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| Very Critical Hunt Report from My Leopard Hunt with AR's own Karl S. | Login/Join |
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Congrats to eyedoc! Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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7 pages now!  What's the record for the longest??  Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Tim, I think that we are all up in the air here over the outcome of your situation. Did you resolve it?? | |||
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A lot more than this. Tim mentioned that the rest of the money is coming with Eyedoc, so may be we should wait unbtil Eyedoc is back. | |||
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A letter from eyedoc, Dear Angela All my love to you and all the kids. Things are going real well here. I am getting along great with my PH and his staff. I also enjoyed the company of the dog handler Glen, but he is gone now. He went home today because the leopard is in the salt and his part of the hunt is done. The day after my leopard was shot I was able to shoot a steenbok, a warthog and a baboon. We spent today chasing mountain zebra all over the mountains but could not get a good shot opportunity. We may get a chance again later if I get done with the elephant in time. We are spending the night at Karl's so we can get an early start toward the Caprivi where we will hunt elephant. This is why I have access to the computer. We will drive through Grootfontain, near Makalaan and then about 5 hours more. You all remember the drive to Makalaan, this will about be double. At least I am not making it just after that very long flight. I have my legs back under me now. I will try to send a photo of some of the animals I have taken so far. Hope this gets through to you all. I will have access to computer for a little while so if any of you respond I may can reply. Love to you all, Angela, Alisa , Neil, Todd, Kristin Wes and Doug please keep our internet buddies aware of what is going on and let them know that there is no need to worry about my circumstances here because all is top end. Wish you all could be here to share this experience with me. Love to you all....mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | |||
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We love you too, Mike.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Good for him! Can't wait to see this cat! | |||
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Eydoc's report tends to re-enforce what I have said earlier. We have not had a negative report about Karl before, and he has moved very quickly to solve the problem that had happened between him and Tim. And seems to be doing his best to make sure there is no repeat of it. Hence my suggestion that he should really be given the benefit of the doubt, as he only has one negative report against him. I hope the other outfitters who have had negative reports are listening, especially those who have had more than one. This is especially true of the ones who do not pay their Phs and video cameramen for months after the hunt has already finished, and only do so after being threatened. | |||
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Glad to see that this has just about been waxed | |||
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and the pictures. looks like they are having a good time       karl and eyedoc i hope you are having as much fun as it looks like on the pictures. Best Peter | |||
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The problems were so egregious they absolutely never should have happened in the first place and it should never have required public shame to have things made right. He also may not have had a negative report but some people don't bother to report negative experiences and some just don't know how. As for me, I will ad Karl to my list of those I'll never do business with. | |||
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That is a great cat and a monster steenbuck. Not to mention the gemsbok, the warthog and the baboon. Looks like eyedoc is having a heck of a trip. | |||
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Normally, I would agree with you, but from what I know, from individuals who have hunted and have had a bad experience, and have asked me not to make it public, there are quite a few outfitters and PH, some are even active on this site, who I would never even consider hunting with. Some are very big name outfitters, and some have made a lot worse transgerssions than Karl. But those who have had the bad experience prefer to keep that off public threads. Of course, it is your choice that you do not consider Karl for any future hunt you might have. And I would also like to add that I do not know Karl or any of the outfitters I mentioned, and have absolutely no dealings with any of them whatsoever. There are very few outfitter who have not had a single bad report. Many get a bad report for things which are beyond their hand, and the client thinks it is due to the outfitter or PH. Not many are as bad as not having a hunting license ready for the client for indstance, or sending a client to an area which does not have the animals he supposed to hunt. Nor are they as bad as having a camp with no food, or not paying the PH who conducts the hunt. There are very few "squeeky clean" apples in the hunting industry, and one only finds them by luck. And when one does, he better stick with them. Would I hunt with some of those who have had a bad report? Some of them, yes, others, definitely not. It all depends on what I have heard. Back to Karl. He at least has refunded Tim's money, to Tim's satisfaction, without getting into a lengthy argument. Compare that with other complaints heard here, and see how far the outfitter has gone to solve his clients problems. I am hoping this is going to be a lesson to outfitters who do book clients off AR, that they better deliver what they have promised, or they would be exposed. I also hope the clients would consider making a report as soon as they are back home, and not hold on for months, or even years, before they do contact me personally about it. I do appreciate their confidence in telling me their experiences. But I think they can help eliminate bad behavior from outfitters if they post their grievances on the forum. | |||
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It is not clear to me that this statement is true. If I have missed something perhaps someone can point me in the right direction. Last I heard Tim's agreement was somewhat reluctant and more in the line of "well this is probably the best I'm going to get". This is not "Tim's satisfaction". In addition, last I heard he hadn't even got the money that Karl had said he was going to get! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter, My understanding is that he has send Tim most of his money, and the rest is being sent with Eyedoc. The final chapter will be heard once Eyedoc is back. | |||
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Thanks for this site Saeed, Going on my first Safari this next week, and hope things will go well. Been to two SCI conventions, and to Dalls Safari club this past winter. This is a big investment and hope to go on many more hunts in the next few years. My first impressions were to be wary, not knowing who the good reputable outfitters were and the value of the hunts they were offering. I have met many great people on this site and have dealt with many in getting several rifles built. This site has been an excellent tool for researching and getting honest feedback regarding all African issues. Going shooting Sunday with a friend who is from Kenya, that I met through Butch Searcy and we have become friends who hope to share a Buffalo hunt with in the near future. This new hobby has made my retirement a joy to experience and has opened my eyes and soul to a world that I did not expect to partake in. Now this is the major focus of my life through the next several years. | |||
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Saeed, agreed. So he has refunded MOST of the money that he and Tim agreed to. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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I'm not sure of the number of pages, but the Sheephunter MEGA-thread had over 77,000 views and over 1,600 posts. Plus it spawned quite a few related threads. It seems to have vanished into a cyberspace black hole as at least 6 links to it result in an error message. | |||
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Tim, You're silence is obvious here...is all well with Karl now? The guy took a big hit here because of your post so I think that you owe him and the rest of us a resolution or final say on the matter, so that prospective clients can decide if they should book him or not. | |||
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Karl took a big hit because of what he did not deliver as he had promised. However, I presume Tim is waiting for Eyedoc to get back home with the rest of his money. Once Eyedoc is back, we hope Tim will give us the final details of this adventure. | |||
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Saeed's statement speaks volumes. I ask my clients, whether they are off this site or not, how they feel the hunt is going, or was the hunt satisfactory, or what do think I could do to improve the hunt. I would like to see on here and on other sites I participate on, members that go on hunts with guides/outfitters/Ph's, when they get back from the hunt, Give Some Damn Feed Back. Positive/Negative/Constructive Critisism/Suggestions, whatever. How many times do we only read about hunts gone bad, and not one word is said if the client killed every animal they were after. Anyone want to hazard a guess on the percentage of successful hunters that post their results on a place like this versus those that just never say anything about a first rate hunt. If a person goes on a hunt with someone/anyone that is a regular member of this site, please have the decency to file a report of some kind on how the experience was. I would suspect that many folks are like me, in that if I am doing something wrong, I can not correct that if someone does not tell me. I guess this all sounds dumb coming from someone that guides for Javelina and Spring Turkey in Texas, but I really don't thing it matters. When a guide/outfitter/PH/Booking Agent makes it known to the public on a site like this and does book people from such sites, it really helps for those clients to come back on here and give a report, whether it is good, bad or indifferent. It might be nice, if a seperate topic section could be set up, so that clients who have booked with those folks on here that offer hunts, could make a post about the experience, and regardless of whether it was a good/bad/indifferent report, the ol;y person that could respond would be the guide/outfitter/PH/Booking Agent, and not the Kangaroo Court. This is something IMO that is needed on all internet hunting forums. If a person has a good experience or a horrible experience, they shuld post the details from their side of the situation and then it would be up to the operator to reply. The rest of the Peanut Gallery would only be able to set and watch. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Tim may get some money back but that wouldnt make it alright to me. He didnt fly all the way to Africa to get the run around he did he went to hunt. In the work I have done everyone gets the same service big or little money being spent. That doesnt happen every time with people. It appears to me Tim was caught up with the other party going for the more money too bad for Tim. | |||
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Leopardtrack, you don't have enough information? I do! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Yes Peter, after reading this whole mess I definetly DO know if I would hunt with Karl or not, but I do look foreward to hearing a final outcome from both Tim and Karl. I understand that Tim is holding off on a comment until eyedoc delivers his money...but with that said does this mean that as long as Tim get's his refund back all is well with him and Karl and this is all just a big misunderstanding?? Tim, did you rush your indictment on Karl and write this post while you were still pissed-off and had not gotten your thoughts together first?? Karl has also been silent on this as well. This whole situation is just a big ugly mess with no winner. | |||
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Leopardtrack: You really either can't read very well or you didn't read all of Tim's posts and you definitely can't read between the lines at all. Tim is apparently bound by his agreement with Karl not to post anymore negative comments on this matter. IMO it appears that his word means considerably more to him than it does to Karl, as it should. A man's word is his honor, it's not something that one can violate one day and be redeemed the next, just because you kept it that time, either you're good for what you say or you aren't. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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OK Cowboy take it easy now...sorry but I guess I missed that one. I didn't realize that you were the AR Gestapo either. | |||
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Wow, looks like somebody's trying to beat my record for posts that I currently "own" with the Hein is a frigging crook thread. Suffice to say as always there are two sides to every story and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if I were Karl I would have insisted on a two week "delta" and picked up the airline ticket tab as he offered. It appears those Russian were repeat good clients and with that PH quitting on on him, he was between a rock and a hard place. Those Ruskies were booked way ahead of Mr.Herald and I would have insisted on a postponement. Lots of new "faces" on this thread that have appeared much like the Sheephunter thread as apparent "shills" and that sucks. The fact that Tim's videographer didn't show with a work visa cost them some time. As fasr as the illegla leopard hunting "suggestion", pure horseshit. Karl's been around a while and enjoys a formidable reputation. No way he'd even suggest that. Now he's offered a settlement that seems more than fair. The issue with the funds transfer is a valid one. In most third world countries, it is a BIG deal to export dollars especially without documentation. I am sure Eyedoc will bring Tim's money back and put this matter to rest. What busts my chops is the continuous and strident harrying from ankle biters who really have no purpose other than to stir the pot. As to Karl, I'd hunt with you ANYTIME. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Sorry to sound like an ankle biter. To me this is simply about living up to your word. Did the Russians contract specify Karl as their PH? Also, I'll ask again how the PH quitting should impact the fact that Tim was left without a tracker and cook? I believe there was significantly more to this than a simple loss of a single PH. | |||
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Well without all the facts, you do. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Then please provide me with some facts. You can start by answering the two simple questions that I asked. | |||
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Why? Like I said from the offset, I, nor you for that matter have all the facts other than the ones I posted. Had the trip been slid two weeks as Karl suggested and at his expense, none of this would have happened. That and what I've posted, is all I know. And I do know of Karl by reputation so I'm good with that. Like the Sheephunter thread, lambasting people without all the facts provides no constructive input to this rather unfortunate episode, especially when a man's livelyhood and heretofore impeccable reputation is dragged through the gutter. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Why has Tim got to slide his hunt two weeks? Why didn't the Russians do that, then none of this would have happened. Tim was absolutely right in not accepting a change in his hunting plans at the last minute. | |||
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Because the Russians booked first. Now if Tim booked first, then I stand corrected. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Damn Tim, you are nothing but an ungrateful slob! Here is this really nice guy, Karl, who is doing you a favor, and what do you do, you malign his good name. There's the Internet for you. Jorge thinks you owe Karl an apology, so, make it quick so we can all get on with our lives and forget this unpleasant business that is ALL YOUR FAULT! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter, aside the fact you are proving my point as you don't have the whole story either, I NEVER said Tim had maligned his name. In fact, I was SPECIFIC about OTHER people that did not have the full picture, kinda like YOU, stirring the pot. Further, I never said he owed Karl an apology. So if you want to continue stirring the pot with your provocative posts go right ahead. Incidentally, I'll be at Gateway tomorrow at 0800 at the backside 100 yard range, maybe we can trade facts. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Sounds like a challenge to a duel  | |||
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Not at all, but I always find face to face discussions a lot more civil than behind the monitor, don't you? Besides, are U kiddin'? I may be a world-famous Naval Aviator but hell I'm 54! jorgeUSN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Certainly not! If you read my posts I have REPEATEDLY asked the experts on this forum to explain to us peons how this could have been avoided. In the past we have been told to have a written contract. We have been told to raise issues immediately rather than just come back and complain. Well, guess what, Tim did all that and he still got screwed! I go to Gateway at least once a week, and tomorrow is not on my schedule. In any case, when I go shooting I go to have fun not to get into a pissing contest. You claim to have the facts, and I assume that you got them from Karl. The only facts I have are the ones posted on this forum, from both Tim and Karl. I really dont understand why the FOK (Friends of Karl) seem to find it impossible to say: "Hey, I'm a friend of Karl. He really screwed up big time, but he is not really like this", instead of presenting him as infallible. That insults my intellgence. And you know what? It really doesn't matter who booked first. A contract is a contract. I was given Karl's name by JudgeG as someone to contact for a hunt. I will not book a hunt with him, but I'm sure that he won't mind as you and his buddies will keep him busy. And that's OK too. I have no desire to influence others, even if I could! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Do you have a reading comprehension issue? I don't know Karl, never met him and for the third time I said I DO NOT have all the facts and nowhere have I said Karl deserves an aoplogy and I haven't spoken wit Ernest in months. But you go right ahead and continue to see the world in absolutes. Oh and one more time maybe it will stick: I DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND NEITHER DO YOU and I haven't accused Tim of anything. Tell you one thing though, I don't go to Africa often but when I do I get what I pay for and I don't mind paying full "goy retail". As far as Gateway, I assure you it wouldn't be a pissing contest, but hell I go three four times a week then maybe I can explain to you what the FOK I was talking about. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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It could have been avoided if Tim had held up a couple of weeks as Karl requested. Karl was in a bind, and Tim knew it. Instead of helping a good PH over a rough spot, Tim tightened the screws to get what he wanted when he wanted it. I smell a hatchet job on Karl's reputation. Karl came up short, but not all of it was his making. Tim complained that he couldn't get any closer than 200-250 yards from an animal he wanted to shoot. Sorry, but that is a shot any reasonably competent rifleman should be able to make. If the cameraman was worth carrying over there, he should have enough lenses to bring a 250 yard shot to arms length. If you can't shoot at that distance, or your imported cameraman can't get the picture, don't blame the PH. Maybe Tim couldn't find animals, but eyedoc certainly has, so that complaint by Tim doesn't fly either. The money thing is spot on. I personally have been involved in a transaction from SA that was less than four thousand dollars and the money had to be sent in two payments 30 days apart to be legal. Karl has shown remarkable restraint, and a lot of class in trying to satisfy Tim after Tim has tried to destroy Karl's reputation. There are rouge PH's to be sure, but I don't think Karl Stumpfe is one of them. The other side of the coin is that there also must be clients from hell, and it is starting to look to me like Tim might be one of them. | |||
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