quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
The lugs are the same height as the right
lug on Enfield .120. and there is 3 of them.
Calculated shear rating is 42,000 lbs for the
3 and with 4th lug I put on bolt handle, that I set up to be a bearing lug also, adds another
15,000 lbs. I do that on all my guns, like
the two 458 HEs on my Ruger77 and Enfield(both have identical lugs),
the two lugs are rated 33,000 lbs shear and
third bearing lug I add runs it up to
53,000 lbs.(33,000 plus 20,000). I tested a
200k load in the Ruger, not intentionally,
and it stayed together, Bulged barrel but
still using action with another barrel.

So basically for one of us normal, non-'smithing fellas, we are held to 33,000 psi loads since we can't add the extra bearing lugs?

I applaud your ingenuity, BTW!!!

Thank you very much Ed for that tutorial!!! If I keep this up, I'm going to get even more "bitten."

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
It is the only way to go, as good as getting done in by jealous husband.And only reason
I added extra bearing lugs, is when I
started testing and developing my cases they're
unknown entities and in load testing I got
to have every margin of safety I can put
into the guns..And in the case of the Savage
if I can find someone to do thickwall reciever,
will be able to use extra rating.Ed.

You're a wise man, Ed!

ED: my e-mail to you was returned
possible overflow on youre end?????????
let me know
thx

Ed- Does the original Savage barrel have a double extractor cut? It looks like that in the picture. Why?-Rob

Ed- Got it. 1917 enfield bolt design. This was exactly the reason why I gave up on using a Mcmillan action. Can you show pics of this bolt mod up close?-Rob

Can't see it very well from the picture. Ed-How did you attach the rim flange to the bolt?-Rob

Ed- Yup, I got it. I had exactly the same concerns with using a mcmillan action. I was too chicken to weld on my bolt. I considered machining in a slot D&T ing it and making a Rim control flange.-Rob

Ed- Yup, you did it the right way. Given the value of a savage action, I'd probably also take the risk. Not so on a $500 Mcmillan bolt. Anyway, tha rim control issue is a big oner on a bolt action and now I understand how you solved it. Well Done!-Rob

Ed
Good to hear that it looks non-cancerous.
I can probably find a day here and there to come over and form cases if you need me to.

Hay Robgunbuilder myself and a couple dealer freinds are coming out to the shot show. I would really like to look at your 12GA from hell it something could be arranged.

Y'all might be interested in THIS!!!

Rob,

Looks great. Have you had any time to shoot it more. Are you planning to put a break on it? I may have one of the breaks I made for the 600 OK left. You would need to bore out the ID but that's easy. On second thought you might need to open up the threads so you have enough wall left on the barrel again thats not too difficult to do. If you can use it let me know.

How are the rims I made holding up? As soon as I get some time I will make you some out of stainless but if you need some more in the mean time I do have them.

I need to finish scailing up the falling block drawings to finish the 12 ga hf I have started but I really like the looks of the Borchard you used. How do you like it? any comments good or bad?

Ed if only I didn't need to work each day I could have us a good strong bolt action with an .850 bolt and 4.5" (or longer) mag box in a few months. Too bad MRC won't do the .850 bolt.

Good to see you guys have been busy while I've been away. Keep it up.

A question for you wonderfully crazy guys. What are the SDs of a 750 and 1000 gr 12 Ga. bullets?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Here is pic of 3 different slugs in
cases, and a case with original rim off
and threaded for 12ga rim pieces you see in
picture.Ed.

Wow, a pumpkin ball loaded in brass. Too cool. How is the accuracy with that going down a rifled barrel since the bullet is rifled already?

Paper patch? that would be real old school.

I have a NEF Pardner Tracker II single barrel, which is a ten gauge barrel blank bored to 12 ga. rifled.

The barrel is 1.212 at the chamber, 1.072 at the muzzle, 24" long. Gun weighs 11.5 lbs and has proved deadly on deer.

I'm afraid the action would not stand up to your pressures, though.

I'd sure like to try a "reduced load" in it, though!

Y'all are ate up with it!

I wrote NEF some time ago asking what the alloy was on my 20 ga Ultra Slug Hunter. I forget exactly what it is but as i recall, it is more commonly used on muzzle loaders. As thick as those barrels are, I would still guess they are as strong as the action.

I bought a Lee Classic press but got really mad trying to get the adapter out so I could use my sizing die. I was getting about 1300 fps from a 900 grain paper patched lead bullet but might have finally broken the scope as I could not put it on paper at range during my last shoot.

Haven't shot the thing in some time, guess I should get it back out and finish my load development.

Glad to see things are going well for the 12GaFH

The 12 GaFH short will work in an Encore 12 Ga magnum barrel with some reaming.. Just cut a .50BMG case off at the shoulder and expand to .726. It will hold 200 gr of Rl-25 and a 750 gr slug. You will see about 2000fps with this load and the encore will take it. At least mine did. I shot it from a tire. looks like recoil is pretty severe though!-Rob

Ed,

Sorry, I've been working too much!

I will get some pics of the NEF Pardner Tracker II single barrel. It cost me $79 at WalMart ten years ago in a clearance sale. It is the only gun I have that is not wearing a Leupold scope. It has a $35 Simmons shotgun scope on it, bought at the same sale. The whole thing has never moved zero in the ten years I've had it. It usually gets 2-3 shots a year: one before Ohio's one week shotgun season, and one or two at deer. It's never missed a shot in ten years and 15 or so deer. Shoots cloverleafs at 50 yards, 1.5 inches at 100 yards using the old-style 3" magnum Remington Copper Solids (1-5/16 oz slug.)

The butt will hold about 2 lbs of lead in the original hole. This seems like a place where a mercury recoil reducer might be appropriate.

The gun is chambered for a 3" magnum 12 gauge, so I reckon I'd need a chamber reamer before I could use your brass.

I have not cast the chamber, so I do not know how the factory chamber is setup as to freebore, leade etc.

I understand you think the barrel would hold up, what about the action?

Thanks,

I didn't know if any of you noticed in my .775 Rigby thread but you can find several more types of 12 GA projectiles HERE.

They even sell a "Dangerous Game Slug!!!"

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:

Woodsracer--That's good site..
Ed

I'm glad that I could contribute!!!

Ed- Nice pics. i've been getting a whole lot of e-mail on the 12GaFH short. The encore just needs to be depth reamed. I think keeping it to 18 KPSI is a real good idea. I may take a er-shaw 12 ga barrel and weld on a custom encore lug and then crank it up.-Rob

Ed,

Here's some pics...











The top rifle is a M70 Safari Classic with a CutRifle barrel by Dan Pedersen. (Integral quarter rib and the whole works!)

The bottom "implement" is the NEF, marked " Pardner Tracker II PLUS", probably a 1996 model or earlier.
barrel at the muzzle 1.072", barrel at the chamber 1.212, weighs roughly 11.5 lbs. I think that weight includes some lead shot I added to the butt just after I got it.

I do not know the alloy of the barrel. The shotgun scope mounts very solidly to the barrel using a Weaver-Style rail. The overall "implement" is short and handy in the brush. The excessive muzzle weight makes it very steady offhand. I would not want to carry it for long distances over rough terrain.

As you can tell I am not a photographer, and I share my couch with my yellow lab!

So, if one were to want to use the 210 with original barrel, same chamber, and the predator slug, what sort of load would you use to shoot safely in the given conditions?

Who did you purchase the barrel from? I wonder if Mcmillan would inlet one of their stocks for that action if I were to send the barreled action to em. Hell, get an F990 installed too.

OK you guys have me. I want one where can i get one and some ammo

ok what is robs gun look like and how much does this project cost

I realy like the look of the sxs what velocity will you be looking at on a rig like that

thanks let me know what you find out

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Here is picture of the heavy Spanish double
from the site Karl sent me URL for.On site it says they are alloy barrels.Maybe could be
used with just lengthening chamber or shortening case as Rob has been experimenting with. We are checking on specs for barrel size
and maybe possibility.Ed

Now there's a 12 GA FH (long or short) that I would be interested in!!! The only problem is that it is a SMOOTHBORE!!!

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
I shot a buchshot load a little faster than
1st three, probably over 2000fps. Used a
piece of playdough over shot in the shotcup.Pattern still big due to rifling.
Shot went through 3/4 inch tempered hardboard
desktop, and one shot went through a shelf
end of steel 1/8 thick that hardboard was
setting on.Rob need info on reamer maker.Looked at Encore somemore.Yes it should hold about
what Mine does, only thing is it needs a long heavy barrel and one of those pistolgrip stocks being sold on ebay, with some weight added
into the stock. If mine it would over 20 lbs.
So I am telling those who try Encore and can get it set up with these items for strength
and weight to about 16-20 lbs will do ok.Ed.

DANG, WHAT A TURKEY LOAD!!! The only problem is that there would be more LEAD to eat than meat!!!

It would be very interesting to see if Mike Belm would be willing to take my ER Shaw 12 ga barrel blank and TIG weld on a Encore Lug. Chamber that for the 12 Ga FH and go from there. A even simplier idea with the short is back to the Greener SS action with the ER shaw barrel.-Rob

quote:

The cases are annealed at the shoulder and neck, then fireformed with 65 grs of Bulleseye to the full case dimensions.-Rob

Dang-the reference to the fireforming load-65 gr of Bullseye, makes me wince.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:

I then moved to WW 748. 315 grs hit 3008 fps. -Rob

Isn't there 7000 grs of powder in a pound?
If so, you're getting roughly 22 cartridges per pound! HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Ed,
I was trying to get my head around the dimensions of your powerhouses. One pound of powder per box (20 carts)!!! Holy crap!

When did horsepower become cheap?-Rob

So when are ya gonna start production on these things all ready?



Yes, it's me from ar15.com...

Come on man!
You could found a company with this thing!

Don't hold back on us!

No luck- Maybe I should ask Savage,Ha Hah.
If I can find someone to make heavy, thick
action to put Savage bolt,bolt carrier,and
trigger setup on, then maybe they could
just add heavy barrels and stocks.

Easier would be if that big Spanish double,
the E213 would work, then just ream chamber,
a job anyone can do.Or one like it...Ed