AR is full of good info. I always eventully get the info I need here. But...I liken it to cleaning a horses stall...anyone who has already is laughing.

If I haven't already posted this comment...

Head shots on Does with a varmint rifle? No problem

anything else? Not a chance.

The only reason is that when shooting for meat shooting them in the head with a varmint rifle when you are used to practicing on golf balls at the same range....

admittedly it isn't hunting, it's killing.

I do know the difference.
I just don't give a damn.

AD

Sounds like we all reach a common decision then..........right? .223 is ok for whitetails, right?

Teancum, I’m starting to see why Hot Core gets tight jawed about you. Let it die, there’s enough hard feelings over this thread as it is.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Teancum, I’m starting to see why Hot Core gets tight jawed about you. Let it die, there’s enough hard feelings over this thread as it is.

I did some experimental testing before the rain poured down today. .223Rem is adequate for prairie dogs at 150 yards and even further when I don't eff up the shot. Works plenty good on deer at bowhunting distances, but I didn't test that as it's not deer season and the only "deer" I saw today were barely glorified fawns and their momma if it had been season for eating them...

quote:

Originally posted by Precision Man:

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Teancum, I’m starting to see why Hot Core gets tight jawed about you. Let it die, there’s enough hard feelings over this thread as it is.

I did some experimental testing before the rain poured down today. .223Rem is adequate for prairie dogs at 150 yards and even further when I don't eff up the shot. Works plenty good on deer at bowhunting distances, but I didn't test that as it's not deer season and the only "deer" I saw today were barely glorified fawns and their momma if it had been season for eating them...

LOL, Where is the Energizer Bunny? We need the Energizer Bunny!

I am not going to search all of the pages of this thread and this suggestion may have already been made.

It seems to me that there should be a separate forum created by Saeed just for those who want to hash and rehash the topic of using varmint rifles for hunting big game!


This topic gets hauled out several times a year and it's an opportunity for everyone to get exercised on one side or other.


Carry on! Next topic!

I've been away several weeks due to illness and have just gotten back to the forum and we're still hashing and rehashing this topic and tempers seem to flare as usual. Seems like I haven't been gone at all. It is great to be back!

hi
i usually use my 6,5x55 or 8x57 for roe buck hunting, but i have seen many guys shooting roe buck with 222 rem in sweden with very good result. if one choose a good rifle and use permium bullets and shoot in the right spot then any deer would go down, but shooting a deer with a 300 mag in the wrong spot may only wound the poor deer. bullet placement and bullet quality and shooting ability is always the key for good hunting.
yes

Well, a roe deer weighs 50 lb so I don't think we have a real good comparison here.

We all seemed to agree that the light cartridges are not good for every condition. So its easy, you take the cartridge that gets the job done under all conditions.....a B and C rack quartering away from me is not a problem with my 7 x 65R. I don't want to know what you guys with the varmint loads would do.

>>>If a person makes a BAD SHOT CHOICE BUT KILLS THE ANIMAL HOW THE HELL ARE THEY GOING TO KNOW THEY WERE WRONG?????<<<

That is easy. The buck took 200 yards to die but it was only 50 yards to the brush. It took me 15 minutes to find it. Most city boys would have never found it.

A retard can't screw in a light bulb so apparently no one else can. Funny how idiots find solace in groups. Sheep of a feather....

One way to know who the retards are on this thread is to look for those who say that because they can screw in the light bulb apparently everyone can, along with the common theme of calling anyone who disagrees with them retards, idiots, light weights or otherwise dismissed - apparently thinking that by diminishing the opposition, his opinion is validated. This type cluster like hyenas, and call that discussion.

One defination of a retard is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results, or a specific result, especially the result of simply having a forum to call others retards based on disagrement.

Disagreement is inevitable on this subject. Why is that a problem for some? It's very common for different conclusion or opinion to be reached from almost identical facts or experience, on almost any topic.

KB

I'm not going to go back and read 8-9 pages but as for the topic, we use 63gr Sierra bullets in 223's for hunting whitetails. We use 25-06's for open fields and hardwoods. The 223 loads are used when we want to get up close and personal in gillie suits. All of those shots are broadside and selective. We have never had a deer go more than 25yds when using the 223's.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
I'm not going to go back and read 8-9 pages but as for the topic, we use 63gr Sierra bullets in 223's for hunting whitetails. We use 25-06's for open fields and hardwoods. The 223 loads are used when we want to get up close and personal in gillie suits. All of those shots are broadside and selective. We have never had a deer go more than 25yds when using the 223's.

Ed, Ed !!!!!!!

There you go, giving us examples of your EXPERIENCE instead of listening to Hot Sh#t and Kaboom's opinions. Don't you know that their opinions are sacrosanct? Shame on you!!!!

Hey Hot Sh#t here comes a flare!!!!

Teancum,
Like you don't have an opinion? If so, maybe it got lost somewhere along the line, between your snipes to others. Why don't you remind us of your opinion again, and let's see if you can state it clean, without snipes. I for one would like to see just one example of that to see if it is really possible.

Ed demonstrated very well how it's done. Can you do it?

Personally, I don't think you will get any critizism of that, unless of course your opinion is that the 223 is good for deer in all circumstances and situations and for everyone, and 200 yd head shots are ok too, in which case you are a retard.

I think you like sniping too much to give it up, and that's all you want to contribute to this thread, but if shown otherwise, I'm ok with that.

KB

quote:

The 223 loads are used when we want to get up close and personal in gillie suits. All of those shots are broadside and selective. We have never had a deer go more than 25yds when using the 223's.

We agree....a cartridge for specific situations. My 7 x 65R is good for all situations out to 300 yds. or up close and personal. Only need one gun...saves on money. Sounds better to me

If I hunted deer exclusively with a 7x65R, I can say with reasonable certainty that all the deer that I have shot, and wanted to shoot in the past, and all I hope to shoot in the future would have a higher probability of becoming wrapped packages in my freezer, compared to choosing a 223 instead. That opinion has little or nothing to do with circumstance variables, my hunting skills, shooting skills, shot placement, etc, but simply based on cartridge selection.

KB

Kaboom

My opinion is on the first page of this thread. I realize that can be hard for you to find, but it comes before page 2. Interestingly on page 4 of this thread you thanked me for my opinion. That's the one between pages 3 and 5 on the bottom of the screen. Again stop me if this is too fast for you. Obviously you don't reread any post before spreading forth your highly regarded (in you own mind) opinion.

Interesting if my opinion is not the same as your opinion I'm the retard???

As a flockshooter (self confessed) and one who states he has no EXPERIENCE using a .223 on whitetails your opinion means nothing and is immaterial to me. I don't hunt with flockshooters who spray and pray and hope that the size of their caliber will make up for their inability to hit a target as big as bushel basket. My hunting buddies are capable of shooting softball size groups at ranges from 275-350 yards. We are not shooting deer at 50 yards out of a tree stand but make shoots in the open area at ranges that would frighten you with your background in the accuracy mode you implore of "spray and pray".

To have validity in a discussion like this is to have EXPERIENCE in the topic of discussion to better answer the OP question. Opinions based on no EXPERIENCE are hollow and without merit unless you value your opinion so much more than the others who hear yours. Seems like you and Hotsh#t suffer from the same malady. Go get some experience in the thread question and then bring it back here until then you have no game!!!

Uuhh, ok. Hummm. Just like before, for lack of better words, and for the sake of not arguing, I thank you again for your opinion, for whatever that's worth.

I'm reminded of one of my favorite sayings: One has to be careful what he wishes for.

So, I'll be more careful before soliciting your opinion again.

The good thing is at least, now we know.

You have altered my awareness: Before you, I didn't know that chitheaditus could be an art form.

KB

You are so very welcome.

Before you, I didn't know that flock shooting was a practice art in the hunting of deer.

Silly me, I thought it only existed in the hunting of waterfowl and upland birds and was discouraged and looked down upon in those two circles.

Although you and I know, perhaps others should know that this flock shooting words are invented entirely by you to embellish a skewed view belonging only to you.
By not addressing it or defending myself directly doesn't in any way mean acknowledgment to your contortions.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Although you and I know, perhaps others should know that this flock shooting words are invented entirely by you to embellish a skewed view belonging only to you.
By not addressing it or defending myself directly doesn't in any way mean acknowledgment to your contortions.

KB

I understand completely and I know this is a sensitive area for you.

Best wishes for your hunting season!!!

Obviously this understanding completely business is doubtful, but there is no doubt that you know being called a flock shooter is a sensitive issue for me, otherwise you wouldn't push the issue, and that's the point. You push it only to mess with me, therefore the only way to take it is personal, since that is your only intent, and has nothing really to contribute to this thread,

I suppose, on the positive view, if my old flock shooting ways prevail, against my better behavior, at least I have a far better chance, with my 7x65R, of getting two deer or hogs with one shot, than you could hope for with your pea shooter 223.

While I'm patiently waiting for two deer, or preferably hogs, to line up just right, I'll be thinking of you.

Best wishes for your hunting season too. Hopefully you can ground sluce a flock of gophers with your mighty 223 varmit rifle, all shot in the head at 300 yds.

KB

Kaboom your old rascal,

Unfortunately here in Idaho we are only allowed one deer per season, so for me to line up 2 for head shots and thinking of you will not be possible.

Wishing your the very best in your hunting efforts.

Head shots on deer with a .223, once upon a time I may have thought of doing that, but I once saw a large doberman that a fellow shot with a .223 manage to run a couple miles with his jaw hanging down bleeding to die at his own house. If you're a good enough shot, ok, but you'd better be sure or a darn good tracker, a deer would probably go a lot further wounded than that doberman managed to. Fittingly, the man who shot the doberman, finally made the mistake of shooting a human and has been in prison many years now.

One deer? That's too bad. I checked my tags again just to be sure, and I'm allowed six here, and at least six in my old stompin ground on the farm in Georgia, and I have no idea how many in Texas, but more than I can hit.

Finding places to go, and deer are little problem. It's finding the time. Making the best of our time, perhaps is all. I can hardly find enough time to do one rifle justice. Shooting them all in one year seems less and less likely to happen, so adding a 223 to the list seems highly improbable.

Again, best wishes for you and everone's season, and hopefully you can find a place that allows plenty of deer.

KB

Can,t you guys find anything else to argue about ??????????

I am realy concerned about ethical problem of hunting deer with a 223. well deers are not humans that you can shoot them with a 223 1000s of men has been killed by 223 and fmj around the world!!! deers they have all the animal lovers gang world over to defend their right . a deer could be wounded or killed by a 3006 as well as a 223 if they are hit in the right place. the major problem is facing the animal -lovers

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Can,t you guys find anything else to argue about ??????????

GINGER!
no Marrianne

no Ginger

I guess no one is forced to read this thread, let the guys fight it out. “There’s no skin off my nose”.

I have loaded up some 223 with 53 grain Barnes X bullets, to carry in a Win Featherweight... .that I will be carrying while I am guiding for my son and a few of his teenage fellow scouts....

the 223 is mainly for something light, just in case an opportunity presents itself....

shots in there are about 75 yds to 125 at most...

the load is 25 grains of 4064...for an MV around 3000 fps...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Can,t you guys find anything else to argue about ??????????

GINGER!
no Marrianne

no Ginger

on that note.... locally here is a guy who is actually the son of Allan Hale... he was a college roommate of a guy I use to work with...
and his wife was a client of mine..

and I got to know him pretty well....

it was funny listening to him talking about being a kid when they were filming Gilligan's Island.....

while all the boys in the country were lusting over Ginger and Maryanne....Allan Hale's son was actually getting hugs and kisses from them both on a routine basis on the set...

Tina Louise use to love to rub her bosum in his face when no one was looking..

he also said Jim Backus and Bob Denver were really good guys to him also..

the lady who played Jim Backus's wife was a real bitch tho..but with Ginger and Maryanne around..who cares!

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
You may think me an idiot because I haven’t shot a deer with a 22 and voice my opinion about it. That’s OK, I don’t have to shot a deer to imagine that it’s not the best choice for an all around deer rifle

YOU CAN'T......LEGALLY...

Having lived and hunted in the great state of Colorado I know the hunters are restricted from using 223 on big game. I was pissed that some government bureaucrat thought he was more intelligent than I when it came to picking the rifle I can hunt deer with. Since moving from the state, I've whacked several deer with my 223 with none needing a second shot. My wife just shot an antelope yesterday with a 22-250 at around 250 yards. Made the heart look like hamburger. What a fantastic caliber to bring home the bacon with.


I'm not one of those who think that my government knows better than I how to run my own life. Or where spend my hard earned money.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
You may think me an idiot because I haven’t shot a deer with a 22 and voice my opinion about it. That’s OK, I don’t have to shot a deer to imagine that it’s not the best choice for an all around deer rifle

YOU CAN'T......LEGALLY...

When I lived in Colorado I used the 22 Varminter (later 22-250) legally with 70 gr. Barnes bullets. Made many fantastic one shot kills. It did not do that all the time, however. Seldom was there an adequate blood trail and some of these deer died a slow death before they were found.
The statement that a .22 caliber rifle is not the best choice for a deer rifle is absolute fact. It may do the job at times but it ain't the BEST. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The statement that a .22 caliber rifle is not the best choice for a deer rifle is absolute fact.

Confusing facts with feelings and opinions sounds like a great recipe for a liberal politician. It doesn't breathe life back into what I just ate for dinner. It does that all on it's own regardless what it was shot with.

When I lived in CO they had a caliber restriction because big brother knew best. I hope someday I will be smart enough. Or should I call my big brother and have him tell me what to do?

I suppose now somebody is gonna chime in and say women shouldn't be shooting, let alone at something on the hoof at over 200 yards.

For those that aren't used to squeezing everything that comes with a trigger, a 223 may be a much better choice than say a 7 Mag where the novice shooter would be thinking about the recoil and not the bullet placement. I'd much rather eat venison that's been lung shot with a 223 than gut shot with a flinched 7Mag.

Just because some are squeamish about using a 223, it doesn't give them license to demand others squirm as well.

Even in the perfect conditions the "ideal" cartridge will bring some unpredictable results. Just ask JFK.

roger

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The statement that a .22 caliber rifle is not the best choice for a deer rifle is absolute fact.

Confusing facts with feelings and opinions sounds like a great recipe for a liberal politician. It doesn't breathe life back into what I just ate for dinner. It does that all on it's own regardless what it was shot with.
.

It is a simple , non rambling, statement. If you chose to believe that the .223 is the best choice for a deer rifle that is your perrogative.
Went to your Web site; doesn't say much about your capability. roger

It is your simple , non rambling, statement opinion


My point being that there is no best choice and that's an absolute fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Wolfenheimer:
Head shots on deer with a .223, once upon a time I may have thought of doing that, but I once saw a large doberman that a fellow shot with a .223 manage to run a couple miles with his jaw hanging down bleeding to die at his own house.

That is true enough. Lots of folks that tried head shots have wounded deer that starved for a lack of working jaws.

At the same time lots of deer have died a slow death from forelegs shot off, gut shots and ass shots with bigger calibers. Not to mention countless poorly released arrows.

That's really a disussion about shooting skills and discipline, not caliber. Lord knows we beat that one up a lot too.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
It is your simple , non rambling, statement opinion


My point being that there is no best choice and that's an absolute fact.

Granted - about the best choice. That would be too subjective to establish. But when it comes to the worst choice, the 223 is among that group, somewhere up a line, starting perhaps with a 22LR or something in .17 caliber.

One thing for sure, a worse choice would be something declared by state law as illegal. That simplifies things for those who can't be otherwise pursuaded about bad choices. That's exactly why some states make the 223 illegal.

Bad choices are the basic reasons for any laws, because there is always a segment of the population who can't for themselves and their children decipher the difference on some matters between a bad and a good choice, so that decision has to be made for them. It's that simple, and this topic is no different.

KB