Yeah, has anyone found a vendor and price for barrels yet?

I can't believe that I'm actually considering this......!!

http://www.pac-nor.com/barrels/

i had a good experience with pac-nor with my 470

quote:

Originally posted by KMuleinAK:

Same here, start with the CZ550/416 Rigby - this new one can be the "ugly, fat sister" to my 500A2.

Will contact my local gun pusher tonight , see if he can find me one for a fair price - will probably hear "what, another cz in rigby????" - heck, maybe a "shot once, dropped once, for sale" is out there looking for a new home and a high protein diet w/ steroids

Has someone already be contacted pertaining to barrels ?

No, I am not going to use the "T" word....

KMule

ugly fat sister just dont piss her off!

who else besides pac-nor makes 577 barrels???

Pacnor only lists one barrel in 577/.585",
a 9 groove, 1-18" (don't do it)....

I don't know contour spec for 577 but looks like a #8 straight taper would work - I would go with 24" length, maybe 25" at most but that would make this a heavy rifle. Would like to build this right at 10 pounds, no scope for me, no thank you.

Will it be possible to do 10#'s ?



Pacnor lists the chrome moly at $230 - my local gun plumber prefers Douglas, I will contact him.

And then we have the new guys at McGowen in Montana.

details....

Nice to see the enthusiasm. The reason I had
the pic of the case so quick was I had my long one done and shooting last summer. So Iknew
what to do. With all the swages on hand
to start.And the right guide on case spinner.
Guns-Of course the easy way is to find
gun already set up for 505 Gibbs, and rebarrel.
Or- don't cring- 378-416-460Wea and rebarrel.
It has single stack that will feed.
AS for twist, I have 1 to 22 but 2500 is
starting loads for me. If you get Pacnor
and add 3 lbs to the butt for 13 lb gun,
and run 2300 750 bullet will stabilize.
I know some want more spin to aid penetration
but if you can dump all 4.5 tons
of energy in the critter.Should work with
thicker jacket bullets on game needing it.Ed
My two favorite gun people are Elmer and
Ross, and I think Ross's standing among gun
nuts is the reason the 585 caliber has so
much interest in bolt gun form. Ed

Nor would I be interested in a 20-inch barrel. I would thing right around 23 or 24-inches......

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemp...=3390&CompanyId=1246

kreiger has them

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Nor would I be interested in a 20-inch barrel. I would thing right around 23 or 24-inches......

i think a 24" barrel will aid in muzzle flip some... 10.5 lbs no scope maybe a red dot holographic sight like the aimpoint for shotguns.

Dan Pederson makes them also, he did
mine. If you have heavy 505, Delta
Gunshop in WA might be able to rebore.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
who else besides pac-nor makes 577 barrels???

Kreiger. 1-20" and 1-30" twists.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Nice to see the enthusiasm. The reason I had
the pic of the case so quick was I had my long one done and shooting last summer. So Iknew
what to do. With all the swages on hand
to start.And the right guide on case spinner.
Guns-Of course the easy way is to find
gun already set up for 505 Gibbs, and rebarrel.
Or- don't cring- 378-416-460Wea and rebarrel.
It has single stack that will feed.
AS for twist, I have 1 to 22 but 2500 is
starting loads for me. If you get Pacnor
and add 3 lbs to the butt for 13 lb gun,
and run 2300 750 bullet will stabilize.
I know some want more spin to aid penetration
but if you can dump all 4.5 tons
of energy in the critter.Should work with
thicker jacket bullets on game needing it.Ed
My two favorite gun people are Elmer and
Ross, and I think Ross's standing among gun
nuts is the reason the 585 caliber has so
much interest in bolt gun form. Ed

seems most barrels will have the 22" twist...are their one in 14 or 12 twist barrels out there for those who like the gun to torque out of their hands?

granted a 505 gun would be the easiest but they can be pricey but if that does not matter hey...cool.

a 750 grain bullet (prefferably a solid or THICK jacketed bullet) going 2,450 fps generates 9,999 ft lbs of energy
step forward while firing should get you to 10,000 ft lbs. but at that dia and speed the bullet needs to be a good'n. these barnes x bullets should be perfect for snoot to tooter end to end to end to end penetration...try to line up 2 animals perfectly



i think this cart will bring 585 bolt shooting to the masses that want them...

this will be fun for those who like something different and still somewhat of a classic since it can replicate the 577 nitro

it for shure is not a vanilla gun...its more like rocky road with cherries served to you in a waffle cone by a cutie redhead winking at you at the end of her shift.

quote:

it for shure is not a vanilla gun...its more like rocky road with cherries served to you in a waffle cone by a cutie redhead winking at you at the end of her shift.

Boomie - I know it is Saturday night and all that....but you're hitting the bourbon a bit early, eh ?

I am just now leaving work....going the the local "box store" gun emporium to stare at CZ rifles....

http://www.cabelas.com/information/cabelasfieldguides/F...77NitroExpress..html

Being Kicked By A Mule - The .577 Nitro Express. by Mike Schoby


I can't say I am a big bore fanatic, thinking that one must use a .375 for whitetails, but I like large bores, and heavy bullets all the same. To most Americans this means rifles in the .300 Win. Mag. class, which puts the venerable .375 H&H Mag. somewhere in the 'earth-shaking cannon' realm. But when I speak of big bores, I think of truly BIG BORES. The various .40 calibers don't even make the cut. Elmer Keith was astutely right when he said "they {.40 caliber rifles} make a great woman or kid's rifle on safari." To make the big bore cut, something over .50 caliber actually pushing .60 is preferable.

The illustrious Professional Hunter Mark Sullivan (of the Black Death video series fame), most concisely summed up what a big bore rifle is, "I often chuckle when clients tell me that a .375 H&H Magnum is a big gun. Believe me, a big gun is when you can pack your lunch and desert into the chambers and still have room for a soda."

I want something, that can stop a charging elephant in mid-stride (a constant threat in western Nebraska). Something that has enough foot pounds of energy to impress a Mac truck and cartridges big enough that it takes a separate porter to carry them. Why would someone want such a rifle, you may ask? Like the question, "Why do you hunt?" the answer should be self-evident and if you have to ask, no amount of explaining will ever suffice.

Recently, I got to test the big bore rifle of my dreams, a turn of the century Westley Richards 3" .577 Nitro Express double rifle. Firing a 750-grain solid or expanding bullet, this monster delivered an astounding 7,000-foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. According to Craig Boddington, (author of the book Safari Rifles) these rifles have but one purpose; "to stop the largest and most dangerous game, whether it is inbound, outbound or standing still." More then sheer power, the big Nitro Express doubles are a symbol of adventure, of a different time and a different breed of men. Rendered down to their essence, they are Africa.



This rifle, aside from caliber, was a work to behold. It exemplified the best of English craftsmanship, grace and lines. While it weighed 15 pounds, it balanced and handled like a fine shotgun. Coming up light to the shoulder, and swinging effectively, one could practically imagine a charging buffalo piling up at your feet

Power
This is always the first question in everyone's mind and they don't wait long in asking, "How powerful is it?" The term "power" when discussing a cartridge is a delicate subject. There are several ways of measuring this innocuous term, but there is no perfect method to determine how it stacks up against game, or often against other cartridges. However there are several "standard" guidelines.

The first is foot pound of energy. Energy is not a good test of how a cartridge performs on game, but it is a common comparison between different rounds. For example, a standard 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet has around 2,900 foot pounds at the muzzle. A .375 H&H Magnum with a 300 grain bullet has around 4,265 foot pounds. The .577 Nitro Express with a 750-grain bullet has just a shade over 7,000. Impressive indeed.

There are several other means of measuring "power" in terms of how it translates to game performance. The most widely recognized method (note, I didn't say accurate or scientific, just recognized) is the Taylor Knock-Out Values (Developed by John "Pondoro" Taylor, the famous ivory hunter).

To qualify the .577 even further, compare some of these values against other big game cartridges. The same 30-06, 180 grain load mentioned above has a Taylor KO value of 21, while the .375 weighs-in at 41 (although John Taylor himself admitted the .375 was much more impressive on game then this number indicates), and the .577 blows the rest away with an impressive 128.



Recoil
The next question, after "how powerful is it?" is "how much does it kick?" For the non-technical layman, the easy answer is, A LOT! Like a 12ga? No, a lot more. It is hard to describe, it doesn't dislocate your shoulder, knock you down or make you bleed (Ok, occasionally you may experience a tad bit of bleeding from your knuckles slamming into the trigger guard), but it does kick and leaves most shooters with a sense of awe and a little bit of bruising. The nice thing about shooting a big Nitro gun is that everything else pales in comparison. Your .338 or .375 will feel very, very manageable afterwards.

To put a technical spin on it, your average 8 pound 30-06 produces roughly 15 foot pounds of rearward driven energy, an average weight .375 produces a little over 30 foot pounds, and a .577 that weighs 15 pounds, slams back with 70 foot pounds of energy. To put this into perspective, a bullet fired from .22 LR has around 80 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards!

The only saving grace of the big Nitros is that very few makers tried to make a "stalking weight" rifle out of them. 15 pounds is the norm and some are even heavier with the addition of mercury or lead recoil reduction system in the stock. This makes for a hard day of carrying (very few people can carry a rifle of this weight very far- which explains their limited numbers, even in the heyday of ivory hunting), but it does help tame the recoil.



Ammo
Loaded ammo, brass and bullets are all available and by many estimates there is more sold in a greater diversity then during the height of the Ivory Hunting Age. Prices range from a low of around 7 bucks a pop, if you reload, to over $20.00 if you buy factory loaded fodder. For this reason, range time with this rifle, per hour, is about as expensive as flying a Dehavilland Beaver.

Accuracy
Extreme accuracy is not the hallmark of a large bore double rifle, but that is not what they are designed for. They were designed for up-close and personal work, where one shot is good and an instant second shot is even better. If you need a gun to prevent, or stop, a critter from chewing on your leg or trampling you into a dusty, pink pulp a big bore double is ideal.

I shot this gun offhand (the only way to shoot a big bore rifle) at a target positioned at 50 yards. My first shot admittedly was about 10 inches low, due to a chronic flinch I develop when faced with the prospect of an imminent pounding. However, after the shock and anticipation wore off, I realized the gun punches a bit, but was not unmanageable and placed several subsequent shots within a four-inch circle surrounding the bullseye - more then good enough for dangerous game work.

Cost
The old adage of "If you have to ask, then you can't afford one" is especially true when discussing vintage Nitro Express double rifles. Trust me, I know; I had to ask. While there are some cheaper doubles made by American or continental European manufacturers, they will still cost as much, if not more, then a standard family sedan, if you want a good working English double in a truly large Nitro caliber (like the .577) expect to spend as much as a new full sized, crew cab pickup. If you want to go hog wild and get a Deluxe or Royal grade by one of the "best" makers complete with the "best" engraving and all the accessories, be prepared to spend the equivalent of your house.

And ask yourself, why the heck not? I mean what good is a house at stopping a charging buffalo? And without the hassle of that pesky mortgage payment, you will be free to take off to Africa and become the ivory hunter of your childhood dreams. Just imagine roaming the savanna with a group of porters and trackers and a best grade double, slung muzzle-forward over your shoulder. I know, I know, I am wasting my breath, the argument didn't work with my significant other either.

quote:

Originally posted by KMuleinAK:

quote:

it for shure is not a vanilla gun...its more like rocky road with cherries served to you in a waffle cone by a cutie redhead winking at you at the end of her shift.

Boomie - I know it is Saturday night and all that....but you're hitting the bourbon a bit early, eh ?

I am just now leaving work....going the the local "box store" gun emporium to stare at CZ rifles....

goodonya!

no bourbon yet...all i have left in the cupboard is 4 fingers of some cheap wild turkey.

some bookers would be kinda ymmy right now

thanks for the laughs - as soon as I get done counting these last few beans, off to the gun store for a short time.

But wait a minute.....15 pounds is fine for a double but a bit piggish for a bolt gun, especially if shooting 750@2050fps - IMHO - I like to carry my rifle myself

10 - 11 max - and no muzzle break

noooooo muzzle break!

10.5 lbs
24" barrel
stainless

here is a good pic for scale...

577 n.e. 416 rigby and 223

the 585 belted is the same length but obviously looks like the other pic with the 30-06 case next to it.

That's a hell-of-a-lot of cartridge! 10.5-lbs indeed! Gotta be able to carry it, and NO MUZZLE BREAKS ALLOWED!

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm

figure about 120 lbs of recoil?

that should be the top recoil for most but not impossible for carrying and shooting. most here dont use "gun bearers". it is not anything to sneeze at to have a gun with a belly full of pachyderm medicine for about $1,500

it would be neet to have 1600 fps "plinking" and "hog devestation" loads generating about 65 ft lbs of recoil and that would be great for cast bullets.

speaking of: I gotta see if I have a spare set of blocks for my Magma Master Caster. A 650gr plinker CB would be just the thing to add to the winter casting list.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
speaking of: I gotta see if I have a spare set of blocks for my Magma Master Caster. A 650gr plinker CB would be just the thing to add to the winter casting list.

Rich
DRSS

no 750?

"...plinking bullet..." IE, one to enjoy a 20-round box of.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
"...plinking bullet..." IE, one to enjoy a 20-round box of.

Rich
DRSS

plinkers and "pig dispensers"

Its been quite entertaining reading this. Its a bit like jerry springer and dr. phil all rolled into one.

Anyhow in case you are looking for economical projectiles for 'plinking at beer cans' bertram has recently started producing projeciles (cup and core design) and has two available in 577 (585). Weights are traditional 650 & 750 gr. Locally they are sold for AUD 110 per 100. Not sure how this compares with your alternatives.

I have recently used his 510 gr 440 gr FN and they are very stoutly constructed and have been very accurate.

Joe

Wow JFE...that aint bad!

20 to 22", 18 twist, or there abouts, and 10-11# .. look at the 9# 600 OK...

now, since its a gibbs case, you'll need a bauska bbk02/ultramag action, or a enfield, or marginally a CZ dues to bolt diameter

danny P told me that the 510wells was fine at 20", and this should be about the same, case to bore

jeffe

thanks el jeffe!

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!! Did I mention that one of my two 505 Gibbs bolt guns came today?

The CZ is here, an even ten pounds empty, but with muzzle brake installed. Rings and a decent scope should take it to about 11 3/4lbs...eh? It has a mercury recoil reducer in the butt, probably a good thing. I expect to stick the 577BME barrel on the enfield in about a week to ten days. I bought a 550 barrel from Jeffe, and the other rifle is on its way with brass, dies, and a few bullets from Custom505Gibbs (?), the guy with Bell's old 275 Rigby. I also have my 475 Gibbs barrel, so the Octoberfest, aka the Shoot-out at Sand Hollow; could feature three or four of them, plus the CZ 416 Rigby. I need to figure out whether to keep the 510KX operating or put the 475 on it for the bash.

475, 505, 550 and the big brother the 577BME, and we all owe Neal Shirley a tremendous debt of gratitude for the brass.



Rich
DRSS
facilitator

glad ya got the donor action

Back when CZ first introduced the 550 in 505 gibbs, someone posted a photo of 505 the bolt face side by side with a 416 rigby bolt face - can anyone find that photo and post it again ?

Thanks
KMule

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=940104383#940104383

here is rips 505 and the thread...not the one you are looking for but i think rich has both...do you rich???

kreiger will make your bbl in any twist you want up to 36 inches. I bout a 1in 8.25 twist 338 36 in 2in dia blank from them. it came in a crate instead of a box.

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
kreiger will make your bbl in any twist you want up to 36 inches. I bout a 1in 8.25 twist 338 36 in 2in dia blank from them. it came in a crate instead of a box.

kreiger tech said $75 extra for a faster twist than their one in 20 and 30 twist...only drawback is it would take months longer for something custom.

pacnor has 1 in 18 twist and it takes 8 weeks. i like pacnor.

I will get the battery recharged for the digital camera and take some pictures this afternoon. I'll send them to Boomie for publication.

Rich
DRSS

Thanks for the pix Boomie - I am still on the hunt for a used CZ550/416Rigby to build on, no luck yet finding one at a screaming price.

Hopefully, after hunting season there will be something locally for sale at a good price.

Thanks
KMule

barrel orders are 8 weeks for pac nor so maybe a barrel order to start and when it arrives that screaming deal will be about on time. good luck!

I delivered reamer and case print and 2
585s to Manson today. Visited a little,
Also delivered 500 Max/RUM print and 2
cases. Cases from Rich to make 585s
just got here.Ed.

PLEASE -- Order Your barrels through
www.custombrassandbullets.com

They will be no more than the same price as pacnor
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
PLEASE -- Order Your barrels through
www.custombrassandbullets.com

They will be no more than the same price as pacnor
jeffe