quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

quote:

Originally posted by llamapacker:
I will forward this thread to my attorney for possible action. He is understandably unhappy that I am making any public statement. I am cooperating with the appropriate authorities as requested. The wheels of justice turn slowly, however, so I expect I will have nothing further to post for a long time. I'll go back to the peanut gallery now, and let the professionals do their job.

Forgive me, but I, too, am a professional (and not an appropriate authority) stranded in the peanut gallery and contemplating possible action while trying to do my job.

But wait, I have made a public statement! Can one do that in this day and age?!

This is Ray Atkinson hiding behind Doug Chester all and bloody well over again.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if I am, it ain't much.

Well said, MR.

Guys,

I think Jim Manion raises some very good points and I'd suggest everyone refrain from posting copies of documents and/or emails etc because by doing so, they might actually be damaging the case for whichever person they're trying to defend.

I'm not a moderator but at the risk of sounding like one, it might also be an idea to try to remember that internet slander laws are extremely complex.......

On a different but related subject, we've been using a RBGan for internet electronic bank transfers whilst we're in the bush for some years now and I reckon it's one of the best pieces of kit ever invented...... and obviously prevents mistakes of this kind happening.

Jim


There does indeed appear to be more than one side to this story... but, As an African PH who has been royally Rogered with the rough end of a pineapple by a client I know the almost absolute impossibility of getting any ‘Justice’ out of the US legal system.

Similarly, having tried to help friends (a couple of whom post here on AR) who got taken by an operator I thought was a friend I have seen that for US and South African citizens to try and get justice in Zim (let alone misappropriated deposits back) is well neigh impossible as well.

TC’s are not, to me, an acceptable form of payment. I have NEVER been given one that didn’t bounce!!!!

The agent holds the deposit and expected trophy fees. I have 14 days after the end of the hunt to submit the paperwork including the banking – The bank is happy with a copy of the transfer from the USA even if it hasn’t arrived, so client has 12 days to fight with me or my agent – or transfer any outstanding balance.

At the end of 14 days…if all money hasn’t been paid, I report the matter to the zim police and reserve bank. At that point there is no chance, ever, of the client receiving his trophies, even if the dispute is resolved later. Not ideal, but by the letter of the law…and it puts a time line on finalising matters. The reverse though is that when you go to the zim Police, they are likely to take a very long look at your books…arrive with bank and parks investigations to check your quotas, and all other hunts in the previous three years….so one had better be squeaky clean.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I'm no lawyer but as I understand it . . .

I'm not a moderator, but at the risk of sounding like one. . .

Steve, do you play a lawyer or a moderator (or a grandmother) on TV? If not, you definitely have a career ahead of you as a character actor.

In the words of Wittgenstein: Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

Yet opinion offers a freedom denied to fact, eh Estragon?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I'm not a moderator but at the risk of sounding like one, it might also be an idea to try to remember that internet slander laws are extremely complex.......

Maybe you should just add this to your ever growing signature.

Guys,

Sometimes it's a good idea to try to read BETWEEN the lines.

Jim Manion made some VERY good points and it might benefit some to read his post carefully.

Hypothetically speaking, those internet libel laws are extremely complex for ALL parties and you might find it interesting to do a quick Google on the subject to find out more.

Truth is an absolute defense to libel or slander.....I'll damn sure take my chances.

Here is information the members of AR members may find interesting:


According to the website: www.utahsright.com click on "public salaries" and then do a search "William Phifer"

You will find William Phifer's salary is $127,199 per year and has the title of "University of Utah director of Sr. Vp. Health Sci.

Wow! with a salary like that I would suppose anyone would be able to pay their trophy fees after they killed 2 elephants, 2 buffalo, 1 croc, 1 giraffe, leopard and bait animals.

quote:

You will find William Phifer's salary is $127,199 per year and has the title of "University of Utah director of Sr. Vp. Health Sci.

I don't know the whole story... and would bet only Llamapacker and Nixon do. A mock trial in an internet kangaroo court is only obfuscating the facts and posting personal information like salaries is not cool in my opinion. What if this is a different William Phifer?

This is an African Hunting Forum. Good hunt experiences and bad hunt experiences should be posted here for those hunters contemplating a safari to glean useful information to help them make educated choices and get a feel for what to expect from different outfits and PH's. Past that, I think we leave this one to the two "aggrieved" parties and their agents and advisors to work out. I, for one, will not visit or post on this thread again.

I doubt he lives is a house like the one in the picture AND is able to take those kind of safaris making $130,000 a year. It may or not be the same person.

Personally, I have no idea who is telling the truth and who is lying. I think expressing one's opinion is fine. However passing along information as fact that may well not be is dangerous.

I do observes few things that make me suspicious about different elements of the story. Some things just don't add up. They are just suspicions, not facts. Accordingly, I am not going to repeat them.

Has Nixon ever had another negative report? I don't recall any but I didn't search.

Someone is seriously lying. I hope whoever it is gets their just punishment.

I am glad I am not involved.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
At the end of 14 days…if all money hasn’t been paid, I report the matter to the zim police and reserve bank. At that point there is no chance, ever, of the client receiving his trophies, even if the dispute is resolved later. Not ideal, but by the letter of the law…and it puts a time line on finalising matters.

Ganyana,

I found this part of your post very intersting. Are you saying that if the debt is not paid within a certain timeline you can legally withhold the client's trophies? It would seem to me that even if the client didn't pay within the slotted time, he is still owed the trophies because they are his, he paid for them.

Thanks for the clarification!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I doubt he lives is a house like the one in the picture AND is able to take those kind of safaris making $130,000 a year. It may or not be the same person.

Personally, I have no idea who is telling the truth and who is lying. I think expressing one's opinion is fine. However passing along information as fact that may well not be is dangerous.

I do observes few things that make me suspicious about different elements of the story. Some things just don't add up. They are just suspicions, not facts. Accordingly, I am not going to repeat them.

Has Nixon ever had another negative report? I don't recall any but I didn't search.

Someone is seriously lying. I hope whoever it is gets their just punishment.

I am glad I am not involved.

I agree with Larry - that is not a very high salary for the kind of lifestyle to include the hunting. You would in fact, be stretched pretty thin.

But it could be another person. Or perhaps Bill's wife rakes in the quid. You don't know.

There is a poster on this site who has the same name as a guy in Las Vegas who has made tons of money ripping people off with credit scams. Same guy? I hope not. I have a very unique name. Do a search on me and you will find I sell real estate on NJ. Is that me? Not on your life.

I suppose as the internet matures the "anonymity" aspect of it will dry up and we will have even less privacy than before. How ironic.

Graybird...Zim law is quite specific (and almost impossible to work within) but that is thanks to one Grahame Nott. Anyway, within 14 days of the hunt ending all moneys due have to be legally banked in Zimbabwe and a bank reciept showing that the money has been deposited in Zim must accompany any export application.

We all work arround the law...mostly the officials don't even look.If the money has been deposited then the trophies can go...but if they do check the dates and wish to be otherwise...Which is why I work with an agent who holds the money. Now that US $ re legal tender in Zim it is (theoretically) possible to give a refund if the money has already been bought into the country. In the past...no way short of a letter from the president of ever sending funds back..so ideally you had to keep everything outside the country until the hunt was over and then bank it all. Unfortunately there are small matters like cash flow and operating costs so some deposits need to be banked before the hunt starts...

in summery...the law is an ass, the paperwork a real nightmare...and there are no shortcuts that work reliably!

I wonder if the president of the University of Utah knows one of his depatrment heads has ripped off an African PH for 26 grand? Provided of course that that the guy at U of U and the fraudelent maggot are one and the same--

Just wondering, that's all.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
I wonder if the president of the University of Utah knows one of his depatrment heads has ripped off an African PH for 26 grand? Provided of course that that the guy at U of U and the fraudelent maggot are one and the same--

Just wondering, that's all.

People I have no dog in this fight and only wish that the offending party thuroughly gets his!!! That said many people here are getting WAY out of line!!!! I understand wanting to help, but the fact of the matter is what is said and done here is of no consiquence to justice, but it may royally screw someone who doesn't deserve it! We don't know if this is the same guy. Even if it is we have no business posting his salary or talking to his place of employment about things we REALLY know nothing about. At this point the only things we are aware of are second or third hand at best. Let's cool off and leave the personal info and linch mob alone for the time being!

Brett

Personal info that may or may not belong to the party in question is waaaaaay out of line.

How would you feel if your name/address/income was posted on an automotive board because some guy with the same name ripped off someone there?

The poster needs to edit that right now.

I wonder if William Phifer has ever been in a legal battle?
Attorney fees in a case like this would surely exceed his debts. Once filed with the courts, this all becomes public information.
Would be interesting to hear how media outlets would protray an American wildlife killer who hasn't paid his debts to an impoverished nation trying to support animal habitats. Not to mention the man who was cheated. A Black man , a local, a man supporting his family, a man trying to run a business in poorest country in the world , a man providing jobs to local people. Hummmm.

Good to hear the legal process has been initated. Open the doors and let the wolves take over.

Duckear,

I fail to see the big. Honest. It isn't like the guy's salary is disclosed here when no one else knows. IT WAS PUBLIC INFORMATION. Posted on a website already. Known to anyone who knows how to Google.

Now, whether it was the real Bill or not remains to be seen.

If this William Phifer is not the man who cheated Nixon, he doesn't really have a problem. IF he is the one who committed this fraud, he needs to be outed, and yes, broken financially if necessary to get recompense for Nixon. The kind of hit Nixon took could easily destroy him and all that he has struggled and worked for for over 30 years.

By not saying and doing anything we give our tacit approval and even a kind of support to this kind of behavior. We as a hunting community need to realize that we are ALL on trial when something like this happens.

I say deal the cards and see how they play. If we don't speak out, the cards will never be dealt--and this is the only way the truth will be known.

FWIW, I don't know Nixon, have never hunted with him, and never had any communication whatever with him or his staff. Period. But right is right, and it certainly appears to me at this point that Nixon is getting screwed. I think he or anyone else deserves better.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Duckear,

I fail to see the big. Honest. It isn't like the guy's salary is disclosed here when no one else knows. IT WAS PUBLIC INFORMATION. Posted on a website already. Known to anyone who knows how to Google.

Now, whether it was the real Bill or not remains to be seen.

AAW is right. If you work for a public, state, federal or gevernment agency in the U.S. then your salary is publicly released and 100% public knowledge. I know I used to work for three different universities, and one as a professor. Hell, when in grad school, we would look up the salaries for our professors, the janitor, president, whoever just for fun.

What was posted is nothing out of line becuase it is already public knowledge. And, as was mentioned if it isn't the same guy he has nothing to worry about.

It is a big deal.

You have taken a specific individual at the Univerity of Utah and linked him to this incident. In effect, accused him specifically of fraud without knowing for sure it is the right person.

Is that the way you would like to be treated?

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Duckear,

I fail to see the big. Honest. It isn't like the guy's salary is disclosed here when no one else knows. IT WAS PUBLIC INFORMATION. Posted on a website already. Known to anyone who knows how to Google.

Now, whether it was the real Bill or not remains to be seen.

AAW is right. If you work for a public, state, federal or gevernment agency in the U.S. then your salary is publicly released and 100% public knowledge. I know I used to work for three different universities, and one as a professor. Hell, when in grad school, we would look up the salaries for our professors, the janitor, president, whoever just for fun.

What was posted is nothing out of line becuase it is already public knowledge. And, as was mentioned if it isn't the same guy he has nothing to worry about.

That may be. I just know I wouldn't appreciate someone posting my personal information. Would you?

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
It is a big deal.

You have taken a specific individual at the Univerity of Utah and linked him to this incident. In effect, accused him specifically of fraud without knowing for sure it is the right person.

Is that the way you would like to be treated?

...or that fraud occured for that matter!!! I'm not saying it didn't, but anyone here who "knows for sure" on this one is full of it! The only people who know for sure are Nixon and Bill. The court will have the evidence and they will figure it out. We have NO evidence and at best any "decision" we come to is highly suspect. Again I am not familiar with either party and have no dog in this fight, but let the professionals do their work. That's what they do!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Duckear,

I fail to see the big. Honest. It isn't like the guy's salary is disclosed here when no one else knows. IT WAS PUBLIC INFORMATION. Posted on a website already. Known to anyone who knows how to Google.

Now, whether it was the real Bill or not remains to be seen.

AAW is right. If you work for a public, state, federal or gevernment agency in the U.S. then your salary is publicly released and 100% public knowledge. I know I used to work for three different universities, and one as a professor. Hell, when in grad school, we would look up the salaries for our professors, the janitor, president, whoever just for fun.

What was posted is nothing out of line becuase it is already public knowledge. And, as was mentioned if it isn't the same guy he has nothing to worry about.

That may be. I just know I wouldn't appreciate someone posting my personal information. Would you?

Brett

Maybe so, but when you work for one of the identities that I outlined, there isn't a dang thing you can do about it. IF you wanted to, you can go back a determine what I made when I worked for the universities.

It is what it is!

Brett:

Congressional salaries are public. Service members salaries are public. The five highest paid employees in any publicly traded company are public knowledge. The list goes on and on.

When I was in the Army my pay was known to all. I could have cared less. I wasn't in it for the money anyway.

If the real Bill is the same guy at the University of Utah, then it will be obvious to all who know him if he went to Africa. If he didn't, it is obviously not him.

One more point: the University of Utah Bill has a middle initial of "C."

I would like to see the issue put to bed because it hurts all of us - I frankly loved being able to wire what I owed after my last hunt. I don't want to go back to the old days. You can't even get 30K in TCs at most banks anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
It is a big deal.

You have taken a specific individual at the Univerity of Utah and linked him to this incident. In effect, accused him specifically of fraud without knowing for sure it is the right person.

Is that the way you would like to be treated?

I didn't do anything. I just simply stated that what was posted is already public knowledge, regardless if it is the right or wrong person. I could really care less who's salary it is.

sharpsguy,

What?

"If this William Phifer is not the man who cheated Nixon, he doesn't really have a problem. If he IS the one who committed this fraud, he needs to be outed, and yes, broken financially if necessary to get recompense for Nixon."

By the authorities IF he did something wrong. Not by you, me, or anyone else on this forum!

"By not saying and doing anything we give our tacit approval and even a kind of support to this kind of behavior."

Not really. Pretty much everyone has said IF that occured it's BS and he should get the worst. I don't think ANYONE supports this IF it happened. However some people realize this is best left to courts.

"We as a hunting community need to realize that we are ALL on trial when something like this happens."

Nope. Own your own! IF he didn't pay that's his shortcoming not the hunting community's. I've payed for all my hunts, guns, optics, ect, ect, ect. I'm sure most of the rest of us have as well. If a chiropractor commits insurance fraud it doesn't speak of me.

"I say deal the cards and see how they play. If we don't speak out, the cards will never be dealt--and this is the only way the truth will be known."

Should we hold murder trials via internet on AR? Oh wait there are court systems for that. Let them do THEIR work. We'll do ours: bickering over Scotch, .45-70s, PHC, and MS.

"But right is right, and it certainly appears to me at this point that Nixon is getting screwed. I think he or anyone else deserves better."

100% agreed!....but we just don't know for sure YET! So let's settle down with the vigilanty mentality. Inocent until proven guitly I believe????

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Brett:

Congressional salaries are public. Service members salaries are public. The five highest paid employees in any publicly traded company are public knowledge. The list goes on and on.

When I was in the Army my pay was known to all. I could have cared less. I wasn't in it for the money anyway.

If the real Bill is the same guy at the University of Utah, then it will be obvious to all who know him if he went to Africa. If he didn't, it is obviously not him.

One more point: the University of Utah Bill has a middle initial of "C."

I would like to see the issue put to bed because it hurts all of us - I frankly loved being able to wire what I owed after my last hunt. I don't want to go back to the old days. You can't even get 30K in TCs at most banks anymore.

Just the same I fail to see how this has any bearing on the conversation. I still think it is unnecessary and inapropriate to bring up people's personal info. Something may be required to be public, but it's still personal.

Brett

BAB--Regardless of what you may think, we don't live in a perfect world. The world works that way only in theory, not in fact. If you think the system works equally for Nixon and some fat cat over here that ripped him off, you are delusional. Stonewalling this will not get the issue out into the cold hard light of day. Trial by internet may well accomplish that, and if it does, the bottom line is the principals to this will still have the opportunity to have their day in court.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
BAB--Regardless of what you may think, we don't live in a perfect world. The world works that way only in theory, not in fact. If you think the system works equally for Nixon and some fat cat over here that ripped him off, you are delusional. Stonewalling this will not get the issue out into the cold hard light of day. Trial by internet may well accomplish that, and if it does, the bottom line is the principals to this will still have the opportunity to have their day in court.

....or it could just cause harm to someone who didn't diserve it! I just don't see how anyone can assume they'll get to the bottom of this with out a little thing like FACTS. We don't have coppies of travelers checks, ect, ect, ect and we're never going to, so I just don't see how we can get past conjecture.

Brett

"their day in court..." could well include others aside from the two parties lodging the complaints.
There have been diplomatic suggestions that opinions, remarks, comments, statements, etc. of an accusative nature be best left as private opinions. "Beware of your public utterances..." may be the best rule to follow in this matter for none of these postings can be erased nor retracted.

martin

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
It is a big deal.

You have taken a specific individual at the Univerity of Utah and linked him to this incident. In effect, accused him specifically of fraud without knowing for sure it is the right person.

Is that the way you would like to be treated?

I didn't do anything. I just simply stated that what was posted is already public knowledge, regardless if it is the right or wrong person. I could really care less who's salary it is.

You really dont get it. It is not about the posted salary, it is about stating as fact the guy at the U of Utah is the same guy accused of stiffing the PH over trophy fees when you aren't sure they are one in the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
It is a big deal.

You have taken a specific individual at the Univerity of Utah and linked him to this incident. In effect, accused him specifically of fraud without knowing for sure it is the right person.

Is that the way you would like to be treated?

...or that fraud occured for that matter!!! I'm not saying it didn't, but anyone here who "knows for sure" on this one is full of shit! The only people who know for sure are Nixon and Bill. The court will have the evidence and they will figure it out. We have NO evidence and at best any "decision" we come to is highly suspect. Again I am not familiar with either party and have no dog in this fight, but let the professionals do their work. That's what they do!

Brett

Thank you for the clarification. I did not mean to imply one or the other side committed fraud. But we do have two mutually exclusive stories and no way to know which is true with the 'facts' we have now.

Duckear,

We're in agreement. I was just expounding on your point and then making a general statement. This part was for you:
"...or that fraud occured for that matter!!!"

The rest was for everyone:
"I'm not saying it didn't, but anyone here who "knows for sure" on this one is full of it! The only people who know for sure are Nixon and Bill. The court will have the evidence and they will figure it out. We have NO evidence and at best any "decision" we come to is highly suspect. Again I am not familiar with either party and have no dog in this fight, but let the professionals do their work. That's what they do!"

Brett

OH

Do you guys really think for one minute that SSG/Nixon is running some kind of con or fraud? That he has been paid and wants more, that the TCs were stolen, not reported in here by llamapacker, etc........Give me a f...ing break?

PS: What professionals are doing their job?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
OH

Do you guys really think for one minute that SSG/Nixon is running some kind of con or fraud? That he has been paid and wants more, that the TCs were stolen, not reported in here by llamapacker, etc........Give me a f...ing break?

PS: What professionals are doing their job?

Gato:

You bring up an excellent point. Does his previous posts mention stolen TCs? In light of all of his other bitching, does he mention that? If llamapacker had suffered theft, you would think he would have brought it up.

He claims he reported them stolen when he returned home. Did he not have access to a Sat phone? Would Nixon not be so kind as to lend him one?

Sorry Llamapacker, the evidence here is overwhelming.

BAB:

I doubt there will be a day in court unless someone files a suit. Who will that be? Nixon? You?

quote:

BAB:

I doubt there will be a day in court unless someone files a suit. Who will that be? Nixon? You?

I don't know. Both sides have stated they're taking legal actions, so I would ask them if they'll answer. And well we're asking questions of each other: How exacly to you and Gatogordor propose to convict Bill in our kangaroo court without access to relevant or reliable evidence? Flip a coin? Use a divining rod? Throw some bones on the ground? Use your super powers that detect good and evil? Justice may or may not be done by courts, but at this point I say give the parties a chance to figure it out or take it to court. Either way how do you propose we "try" him here?

Brett

Seems some people can't read between the lines particularly well, so at the risk of sounding like an old maid, I'll try to make it clearer.

Publication of emails and documents etc and some statements could actually damage Nixon's case (I draw your attention to Jim Manion's post) rather than help it and internet libel laws can be heard in almost any country the statement appears in and most require the libeller to prove his statements are true not for the libelee to prove they're untrue.

Also, it's often not just the libelee that can be prosecuted, it's also often others, including for example, even the ISP company. A well known ISP for example, recently came to an out of court settlement for compensation and costs that added up to a HUGE amount.... and the reason for that was no more than someone made an untrue statement on a site that was hosted by that ISP. My guess is that the ISP company may well in turn now go after someone else in the hope of getting some of their money back.

I sincerely hope Nixon gets paid but (hypothetically speaking) the best support people can give him is to consult that nice Mr Google on the phrase 'internet libel' and post with restraint.... because you can bet your life some have already gotten up to speed on the subject!

quote:

Originally posted by llamapacker:

In fact, my travelers' checks, cash, laptop computer, and digital camera were taken in camp. I realize I am not the first to suffer a loss in camp, but it does happen, as I now know. The loss of travelers' checks was reported as soon as I returned to civilization, and the checks were not properly countersigned.

quote:

Originally posted by llamapacker:

Lastly, review my PM to Bobby one more time. I have had no direct contact with Nixon since my hunt.

Bill
I wish you would rewrite the above post. I highlighted in red some words and phrasing that sound very "flexible". Using words such as "taken" and "loss" instead of stolen makes it hard to understand what you is trying to say. To a cynic it could almost seem that you are using these ambiguous words to pull the wool over our eyes. Luckily for you we have very few cynics here on AR.

As to this paragraph:

quote:

It has also been assumed that the hypothetical post I made last year titled "PH-error...", somehow relates to this hunt. I've made clear several times in that thread, and by PM to several individuals, that this scenario does not reflect any real hunt, and definitely not my safari with SSG. Why someone would want to overlook clear statements to the contrary, and make this leap, is beyond me.

Since it is beyond you that, "someone would want to overlook clear statements to the contrary," I will again point out that a few cynics sneak onto AR from time to time. To the rest of us it is extremely clear that the "PH-error..." post you made last year was purely hypothetical. Personally I am deeply shocked and ashamed that anyone would have ignored your "clear statements to the contrary".

Cynics

But Bill please don't worry, most of us here on AR are not nearly as dumb as you obviously seem to believe we are. We can see right through all the BS that has been posted on this thread.

Finding the BS has been pretty easy because it all seems to be contained in one post......

It has been postulated --

cynicism in its pure form is the adjoining

position to true enlightenment--

although the transition may be beyond one's

capacity due to fear of loss of control-----



as has been postulated --

one's difficulty in embracing the spiritual

aspect of--

the truth will set you free--

may be beyond one's capacity due to fear---


particularly since incarceration of the body

may appear as a significant obstacle to such

self-realization