Mike

I kept that 458 in that configuration for a long time. Very handy, I liked it a lot. But doing pressure traces, and lots of heavy loads I decided to put a AI Claro on it for that. But it's a simple operation to put my Camo's back on!

Yes, yours should be a match to that one, barrel bands and all! Spiffy!

Irene is blowing now, but I have seen a hell of a lot worse so no worries. Compound is rated at 120 mph, so I am good to go, some of the compound a bit more than that even! I doubt we hit 50 mph tonight.

I am off for a little nap, about 8 hours or so, catch you guys in the morning if the power holds out, if not, I bust the gen set off and catch you anyway!

LOL

Michael

"Hey I did a page for Andrew over on the B&M site, how about you guys take a look and let me know what you think???

Here is the link:"

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...com/Hunt-Africa.html



It is GRAND!
Makes me want to hunt with Andrew.
How do you pronounce your wife's name, "Jaun,"
is it the same as Jose's brother Juan, or like my son John, or June, or Jan, or Joan, or Hahn or Hun, or Honey?
Afrikaans, English or Tarheel accent?

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Where the heck did everybody go? We had an earthquake back here and I am worried about you guys!

Michael, did we hear anything from Brian yet?

Dave!

I heard from Brian this morning. Below is straight from Brian;

quote:

Just finished looking over the Browning. Based on what I see the 2.250" cases will not feed. The gun relies on the insert in the mag for a feed ramp. To fit the 458 B&M this has to be removed. The barrel extension doesn't have any feed ramp so the rounds just hit the squared off end of it. Looked at the 458 B&M S.A. This might work in the mag and feed BUT it is to short to rechamber. Looked at the extension, it is a separate piece but is not sold through parts. Might be able to bore the factory barrel out and re-use it. This is speculation it this point as Mr. Bush does not want to use this gun to re-work.

I am sure anyone that would like to speak further with Brian about this he would be happy to talk to you.

It does not appear to be an "EASY" conversion as we had hoped it might be. Sometimes little things like "Feeding Proper" get in the way of progress! I think it might can be done with the 450 Magazines and a 458 B&M SA, but might not be as simple as a re-chamber. Really don't have a good idea until someone actually tries one out, and even then possibly run into a problem and not be able to do it?

If it was matter of 458 B&M, then I might bite that bullet myself and give it a try, 458 B&M SA--maybe, but how much more do we get with the 458 B&M SA than the 450 Marlin?

Dave, what can a 300, 325, 350 be pushed to in the 450 Marlin?

Take these things into account, is it worth the trouble? 458 B&M--Yes--But not possible. 458 B&M SA--Maybe? Maybe Not?

Michael

Dang! Well, it was worth a try. Besides, with the BBW#13 and the Woodleigh Hydros, the 450 Marlin will still do a fine job anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
It is GRAND!
Makes me want to hunt with Andrew.
How do you pronounce your wife's name, "Jaun,"
is it the same as Jose's brother Juan, or like my son John, or June, or Jan, or Joan, or Hahn or Hun, or Honey?
Afrikaans, English or Tarheel accent?

RIP

Jaun. OK, like "shaun" only with the J. Honey usually works-LOL.



Dave

quote:

Dang! Well, it was worth a try. Frowner Besides, with the BBW#13 and the Woodleigh Hydros, the 450 Marlin will still do a fine job anyway.

Yes, never know until you take a look at it, sometimes easy, sometimes not so easy. It could probably be done of course, but there might be so many complications, aggravation, and costs incurred to not be worth the effort in the long run. I find normally the easy to convert projects are the most reliable in the end. For me, and for all of us, reliability is a key issue. Of course one can always do whatever with a single shot where reliability of the next round is not an issue. But here with the bolt guns and lever guns, reliability is a most important factor, easy to convert is part of the reliability issue.

Michael

Hmmmm
Need a 2.1" case
458 B&M SA Long Neck?
Lengthen the neck to 2.1"

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Hmmmm
Need a 2.1" case
458 B&M SA Long Neck?
Lengthen the neck to 2.1"

Make that the .458 B&M SM...using the 2.1" Winchester Short Magnum case. Then would only require minor modification to the magazine to accomodate the wider bullet diameter...as the case already matches the magazine angles. Sounds like a simple solution to me.

458 this, 458 that--I just realized I had 3 458 cartridges! 458 is good!

Speaking of 458! Surprises me how little things slip by one! When I first started the 458 B&M RL 10X showed great for the heavy bullets, but this is in the beginning, still too lazy to hook up the pressure trace, so I was only taking 450s to 2150-2175 or so, in 20 inches. Then started playing around with AA2520, and it really shined, taking the 450s to 2250 in 20 inches, sorta forgot all about RL 10X, never did do pressure traces. I remembered this back before leaving for Africa at the end of May, and I did some pressure traces, excellent results, until I needed to change kegs of RL 10X, then what I had just done a day before, was giving WAY too much pressure in the new keg of powder! I left for Africa, with AA2520 loads, and never got back to the pressure traces. Then it dawned on me this morning I needed to work that. Although AA2520 has served and will serve well in the 458 B&M, it's rather heavily compressed. I don't mind compression at all, but RL10X is way less compressed, giving the same velocity same pressures, with 10 grs less powder. So.......... I have a full compliment of loads, soon as I can get on the range, air con finished, then it's PT time and sort that out.

Also working on some final loads in the 458 B&M SA in the DPMS. Have 295/325 BBW#13s, 325 North Fork CPS, and 350 North Fork Premiums to test. Then I think maybe some heavy stuff later.

No terminals this week. Just other sorts of range work. Development gets to a point, but it really never ends with these things!

I have a good bit of pressure traces to do in 50 B&M and 500 MDM, but my rifles are still with Wes and those bastogne stocks. Beginning to think maybe I just dreamed about those stocks, maybe they weren't real?

Michael

I got a little surprise yesterday! 5 sets of 475 B&M Super Short Dies from Hornady! So, that means the 475 B&M Super Short project is ON! I plan on putting a strain gage on the rifle today, and starting getting ready to shoot next week! Pressure traces, load data, different powders, and terminals will begin on this project. Yippie!

Michael

I get started this morning, very shortly in fact, doing pressure trace and load data on the new 475 B&M. Dies come in, easy loading now.








I expect Big Things, from this Little Big Bore! Fun too!

Also, just FYI--I did a new page on the B&M site this morning, while old hat to me, I know that some folks can be intimidated by making brass for some cartridges. I know I was many years ago! So it dawned on me I really had not spent much time showing folks how easy it is to make B&M brass, so I did a page on it. Some might find it interesting, it's really just too easy to do, no big secrets or process, basically it's 1 step and finished! That step just happens to be running through the size die and loading! Take a look, see if I missed anything? Or if it's clear and understandable, or if there is something I can add?


http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...ss-for-the-B-Ms.html

Thanks for suggestions if needed!


Michael

Michael

The new page looks super- as does that 475 SS. I believe this 475 cal is gonna be fun.

Today will be the second day under 100 since june 30.

maybe can get the guns back out soon-

SSR

The new page:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

The new page looks super- as does that 475 SS. I believe this 475 cal is gonna be fun.

Today will be the second day under 100 since june 30.

maybe can get the guns back out soon-

SSR

Oh the trials and tribulations I have to put up with, whew, long day on the range, first day with Air Con, I shot in a chilly 72 degrees, almost needed a jacket or something! I can still "feel the Chill", heh heh.........

Just rubbing it in a little Cross! HEH HEH.........

I did get a good go at the 475 SS today, made it through some 2cd Gen work with 3 different powders, well under pressure, 350 BBW#13s up to 2150, 320 BBW#13s up to a tad under 2300 fps, 375 North Forks to 2100 fps. Just 2 Gen loads so far. 3rd Gen should start falling into close to max.

Also will start 3rd Gen with "Fired Brass". Fired Brass tends to give some less pressures than Formed Brass. So 3rd Gen may just be proving out the 2 gen Loads, then there will most likely be a 4th Gen. All interesting stuff you know!

Yes Jim, the pages keep turning eh!

Michael

Michael, Sam, & Others,
Hope y'all haven't flooded out from the rain!

No man, we are good to go here, no floods! Sam has gone to Norway, left yesterday, shooting a bunch of damned deer or some such nonsense! No, did not even take a decent rifle with him either, some sort of 300 Winchester, with boring bullets to boot! Shame! Not sure why he is taking that thing? Must be really small deer I reckon? HEH.......

Yes, been on the range for the last few days, cleanup, along with doing load development and Pressure traces on the 475 B&M. I even have been messing with that 458 B&M SA too, in between, and getting a 9.3 B&M ready to go to Alaska on a goat mission, sent it out yesterday, or the day before? I forget. The 9.3 is loaded with 255 CEB BBW#13 NonCons at 2670 fps. My guy should be good to go out to 250 yds dead on. Of course not sure he could hit one at 25 yds, much less 250, so it's a moot point anyway! Don't expect much of a bullet report on that one!


475 B&M Super Short, WW296, WW297, and LilGun! That's the main three powders and more than likely the most efficient for the cartridge, as they are in the 50 SS and the 458 SS. I will try some more as time rolls on, but unless I make some sort of miraculous powder discovery, these three are top end powders for the Super Shorts. So far, while Lilgun has been a miracle powder in the 50 and the 458, this 475 likes the WW296 very much, giving excellent numbers, maybe slightly less than LilGun, but more consistent and even. WW297 being the military variant of WW296 is doing well also. LilGun giving high end velocity, but some inconsistency in pressures that I don't care for.

In less than a week I have data already loaded on the B&M Website for the cartridge. Not too bad.

I have not tuned the little rifle at all, most of the Super Shorts require some tuning of the mag spring holding it in place. I have done nothing, and this one feeds and functions with anything you put in it, nothing is moving. However, I have busted one scope with it, but think it was accumulative effect, the one I started with was on one of the 500 MDMs for some time, and the one that I hunted with in June. Actually busted, cracked the front lens! Never done that before? Oh well, that's two I have now to send back for repairs.

Yesterday shooting along, my NECG rear irons come loose! HEH.... Then I noticed shots were going off course, not grouping well? Hmmmmm? Both scope bases had loosened up and scope was flopping around! HEH..... Fixed that, finished the session! It's always something when doing as much as I do here.

Jest of the data with the 475 B&M Super Short is the 350 BBW#13 at 2200 fps, the matching 320 NonCon at 2300 fps, both 375 North Fork FPS and CPS at 2100 fps. I did play with a 400 Hornady HP up to a bit over 1900 fps and a 325 Speer up to a tad over 2200 fps before running into pressures. Pressure trace is spot on, when you top over 65000 PSI, the rifle and brass let's you know it as well. So have very high confidence in the numbers. Anyone doing any sort of half way serious work needs some sort of way to measure pressures. This PT is excellent, although a bit sensitive and delicate at times, once you learn to work with it, it's a tool you can't do without! Takes all the "guess work" out!

Also working with the 458 B&M SA too. No pressure traces on that thing, doing it the old fashion way, Case Measuring and case study! If in a bolt gun it would exceed where I have it now no doubt. But I am being a bit conservative with that Semi auto action I suppose. I have it equal to or slightly exceeding the 458 SS data so far. 300 gr bullets to over 2400 fps. It really likes the 325 Hornady Flex and running it to 2300 fps, and 350 Speer and Barnes TSX to 2200 fps. I have now some BBW#13s and North Forks loaded to see how they do. Problem with those, feeding issues. I have not done any magazine adjusting yet with it, and it flat will not feed a lot of bullets yet. Still working with it as I get time. Did get data posted on the website for it. It likes H-4198 and IMR 4198 better than anything I have tried so far, and I may not mess with much other than that with it unless requested by someone.

Terminals hopefully on Saturday with the 475 B&M Super Short bullets!

Michael

Good to hear you’re dry AND cool! Does sound like you’ve been busy.

Norwegian deer can’t be very big so Sam only needed a little 30 caliber varmint gun.

Heard from Sam and he is safe and sound, will be shooting today I am sure. He has a bunch of deer on quota and will be shooting several as I understand! He will be sending updates to me as he does things. Fun! Says the weather is great too!

Well, I have lost my mind again, and have the lab tore all to hell! Come Monday we are taking the cabinets that were removed from the house (Mommas Project) and I decided to make use of them in the lab to give me a bit better organization in there, also will just look better! Too many things and not enough room! So have completely moved things off the bench and out, rifles and racks moved, desk moved, everything is a hell of a mess! But will soon sort that out the first of the week! First one thing, then another! Crap never ends here!

Michael

Michael

Bet you never argue about shampoo again





SSR

SSR
Yes, that shampoo has cost me a fortune! Best just to keep my big mouth shut from now on!

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
SSR
Yes, that shampoo has cost me a fortune! Best just to keep my big mouth shut from now on!

LOL

Gentlemen, please pay attention.

While I have the greatest respect for the Goddess of Female hair where much of a female's feelings of self worth and beauty reside, this has nothing to do with the goddess of hair. As an aside, beware of the question, "does my hair look all right?"

This is all about the Goddess of female logic which is as follows: "if you can spend $75 million dollars on your toys: ranges with AC, bullets and guns, than I can spend $75 million dollars on important things like the house." This usually accompanied by: "if you loved me then this expenditure would be easy for you."

Please pay close attention to "if" and "then" in these statements.

For those who don't understand women, I direct you to the movie "As Good As It Gets" and the following dialog:

"How do you write women so well?

Melvin Udall: Easy. I think like a man, and (then) I take away reason and accountability."

Hey guys, I'm on the island of Tustna and seeing deer everyday. Have not shot any yet. Did see two nice roe bucks which is mainly what I'm after but didn't shoot one because of property lines were not sure. Would have been OK to shot and have not seen them since. Don't think I needed a 50 B&M for roe deer might not be anything left. These guys over here want non con's bad. I guess we will have to design a B&M SS in a smaller calibe that doesn't mess up meat. #13 solid I think!

Sam

Sam, gonna have to get to work on that trigger! Gotta lot of quota to catch up on!

M

Michael,

Yes my trigger fingr is getting itchy. The other guys have killed 3 small red deer bucks. I'm still waiting on those little roe deer. Saw one nice red stag the day before the season opened. Got wet yesterday but other than that weather has been beautiful here. Did your favorite thing today, went fishing. The big cod got away. Off to my mountain to sit again for several hours.

Sam

Michael,

Got some trigger time in today. 2 down.

Sam

Good Man

cheers, John

Very Excellent! Now 16 to go! HEH.............

Hey, Hornady got the 475 B&M dies correct, despite everything being screwed up? Have a set today, worked perfect! ????? Don't understand how they said there was a problem? Neither Brian or I understand the issue, just that there seems to NOT be an issue with the dies? Good to go. If you understand, you are doing better than we are! Will soon be in the 475 B&M business!

Testing some different powders I came across in the 458 B&M too! ????

Same old Same going on here!

Michael

I thought I would share what has been taking up some of my range time the last few days. As you know my wife is in the re-modeling business in the house, so all the old cabinets came out, new ones going in. Well I figured I could get some use out of those old cabinets, so we installed them in the "Lab" so to speak! And wow, I got in the middle of almost a total re-organization, and still have work to do to keep it straight! But here is the progress so far;














Getting there!

Michael

Very nice Michael!

Looks good!
Just add a bar, a fridge, stove, a lazy boy and a TV and you could live in there when the wife gets angry at you

Michael already has the Lazy boy in there--blue back by the gunsafes--

what a wonderful set-up

SSR

Oh yeah, scratch the lazy boy. Maybe upgrade to a massage one. I've never seen a man cave with such great storage.

Yes, even my stress levels have gone down a notch since I am a bit more organized, and have more space for things! And things, in their place!

I was able to make some new 475 B&Ms today!!!!!!!!!!!! First time, first showing!







I am rather pleased with the 475 B&M, it just looks good to me!

The new B&M Lineup;





The new Super Short Lineup;





Messing around with some photos, I like this!







I think the new 475 B&M is going to be very good! Combined with the proper bullets I think I am going to like it a lot! My stainless gun is still a way out, and that will be the rifle I use for pressure traces. The other rifle I will use just to get some initial loads for the new BBW#13s and North Forks, and to check it out for the new owner! Yep, that's right, Gun #1 has a new owner, but I will not turn loose of the rifle until I have gone over it 110% to make sure all is right and good to go.

Michael

Michael,

Those B&M cartridges look darn good but you have an Oops! Didn’t Sam leave you any .375 caliber CEB bullets for your photographic lineup?

Jim

HEH.... Between Sam and Andy they wiped out my stock of 375s for sure. Much of the CEB BBW#13s that I don't use or those not for the B&Ms I am dropping stock here. Most calibers that I shoot regular I will keep stock and stock for the B&Ms. But like 375 and 409, things like that, I will be leaving to Dan and CEB, and not in stock here. I mostly did those so it would get the caliber and bullets made for the guys to try out without needing to order a large stock of them, and so that it would help Dan out doing a run of them. Once these are gone, then I see no reason for me to keep them here except in special cases.

M

Michael,
I can totally understand the "stock" issue. Looks like Sam or Andy needs to send you one bullet each FN and HP NonCon so you can properly update the photograph though..

Jim

Yes, I think I am going to have to look for a donation for the poor bastard child 375 B&M! HEH......

You know it's a damned chore loading up new dummies! I want to photograph the series with North Fork's as well. The photos above just did not really come out that well. I think I must try again.

Pressure traces most of the day, 458 B&M. Thought I would try some new powders, that I had not run pressures on in the past, in particular with the 450 BBW#13 Solid, and wanted to do the 480 BBW#13 Solid too, but run out of those, instead I did the 450 BBW#13 NonCon, the match for the 480. Some small adjustments will be made when new 480s arrive.

Wanted to try Ramshot Big Game, BL-C2, Ramshot TAC, and H-322. After the first generation it quickly became clear that Big Game and BL-C2 were not going to make it. But H-322 and TAC looked pretty good. 4 generations later, they both did very good, and might become standard, more test work will determine that. I was able to take the 450 BBW#13 Solid with 69/H-322 to 2222 fps at 63490 PSI and with 76/TAC to 2268 fps at 60521 fps! The 450 BBW#13 NonCon with 67/H-322 to 2204 fps at 62995 fps and with 73/TAC to 2216 fps at 59367 fps. Both these powders will work well, and with less compression than the wonderful AA2520 loads I have already. Ramshot TAC looks very very promising. I will be uploading new basic data to the B&M site either today, or tomorrow latest!

In addition, I think both these powders will also do very good in the 475 B&M!

Michael

Send Michael 375 bullets!!!!!!! HA HA now that's funny.

.375. . . . I like mine. . . .makes a damn fine deer cartridge!

Hey the 410 is the best heavy medium that deserves a photo

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Send Michael 375 bullets!!!!!!! HA HA now that's funny.

Yeah I know, but those 2 375 B&M just look out of place. So...how 'bout sending Michael two 375 B&M dummies (one each CEB BBW#13 FN and HP NonCon) when you get back home?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Hey the 410 is the best heavy medium that deserves a photo

Boomy...I believe you or someone with a 410 B&M are going to have to take care of getting Michael a couple of dummies if you want them in the photos. Not quite as much a bastard child as the .375 but close! LOL...

Michael,
Are you sure you didn't screw on some 24" barrels to get those velocities?
Yeah, Yeah, I know, 16.5" bbls for all your rifles.
Max