Unseasonably warm and drizzly in paradise today.
Lordy! I now see why there are so many different "improved" versions of the 400 Whelen! Page 8!!!

The cartridge shown here that is bigger at neck-2 (0.437" diameter) than it is at neck-1 (0.432" diameter) nevertheless chambers with minimal resistance
in my 400 Whelen-1923 Ruger Hawkeye:


(TYPO ON ABOVE: Quality Cartridge brass length before sizing and trimming is 2.558" not 2.588".)

Neck-2 diameter of chamber is supposed to be 0.437", and shoulder diameter of chamber is supposed to be 0.458".
Those are the minimums for chamber of the 400 Whelen-1923.
A -0.000/+0.001" tolerance on top of that is customary for the chamber reamer diameters,
and some wobble of the reamer may happen too.

I blame Rusty McGee, Gunsmith for getting me into this 400 Whelen adventure.
He wanted one, so I did too.

Well, I am going to see this through to perfection.

First there was the PT&G reamer: Made by Dave Kiff for Michael Petrov, based on chamber casting of a 1923 400 Whelen by G&H, the second so-chambered rifle ever made,
owned by Michael Petrov.
Then CH4D supposedly had reloading die set made to match this reamer.
Rusty nabbed that one off the shelf.
It has now been found to have incorrect shoulder angle and has been sent back to CH4D for replacement.
I got another one off the shelf at CH4D that was dubbed "400 Whelen JGS" that was supposedly the same, only 0.010" shorter in headspace.
Rusty McGee says this does indeed have the proper shouder angle of 23 degrees for the 400 Whelen-1923.

I have used this die set and the Kiff-Petrov headspace gage to set the die:



The brass above is the R-P 35 Whelen fire-formed to 400 Whelen, and loaded with Barnes TSX .411/300-grainer.

I also have a Hornady 41 RemMag handgun sizing die for use as neck sizer-crimper.



I use the Kiff-Petrov headspace gage to set the 400 Whelen-JGS dies to proper headspace, and all is good:



Here is the Quality Cartridge Brass with the defective Internal Donut at end of brass.
You can see the donut at the end of the brass neck, producing a "wasp-waist neck":



The fire-forming load with inverted pistol bullet in R-P "short" brass added to stack.
That illustrates how much throat is available in the PTG-Kiff-Petrov reamer for the 400 Whelen-1923:



Finally, an illustration using the full-length brass, 2.490" maximum brass length:

The TSX bullet can be crimped on the second cannelure with current 400 Whelen-1923 throat: AHR brass with no distal-donut in neck, on bottom below.

The TSX bullet could be crimped on the third cannelure with proposed 400 Whelen-2013 throat (Illustrative COL shown using the QC distal-donut brass).

It's been rough, finding donuts at the end of one sample of Quality Cartridge 400 Whelen cylindrical brass.
Quality Cartridge needed better Quality Control on that batch.
Hopefully it won't happen again.
There. I am done grieving over it.

Peter Cardona did reply that the source of his 400 Whelen blank-basic brass is a proprietary secret,
and his latest 400 Whelen headstamped cylindrical brass won't be ready by the end of the month, rather sometime after that ...

Need a good batch of brass before I get a reamer and dies to my liking, for desired free-bore, and reliable neck tension.
But it seems I need to get some RCBS dies since they are supposed to be made to match the Kiff-Petrov reamer,
with which my current 400 Whelen was chambered.

However, the CH4D "400 Whelen-JGS" dies do seem to have proper shoulder and neck for making shootable ammo in the meantime, as long as the headspace is set.

I wonder if I can dig up the reamer drawing of the "400 Whelen-JGS"???

Eight pages on this moribund round? Unbelievable.

Life is too short.

The .400 Whelen is deader than Elvis.

I received this from a forum member yesterday. I also have a chamber drawing but have not have time to look it over yet. I'm sure how much work I want cause myself .

Michael Robinson,
Why don't you tell us how you really FEEL about the 400 Whelen? Ho hum.
Speaking of Elvis ...
Elvis died on my second wedding anniversary.
The news media celebration of his death anniversary every year helps me remember mine, so I am very grateful to Elvis.
Remembering Elvis ...
I cannot say that I actually spotted Elvis at a Whimpie's Burger franchise in Botswana in 2001,
nor at a KFC franchise in the Yukon in 1985,
But I heard rumors that he had just passed through each location only hours before I was there.
"Hell! I Was There!" as Elmer said, not Elvis.

And speaking of Elmer:

Michael Petrov,

Thanks for the letter from Elmer.
I did not know that he had given some extra free-bore to his 400 Whelen, but not surprised.
Great minds think alike. I want only an extra 1/8-th inch on mine.

Here is a January 1936 THE AMERICAN RIFLEMAN article about the 400 Whelen, by Elmer Keith,thanks to Gordon.
A reference to the 1924 article that your photos came from is mentioned too, or another 400 Whelen article from the spring of 1924:

I have emailed JGS to request the drawing of the reamer they offer:
"400 Whelen" they call it.
CH4D calls the dies they make to match that reamer "400 Whelen JGS."
Should be interesting, since CH4D said it was same as the "400 Whelen-1923 (Petrov/PTG), just .010" shorter in headspace.
"Show me."
Playing phone tag and email tag with RCBS also.

Don't look MR, might hurt your eyes, or offend your delicate sensibilities.

For aficionados only.

Michael and RIP,

Thanks for those posts. The letter and article are great finds. I always had an interest in the 400 Whelen and Michael's research helped push me over the edge to build one. I have enjoyed my 400 more than any rifle I have ever had. Thanks again for the great posts. Keep them coming.

Mart

Mart,

Thanks, you ol' 400 Whelen aficionado you.

We need no justification other than it's just cool.

BTW,
Has anyone else seen any case mouth donuts on Quality Cartridge 400 Whelen brass?
That was the first I have heard of it, brought to us in a sample of three pieces of brass from member gordief.

It must be a rare problem. Something went out of kilter at the end of the basic brass supplier's batch run?

Peter Cardona won't reveal who makes the basic brass. Peter did not make the donut, but some of the defective brass got stamped 400 Whelen.
At least 3 pieces.
Surely the new batch in February 2013 (?) will have any donut mouths culled out of it.
The rest of the case sample were right-on for primer pockets, rim, and head specs.
Nice.

Captech International/Jamison won't be making any 30-06 blank basic brass this year. That one will be in 2014, reportedly.
Also, reportedly, that brass will have a wall thickness at the mouth of 0.0085" to 0.0090" at whatever length beyond 2.5" they make it.
That will be fine if the rest of the case is of the usual high quality from Captech.

Custom brass from Captech:
$700 for the custom headstamp.
10,000-piece minimum run.
The purchaser must take any overrun +/- 10%.
They require the price of the headstamp tooling plus raw materials as a down payment to begin the run.
The balance must be paid before they will headstamp the brass.

Peter Cardona has been much easier on us. Little guys have gotten custom brass from QC in a run as small as 300 pieces for only about 1K,
a few years ago.

About the JGS reamer drawing for the 400 Whelen-JGS:

JGS is gone to Shot Show this week, back next week.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Eight pages on this moribund round? Unbelievable.

Life is too short.

The .400 Whelen is deader than Elvis.

The archetypal 400 Whelen aficionado (posterboy pictured below) wishes ballistic dullard Michael Robinson to get a life, despite his genius IQ:
There's got to be better things for him to do with himself than waste his time pissing into the bowl of 400 Whelen Cheerios of Efficiency.



Gotta love that Weatherby-eyebrow scar on the 400 Whelen convert, eh?

Threw this together today for Ron based upon the dimensions he’s posted in the thread – head dimensions are based upon using current SAAMI specifications for the 30-06 Springfield and drawing within Microsoft Visio at a 0.1”:1” scale to identify the proper dimensions at the bolt face/rim and body diameters…

Enjoy…


Images corrected 20130121

Jim,
I enjoyed that a lot!
Will continue to do so indefinitely!
".400 Whelen 2013 -- Designed by Ron Berry -- SAAMI Format"
A ten-thousandths of an inch here and there and a few seconds and minutes of angle here and there ... your software is precise!

Will also be looking for the 400 Whelen-JGS reamer drawing, to see how they handled the neck and free-bore,
and whether the shoulder is really 23 degrees and .458" diameter and headspaced 0.010" shorter than the 400 Whelen-1923 of Petrov and PTG,
and overall length of chamber for what brass length, etc.

The 400 Whelen-2013 will use the same headspace gage as the 400 Whelen-1923, as made up by Petrov-PTG in 2003.
Thanks, Jim.

Sure wish you guys would talk about something else. I have my surgery in 2 weeks and based on last time it will be 9 months+ before they let me shoot anything of any size. All these discussion remind me how much I love to shoot my 400 (even if it isn't a Whelen )

Paul,

If it would help I can go to the range Monday and shoot mine and tell you about it.

Mart

Paul
I'd be happy to come shoot your 400 PDK for ya, you can watch!
Best I can do....

On another note yesterday I got an email back from RCBS and they said their 400 Whelen Dies are built to the Petrov-PTG reamer, (I sent them a copy and they confirmed).
However their dies are not cheap! I could buy a barrel for what their dies cost.

By the way I am completely addicted to this thread! But I'm not alone am I....

Thats it I've had enough I'm ordering the barrel now for a Springfield I've had in waiting for this project. .400 will soon be in my inventory.

Snellstrom,

Welcome to the brotherhood of the 400 Whelen. You are about to become one of those rare and discerning shooters whom others only hope to be.

As far as the dies go I have been happy with my CH4D dies and they are only about $90. I was able to buy a lot of components for the difference in price between the CH4D and RCBS dies. I sent some fired cases to CH4D and they provided me the correct dies.

We had our big gun show today. I showed a 400 Whelen round to a couple of gentlemen today and think I have one of them hooked on the idea. Does this make me an enabler?

Mart

Mart you are not just an enabler but also an antagonist.
I just ordered the barrel a couple minutes ago.
#5 contour, 1-14 twist.
I've been planning this for years and started some Whelen threads and lurked on the others, now in a few months I may have something to add.
Like I said I have a couple of 1903 Springfields that are candidates for this build.
The general idea is to make it look like an older build with the Lyman banded ramp front sight, peep sight and a detachable scope, 2 position M70 style safety, Timney trigger.
I have all the parts and now the barrel on the way.
I'm excited

quote:

Paul
I'd be happy to come shoot your 400 PDK for ya, you can watch!
Best I can do....

Can't believe we still have connected for coffee. Need to do it after I get this darn heart valve replaced.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Paul
I'd be happy to come shoot your 400 PDK for ya, you can watch!
Best I can do....

Can't believe we still have connected for coffee. Need to do it after I get this darn heart valve replaced.

I know, it's my fault we haven't connected.
This last year I've been really busy. My gal and I split in June so last summer I was getting my new residence livable for me and my sons, plus I did a ton of hunting this last fall!
As soon as you are feeling up to it please let me know and we'll get that cup of coffee.

Ramrod340,
Sorry to hear you need a heart valve replacement.
But!!! You are certainly on the right track with the 400 PDK,
'cause you can load it down to the gentleness of the 400 Whelen, and get back to shooting ASAP.
Even if, worst case, you get a mechanical valve instead of a pig valve, and have to be on rat poison blood thinner at 2.5 to 3.5 INR level,
you can still handle the gentle giant ballistics and low recoil of the 400 Whelen with ease,
without unsightly bruising. With the 400 PDK you are set for any critter on earth,
as soon as the chest crack heals.

Best Regards,
Ron

quote:

Even if, worst case, you get a mechanical valve instead of a pig valve, and have to be on rat poison blood thinner at 2.5 to 3.5 INR level

When it was replaced 8 years ago I became part cow to stay off the rat poison. However instead of the 15-20 years I was supposed to get out of it I got 8. So 3 different DRs have told me I don't want a third surgery so the second will be mechanical.

I have some wonderful plinking loads using pistol bullets so that should let me get back into it with light recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,
I enjoyed that a lot!
Will continue to do so indefinitely!
".400 Whelen 2013 -- Designed by Ron Berry -- SAAMI Format"
A ten-thousandths of an inch here and there and a few seconds and minutes of angle here and there ... your software is precise!

Will also be looking for the 400 Whelen-JGS reamer drawing, to see how they handled the neck and free-bore,
and whether the shoulder is really 23 degrees and .458" diameter and headspaced 0.010" shorter than the 400 Whelen-1923 of Petrov and PTG,
and overall length of chamber for what brass length, etc.

The 400 Whelen-2013 will use the same headspace gage as the 400 Whelen-1923, as made up by Petrov-PTG in 2003.
Thanks, Jim.

You’re quite welcome.

A few things to ponder upon…
- - - Depending upon which two of the four measurement points that are used; i.e., at the R1/Cartridge Head (Rim) Diameter [at the bolt-face/rim intersection], at the P1/Underhead Diameter [the extractor angle/cartridge body intersection], at the 0.200” measurement, or at the P2 Shoulder Diameter [the cartridge body/shoulder angle intersection]. Use any two and the angle will set the other two…
- - - Derivative cartridges of the 30-06 Springfield need to comport with the SAAMI specifications of the 30-06 Springfield in the R1 and P1 chamber areas else the brass manufactured to the SAAMI specifications may not work in the derivative cartridge’s chamber or may only work with issues…
- - - Zero issues with modifying the data to comport with the .400 Whelen-1923, as made up by Petrov-PT&G 2003 headspace gauges as the headspace gauges basically set the shoulder angle/position at a specified length from the bolt-face…

Anyway it is my belief – backup by nothing more than my unsupported belief – that the United States at the turn of the 20th century, just recently having departed from the military use of rimmed cartridges into the work of rimless cartridges, focused chamber wise upon the R1 and P2 diameters while focusing on the P1 and P2 diameters for the cartridge when designing the 30-06 Springfield.

And yes I do understand that the R1, P1, and P2 are references typically associated with CIP specifications while the 0.200” dimension is most closely associated with SAAMI specifications…

ramrod340,
Very sorry to hear of your heart problems and the second surgery being needed. Hopefully if a 3rd is ever needed (way down the road) we’ll have progressed medically sufficiently that it’d last for the balance of your life…

Ramrod340,
Well, with an INR target of 3.0, just see how you bruise. Might be no issue.

Capoward,
1906 was a very good year, so were 1923 and 2003. 2013 is headed in the right direction so far.
If Riflecrank Internationale Permanente needs technical assistance, we know where to find it.
Lessee if this scanner makes your nice drawings bigger:

Yep, it worked!

Just thinking about all the 400 Whelen "Improved" versions,
such as the .400 Brown Whelen that John Kronfeld wrote about, Fred Zeglin's .411 Hawk, etc.

The shoulder diameter of some of those reamers is 0.461".
That is another .003" of shoulder over the standard 400 Whelen-1923/2003-Petrov/PTG.
Add the extra .003" to be had at Neck-1,
and the shoulder of the 400 Whelen becomes HUGE!!!

Geez Ron, why didn’t you say you wanted a larger version? I’d have just swapped out the picture with the original-larger images - And its done!

And – No I didn’t create the .400 Whelen 2013 version – I did nothing more than bring the ‘R1’ & ‘P1’ dimensions into current 30-06 Springfield and 280 Ackley Improved SAAMI dimension compliance, used original Whelen & Petrov/PT&G ‘P2’ compliance, and used your cartridge neck and chamber freebore to generate the QD SAAMI format drawings!

quote:

Just thinking about all the 400 Whelen "Improved" versions,
such as the .400 Brown Whelen that John Kronfeld wrote about, Fred Zeglin's .411 Hawk, etc.

The shoulder diameter of some of those reamers is 0.461".
That is another .003" of shoulder over the standard 400 Whelen-1923/2003-Petrov/PTG.

Michael has gone an extremely long way in establishing the original 400 Whelen specifications, which had they been properly published years ago it would likely have eliminated the 400 Brown-Whelen, the 411 Hawk, the 400 Whelen Improved, etc…

Of course the true 400 Whelen shoulder is at an improved specification, and the 23º shoulder is much better than the 17º30’ shoulder of the 30-06 Springfield although it is still slightly less than the 28º to 30º shoulder angle that Ackley identified as ‘being the optimum angle range’, so there’s very little that can truly be improved upon. Other than in the freebore area to accommodate the current standardized 3.34”SAAMI specification for the original 30-06 Springfield cartridge (as well as the SAAMI ’06 derivatives), and again to bring the R1 and P1 chamber dimensions into current SAAMI ’06 & derivative conformity (something that was not a consideration in early 1920’s when Whelen designed the cartridge. Of course I added in your extra freebore but that could easily be accommodated with a correctly dimensioned throating reamer.

Jim,
I replaced my scanned images with your enlarged version,
since they are just so much nicer.

Thanks for the work. Helps in the process of refining the idea.

Why did Ackley use 40-degree shoulders on all his AI wildcats? I dunno.

History of the 400 Whelen-1923-Petrov/PTG in Kentucky:

Rusty McGee got interested in doing one of those for himself. I wanted one too.

There was one Petrov/PTG reamer on the shelf at PTG when Rusty called.
He nabbed it and ordered the headspace gage to go with it. He soon had both in hand.

Rusty then called CH4D about reloading dies, and nabbed a couple of sets off the shelf: He got the standard "400 Whelen" supposedly for Petrov/PTG version.
I got the JGS version, supposedly same as Petrov/PTG version just .010" shorter headspace.
Too easy to be true?

We are still investigating reamer, die, and brass relationships. Will post when anymore info is available,
for 400 Whelen Aficionados.

Guys, put me in the dummy division, but in the first drawing you show the body diameter behind the shoulder as .4547, while the shoulder is .4566. 'Splain to this dummy how I don't unnerstan.

Max,
I do not understand that myself.
I have been politely ignoring the looking of this gift horse in the mouth.
But since you have done so, let us hear from Jim.
No good deed goes unpunished.

I have ordered some RCBS dies.
If I can make the Petrov-PTG reamer, Qual-Cart brass, and RCBS dies work satisfactorily,
I will not change anything.
Otherwise I will get a new reamer from Dave Manson, and new dies from Hornady Custom, for the "400 Whelen-2013."

Dan Pedersen has a 400 Whelen Improved reamer with 0.461" shoulder diameter:
"400 Whelen Imp (.461shoulder)"
Classic Barrel and Gun Works
Recommended by Michael Robinson.
http://www.cutrifle.com/reamers.html

The 400 Whelen reamer from JGS is apparently a close copy of the Petrov/PTG reamer:



So question what you have from CH4D.
Bad poop has emanated from there.
The PTG reamer and the JGS reamer for the "400 Whelen" have the same specs.
CH4D has different types of 400 Whelen dies?
Well, I am going to give the RCBS dies a shot and see if Qual Cart brass is good on the latest batch.
Or else ...

Max,
That was my fault... Sometimes the QD program doesn't automatically re-compute that specific data point and I didn't verify that it updated correctly. Sorry.

Ron,
You should have mentioned it earlier! Gift horse or not...

Now for the group...
I was putting around last night searching for 30-06 derivative cartridges...and identified that the 270 Winchester and 280 Remington are actually full-length derivatives of the original 30-03 cartridge at 65mm whereas the 30-06 is a shorter derivative at 63.5mm case length. So why not generate a 30-03 variant of the 400 Whelen? The longer neck would but the bullet nose out in the 3.34"-3.36" COAL depending upon bullet weight/length while the seated bullet length, except for the 400gr bullets, is typically contained within the case neck resulting in a slight increase in powder capacity.

Basically this could be called the 40-03 Improved by just blowing the shoulder out to the Whelen shoulder diameter leaving a longer neck...or lengthen the case body length to match the shoulder diameter and neck length of the 400 Whelen... Or run an even longer body and shorter neck and you'd have the current 400 PDK... Cylinder brass is available to make it so...

So what do ya'll think?

(And yes I'm now going out to grab my laptop to correct the body diameter behind the shoulder.)

Jim,
I have no thoughts on the longer-cased 400 Whelen.
Drawing: I knew what happened, just waiting for someone else to catch it.
Now we punish your good deed.
I am not settled myself yet on specific neck and throat dimensions, anyway.

Look at what CH4D offers for 400 Whelen: One "400 Whelen" and 4 different "Improved" versions.
The "Improved " versions are specified with different shoulder angles: 24, 28, 30, and 40 degrees.
No shoulder angle specified on the "unimproved" version: 17.5 or 23 degrees?

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies/caliber-list?page=30

No "400 Whelen JGS" specified there, though I have that set of CH4D dies, so marked by CH4D.
There is a little daylight between the shell holder and the die bottom when I screw it down tight on the headspace gage.
I will try the same with the RCBS dies and see if it is the same.

Rusty McGee is getting a new set of CH4D dies, sent back his first set, as he thinks both the shoulder angle and shoulder diameter on those "400 Whelen" dies are wrong.

I think we need a good batch of 400 Whelen brass from Quality Cartridge before finalizing any thoughts on whether a new reamer or set of dies spec-ed differently are needed.
Apparently some have plenty of good QC brass from past batches, but at least 3 bad pieces slipped through on one of those batches.
They must have had some thick necks on the 30-06 basic back around 1920.
Maybe 0.009" wall thickness in 400 Whelen case mouth is ideal.
That is about what we get with fire-forming 35 Whelen brass from RP.
I have plenty of that, but it is a little short in length.

Pretty darn close specifications between the two prints though the JGS in 0.0005” longer in the neck chamfer; i.e., the neck to freebore transition; I do like the amount of information annotated on the JGS finish chamber reamer print. I’d sure like to know what original 10/13/1987 data they changed in the 06/08/2009 update to the print!

Max/Ron,
Ok I corrected the QD drawings…chastising accepted…

All ya’ll,
Since I don’t own one – looks like you guys have the problem of identifying exactly which reloading die manufacturer has the exact correct die set for your chamber for absolute heart cuddles. Fortunately it also appears that reloading dies cut for either the .400 Whelen-JGS or the .400 Whelen-Petrov will correctly size your brass for either chamber - that’s a darn good thing!

quote:

No "400 Whelen JGS" specified there, though I have that set of CH4D dies, so marked by CH4D.

Ron,
Ask CH4D for a copy of the reamer or die print that was used to generate the .400 Whelen-JGS dies… It’ll be interesting to determine if they relate to the original reamer print or the updated reamer print.

Ya’ll have fun… I’m going to have another cup of coffee…

quote:

So why not generate a 30-03 variant of the 400 Whelen? The longer neck would but the bullet nose out in the 3.34"-3.36" COAL depending upon bullet weight/length while the seated bullet length, except for the 400gr bullets, is typically contained within the case neck resulting in a slight increase in powder capacity.

Just my 2 cents but to me you leave the 400 Whelen the way it was designed. If you want to change it then go full wildcat and be done with it. Unless you are going to jump to a 2.6" or 2.65" case why jack with it.

Don't know what you were using for a throat. Since this isn't a 400yd target rifle I set mine up with a 1 caliber jump. I think it allows the heavy bullest to get a running start. Even dropping back to 300s or pistol bullets I have no accuracy issues.

Jim,
The 400 Whelen JGS dies from CH4D that I have used to size the cylindrical brass do make a shoulder that is bigger in diameter and of more acute angle than the standard 30-06.

There is less than 0.010" gap between the die bottom and the shell holder when I put the go gage into the shell holder and screw the FL sizing die down onto it.

Maybe I did not screw hard enough?
Any who, it seems to be very close to the 400 Whelen of Petrov-PTG (2003) and the identical 400 Whelen-JGS of 2006 spec.

Agree with ramrod340, but I am still collecting components to make the Petrov-PTG/JGS version work.
I am also tending to want to make my free-bore longer than the 0.188" of the original.
Now thinking 0.300" of parallel-sided free-bore just to have a little more than enough to do what I want to do with a specific, modern, all-purpose bullet and COL/box length.
Waste not case capacity, want not case capacity,
especially when there is box length to spare!

Now we know there are two identical spec reamers out there, two different companies making the proper specs.

RIP,

To head down a little different trail, have you tried fire forming with Cream of Wheat? I fire formed a bunch of LC Match brass and some commercial 30-06 when I first was getting the 400 up and running. They come out a touch shorter than the Qual Cart but very usable. I did anneal the cases prior to fire forming.

I used 16.4 grains of Bullseye, filled the case up with COW, jammed a crayon in the neck and broke it off. One pull of the trigger and I had a case. I got some strange looks at the range shooting with no target. The range master even had to check on me. He seemed a bit perplexed but left me alone. I did some with corn meal also but the cases seemed to form better with COW.

Like you, I used a 41 magnum die to size the necks. I put a lock collar on the press ram to act as a stop to prevent crushing the shoulder or setting it back. I used the 41 magnum die until my 400 Whelen dies showed up. It worked pretty well and I made quite a few of my first test loads that way.

Mart

quote:

I used 16.4 grains of Bullseye, filled the case up with COW, jammed a crayon in the neck and broke it off. One pull of the trigger and I had a case. I got some strange looks at the range shooting with no target. The range master even had to check on me. He seemed a bit perplexed but left me alone. I did some with corn meal also but the cases seemed to form better with COW.

Relying on the extractor to provide your headspacing?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

So why not generate a 30-03 variant of the 400 Whelen? The longer neck would but the bullet nose out in the 3.34"-3.36" COAL depending upon bullet weight/length while the seated bullet length, except for the 400gr bullets, is typically contained within the case neck resulting in a slight increase in powder capacity.

Just my 2 cents but to me you leave the 400 Whelen the way it was designed. If you want to change it then go full wildcat and be done with it. Unless you are going to jump to a 2.6" or 2.65" case why jack with it.

Paul,

I was just teasing Ron… Ron wants a longer freebore so that he can seat the bullets longer and take full advantage of the 3.42” magazine length of his M77 Ruger. The extra length of the 30-03 case would have consumed most of his extra magazine capacity while using the standard 400 Whelen freebore.

Anyway that’s all…