I wouldn't give a shit how good the action is supposed to be! I completely agree with Forrest. Timan will be the loser, not Forrest.
Butch

I still want to see forrest's action as stated by timan completed minus the bottom metal. What happened to that picture?

quote:

I still want to see forrest's action as stated by timan completed minus the bottom metal. What happened to that picture

It existed only in his dreams.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

I've invested seven years in my attempt to build the ultimate 416; another year or two wouldn't bother me.

Forrest,

I've seen acouple of photos of your Smithson .416. It's a beautiful rifle. I'd love to hear your ideas on the ultimate 416.

cheers,
- stu

I can tolerate delays and unforeseen problems, but no way I could tolerate dishonesty. I don't have an action ordered, but I'm 100% supporting Forrest, Duane and anyone else who wants their deposit back. I'd go for interest on the deposit, if it were me.

You have to be honest and not string your clients along.

quote:

I want my deposit back plus 8% interest. That's a whole lot cheaper than you could ever borrow from the bank. You owe me $1,548 <snip>

I think you're a little off on your calculations, Forrest. Adding 8% to a loan of $1,500 equals $1,620. However, for a compound interest loan as most banks would charge, over a period of 22 months would equal $1,726.86.

-- ale

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

22wrf, now leave that horse alone.

You post on these topics as if you had a dog in this fight. Have you ever bought one of Satterllee's actions? Ever gonna, no, I didn't think so. I'm amazed at how you always come to the defense of these guys. You have gunsmith envy so bad, it shows.

Here are guys out a grand or two and you whined and moaned about Kobe alledgedly trying to buy an action from you at less than your asking price. How much was that gonna be, $100, $200?

Ya right ol'blue/WRF. How many custom guns have you had built by any top name smith. I'll bet they are just lined up waiting to spend their time talking with you, about a project that only in your dream world. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

You seem to be drawn to lier's but I understand that since you also have spred lots of lies on this and other boards. Birds of a feather flock together.

Jimmy

I have not had any total jobs done, but have had lots of little jobs done. I purchase scope rings from Tom Burgess when I visited with him. I purchased bottom metal many years ago when I visited with Ted Blackburn, and have had work done by many other people, and will continue to do so.

Once again, your post proves the point I just made. Another post referring to things you know nothing of in order to incite passions so that people will join up with you.

Look at your second to the last post here. Nothing better to say that suggesting that you were going to shove a bolt up Stuart's ass. Shows what kind of a person you are, but then most people on this board already know what kind of person you are by the way that you used to post until you got kicked off for a year or so.

quote:

Originally posted by aleaddict:

quote:

I want my deposit back plus 8% interest. That's a whole lot cheaper than you could ever borrow from the bank. You owe me $1,548 <snip>

I think you're a little off on your calculations, Forrest. Adding 8% to a loan of $1,500 equals $1,620. However, for a compound interest loan as most banks would charge, over a period of 22 months would equal $1,726.86.
-- ale

My math is right. 8% simple interest annualized for 22 months, but I'll let you solve for the correct deposit amount.

22WRF, since you insist on defending the indefensible, I'll offer you a little more information:

About a year and a half ago, M1Tanker (who was deployed in Iraq at the time) sent Satterlee payment-in-full for three M70 bolt releases. M1Tanker never got the bolt releases. M1Tanker sends Stuart a bunch of emails and makes a few calls, but still nothing - no parts, no refund, not even a response from Satterlee.

Normally, I'd let a grown man like M1Tanker fight his own battles but currently he's deployed to Iraq again and he's fighting a bigger battle right now. Here's an enlisted guy serving his country, not making a ton of money, and he gets completely ripped-off by Satterlee. There's no excuse for what Satterlee did to M1Tanker.

Tell me this, 22WRF, what kind of man does that to their customers and what kind of man defends that behavior?

ol'blue/WRF, the whole point is that satterlee is an outright lier and somewhat of a thief, until deposits have been returned, and yet you, you stupid sonofabitch want to defend his actions. I would expect nothing more from a wife beater..............

The folks here that know me, know what type person I am, nothing to hide on my side, I say it the way it is, like it or not

I dont get to get on AR much any more. Usually the internet times out before I can get it to open. But I got lucky tonight. I should clarify my situation with Mr Satterlee for you. While I was on my previous deployment around 18 months ago I contacted Mr Satterlee about having him make me 3 bolt releases for the Winchester M70 Classic. One in SS 2 in CM. He told me they would be $45 each. I sent him a USPS money order from the post office on Camp Warhorse Iraq. He notified me a couple weeks later that he received the MO and that the releases would be waiting for me when I got home in NOV. I got home and no package from Satterlee. I sent multiple messages with no reply and no answer when I tried calling. I pretty much wrote them off as my loss at that point. So there is my Satterlee situation. I wanted the parts from him because what I saw in the photos was outstanding work. But it never panned out. There you have it.

quote:

Originally posted by M1Tanker:
I dont get to get on AR much any more. Usually the internet times out before I can get it to open. But I got lucky tonight. I should clarify my situation with Mr Satterlee for you. While I was on my previous deployment around 18 months ago I contacted Mr Satterlee about having him make me 3 bolt releases for the Winchester M70 Classic. One in SS 2 in CM. He told me they would be $45 each. I sent him a USPS money order from the post office on Camp Warhorse Iraq. He notified me a couple weeks later that he received the MO and that the releases would be waiting for me when I got home in NOV. I got home and no package from Satterlee. I sent multiple messages with no reply and no answer when I tried calling. I pretty much wrote them off as my loss at that point. So there is my Satterlee situation. I wanted the parts from him because what I saw in the photos was outstanding work. But it never panned out. There you have it.

Yeah 22wrf, defend that!

M1tanker, sorry to hear about your situation. it's not like you need that sort of crap while off defending us.

22wrf, you always accuse me of referring to things I know nothing about. Well sir, it is you that does that each time you add your 2 cents to a gunsmithing discussion. You contribute nothing but opinion, most of which is so far off base as to be laughable. Then, when someone else posts something of worth you either demand pictures or references. Sheesh, give me a break.

M1, that's mail fraud I believe or something like that. I bet the USPS doesn't investigate real hard though. However I'd use the deployed soldier situation to your advantage, lots of Vets work for the USPS.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
M1, that's mail fraud I believe or something like that. I bet the USPS doesn't investigate real hard though. However I'd use the deployed soldier situation to your advantage, lots of Vets work for the USPS.

I figured we had a sealed deal and did not worry about keeping the MO stub. An expensive lesson learned for me. And it is a little difficult to do much about it from here even if I could document it. My amount is pretty small compared to what the guys dished out for the actions that never surfaced.

quote:

Originally posted by mildotfever:
ol'blue/WRF, the whole point is that satterlee is an outright lier and somewhat of a thief, until deposits have been returned, and yet you, you stupid sonofabitch want to defend his actions. I would expect nothing more from a wife beater..............

22 WRF is right up there. Anyone who would send some poor slob in his place, using his handle, to try and screw over another is the worse of the worse. I'm surprised 'ol Kevin can find the time to post anything with ambulance calls being what they are.

Stuart-

I want a full refund for the payment I sent you for a safety 11 motnhs ago-a saftey that was going to be shipped right then. I hate to air private affairs, but you have repeatedly lied to me about delivery times from Day 1, and have refused to answer my electronic queries for some time now. After you glibly said Forrest and others should come watch you make bolts, you made an enemy for life. I have been away from the net for a while and just read that. You have made an enemy for life. Well, you have probably made a lot of enemies for life with that comment, but I can only be sure of this one.

I want my damn money back and I am sick and tired of asking you why you missed naother deadline, only to get a deafening silence in return.

And you better come up with a more substantial way to appolojize to Forrest for you making such a smart ass comment to him. The custom gunmaking world is small, and you have gone a long way to ensuring that your part in that world will be a tiny one, if any at all. My jaw hit the floor when I read what you said about watching you make bolts. That was so far over the top that I just have no way to express how much it pissed me off. Forrest has been far more patient than should be required of any man. Instead of thanking him for giving you a pass, you spit in his face. And in public, no less!!!

Again, my policy is to NEVER air dirty laundry, but for 11 months you have ducked and dodged me, but seem to be reading this thread. You can have no excuses for not getting this message from me to you. I want my damn money back now. I mean it.

edited to add:

22WRF and I were posting at the same time, so I just saw his post. NOTHING is settled in the least here. Stuart has repeatedly lied to us and then pulled a disappearing act when pressed further. Why the hell should we Stuart this time he tells us the thing he has repeatedly told us in the past? Another well known gunmaker posted pictures of work in progress, only for us to learn that the work had not been done.

The evidence with Stuart is in our cancelled checks and electronic communication that we saved. If he has not screwed you in this deal, why don't you butt out and let us try to get our money back while he is finally replying to us and acknowledging that we are alive and trying to ask him questions.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
My point is why continue the banter over something that has already been settled.

Everyone else's point is why does ol'Blue continue to post opinions no one cares about? Except for the humor we derive from your goofy logic and outlook on life of course.

Howard

if you don't care about my opinions why don't you do the same thing I do with yours, which is to ignore them.

Stokeld

{"why don't you butt out"}

Why don't you put me on ignore if you don't like what I am saying. Last I heard this was an open forum. Otherwise, if you need a safety so bad, I still have one left. Loaned the other one to Terry (no questions asked). If you want to borrow this one until you get yours you can. And if you don't get yours from Timan to pay me back, then keep it as my gift. I can send it up to you tommorow and you'll have it in a day.

I have posted several times before how I put 3 people on my ignore list and it cured almost all of the squabling. And I also posted how I was clsoe to adding a 4th, as he was routinely involved in controversial threads that focus on personal attacks and have nothing to do with gunmaking.

Well, I just added a 4th person to my ignore list, and you know what?

This whole thread lokks different. I see a lot of people telling the same story (one that EXACTLY matches my life expereinces) and the personal shots at folks have miraculously dissappeared from the thread.

Stuart, in keeping on topic, I want my damn money. I have absolutely no desire for one of your safeties, or anything else you make, have made, or will ever make. I want my damn money. And this time I know you will at least read what I write to you.

I still can't get over how you talked to Forrest. The only dealings I ever want to have you from here on out is that I am going to cash the check you send me for your fantasy ssafety.

good, now I don't have to worry about Stokheld's B.S. everytime I write something he doesn't like.

If Ol'Blue writes something in the woods and nobody is around to read it is it still nonsensical?

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
... My point is why continue the banter over something that has already been settled.

NO intended,
however, Nothing is truelly settled until their money or receiver arrives as stated.

If Stuart Has had geniune problems with work management-time allocation and technical difficulties, its correctable,.. a good honest reputation is still possible,over time,and only time will tell.

If Ol'Howard writes something on AR and its stupid should anyone read it?

Woodjack

Exactly my point. But the dates have been given.

Okay....Saterlee screwed up! That part is a given. He got wound up in his own fame and couldn't deliver when the chips were called...hold 'em or fold em...he chose to "balls it out" and crapped out. He has made the public statement that he will make refunds and/or deliver...As I see it, not muchmore would drive him to the protection of bankruptcy...certainly, it would be hard to recommend the Satterlee actions (which I have never had the oppurtunity to examine)...but...there's always room for competition..Stuart: Don't try to improve the 98...every "improvement" is a step backward forget the "new safety shroud bullshit" Plenty of aftermarket products that work plumb swell!...You might consider using existing components to enhance your finished [product...thereby enhancing delivery

Duane hit the nail on the head!!

Well today is the 8th of Feb, the date the refunds are to be mailed. Those that receive their refunds in the next 4 to 6 business days please post that information. Those of us who want to keep this discussion on track and about the facts would like to see this information. Same goes if you don't get your refunds within the outer limits of that range of days.

crl

Certainly will do.

Well, since ol'blue/WRF is so understanding of satterlee's business practice's I'm sure he will pipe in and offer a refund to those waiting if it doesn't arrive on time.

How bout that ol'blue, you said you wanted an action anyway, a good chance to move right up the waiting list.

Ol'Jimmy/Mildotfever

Nowhere have I condoned a business practice where a person collects money from people and never provides the goods or refunds the money. Just because I think Stuart Saterlee is a nice guy and a brilliant machinist doesn't mean I think he should take money from people without providing what he promised. I just don't think Stuart would intentionally take money from people without eventually making good on his promises. He knows damn well he has to get this work out, and get it out soon.

The point I was trying to make was much better said by Mr. Wiebe a few posts back, which I will repeat again.

There are three glaring realities here.

1. If you want a refund you have to ask for one.

2. If you don't want a refund you have to wait until your action is completed.

3. If you push and push and push you might get something you don't want, which in this case could be a bankruptcy proceeding under the United States Code.

It would seem that numbers 1 and 2 would be much more acceptable than number 3.

So, all I was suggesting was to either ask for a refund or try and work with Stuart to get a delivery date even if you have to wait longer than you wanted to.

If people continue to publicly ridicule Mr. Satterlee they might get something they don't want.


Today was the first day for refunds. Lets see what happens.

quote:

3. If you push and push and push you might get something you don't want, which in this case could be a bankruptcy proceeding under the United States Code.

It would seem that numbers 1 and 2 would be much more acceptable than number 3.

So, all I was suggesting was to either ask for a refund or try and work with Stuart to get a delivery date even if you have to wait longer than you wanted to.

If people continue to publicly ridicule Mr. Satterlee they might get something they don't want.

The longer this goes on, the less any doubt anyone reading this thread would get of who is to blame.

And it sure is not any of the customers!

I doubt that any of us gets any pleasure out of reading this sort of thread.

"There are three glaring realities here.

1. If you want a refund you have to ask for one.

2. If you don't want a refund you have to wait until your action is completed.

3. If you push and push and push you might get something you don't want, which in this case could be a bankruptcy proceeding under the United States Code.

It would seem that numbers 1 and 2 would be much more acceptable than number 3."

There are 4 glaring realities here: the 4th is that a man is only as good as his word. This whole thing isn't about how good someone's gunsmithing is, not about who can afford to wait X months for an action to be completed, certainly not about the damn stock market...It's about a MAN'S WORD!!!

I've only had one sour deal here in the AR classfieds and it was bad for only one reason: the other party was unwilling to DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO. If your word is worthless, what good are you as a man, as a human being? Of course, some "professions" are based on twisting the truth, only giving part of the story, giving only the facts that support one point of view, all in the name of defending their "client".

In the last year, we've seen what kind of man Forrest is, and tonight, when you climb into bed safe and cozy, think about what kind of man M1 Tanker is. So Stu, and Blue, what kind of men are you?

MKane160

Just a comment for thought: Leonardo DaVinci failed to complete many projects which he undertook. Stu's work looks great. Unfortunately it seems that he, like Mr. DaVinci, is not a good business manager.

Dan your post is an insult to Leonardo Da Vinci. Your punishment is to read two or three full biographies of Da Vinci and then contrast the life and accomplishments of Da Vinci with the swindler in question.

I can't even bring myself to mention the swindler's name in the same post with Da Vinci's.

What a depressing thread.

No one likes to disappoint his clients, but come on . . . . Mr. Satterlee needs to be responsive and to tell and stay with the truth, for God's sake.

What's so hard about that? This controversy and these complaints aren't about delays.

They're about dodging and lying.

Saeed, and MKane.

Good posts, and right one.
I've read every word of every post on this thread, and have kept quiet because I have no dog in the fight.
But, as a member of the gun buying society, I do have interest in where my next custom action will be bought. I know now where it will not be bought, or should I say ordered with a deposit made with no action forthcoming to show for my deposit.

Don

Rip,

It's time to "ICE" your cake.

I offered you, your deposit back in August of 07, you said, no just keep working on it, its no big hurry, I've got plenty of guns I can shoot.

I said ok.

M1, you talked about M-70 bolt stops and thats about all the farther you got with that. No MO ever came here, I'm here all the time, if you actually called, which you did not, or if you would have left a message, which you also did not, do I would have received it and thats that.

Forest, you called in September and were wondering if Blackburn/cnc spec. could supply bottom metal? I don't know, can they? Is the phone even hooked up? In September we talked and you knew then that these actions were behind schedule. However it was your choice then to stay on for the delivery and thats a decision you made at that time. Then this whole A/R expolsion? thanks a ton.

Just a word to all the other gunsmiths out there who are running 3 and 4 years behind hurry up and get it out. Get it done. Because your day is coming and you never know who is about to go bipolar on you and trash you on the internet or someplace else.


I does not matter how good you are at your trade it a matters how it matters how fast you can, RIP IT OUT. So get it done now fast and right. machsnell!!!

I've got few cuts and bruises here but I'm a better man for it. It hurts bad to work your ass off and have them call you a liar and cheat.

eFF-IN cheap shots.

Rip is a cheap shot, he'll smack you in the head while it's turned. Just go back to the beginning of this post and look. read it.

See how brave he is. I bet his momma is proud.

Again Rip,

I offered your money back late last summer. I said would you like a refund at this point, you said, no I don't think so.

Then you changed the subject to some P.O.S. Dakota action you bought and threads where screwed up in it for your 495 Tahellangone, project.

Then you said just get it done, but there no big hurry, please explain that.

I take that as. this is not a rush.

Nice post RIP. You Diplomat!

You are a problem solver for sure. You must be very proud of yourself.

You Rip me a new asshole out here in A/R and when you do finally call me, you sound like some sheepish little boy who's sorry.

What's up with that?

There's one Goofed up little dude inside you that likes to play with guns and that is something scary.

You are nothing but a cowardly verbal sniper.

The computer is your gilly suit you cheap

shot P.O.S.

Timan