The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 577 Belted Magnum ExpressGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I made my long belted case Enfield for less than 500 bucks. Took a while waiting on the industry for stuff. That's the terrible deal with Rob's case. It took so long getting cases, etc, so many people dropped out. And Rob likes the satisfaction of doing something great, and things just cut the number of guns back. A damn shame, and now AHR is doing it but most can't afford it. Best damn 600 and guys got impatient and dropped out. Real rotten shame. And it's not their fault, there is only so much time, to do things. With this 585 we may have it licked.I have gun here to develope loads of various velocities, 585 barrels can be found, and Enfields, CZs, Rugers,even Rem and Savage. We have everyone always talkng about Nyatis but at same time talking about crappy brass, wrong size reamers, etc, and here we have a chance to get it right. With brass in hand beginning, for a modest price for guns and brass.And no months/years of wait..Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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to keep this thread on topic and off me... what do you see as the ideal rifle set up for this? rich... the wisner drop box, would it make room for 4 down on the cz550??? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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awesome points ed...  this is a hellova bang per buck gun and if you want you can spend more to make it fancy if that is your thing...hell who dont like a well made gun with nice checkering, wood, scrolling ect...but if you want you can get in for cheap. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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That's important thing. I wouldn't have helped with this if there wasn't brass done from a manufacturer, and a way for economical guns to be done. I wouldn't have wanted to start and have people drop out(And it is not their fault), mainly due to the bottlenecks in the industry. I've had to stop or change projects because of that- an old guy, only so much time..Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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ed...god does not subtract the time spent wildcatting, hunting and shooting  i think you will live to be 150 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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this has the possibility to go from idea to boom in the shortest time possible thanks to those involvedand good fortune. the idea is only 9 days old! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Charles, do I now? Am I not on the contrary ilustrating that the astronauts does not make the space shuttles? Evere hear one of them tell the engineers to be buffoons for never having been in space? What is recoil? is it not mathematics? Is it not bullet weight/velocity/weight of gun? If a .577 NE has a reputation of modest recoil compared to the T-rex, do you really need to shoot one to say that a cartridge with simmilar ballistics to the .577 NE also should have the same modest recoil? As for Bommie as a beggar of cases, he himself has helped me out with a whole case of brand new cases for my project out of his own pocket. And unlike others in here, he is not shitting money. And that impressed me more than the persons who order every new cartridge in duplicate with two safaries for each. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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There is a difference between doers and posters that many people seem to see here, but if you do not so be it. It is nice for you to defend BS. I have said my piece after biting my tongue and will just ignore him from now on. It is pointless for me to argue with you about it -- I have no issue with you. I do not know who around here excretes money and has two of every cartridge. Personally, I worked hard in school and at my job to save money for some hunts that were not high budget, and paid for my guns the same way. I asked a lot of questions on AR to learn, and I try to give advice based on what I personally know, or to be clear when what I post is based on someone else's word. Real-world experience is what I value here. If you have some personal problem with me I am sorry. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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live and let live, help and be helped... not everyone will like me and that is ok this is not about me...this is about an idea that now is no longer just an idea. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Gentlemen, start your engines!!!  That is the Gang of Five you see...the 585 conspirators! Boomstick...the creative mind at work Ed Hubel...the creative machinist who took Boomie's idea and made the prototypes Neal Shirley...the alchemist who is turning scrap brass into solid gold with Ed's assistance without Neal and this 5000 pieces of cylindrical Gibbs brass this could not happen Dave Manson who is making this set of reamers (rough and finish, to allow for making a file and trim die and a full 3-die reloading die set and a chambering reamer) and me; and I thank the Lord that I can be a (very) small part of making this all come together If all goes according to the timelines I have been given by Ed and Dave, the two reamer set will be in my possession in 30 days or a bit less; and I will have twenty-five pieces of formed brass ready to go into a file and trim die and reloading dies and be shot. I have a connection for 577 bullets, and we will be shooting the rifle two weeks after I get the reamers!!! It doesn't get much better than this gentlemen. regards, Rich DRSS 585 facilitator | |||
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  the conspirators and the dancing bannana (me) 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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well done!!! i cant be happier!!! 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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So that I can claim to have at least on post that is "on topic" in this thread  , I do want to say congrats on your progress to date.I think its a pretty darn good idea and should get some interest. MHO is that its ultimate success with be availability of brass, but if Jamison or someone can pick it up and do brass on a continued commercial basis, you've probably got something there. Of course, I can't help but find it curiously ironic and funny when people argue vehemently about the necessity of a new commercial cart (375 Ruger for example  ) and then invest this kind of time and energy into another wildcat that isn't really filling any kind of gap.  (you knew I wouldn't be able to resist )But, seriously, to all you folks involved (including you Boomie!), congrats on your progress so far and all the best for seeing this to fruition. Heck, if I lived on your side of the 49th (and didn't still owe money for my trip to Africa last year, and for my latest big bore - a 500 A2), I'd probably find a way to take part. "Economical big-bore" always has a nice ring to it. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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thanks canuck!  (  savoring compliment)577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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well we have 5,000 pieces thanks to ed so figure 200 pieces a gun thats 25 guns before we need a run of new brass...quick! be one of the first 25!!! but with ed making the brass and the design of the case you probably could do a lifetime of shooting with 100 pieces 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I am very "OK" if AHR or anyone else picks up on this case as a chambering...at least the customers will have a steady supply of brass. Dave Manson will have the reamer specs so gunsmiths can build these and order brass from Neal (just gotta say God Bless'im again!) and go shooting. Rich DRSS  | |||
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Ah hell, now you've got me interested......damnit, I've gotta finsh the Ackley first! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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them 577 bullets should be a quisinart on dem piggies... make sure you shoot a hard cast flat nose or a solid if you want to keep the pig in one piece. goodonya whitworth....got a cz550? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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hey, you're in great shape...give me two months to get mine up and running; and you can have the actual data to peruse. Just think, equivalent performance to the 577 NE or the T-Rex in an RSM or Enfield action. Rich DRSS | |||
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Canuck, au contraire mon ami! Boomstick's Big Boy 585 is filling a very real need...post in the classifieds that you would like to buy some 585 Nyati or T-Rex brass and let me know how many offers you get...like ZERO! We have over 4000 basic cases in stock, and Ed will swage the belts for you on receipt of your order. This cartridge will, at the same low pressures, replicate the performance of THE classic Elephant DR's in 577 NE. It will also launch those same 750gr bullets as fast as the Nyati or T-Rex...your own recoil tolerance factored in. IIRC, DR's chambered for the 577NE 3" start at about $50,000 and go up. Rapidly! This 585 can be handled quite nicely in an Enfield or RSM, for those on a budget...like $1000-1500. Rich DRSS | |||
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 Dammit guys, at first I was just coasting and wondering if this idea had legs...then my mind went back to shooting diesel_dude's 577 3" on a ruger #1 - whoa nellie, was that a wild ride  So let me get this straight - can this be built on a CZ550 / 416 Rigby action or is the ruger RSM or Enfield required ? For a "budget" build ? I don't NEED anything more than my 500A2  But this could be a hoot lobing those big bullets (emphasis on cast lead for my budget) Thanks for the enthusiasm - I will read the entire thread later to gather details. Can someone post a "budget" build with approximate prices ? KMule Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand. | |||
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Kmule, Assume you already have an enfield or RSM or a CZ in 416 Rigby. Add a barrel and the gunsmith's charges to open up the frame rails and make it feed, then chamber it. Next question? Let's say $1000 lowball, to $1500, starting with the CZ and selling that barrel. Rich DRSS Ask me in eight weeks when I have mine up and shooting. | |||
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Rich, I don't appreciate you pointing out how easy the conversion is...... This is very bad...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I have an enfield with the .532" bolt face for standard belted magnums - assume some opening of the bolt face is required to allow the gibbs case to fit. This enfield action is kind of sloppy, meaning the bolt when forward / closed moves a fair amount in the rear receiver ring  - does a spec exist for allowable movement ?This would be my low buck candidate; if it is too loose, might opt for buying a CZ action and build from there but then I would need a stock. Interesting idea Thinking Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand. | |||
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KMule, let me make things worse for you... I bought an enfield and a CZ, both in 505 Gibbs. My gunsmith will have easy access, like asking me if he can borrow them; to actually measure the amount of work necessary to make the Gibbs case feed. The belt Ed Hubel is swaging on cases is the same diameter as the original Gibbs case. Soooo, instead of a cut and try, and cut some more and try, ad nauseum...he can take the measurements in his shop and know that the rifle will require minimum hand fitting to function properly with one pass thru the milling machine. The Rigby box will fit, and the enfield box can have the pins drilled out, the U-shaped end spacers flipped 180-degrees and tig-ed and end up with a 3.67" box. Make an end spacer .130" longer and have a 3.8" magazine box. Numrich has magnum length magazine boxes for sale...cheap. They also have P-14 bolts for sale...cheap. Anything else I can do to make things better...? There goes your weekend hoss. Rich DRSS | |||
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Not everyone will get 200 cases, some will get a 100. Now if 25 guns get built in a year, from the time Rich fires the first one, it will take off and 2nd year will see a hundred built. With that geometric increase there will be enough money for a cartridge run. You know there ain't a 1000 TREXs out there I heard less than 200, in how many years. Example of what industry problems cause. Point I'm making is actions are all around, and so will the brass be and if first 25 gives a good report on being able to get it going without long delays at a good prices, that will lead to the enthusiasm factor encouraging many more to join in. When it looks like taking off, with Neal's supply getting low, we will find a brass company.Ed MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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lol! dude...it wont get much cheaper, easier and boomier 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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you would be able to chuck some serious lead down range in the functional impact velocities of cast bullets. nei has a 1150 grain mold. i think 900 grains would be good at above .4 s.d. and see if you could lob them at 2,000 fps 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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kmule...it would be awesome if you could do field testing on some brown bear and moose... 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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A budget gun using Enfields that I like. A start for those who can do their own work, and don't have a thing on hand to use. Action- $150 - Barrel $300-- Boyd Laminated thumbhole stock $120-- Pac990 pad $40-- Share reamers, 50 brass $150, dies $100, Misc like crossbolts, sights, etc, $150. If you can't do it, and need a smith add $500 to $800. Now the price will go up fast if you go quarter rib and brand name bottom metal. For bullets Rich is working with a friend to make good economical 585 bullets. Ed. MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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action $150 barrel $300 stock $120 recoil pad $40 brass $150 smithing $800 total $1560 the smile shooting a 585...priceless 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Charles, I have no personal problems with you, never had, never thought I would. I have tried to give you my arguments against yours, and that's it. Disaggreeing is not the same as disrespect, not in my world. I hoped my description of " the member with a duplicate of every new cartridge and a trip to Africa for each" would be understood as a sarcastic parabel, and had nothing to do with your person. Thanks, Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Charles, I agree with what Bent said...I thought you were just indulging yourself in a bit of sarcasm...or showing us the side of yourself that has the sardonic wit! Either way, I think each of you brings much to the AR smorgasbord of ideas. Just a case of reading a wee bit too much into the others post. Kick back, it's the weekend!! Rich DRSS Boomstick facilitator | |||
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so those who are posting interest in making one...what gun set up are you thinking about for the project and will you convert something you have or purchase a specific donor rig??? this should be fun... 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Boomie, I would think a CZ550 would be the foundation for me. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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would you buy just the action or rebarrel a 416??? any custom goodies? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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IMHO, you are way ahead to buy the CZ for $950 or so... just screw a barrel on it and play with the feeding issue going from .584" diameter cases to .634" on the belt. Me, I have this weakness for the P14/17 series rifles, and besides; I went rummaging thru a box of parts and found two P14 bolts and a P17. FYI, the P14 bolts mike .080" or so larger in diameter than the P17 for the '06. P14, .564" or so VS .487". Besides, I just acquired an enfield in 505 Gibbs, so my guy here can just read the measurements off of this one and make an easy conversion on a standard enfield. There are both a 550 and 475 Gibbs under construction here. Deal II: if someone wants to utilize my guy here, I will make the two .505's available to him (CZ and Enfield) for measurements. Rich DRSS | |||
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the cz seems to win the ease of conversion award and the rem p14/17 the tank version award. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I would go with a CZ in .416 Rigby -- complete. I agree with Rich in that you are way ahead this way -- just a barrel and so tuning up! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Same here, start with the CZ550/416 Rigby - this new one can be the "ugly, fat sister" to my 500A2. Will contact my local gun pusher tonight , see if he can find me one for a fair price - will probably hear "what, another cz in rigby????" - heck, maybe a "shot once, dropped once, for sale" is out there looking for a new home and a high protein diet w/ steroids  Has someone already be contacted pertaining to barrels ? No, I am not going to use the "T" word....  KMule Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand. | |||
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