quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I have a very High Grade Turkish here from Wes. Actually it is his stock he built for his 458 B&M, he sent it along when he sent the other Bastognes, I just have not had time to get it on a rifle and do any photos of it. It's an incredible Turkish I think. Wes also had some special things done to it as well, he likes Case Color and added a nice grip cap and sling studs that are case color.

I tried this Turkish on my 50 B&M and of course the B&Ms from 416 B&M to 50 B&M have the same barrel contour, so any stock built for those will fit all others. So if you have several B&Ms from 416 to 50, then you can easy interchange stocks back and forth.

I took my Bastogne off the 50 B&M and put the Turkish on.
















Let's see, I have two more bastogne blanks and a turkish that is the equal to or better than this one up there right now, hmmmmm, I wonder what I should fit those to???? Maybe one has to go on a 9.3 B&M for sure! Now for the other two?

Michael

Golly, those are nice looking stocks!

Michael:

Just got Pierre van der Walt's new book, African Dangerous Game Cartridges and I had to pass this on to you. In talking about the 9.3X62 he says "There are few things that please the ageing city body and mind as much as a light and handy rifle while the hours and miles of bloody Africa slip by under a merciless sun." Has he been talking to you?

Dave

Wes, Patrick, and crew at Accurate Innovations are doing a really first class job on the rifle stocks. They have a lot of experience with wood and like to do classy stuff these days. The big bore bolt action life is really easy with an AI stock, there are no worries, that chassis holds the recoil in check, does not allow it to transfer to the wood it seems. No cross bolts, no aggravation, and at one time we were bedding still, I don't want that anymore either. Straight stock to rifle, end of story. Hell of a system. Good boys to work with too! I am lucky to have them.

Pierre van der Walt? I am not sure he knows me? But if he is "Light And Handy" he is right up mine and your alley eh? He may understand what this is all about? Wonder what he would think of a 18 inch, overall 38 inch, 8 lb, Wood Stock 416-50 B&M, with BBW#13s or North Forks for the big stuff? He might become "Ruined" on everything else, like me! Who knows? I have "Ruined" many a chap now!



Michael

Michael, what a pity that your rifles and ammunition are not sold in Spain . I'd like to have a MDM 500, no doubt. Where I can find ballistic tables of the cartridges?, Perhaps on the page that is linked in your signature?

Thank you,

Oscar

Hi Oscar

Yes, just click on the B&M link below my name, that will take you to the website, lot's of info there, not only just about B&Ms, but many other things as well that might be of interest to you.

Let me know what you think?

Michael

quote:

Hi Oscar

Yes, just click on the B&M link below my name, that will take you to the website, lot's of info there, not only just about B&Ms, but many other things as well that might be of interest to you.

Let me know what you think?

Michael

Hello Michael, I have left my opinion in the guestbook of your site. As I have said it seems to me the excellent work done by you, made ​​large caliber cartridges with shorter action rifles and manageable which results in a benefit at the time of repeat shots. As I said also in the post is a shame not to have weapons in Spain but I think even if they were available would be beyond my reach as my salary is too low to spend on my whims and my wife could open head a good shot of pan. In addition I also said I have an extra cost for my child must wear hearing aids because it has a pronounced hearing loss and those devices are not cheap. A greeting and good job.

Oscar

All this started about 2 months ago when I sent a donor M70 WSM to Brian at SSK and asked him to build me a 50 B&M "just like Michael's".

They did.




18" barrel, 38" overal, 6-1/2 pounds. The bolt locking lugs were lapped and the feed ramp re-worked.

Actually, this started many years ago when I was diagnosed with BBBG (Big Bore Bolt Rifle) Syndrome. The primary symptom is the irrational, obsessive/compulsive buying and selling of big bore bolt action rifles. There is no cure. As a result I have had many such rifles pass thru my hands over the years. While they were all perfectly serviceable and I killed lots of critters with them, they all suffered, from one degree or another, from some common deficiencies: they were bulky, unwieldly, heavy rifles. Not so with this one.

My initial range session was with 500gr CEB #13 solids. Two loads were used: 66gr H4198 (est. 2130 fps) and 74gr H322 (est. 2130 fps). These are heavily compressed loads. I had to tweak to top of the feed ramp to get them to feed OK. I had no idea what to expect the first time I pulled the trigger. The recoil was stout but not obnoxious, prefectly manageable. If I had to describe it, it was like a 458 Lott with 500's at about 2300fps. Not a lot of muzzle flip, a pretty good bark due to the short barrel (Heh), draws a crowd at the range. The sights were dead on at 25 yards. These are very low pressure loads. The fired cases exhibt no run-out, indicative of a superb chambering job.
The NEC windowed front sight hood was launched into orbit on the first shot and remains lost in the ozone somewhere.

The next range session was with 450gr North Fork
flat nose solids with 71gr H4198 (est. 2275 fps)
and 76gr H322 (est. 2180 fps). Feeding was flawless. These are mildly compressed loads. These loads recoil just enough less than the 500's to make them very pleasant to shoot. The iron sights were still dead on at 25 yards.

Kudos to Michael for bringing his quest to fruition, and for his mentoring and help with all of my questions leading up to this point.

Thanks to Brian and the lads at SSK for building me a very fine rifle.

I am very pleased with my rifle and look forward to taking it across the pond. It really is a nifty little thumper

Maybe for these short barreled DG guns a special 12" quarter rib (full rib for these stubby barrels) needs to be made with front and rear sights attached along with integral scope mounts or tactical rail for a long eye relief scout scope that could be mounted high so the fixed sights are still useable.

Head Trauma, congrats on a beaut little 50.

SSK really know how to put those things together.

Short and light and stout with plenty of punch for anything.

That right there is a go anywhere, take anything gun that you'll not even notice you're carrying.

Happy hunting.

quote:

The NEC windowed front sight hood was launched into orbit on the first shot and remains lost in the ozone somewhere.

Rifle looks good Head Trauma. As I tell everyone, we can talk about them, try to explain, but you really don't know until "Laying Hands On" what it's all about. Once in your hands it all comes to light.

I think after one trip to the field with it, then you will wonder how in the world did I carry that 46 inch long 11 lb beast as long as I did! But, then you will be spoiled from then on, and will want nothing else, but the good thing is, you won't need anything else.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Maybe for these short barreled DG guns a special 12" quarter rib (full rib for these stubby barrels) needs to be made with front and rear sights attached along with integral scope mounts or tactical rail for a long eye relief scout scope that could be mounted high so the fixed sights are still useable.

Boomy

All the first B&M rifles were set up with JD's T'SOB mount just in front of the receiver. Like this pair of 50 B&M Super Shorts.




My thoughts were to have a versatile sighting system set up for nearly everything you could imagine. Forward Scope, Aimpoint or similar, standard scope set up, or those XS mounted Ghost Rings, or combos of all sorts of things.


I did not ever find a forward mount scope that had enough field of view to be worthwhile for DG. So in the end I dropped putting the T'SOB on the guns. Of course nothing wrong with the various red dots that could be mounted forward, I started with the Aimpoint Compacts, but now they are really too large for what I want. They are good, but big. And my eyesight when in brush is not as good as it used to be, and smaller animals, I have a hard time picking them out with only the red dots.

Michael

I have been pestering Wes at Accurate Innovations for a Wood Stock for some of the B&M Super Shorts for some time now. Yesterday morning I spoke with Wes, he sprung it on me, they are ready and set up.

Of course I sent him a 50 B&M Super Short yesterday to get it going. Not sure just yet what sort of wood we will work with for the first one, I am actually leaving that somewhat up to Wes. We did talk about a very nice English he had there. Standard Michael stuff, short ebony tip, and grip cap, shadowline cheek, and so forth. Of course like all AI stocks the aluminum chassis will be installed as well. Yes, it will increase the weight of the Super Shorts, about 1.5 lbs as I calculate. Also the stock will be configured and shortened to match the 16.25 inch barrels, I don't want a stock too long, looks stupid to me! Best of both worlds, wood and ultimate depending on conditions, of course another great attribute of the AI Stock and Aluminum Chassis, even the weather does not effect it as far as movement goes. I had a Claro on one of the 50 B&Ms in Alaska a couple of years ago for 10 days straight, wet and rain continuously every minute of every day! Nothing moved, but after about 3 days of this all the oil washed out, looked pretty bad! Had a little oil at the lodge, oiled the stock up, good as brand new! HEH HEH......

Now the new Super Short stock can also be worked and fitted to any WSSM rifle, I am sure there are some of you with 223 and 25 WSSM rifles out there that might consider a new wood stock! It's worth it I tell you!

Just more FYI........

Michael

Getting ready to actually turn the action I got from you into a .458 and I wanted to run some things by you. I'm more concerned with short than light so my preference is for a heavier rifle. How heavy can these things be made? I probably want to use a McMillan stock as all weather and durable is the order of the day.

Also, has anyone made one of these with a blind magazine? They still hold three down that way, correct?

Hey Ryan

Great! Well you can do like Meplat did, and he specified a heavier barrel contour than I normal spec. This would add all the weight you wanted, believe me. It would put the weight forward, but that is not really an issue. I personally urge you to not do this, but it's your rifle. Meplat did the same thing for his 50 B&M, today he wishes he had not. The recoil really is rather more mild than one thinks.

Blind Magazine? I don't really know, I think Sam has built a couple of his B&Ms on a blind magazine, but he would have to answer that one. We will find out.

Michael

For these 16 and 18" barrels I wonder if it's possible to do a bull barrel with three flat sides with integral pittcany rails machined in. Top for scope or red dot sides for light and laser. Since this is not high capacity auto it should not get too hot.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
For these 16 and 18" barrels I wonder if it's possible to do a bull barrel with three flat sides with integral pittcany rails machined in. Top for scope or red dot sides for light and laser. Since this is not high capacity auto it should not get too hot.

Boomy

I would say that Brian can do about anything. I quit asking "Can You Do This", instead I ask, "What Can't You Do", the list is much shorter!

JD sent down once some wild things they had done with different barrels, spirals, flats, all sorts of wild looking things. T'SOB will fit upside down if you want. I doubt any of that would be an issue.

M

Ryan,

Yes I have built a few of these guns on blind mag stocks. Mine are all on Wal-Mart Special Black Shadow guns. No real issues and you don't have to worry about your ammo spilling out on the ground during a charge.

Sam

I'm not terribly recoil sensitive but somewhere between a light .375 and a heavy .416 Rigby I go from comfortable to having to work for it. A 450 or 500 grain bullet from a 6.5 pound rifle kinda makes me uncomfortable, though I suspect I would learn to handle it. Perhaps I will hollow the stock and put some lead in there, I can always take it back out.

Ryan,

I fired a number of 470gr through 510gr bullets from Michael's AI stocked SS 50 B&M the summer of 2010; it was definately a joy to shoot and very accurate as well. The rifle weighed 7 1/2 lbs unloaded with scope bases but no scope installed.

If you have the correct LOP and comb width/radius your 458 B&M will be a joy to shoot with 500gr bullets even if it only weighs in the 7 1/2 to 8 lb range dry.

7.5 sounds pretty good then.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
7.5 sounds pretty good then.

Michael's AI stocked 50 B&M shown at the top of the page is basically what you'll have (the one i shot just didn't have as nice a piece of wood) - just in .458 caliber. Michael can definately spec your barrel diameter, etc so that you end up in the correct weight range.

I like the AI stocks but I'd beat the hell out of them. This would be a rifle for Alaska, for protection as much as hunting so it'll get beaten against four wheelers and boats and maybe in an airplane if I have spare cash.

Anyone know of a good synthetic stock that is available in a short action and handles recoil well? I'm normally a McMillan guy but comparable is fine.

EDIT: There are a couple of conventional laminated stocks on the B&M website, who makes them and do they come with any caveats?

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I'm not terribly recoil sensitive but somewhere between a light .375 and a heavy .416 Rigby I go from comfortable to having to work for it. A 450 or 500 grain bullet from a 6.5 pound rifle kinda makes me uncomfortable, though I suspect I would learn to handle it. Perhaps I will hollow the stock and put some lead in there, I can always take it back out.

quote:

I like the AI stocks but I'd beat the hell out of them. This would be a rifle for Alaska, for protection as much as hunting so it'll get beaten against four wheelers and boats and maybe in an airplane if I have spare cash.

Anyone know of a good synthetic stock that is available in a short action and handles recoil well? I'm normally a McMillan guy but comparable is fine.

EDIT: There are a couple of conventional laminated stocks on the B&M website, who makes them and do they come with any caveats?

OK I think I can put you on the right path Ryan! Now that I know a little more about the main purpose of your rifle and what you will be doing with it. It's primary is an Alaska Working Gun!

First, I can't remember what rifle you got from me, or what we traded for. Stainless? If stainless we are good to go as is. If not, then black matte Gunkote! 458 B&M. I love NECG barrel band fronts and rears, basic gear, but that is up to you. I think it adds class, and fully functional.

Now, being an Alaskan rifle, and the last word I had is that while Alaska has plenty of bears, wolf, moose and things like that, they come up real short on Elephant, hippo, and buffalo! So we don't need those mighty 450-480 gr or 500 gr bullets! What we need in Alaska are BBW#13s or North Forks from 350 to 400 grs, and that will do ANYTHING Alaska has to dish out. Running anything from 2300 to 2450 fps in 18 inches. Depending on the bullet.

Also, let's not overburden the rifle with length, and weight. Stay with the current B&M contour barrel I have established. You will not be unhappy, if you are, I will pay for the rifle, and keep it myself, and get another one for you to build with a "HEAVY" barrel! You do not need anything longer than 18 inch barrel, and it will serve you well in Africa one day as well. I just come from shooting buffalo and hippo with one of mine with an 18 inch tube, 450s at 2200 and 420s at 2250, and those dead buffalo, dead hippo, dead croc did not complain at all that I might be undergunned! HEH HEH.........

Now, it comes down to stocks! For toting around and beating up, so far that little cheap Winchester Ultimate stock just can't be beat in my mind. It's incredible. Soaks up recoil, great pad on the rear, feels fantastic, 1.5 lbs, light, and I don't know how you could beat the price, $49.95 from CDNN, and if they ever run out, I have a dozen or more of them. I have used them since the beginning of the B&Ms and I never, ever, not once, had any issues with them. This will put the gun at 6.5 lbs total weight, you will be totally amazed at the lack of recoil with the 350-400 gr bullets, very very easy to control. Now, when you bump the loads to 450s and 500s, it gets a little hateful in the fact that the bolt knob hits my trigger finger, knocks the bark of of it every time. The 350-400s do not do that at all.

You are in big luck too on the laminated, I am sure your gun is a New Haven gun, and also from CDNN you can get the laminated stocks very reasonable, not sure on this, but I bet under or around $100. Brian can bed and fit it to your rifle, and this puts you in the 7.5-8 lb category, and you can switch stocks at your leisure and to fit the mission you want to do.

The other great option on the laminated is one from Accurate Innovations with the aluminum chassis installed. I checked on one of these yesterday with the cheekpiece and all the bells and whistles for around $550.00. While it is more expensive than the Winchester stock, it has enough going for it that it is well worth the extra. The money you save on the Ultimate stock, I would get a Gray Laminated from AI. AI has all the B&M dimensions, do not bed or have Brian bed, drop in, drop out. Perfect fit.

Couple of years ago I took a Ultimate stocked stainless 458 B&M to Alaska as backup to the 50 B&M. I had to shoot a bear with the 50 of course. 50 had a wood stock, quick change out before leaving as I busted the Winchester stock that was on it. That 458 B&M was so extreme to carry, after the bear with the 50, my wife hunted for bear and I carried the 458. No bear for her, but wow did I like what I was carrying. At that time, before BBW#13s, I was using a 350 Barnes TSX at 2450 fps, ain't no bear can take none of that.

This is what I would do! This gives you everything you could hope for!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I like the AI stocks but I'd beat the hell out of them. This would be a rifle for Alaska, for protection as much as hunting so it'll get beaten against four wheelers and boats and maybe in an airplane if I have spare cash.

Anyone know of a good synthetic stock that is available in a short action and handles recoil well? I'm normally a McMillan guy but comparable is fine.

EDIT: There are a couple of conventional laminated stocks on the B&M website, who makes them and do they come with any caveats?

Ryan,

The Bell & Carlson with the full aluminum bedding block is available for the M70 wsm action - in fact, it's the same stock that is available on factory M70 Stealth rifle. Its more expensive than the CDNN factory Winchester Ultimate stocks but I think less expensive than McMillans.

CDNN has Coyote Light stocks which are the B&C without the aluminum block. Really nice stocks.

I have the Ultimate stock. I was looking at the Boyds Classic laminate stock. It would need a new pad and some inletting. It's available with a blind magazine too. Rifle is currently a SS .270WSM.

Couple of things I'm particular about, I'd like a blind magazine, probably because I don't have a rifle yet with one and its a hole in my collection, and I will be putting on a straight knob because I don't want to get rapped on the knuckles. I also need an LOP in the 13.75" inch range. I need to measure with a jacket, I'm 14 1/8" in a tee shirt. AI could do those but the price keeps going up with options. I'm still tempted...

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/...er-Model-70-s/20.htm

I'm reading through the whole thing one page at a time. It looks right now like in the end I will have the ultimate stock for when it is in use as a bear gun and an AI stock later for hunting or range sessions. Sighting will probably be an Aimpoint T-1 and XS/NECG backups.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I'm reading through the whole thing one page at a time. It looks right now like in the end I will have the ultimate stock for when it is in use as a bear gun and an AI stock later for hunting or range sessions. Sighting will probably be an Aimpoint T-1 and XS/NECG backups.

Sounds like a good setup to me. Aimpoint T-1? I suspect that might be the small, tiny Aimpoint thing? If so, I concur, those Aimpoint Compacts I have are just too big for todays tech! Good at the time, but not today. These things progress fast!

Can't wait to see it!
Michael

Michael

Any conclusive updates on the Long eye relieve NIKON scope or are you still thrashing it with those B&M's

quote:

Originally posted by ShortandFat:
Michael

Any conclusive updates on the Long eye relieve NIKON scope or are you still thrashing it with those B&M's

An excellent question, especially after only 5 minutes ago mounting that Nikon Slugmaster on a 50 B&M. Headed back to the range to put a few rounds through them, I have been shooting this scope on the 475 B&M, so far, so good. Something like 250 rounds or so. I put a brand new Nikon 1x4 African on the 475 B&M, and the Slugmaster, or whatever they call it, on the 50 B&M. So I am still thrashing them about some, and see if I can bust them!. I had a 1X4 African on the 458 B&M for a long time, a few hundred rounds, then I put it on a 500 MDM of late, and maybe 100 rounds or so. All of them, so far so good?

I wanted a second African, while I was at it I got a new 2X8 Monarch Nikon, have it on a 416 B&M, but have not sighted it in yet, have to load some 416s right now for that.

They have some good points, I really like. The focus on the rear is easy, and excellent. Seems with my piss poor eyes these days I can honestly see better and clearer with the Nikons than I can my Leupolds. Now, that may be just my eyes, and the focus is so easy to work with. For sure, positive mechanics thus far, nice clicks when you move the adjustments, and they pretty much go where they are supposed to go far as I can tell. Movement is good, and better than the newer VX3s, which I don't like.

Time will tell I suppose, if they hold up and don't bust, I am changing the scopes I use on the B&Ms. Even if they do bust, I want to see how they bust, and if POI stays the same or that busts too? We will see.

Michael

Well back from the range, playing with the 475 and 50 B&M! I did not break anything, YET! I sighted both scopes in, shot 50 rounds with the 475 B&M and 20 rounds in the 50 B&M, all is well! I had at least 10 rounds of OVER MAX PRESSURE LOADS that I have been saving in 50 B&M just for this occasion. 500 BBW#13 at 2195 fps, in the 18 inch gun. That load was running around 68000 PSI, with the new IMR 4198! Change in powder kegs back first of the year or so, sometime anyway. It ate it up, and its gone now! No issues, and broke nothing. I worked at it too, slamming the bolt back and to, doing my best! LOL............

Michael

Well, you know the 2 extra extractors I busted this week right? Well, that was not entirely my fault, have to blame some of that on Dieter! That soft ass brass. Sam and I thought maybe it was too long, but I went back and checked, I had trimmed all of it down below spec actually. Of course, it might be stretching too? This is new, unfired Horneber in the 500 MDM. Trying to fire form some of it. Was low velocity, 500 at 2100 fps. Yesterday I took a few apart, took a dipper full of RL 10X out of them, and tried 5 rounds. Dropped to around 1900 fps and did just fine. So I am pulling everything I had loaded, taking a dipper full out, load'em up again, shoot them and see what happens!

I have to tell you truthfully. Of all the B&Ms and related, the 500 MDM and the OTHER brass has give me the most trouble of them all! Using standard 375 Rem Ultra brass, the 500 MDM just is not a real problematic cartridge. But use the Quality and the Horneber brass, and you have issues to work with then. If one just hangs tight with RUM brass, no real problems. But if one has to try and have head stamped brass, we got issues. The 500 MDM is a dandy cartridge, but I look at it as being one of those "professional handloader" cartridges. Most would be much better off with the 50 B&M, it's just plain easy if you want .500 caliber, and something that does the job nicely. I had Andrews rifle marked 375 RUM/500 MDM. I think this should solve any issues he has running around Africa. I dare not turn him loose with other brass. Not when lives depend on it.

With the Quality brass, this last run, same as the 500 MDM run, the other B&Ms have been zero problems, not even one. I have contracted with Dieter for 9.3 and 475 brass, specified 65000 PSI brass, and have my fingers crossed!

The Standard B&Ms, 50, 475, 458, 416, 375, 9.3 are excellent on the platforms they are designed for, and the bullets designed for them. Hard to beat in a small rifle, easy and short to carry. Right now, I am rather pleased with the 475 B&M. These are the ones for serious every day work. 500 MDM for the pro handloaders.

Michael

Michael

OH and IBT--- I sometimes forget what I tell Brian to do, he has notes I send with the rifle to go by however. This NEW 9.3 B&M Stainless has a 19 inch barrel on it! I forgot that I split the difference between 18-20 to give it a try, I was worried about this rat caliber being able to burn the powder in 18???? HEH........

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I'm reading through the whole thing one page at a time. It looks right now like in the end I will have the ultimate stock for when it is in use as a bear gun and an AI stock later for hunting or range sessions. Sighting will probably be an Aimpoint T-1 and XS/NECG backups.

Sounds like a good setup to me. Aimpoint T-1? I suspect that might be the small, tiny Aimpoint thing? If so, I concur, those Aimpoint Compacts I have are just too big for todays tech! Good at the time, but not today. These things progress fast!

Can't wait to see it!
Michael

Thats the one. I have two on M4s and they are great sights. I just replaced my first battery after 3 years, 3 months on setting 7 and 8.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
OH and IBT--- I sometimes forget what I tell Brian to do, he has notes I send with the rifle to go by however. This NEW 9.3 B&M Stainless has a 19 inch barrel on it! I forgot that I split the difference between 18-20 to give it a try, I was worried about this rat caliber being able to burn the powder in 18???? HEH........

Michael

Which brings up a question, has anyone messed around with a Gibbs type, front ignition technique for the B&M cartridges?

There was a small article on it in one of the Cratridges of the World editions. I think I have the Gibbs publication in a pdf file if anyone is interested in a bit of an experiment, "GIBBS' CARTRIDGES and Front Ignition Loading Technique." As I recall, Elmer Keith also was a fan of this technique. Did a bit of work on it during WWII.

The front ignition technique at least insures that the powder doesn't go flying down the barrel while igniting. There seems to be some benefit in consistant ignition as the CotW article showed very little variation of velocities between cartridges of the same loading.

Ryan

Excellent. Many of the early B&M rifles I set up, T'SOB in front of the receiver, Leupold QRW bases, and the XS Ghost Ring on/off sight. Do about anything, except having irons and ghost ring in place, with the scope in place! Daryl took his Ghost ring, mounted it more forward so he could have it all in place. One of my early 50 B&Ms I took the Ghost Ring, put it on the front of the T'SOB, very close to the front sight, there is probably only about 10-11 inches in between. But guess what, it's great to work with, especially 25 yds and in, which is about all I can see irons these days anyway.

After several of those guns I quit with the Ghost Rings and just went with the standard NECG barrel mounted rear as standard fare on a Michael gun, of course with the NECG front barrel bands.

I took an Aimpoint to Tanzania in 2005 on a little lever gun. As long as I was in the open it worked excellent for me, I could see better then too! But when things were in the brush I had a really hard time making things out and seeing clearly.



IBT, have you lost your mind? Front ignition, no I have not. And no, it sounds complicated so I wont' be.

HEH............

So what about this 19 inch barrel on the new 9.3? Hmmmmm?

I am going to build two new guns. One is another 475 B&M, will be a gunkote matte finish, and I might make a 19 inch barrel on that rifle? The other is going to be a gunkote 50 B&M, but it will stay at 18 inches. Both will have these incredible matching XXX or better Claros mated to them that Wes at AI has.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

IBT, have you lost your mind? Front ignition, no I have not. And no, it sounds complicated so I wont' be.

HEH............

So what about this 19 inch barrel on the new 9.3? Hmmmmm?

Michael

Seems to me that whether I've lost my mind and whether front ignition is too complicated are two different issues.

Front ignition is provided by threading the flash hole of a cartridge and then screwing in a 1/8 inch diameter threaded flash tube that is about 2/3 the length of the powder holding part of the shell. Either 22 gagae or 24 gage has been used. The primer is then inserted as usual and the shell loaded as usual. The purpose of the flash tube is to carry the primer flash forward to ignite the powder that lies in the area immediately in front of the flash tube and behind the bullet FIRST. The resulting combustion then propagates through the powder down into the cartridge holding the powder in the cartridge and preveting it from blowing down the barrel behind the bullet as the powder combusts. Elmer Keith said that you can tell the difference in the temperature of an ejected shell by feel between normal loading and front ignition loading. He took that to mean the combustion was taking place within the cartridge. I have NOT done the experiment my self. I'm told that some bench rest cartridges use this technique, but I have not seen any for myself.

My purpose for suggesting looking at this method of loading is the concern over complete combustion of the powder before the bullet leaves an 18 inch barrel. This technique seems to insure complete combustion within the cartridge. Whether that combustion takes place before the bullet leaves the barrel is another question.

As for losing my mind, I haven't noticed it missing lately.

quote:

Front ignition is provided by threading the flash hole of a cartridge and then screwing in a 1/8 inch diameter threaded flash tube that is about 2/3 the length of the powder holding part of the shell. Either 22 gauge or 24 gauge has been used. The primer is then inserted as usual and the shell loaded as usual. The purpose of the flash tube is to carry the primer flash forward to ignite the powder that lies in the area immediately in front of the flash tube and behind the bullet FIRST. The resulting combustion then propagates through the powder down into the cartridge holding the powder in the cartridge and preventing it from blowing down the barrel behind the bullet as the powder combusts. Elmer Keith said that you can tell the difference in the temperature of an ejected shell by feel between normal loading and front ignition loading. He took that to mean the combustion was taking place within the cartridge. I have NOT done the experiment myself. I'm told that some bench rest cartridges use this technique, but I have not seen any for myself.

My purpose for suggesting looking at this method of loading is the concern over complete combustion of the powder before the bullet leaves an 18 inch barrel. This technique seems to insure complete combustion within the cartridge. Whether that combustion takes place before the bullet leaves the barrel is another question.

Isn’t this somewhat mute with the wide variety of burn rate gunpowder and reliable primers – especially magnum primers – that we have available today vis-à-vis the powders and primers available when “front ignition” was thought up?

Michael
What about a 22" pencil thin barrel for the 9,3 B&M to get top velocity?

quote:

Isn’t this somewhat mute with the wide variety of burn rate gunpowder and reliable primers – especially magnum primers – that we have available today vis-à-vis the powders and primers available when “front ignition” was thought up?

Good point. I'm not sure. Given some of the reported erosion in the throat of some gun/cartridge combinations, some combustion must be taking place outside the cartridge in some cases. Certainly not as much as was happening in the days of cordite powders.