken. | |||
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That thread shows a single promotional rifle Satterlee is building for someone with whom he has a business relationship. I'm not certain that it proves the point you're trying to make. Several people here started ordering Satterlee's actions and paying deposits in early 2006 (I'm one of them). To the best of my knowledge, not one of them has received anything but loads of bullshit in return. The promise-by date on my action was September 2006. In November 2006, Satterlee sent me an email saying he had "20 actions 80% complete". Some months later I was told that my action was finished except for the bottom metal. Those are just two examples of the many bald-faced lies I've heard from Satterlee over the last 18 months. To say we should just ask for a refund on our deposits is nuts. I didn't make a no-interest business loan, I paid a hefty deposit on an action. I want the action I paid for. 22WRF, I'm glad you got your two safeties. They were built and paid for with the deposits from RIP, myself and several others who are left holding the bag. If you want to sing praises for Satterlee because he delivered on two safeties for you that's fine but I'd appreciate it if you not tell the rest of us with real money at stake how to handle our affairs. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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If he cannot show me a completed action by 19 Feb 2008, yes, I would like a refund. I do not want to be like others here, being strung along for 2, 3, 4 years. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ForrestB: [ Several people here started ordering Satterlee's actions and paying deposits in early 2006 (I'm one of them). To the best of my knowledge, not one of them has received anything but loads of bullshit in return. QUOTE] My action is also way overdue.....It's hard to build a rifle on promises. If you really want to build a successful business do it on your reputation (word of mouth) and repeat clientale. Donating a rifle to SCI so you can get a booth in the corner won't take you very far. | |||
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The deposit is chump change relative to the aggravation of being lied to for almost two years. I'm not seeking a legal remedy - the internet remedy will work just fine. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Unfortunately, a similar thread regarding Waffenfabrik Hein occurred a few months back. As a gun nut like every other member on this forum, I foam at the mouth over the photos of Satterlee actions. Perhaps as a one-man-show he is currently overwhelmed with his workload. Whatever the underlying reasons may be, I hope he is able to live up to his end of the bargain he willingly entered into with your guys. It would be a shame to see this situation spell the end of another highly talented gunmaker. | |||
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As a one-man-show Satterlee determines his own workload. If he can't deliver on actions that have been on order for 2 years or more, why is he at SCI taking new deposits and orders? Satterlee's pretty pictures conned me and several others into writing him checks. He's used that money to do everything except deliver on what he's promised us. The SCI fiasco was the final straw for me. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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What is really sad is you go to his sight and he list most of his action as in-stock and available for Quick delivery. African Magnum In Stock and available for quick delivery.* >With dovetailed & TIG welded bolt handle $3000.00 375 Double Square Bridge Mauser In Stock and available for quick delivery.* >With Talley integral bases >With integral bolt handle $4000.00 >With dovetailed & TIG welded bolt handle $3000.00 Intermediate Length Square Bridge Mauser (TITANIUM) In Stock and available for quick delivery.* $6500.00 Intermediate Length Square Bridge Mauser (Chromoly) In Stock and available for quick delivery.* $3000.00 As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I am glad my money is not tied up there. I hope it all works out for you guys! | |||
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This situation is a shame. I'd like nothing better than to see a ready supply of newly made quality 98 actions. Interestingly, I don't think he's ever made any Ti actions. I'm pretty sure they were all leftovers from when he bought up the inventory at Taconic. I hope this gets resolved before any more people feel they were hoodwinked. | |||
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Comrades At Arms: Thanks for coming forward. Let us keep this Satterlee advertisement at the top until we get something from Stuart besides BS. | |||
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Well, I have no dog in this fight... The ATF is responsible for regulating firearms commerce. While this appears to be a purley commercial matter, I have contacted the ATF on two different occasions to place a phone call to gunsmiths who were holding my money, my firearms, and not returning my calls. Interestingly enough...I immediatley had my money and guns returned. U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives St. Paul Field Division 30 East Seventh Street Suite 1900 St. Paul, Minnesota 55101 (651) 726-0200 Fax  651) 726-0201Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have offered to send him barrels and reamers if he would show me an action. Luckily he has only my money. | |||
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If you can actually buy one, how much is a completed magnum big bore Saterlee rifle optioned out to the "hilt??" | |||
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Ok, Hold it just a minute. let's get a few facts straight on My SCI donation rifle. I built that action in the spring of 2000 I barreled it and it was stocked in 03. Fact is none of you here at A/R funded that rifle, that was my rifle not yours so back off. I personally invite those who are willing to come and visit and see the parts for your actions currently in production. This is not vaporware it is real. I do not have the luxury of making an action that does not work as other US makers of sqaure bridge magnum actions. It would be faster for me to pass that buck onto the smith, but I'm not going to. I truly apologize about the time it is taking. I have not run off on some hunt that you all are paying for either. I've got to get back out to the machine shop and keep it going. That's the only way I know of to get you your actions. Sitting here and talking about it will not make it happen, I can gaurantee that. I'm here, drop by or Call, but lets keep it short as I have no time for idle chit chat. Stuart | |||
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That's all well and good, but if you took deposits two years ago and haven't delivered any actions to the folks above, something is seriously wrong with your production model. And continuing to take orders and deposits while not actually producing actions does not sound ethical. Why not declare a moratorium on taking deposits until you've worked through orders placed in 2006 and early 2007? Take orders in the meanwhile with the clear understanding that once you have cleared the backlogged 2006 orders, deposits will be due. Holding peoples' deposits for two years with no end in sight strikes me as a poor way to do business. The frustration your customers are experiencing will cause more bad word of mouth than any bounce obtained by your generous donation. Some of us remember Art Alphin and the late Robert Bastow and the trouble folks had getting either guns or money back. George  | |||
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I still believe You.. AK | |||
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Do gunsmithing schools offer business classes? ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Fine stuff there George, thank you!  Stuart, Our deposits going to SCI is a joke, and it is petty of you not to appreciate the humor. O.K., maybe not so funny, but at least as funny as the jokes you have told so many here: Delivery dates, then new delivery dates. 6 months  14 months  2 years  3 years  4 years  We trusted you. It is time for you to call me. You have the telephone number. | |||
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Comrades At Arms: Thanks for coming forward. Let us keep this Satterlee advertisement at the top until we get something from Stuart besides BS. | |||
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Stuart has made the big time with an ad in Safari magazine, and wasn't that a sweet 500 Jeffery he donated to SCI. Anybody know what it brought at auction? Good to know our deposits are going to such a good cause as SCI conservation programs. | |||
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Did Stuart offer to return any deposits to anyone? | |||
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No, just like medical schools do not offer business classes. Waiting at the doctor's office is a bit like this except you aren't sick while you are waiting. | |||
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PS- buy an Empire Rifle. Perfectly built and will get to you on time.... Has a Mauser action as well... | |||
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Good luck to all of you. I went through this with a taxidermist, but at least got the 25% finished mount back and took it to a reliable taxidermist who finished it perfectly for a lot less than the "star" taxidermist. | |||
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And here we were accusing you of actually producing an action in the last few years. You have my personal apology on this count.
What about the 20 actions that were supposedly "80% complete" 14 months ago? Where are they today? I've saved all our correspondence if you need a refresher.
This statement is so ridiculous that it must have been meant as a joke. Satterlee, the problem is that you don't actually make anything. It would have been faster if you had just passed a chunk of steel on to my gunsmith.
Instead of hollow apologies, how about an honest assessment of where everyone's project stands and a realistic timeframe for delivery?
Everytime I've called or emailed all I received in return was idle chit chat or lies. Never once did I put you on the spot or coerce you into telling me an outright lie. You did all that on your own. If you're truly interested in keeping things short and to the point, tell me when I will receive the action I ordered in March of 2006. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Stuart, Interesting post. Except you did not address any issues regrading delivery dates of any of your customers actions. You could actually resolve all of this by taking 15 minutes and posting the oldest five (undelivered) orders you have and when they will be shipped and then meet those deadlines. or make it easier on yourself and post the next 5 actions you will ship and the dates and then meet them. Even give yourself a cushion and add 25% on to your estimted ship date. Heck if you are worried about condidentiality I am sure you could create a simple disguised name that the owner could easily figure out what their dates is. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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[quote] "...I do not have the luxury of making an action that does not work as other US makers of square bridge magnum actions. It would be faster for me to pass that buck onto the smith, but I'm not going to..." [quote] The fact that you take such care in producing an action is much appreciated by the enthusiast customer, But I must presume,according to your action building skill knowledge claims on your website, that You should be reasonably aware of what was required in time to build an error free receiver,when you accepted customer orders&deposits. A friend and myself are still interested in your work and in having an action or two produced and to give a talented fair person fair business, but we are not much interested in delivery times that wildly flutter in the wind. It would be most interesting to know what receiver delivery time was offered to customers at SCI 2008. What about at least for starters, an encouraging photo of the "20 actions" lined up on a work bench?..even about a dozen or 1/2doz. would make some very happy!  OK heres an easy one, according to your in stock inventory, how long would it take to have an intermediate action fully preped for 7x57, to roll out the door? | |||
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Quit beating around the bush. Just ask the guy for some photo's... huh?  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Here are few photos of work.  Just going across the table, 36 standard Rh safetys, above those are the Lh charles daley safetys for the true LH bolt and 4 extra of those, 12 or so LH right hand lever models, there's some in shipping right at this time to Trigger tate and Franz Urva those are out this week. Right up the front row there's 7 Magnum recievers all machined and broached, still need to cut cams in those, I do that as I fit the bolts, it just take 20 minutes each. There's a couple titanium actions laying in there that I've fit all the parts to recently. Yes those are what was once the Taconic. The threaded billets that have the bores in them and threads c-rings lug seats in them are standing up. Some 6, 06s' 2 std mags, 2 505 .750s and 3, kurtz lenght. about 30 extractors on the end of the table along with enough cocking nuts to get 12 actions going. There's a titanium 300 WSM in the background just a day two from being finshed, recoil pad and paint the stock and it's done. That table represents on hell of an effort at this point, there are still cuts to make and some more parts to make. This is a stock of metal work that I continually push along with fitting and polish work, there's a dozen or so Titanium actions in there, a 500 Jefffery on modified legacy 98k, about 10 new old stock steel 7x57 length intermediate receivers from the Taconic project, basically mexican 98s' in 4140 Steel.A .750 Satterlee mag, a 300 win on an enfield a standard Mauser or two. There's a 6.5x284 B/A titanium it's PVD Coated laying the there next to it's Basner stock again nearly finished, there's a nice Mauser 375 H&H mag B/A in there. again I'm working on it as well. The primary focus of my work however is machine work on these 416 Magnum mausers, for you Forest and Mike and Josh and others. All the uncut recievers will be going thru this machine in the very near future, as in this week 06 length shorts std mags then over to the mill in the corner for some carefull indexer work, then to the shaper for lugways, 3rd lug, guide rib and cams. This machine gets it done in a big hurry in fact it gobble up this pissy little order of six 06 actions this week with realtive ease.  The Milacron contouring the rear bridge of forests Magnum action.  As I've said I'm working on your order,I very truly am. There's been a few set backs that I've dealt with like the cinncinatti dumping its'1200 dollar harddrive not once but twice along with its MAI file the first two months I had it. Then an open circut on the E-stop string that ended up being a broken wire, Then a 1700 dollar communication board that went up in smoke, I fixed it all with help over the phone, a really awesome tech. from Omaha by name of Lloyd at fuchs machinery. Now I can make this machine do what I want it to do and I have been moving quite a lot of steel for about a two months now, no breakdowns and has been going well. I'll go as fast as I can go from here to finish.Stuart | |||
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Stuart, One thing that may be missing here is that one thing these guys all have in common is that they really admire your work, as do I. In fact they cannot wait to get their actions. I would think that your last post would go aways in helping with the frustration. I have learned that stopping my work to communicate with my clients accurate expectations, is part of the job. Not a fun part, and maybe not where your gifts are, but just part of the deal. As talented as you are I have no doubt you will work through this and these same guys will be your best advertisement. Good luck. gduffey | |||
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Actually Stu, your photos do little to alleviate my concerns and in fact show me just how much I've been lied to over the past 18 months as you gave me progress reports. I'm trying to organize your photos and ramblings so that I can focus on what is important to several of us at AR with orders from early 2006: There's a bunch of Taconic parts and actions in your photos that have been finished for years. There's a bunch of safeties that were a project you started long after we gave you our deposits. My order specified a LaPour safety because you weren't even making safeties. I see a few gunsmithing projects on non-Satterlee actions and I have no clue what they represent. I see seven partially finished receivers that you say are your "priority" - but I've been hearing that for a long, long time. Frankly, I'm astounded that after 22 months this is all the progress you have to show. There are no bolts, no bottom metal, no bolt stops, and (from your description) plenty of machining left to be done. Your photos and description tell me almost nothing about the status of my project (or about the status of any individual project). I'd like an honest answer to these three simple questions: 1. What work has been done on my action? 2. What steps are left to be finished? 3. What is a realistic delivery date? ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Stuart, Here is how I see it. Give me one more "final delivery date" for the 416 Rigby Double Square Bridge action that I ordered. If that date is still acceptable to both of us, we will continue. If not, I will request my $1500 deposit back. On that delivery date (if it is still mutually acceptable to both of us) I expect to have either my action or my deposit. You can post your answer right here in black and white for everyone to see. Mike | |||
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Today I'm going to make bolts. Care to come along. It will be fun. Stuart | |||
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I got no dog in this fight, but I've watched these internet offers surface over my years on the boards, and people just keep lining up for them. caveat emptor | |||
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This is the plight of custom gun&rifle enthusiasts forever.fast reverse to 70's=clayton nelson,80's= purdey,peter chapman,etc..IF you got your order it was at least2Xs longer than promised&maybe what you ordered-maybe not.they all march to their own drummer&its not you.they all can do super stuff-if youre lucky you may get one.also,its not an investment for a quick profit because youre 2-4 yrs of no return&double your deposit in phone calls. | |||
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