quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
lying is lying .. and you aint killed MANY thousand of deer

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
lying is lying .. and you aint killed MANY thousand of deer

I agree .. you aint killed MANY thousand of deer .. define many .. and give us 3 of the countries you killed over 500 in .. I'd like to talk to the warden on his permits and see if an out of stater can come and shoot 100 or 2 on a weekend visit ..

You see, hotsore, your story just doesn't hold water...

Maybe he can't discuss it for fear of compromising national security...

Or maybe he hunted deer like he did some other species -- a hunting practice he (Hot Core)mentioned in the reply below:

"The smallest things I've Hunted with a rifle were Chipmunk with a 22Rimfire from the hood of a Jeep while slowly easing down a creek. I'm sure we did not count them back then, because we missed a lot more than we hit."

I do believe game wardens in most locales would have a thing or 2 to say about such a practice...

Well I guess 223s will work on deer...

this thread made me think so I let Seafire jr. hunt this past weekend with a 223, loaded with 10 grains of Blue Dot and a 40 grain Ballistic Tip...

I told him shot placement was going to be important.. amazingly I watched him do a head shot on a running blacktail buck at a little over 175 yds.....

dropped said deer like a sack of potatoes..

so I guess head shots...
223s...
loaded with blue dot
and varmint bullets
is highly effective on deer...

this one entered right below the ear...

all his practicing has evidently paid off over the summer...

Great job Seafire JR

Think I'll load up some for my boy, we don't have deer close to where we live but coyote & fox season is open

what he didn't say is "on my PC, playing Deer Hunter" .. he' soo much cooler online

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Well I guess 223s will work on deer...

this thread made me think so I let Seafire jr. hunt this past weekend with a 223, loaded with 10 grains of Blue Dot and a 40 grain Ballistic Tip...

I told him shot placement was going to be important.. amazingly I watched him do a head shot on a running blacktail buck at a little over 175 yds.....

WOW! NO DOUBLE WOW and a half, no matter off hand or braced. roger

Isn't it wonderful that we live in a country where, first of all, we can own whatever kind of guns we want, and use them to hunt various game animals?

I fall in the middle on this one, and find both extremes amusing. You see guys who enjoy hunting deer and deer sized game with elephant rifles, and then there are those who want to hunt with the smallest thing that they can legally get away with. I seem to remember that .22 caliber centerfires weren't legal to deer hunt with in LA when I was young, but after checking the law, they are legal now, even if they weren't then.

A .223 will kill deer just as a .22lr will kill deer. I think we can agree however, that the .223 may not be the best all around compromise needed for any shot, at any deer, in any situation. I prefer to use more reasonable calibers and happen to think that a .243 on the low end, and 30-06 on the high end, with the 7mm08 being God's gift, is about perfect for whitetail. I think the greater burden of the deadliness of the rifle lies on the abilities and judgment of the trigger puller. There are shots that I wouldn't take with a 30-06, just as there are shots that I know a .223 would perform perfectly. More power to those who want to responsibly use lighter arms to hunt with. I am likewise amused by people who take the .375 H&H to shoot a 200 lb. animal. Whatever floats your boat, and if I wanted some extra gun handling time with a larger rifle for an upcoming African hunt or such, I would probably do the same.

I will say that I remember a guy we used to hunt with. He was a pretty small fellow, maybe 5'3" and 120 lbs. He was a deer hunting fanatic and killed quite a few really nice bucks with his .243. I don't ever remember him losing a deer, or even really having to go to great lengths to track any. He finally succumbed to the camp BS about needing more power, and bought himself a .300 Win mag, which is one of my favorite cartridges, but a bit more than is needed for whitetail IMHO. Long story short, the .300 Win mag beat the crap out of the guy, and he was scared to death of it. I witnessed him closing his eyes and turning his head before firing it while sighting it in. My dad finished sighting it in for him, as it was apparent he wasn't going to get it done. A guy like that is far better off shooting a cartridge that is on the small side, but that he is comfortable with, and can shoot well, rather than a cartridge that is more than capable, but he can't shoot for sh*t.

BTW, way to go Seafire Jr.

Way to go Seafire Jr.

I bet that was great fun to do that with your dad on ammo that he reloaded for you.

Keep up the good work out in the deer hunting field and at school.

Congrats.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Well I guess 223s will work on deer...

223, loaded with 10 grains of Blue Dot and a 40 grain Ballistic Tip

I told him shot placement was going to be important.. amazingly I watched him do a head shot on a running blacktail buck at a little over 175 yds.....

so I guess head shots...
223s...
loaded with blue dot
and varmint bullets
is highly effective on deer...

this one entered right below the ear...

It seems to me that what you said there is what 99% of others have said in one way or another. Under the right circumstances, with the right shot placment, results in spectacular kills with a 223, even with varmint bullets, going slow. No big deal. As said by others, many deer have been taken with 22LR.

However, I question the judgment of taking a shot like that with something ballistically a 22 hornet at best. Praising the kid for being out there hunting, and practicing and making a lucky shot is all great. But I really question one's ethics in leaving it at that. Does the kid realize he was just lucky?

Certainly I would pass on a shot like that - running and because of the distance, as a matter of personal restraint, unless of course I was using a real deer rifle, in which case I might consider it and it sure wouldn't be a head shot on purpose. Of course most kids don't know about that unless taught. What's happening here to hunting heritage and ethics, applauding such an act of irresopnsibility? And I don't mean on the kid's part,because he probably doesnt know better, depending on the belief of his teacher.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
What's happening here to hunting heritage and ethics, applauding such an act of irresopnsibility? And I don't mean on the kid's part,because he probably doesnt know better, depending on the belief of his teacher.

KB

You must feel pretty full of yourself to "know" what ethics to teach someone else's kids.

Typical liberal mindset.

Hotsore ..
how many of those "many thousands" of deer were head shots or with 223s? I hear lots of culling and poaching takes place with head shots .. just checking in

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
What's happening here to hunting heritage and ethics, applauding such an act of irresopnsibility? And I don't mean on the kid's part,because he probably doesnt know better, depending on the belief of his teacher.

KB

You must feel pretty full of yourself to "know" what ethics to teach someone else's kids.

Typical liberal mindset.

Well, at least it looks like you didn't butcher my quote this time. So, can I assume from your comment that you figure what was described was ethical?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I let Seafire jr. hunt this past weekend with a 223, loaded with 10 grains of Blue Dot and a 40 grain Ballistic Tip. ...

Hey Seafire, Once upon a time "I believe" you mentioned that you Hunted Deer with a down-loaded 22Hornet. Then on another Board here at AR, you said you never did it.

So, I'll go on record as saying I do not believe the above crock of bologna at all. However, I do believe you would allow your son the opportunity to wound a Deer with a 223Rem.

He's baaa-aaack.

So, HC, how about some proof on those "many thousands" of deer?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey SeafireHotsore, Once upon a time "I believe" you mentioned that you Hunted Deer with a down-loaded 22Hornet. Then on another Board here at AR, you said you never did it.killed MANY thousand of deer

So, I'll go on record as saying I do not believe the above crock of bologna at all. .

Probably closer to the rest of the worlds Point of view on thie matter. .. MANY thousand of deer?

REALLY?
LMAO

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
So, can I assume............
KB

Obviously you don't ask permission to assume that the 223 isn't a real deer rifle. Remember that you can only assume because you don't actually know.

Pretty insulting having you constantly bash the 223 here as so many here reading or posting actually have a vested interest in the subject.

I feel so terrible that I'm getting paid unreal money to build an unreal rifle for an unreal client to shoot unreal deer that turns into an unreal meal. Maybe I'll wake up and figure out it's just a dream and it's not real.

Maybe NOT

Again, what to you do for a living? so I can get into a forum to tell your customers that you don't have a real clue about your profession. And whatever you're do for a living is just marginal and unethical. Based on, of course, only my strong opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Well I guess 223s will work on deer...

this thread made me think so I let Seafire jr. hunt this past weekend with a 223, loaded with 10 grains of Blue Dot and a 40 grain Ballistic Tip...

I told him shot placement was going to be important.. amazingly I watched him do a head shot on a running blacktail buck at a little over 175 yds.....

dropped said deer like a sack of potatoes..

so I guess head shots...
223s...
loaded with blue dot
and varmint bullets
is highly effective on deer...

this one entered right below the ear...

all his practicing has evidently paid off over the summer...

LOL Seafire2

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
can get into a forum to tell your customers that you don't have a real clue about your profession. .

Seems as if you are doing an excellent job of doing that to yourself right here.

quote:

Once upon a time "I believe" you mentioned that you Hunted Deer with a down-loaded 22Hornet. Then on another Board here at AR, you said you never did it.

No what I said was that something loaded to 22 Hornet Specs could take a deer, especially with a Barnes 45 grain X bullet...

you ran with that as I hunted with a 22 Hornet..
so I correct your 'ASSumption' and then I get called a liar...

Good thing I pretty much realize what a waste of time, pointing out facts to you can be..

you only believe what you think, and then think it is some sort of pompous unwritten gospel....

and everyone who doesn't think like you do... is not as 'intelligent' as you are...

Seafire, I believe it is working

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
He's baaa-aaack.

So, HC, how about some proof on those "many thousands" of deer?

And he's channeling BBBruce!

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

And whatever you're do for a living is just marginal and unethical. Based on, of course, only my strong opinions.

Uhh - WTF are you talking about and WGAF anyhow?
This doesn't speak well of your opinion.
KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

And whatever you're do for a living is just marginal and unethical. Based on, of course, only my strong opinions.

Uhh - WTF are you talking about and WGAF anyhow?
This doesn't speak well of your opinion.
KB

KB, you're not very good at it.

Too bad I'm not up to your standards. However, your standards are not my problem, thankfully.

KB

Standards doesn't have a thing to do with it. It just doesn't make any sense was my point. Now that I think about it though it fits right in with most of your other posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
This doesn't speak well of your opinion.
KB

exactly. based on my limited knowledge on your profession, my strong opinion about it is worth as much as yours is at this table.

I don't lump you in the same cage as hotcore. You seem to actually believe the baseless nonsense you're posting and are desperate to convince others of it as well. While you troll a little with most every post here, it doesn't appear that's your intention of posting. Mostly it seems you're looking for somebody to validate your strong opinions formed by playing third wheel and intensely studying TV shows. I hope they start handing out college degrees from just watching TV shows. I'm sure that would cement our educational standing in the world. Seriously, try listing your style of experience on a job application sometime and see how serious it's taken. "Uhhh, well, I saw a TV show once and watched somebody else do it once or twice. Do I get the job?"

Hotcore on the other hand is only here troll. He doesn't care about the discussion in the least.

Either my assessment of you two is spot on, or Kabluewy is a much better troll than Hotcore .

Hey, HotCore (or is that "Melting at the Seams?) -

An entire audience awaits your presenation of proof regarding your statement of having killed "many thousands" of deer.

How about it?

Bobby,
I can't wait to eat my own words .. I'll make a public appology for a DOCUMENTED 6,001 .. some folks can't count to 10, so "many thousand" might be 1, 2, 3,4,5 and MANY thousand.. even if only 20% of those were head shots with 223s

kinda hard to keep track after the first 3 or 4 thousand, i am sure...

Target rich environment, ain't it?!?!

Jeff-

Yep, I'd take back my words, too, if ol' HotCore -- aka Melting at the Seams -- could offer up some sort of verification for his outrageous claim.

I am waiting...and waiting...but not holding my breath.

You know, I shot a few hogs around here (and post photos of a good many of them), and have developed what I call the "Hot Core formula for calculating numbers of animals killed."

I don't have an actual count -- an estimate is as good as it gets -- but will very onservatively state I've taken 225 over the past 10-12 years. I don't know how many were sows, but let's call it 100.

A biologist recently estimated a wild hog can give birth to as many as 140 piglets during its lifetime. I don't know if that is accurate, but for the moment, let's go with it.

Now, technically, by taking out those sows, another 14,000 were killed, right?

Of those, let's say 7000 were sows capable of producing 140 piglets each, on average.

Wow...that puts me up near the 1 MILLION mark of hogs killed.

Mercy...that's IMPRESSIVE...

I am about to join the ranks of the elite. Step aside, Hot Core. You have company...

Now when jeffeosso, Dustoffer, Geebubya, Gatogordo, Bob in TX, Larry Matherne, Whitworth and others begin to figure their numbers, we are going to need a calculator with the capability to handle some HUGE numbers...

I think we are talking TRILLIONS here.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
This doesn't speak well of your opinion.
KB

exactly. based on my limited knowledge on your profession, my strong opinion about it is worth as much as yours is at this table.

I don't lump you in the same cage as hotcore. You seem to actually believe the baseless nonsense you're posting and are desperate to convince others of it as well. While you troll a little with most every post here, it doesn't appear that's your intention of posting. Mostly it seems you're looking for somebody to validate your strong opinions formed by playing third wheel and intensely studying TV shows. I hope they start handing out college degrees from just watching TV shows. I'm sure that would cement our educational standing in the world. Seriously, try listing your style of experience on a job application sometime and see how serious it's taken. "Uhhh, well, I saw a TV show once and watched somebody else do it once or twice. Do I get the job?"

Hotcore on the other hand is only here troll. He doesn't care about the discussion in the least.

Either my assessment of you two is spot on, or Kabluewy is a much better troll than Hotcore .

This has gotten kind of wierd. I'm accused of having standards, and consistancy, belief in what I say, opinion, college degree off tv, troll, etc. Perhaps you have taken twisting issues to a new level.

I was thinking the troll was in the other shoes.
Humm, I think one should be careful of the company he keeps.

Some of you are beginning to seem rabid, as though slobbering over having too much fun with this rediculous thread.

I often wondered about why 223 aficionados seemed to be in a class aside from normal hunters. Now I'm just beginning to understand just how much different they are.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:


This has gotten kind of wierd. I'm accused of having standards, and consistancy, belief in what I say, opinion, college degree off tv, troll, etc. Perhaps you have taken twisting issues to a new level.

I was thinking the troll was in the other shoes.
Humm, I think one should be careful of the company he keeps.

Some of you are beginning to seem rabid, as though slobbering over having too much fun with this rediculous thread.

I often wondered about why 223 aficionados seemed to be in a class aside from normal hunters. Now I'm just beginning to understand just how much different they are.

KB

Yawn

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
based on my limited knowledge .

I can agree with that entire concept.
-----

Already provided the proof bobby. Unlike you when I asked you questions in the Gloating thread where CHE & PRE stomped the totally worthless HSGSs. You can ask questions, but you have no answers when you are pressed. Fits you perfectly.

Nearly as bad as anyone trying to justify a 22cal on Deer or Head Shots. Serious indications of zero actual Experience.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I correct your 'ASSumption' and then I get called a liar... ...

I appreciate the correction, but I did not call you a Liar. Just said "I" did not believe your sack of bologna - as usual.
-----

EDIT IN: Come to think of it, since I DID NOT call you a Liar and you claimed that I did, that does indeed make you a Lying sack of obummer just like the totally worthless teanScum.

Glad to correct all that.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:


Nearly as bad as anyone trying to justify a 22cal on Deer or Head Shots. Serious indications of zero actual Experience.

"I've killed many thousands"

for ending this discussion i suggest to rechamber your 223 to 6mmx45 and you have legal deer gun in almost any state and surely it will kill deer much better than 223

By the way, HC, you conveniently keep "forgetting" to provide ANY proof of those "many thousands" of deer you killed.

Every who wasn't on to you already now certainly is.

Deflecting attention with even more lies and false accusations will not work, either.

So, on behalf of lots of folks here:

Put up or shut up...