This confirms, IMHO, that AA-2230 is THE powder to use with 500-grain bullets.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.

Mike,
Surely you jest!
Limit this to only 30 pages?
We are just getting started on this .458 Win.Mag. celebration.

That CH4D CanTool (canneluring tool) works very well on brass/bronze/copper monometal bullets,
as well as copper or gilding metal jacketed bullets.
Not so good on steel jacketed bullets.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
This confirms, IMHO, that AA-2230 is THE powder to use with 500-grain bullets.

Rip, when will you chop down that long barrel to 20" and have it properly converted to a Jungle Carbine?

Will love to see what velocity you can get off it with AA-2230.

Gustavo,
Did you just get back from a sea cruise? Submarine or surface?

There is not much for me to add about AA-2230, lots of good info early-on, from many members.
Here is a first blush at short-barrel data,
21.5" barrel right there on first page:

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
DATA 06-06 2017
remington 700 21 1/2 inch barrel
[ruger #1 take off]
458 win mag -- custom culling rifle w 10 round bottom clip
trigicon reflex sight

10.3 # rifle

bullet 500 gn hornady solid dxs

powder aa 2230
brass new winchester
federal 215 primer
lab radar
temp 78 degrees

70 gn 2104---2098
71 gn 2120-- 2112
72 gn 2132---2139
73 gn 2152---2145
74 gn 2181---2180

primers flat at 74

harvested a jackrabbit with good effect on way back from range

BTW, "primers flat" is not disconcerting at all.
I am not happy unless my primers are flat, and tight, and no cratering of firing-pin indentions, and no brass extrusion causing ejector marks on brass,
and no sticky extraction,
and no other funny business.
Just like with my latest LongCOL 500-grain TSX loads.

Your rifle with an AHR custom chamber might be a "miracle worker."
Load it up with AA-2230 and 500-grainers at 3.340" COL and let us know how fast if goes with a 20" barrel.
I am afraid I am stuck on 24" to 25" barrels.
I might go as short as 23" on a Jungle carbine, however.

The Western Powder Co. data showed 72.0 grains of AA-2230 produced only 53,808 PSI in the .458 Win.Mag., with 500-gr Hornady RN at 3.305" COL.

For the .458 Lott with same bullet at 3.600" COL,
82.0 grains of AA-2230 produced 60,000 PSI.
That must have been a SAAMI-throated .458 Lott which did not exceed the minimum throat by much,
unlike the CZ .458 Lott which exceeds the old CIP-of-2002 standard by a Lott!

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.

Pressures for the .458 Win.Mag. LongCol loads with the 500-grain TSX, 24-7/8" barrel, my SWAG:

Load A.: 78.0 gr AA-2230 >>> 2250 fps MV @ less than 55,000 PSI

Load B.: 83.0 gr AA-2230 >>> 2342 fps MV @ barely over 60,000 PSI,
Yep, primers flat.


The difference that 92 fps makes in Kinetic Energy of bullet:
A. 5620 ft-lbs KE at muzzle.
B. 6089 ft-lbs KE at muzzle.

The difference that 92 fps makes in Point Blank Range, assuming a 9-inch diameter vital zone:
A. PBR = 236.6 yards for High-trajectory zero (+ 3.00" @ 100 yards, dead-on at 192.9 yards).
B. PBR = 246.4 yards for High-trajectory zero (+ 3.00" @ 100 yards, dead-on at 201.4 yards).

Powder compression status of the 3.780" COL load with the 1.650"-long bullet:
A. 78.0 grains = 96.9% volumetric fill: Not compressed.
B. 83.0 grains = 103.1% volumetric fill: Mildly compressed ball powder.

Recoil comparison in a 10-pound rifle:
A.
Recoil velocity = 21.3 fps
Recoil energy = 70.6 ft-lbs
Recoil impulse = 6.6 lb-sec
B.
Recoil velocity = 22.3 fps
Recoil energy = 77.3 ft-lbs
Recoil impulse = 6.9 lb-sec

Load A. versus Load B.:
The lower pressure, more accurate, 92 fps slower load, with no powder compression, and lighter recoil,
gives up only about 10 yards in PBR with a high-trajectory zero, and less than that with a low-trajectory zero.





Conveniently, the Nikon SlugHunter scope is already zeroed about 0.8" high at 50 yards for load A.
That is a "Low Trajectory" which is + 1.46" @ 100 yards,
and dead on at 151.1 yards ...






Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.

RIP, keeps burning the midnight oil!

Max,

It is a labor of love, and sometimes I lose track of time.

The .458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity (LAF) is a happening thing,
the ".458 Win.Mag. LAF" for short.
Loyal members are a happy bunch, and claim to be ".458 Win.Mag. LAF Members for Life,"
"Lifer LAFfers,"
or just "LAFfers."
Lifetime membership is free, just requires a brain and free will.

Anyone who claims the .458 Winchester Magnum is ineffective has either not tried one, or is suffering from .458 Winchester Magnum Derangement Syndrome.

Attendance: One.
I was the only member at the first annual meeting of the LAFfers. That was me taking the picture, December 6, 2017.

I hope to get the event worked into the festivities of Whittaker Guns' Guntoberfest, an annual event, which I named,
and they copyrighted, believe it or not.
It is the local emporium's annual exposition occurring over a weekend in October each year.
Yep, I am the Godfather of Guntoberfest.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

I just traded in a God-forsaken, CIP-of-2002, deep-throated, .458 Lott made by CZ in Czechoslovakia in 2008.
It was sold to me at the local emporium in 2013, after CZ-USA put it in a Kevlar stock and called it a
"CZ 550 American Safari Field Magnum Kevlar/Aramid Composite."
The factory test target is from "-7 -05- 2008."
It is the worst CZ factory test target I have ever seen:



3 shots at 50 meters, center-to-center measured 2.355" or 5.98cm,
which is over 4 MOA for 3 shots.
I think CZ-USA quit including those factory test targets after that one.
In the old days the targets were labeled as 100-meter test targets.

So CZ-USA rifles as late as 2013 had the same CIP-2002-Revised throat on both
.458 Win.Mag. (0.875" Throat Jump with 2.500" brass)
and
.458 Lott (0.875" Throat Jump with 2.800" brass).
They exceeded the minimums, satisfied safety requirements. Minimum is 0.6725" Throat Jump for each with their respective maximum brass.

I had to pay a little boot to get a brand-new Ruger No.1 in .475 Linebaugh.
It needs to be re-chambered to "470 Chapstick."
With the 20" barrel of 1:18" twist,
it should be good with cast bullets.
It weighs about 7.0 lbs even, and is 4" shorter in overall length than Gustavo's Jungle Carbine.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

Behold the 100-meter target of old, and the results with the .458 Win.Mag. before it left the factory:



This rifle was re-chambered from .458 Win.Mag. to .458 Lott, using the Manson .458 Lott reamer,
the throat of which fits inside of the .458 Win.Mag. remnant throat.

So Throat Jump using 2.800" brass instead of 2.500" brass is 0.875" - 0.300" = 0.575"
and I guess I can live with that.
I am getting close to having this all sorted out.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

RIP, I have a 458 Watts, Lott, Win mag.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
RIP, I have a 458 Watts, Lott, Win mag.

jwp475,

Excuse please if I got you confused with member Whitworth a few posts back.
You two are both big-bore handgun enthusiasts, right?
I am taking that up too. Can't have too many hobbies. Too bad there are limits on one's time, but the number of hobbies one can have is unlimited.

You are also apparently a big-bore rifle enthusiast of note, if you have a .450 Watts Magnum.

Please tell us about your .450 WattsMag.
This could be important in sleuthing out the origins of the .458 Win.Mag. throat.
Maybe.
Of course your reamer could have been made with "any throat you want," short or long, since it is not SAAMI-specified, still a wildcat.
But it would still be interesting to know the throat, even if not historically accurate to Harvey Anderson specs, marketing hyped to do +2500 fps with 500-grain bullets.
It is vital to your handloading that you know the throat of your rifle.
Maybe you already do?
Please do tell.
If not:

Do you have a drawing of the specs on the reamer used to chamber your rifle?
If not please measure it with the Slug&Rod method that I use, to get a figure for the Throat Jump.
That is just the distance from breech bolt face to where the throat narrows down to .458"-diameter, then subtract the maximum brass length for the cartridge.

Of course, the Throat Jump in your rifle will be less with 2.850" .450WattsMag. brass than with the 2.800" .458 Lott brass,
by 0.050".

Pretty please.

I have found the Slug&Rod method to accurate/repeatable, as good as Stoney Point/Hornady OAL guage.
That is true as long as you get a bullet/slug with a sharp-edged (no boat tail!) flat base (inserted backwards),
or a sharp/square leading edge rearward of the nose ogive if you drop the bullet into the throat nose first.
If you drop the slug in nose-first, you must subtract the nose ogive length when figuring.
Length of the slug does not matter,
since you can push it into the throat with a dummy cartridge behind it.
Use a 3/8" dowel, steel rod, or cleaning rod,
and a fine point Sharpie.

If lacking reamer specs, and you are too busy to measure the throat jump yourself,
send you .450 Watts Magnum rifle to me and i will measure it and send it back to you.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

Hey y'all,

In hopes of encouraging y'all to measure the throats of some rifles of .458-caliber, if you get my drift,
a little ballpoint pen doodle hopefully worth a thousand words:



(Edited for clarification, 12-25-2017.)

Just try it. You will figure it out immediately and perfect your technique instantly.
Do it for Science and History and THE MISSION.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

From the ".375 H&H reloading help" thread, where I got the idea from member eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Problem with using a dummy round to determine the chamber/throat length is that the ejector, if it is in the bolt face, or the extractor slipping over the case rim into the extractor groove both create feel as you attempt to close the bolt on the dummy round.

The better way is to close the bolt on an empty chamber and put a cleaning rod down the barrel until it touches the bolt face then mark the rod at the muzzle (ballpoint pen up against the muzzle). Remove the bolt and then insert a bullet into the chamber and push it to stop at the rifling using an empty case, finger, pen etc. Again let the rod touch the bullet nose and mark rod at the muzzle. The distance measured between the marks on the cleaning rod is the maximum overall length, COAL, of a loaded cartridge with the bullet lightly touching the rifling.

Deduct Barnes' 'off the lands' measure from the COAL and load your rounds to the "Barnes" COAL. Of course as mentioned by Trademark, your magazine length may dictate your COAL.

eagle27,

Thanks for goading me into trying that.
I use a cold-rolled 3/8" steel rod in the .458-caliber rifles.
I hold a fine-point Sharpie marker against the rod, precisely at the muzzle crown, and spin the rod to mark it.
Then I cover the mark with transparent tape to preserve it, prevent smudging.



When the rod is marked twice, the data is one number: The distance between the two marks.

If the bullet-caliber slug is flat on the end going into the rifling,
then that one number is the "Throat Jump" of a bullet going from maximum length brass to the bullet-caliber diameter of the throat.

If there is any nose projection of slug/bullet ogive beyond the full-caliber diameter of throat,
then that projection must be measured and subtracted from the distance between the two marks on the rod.

I measure the spacing of the two rod marks on the muzzleward side of each mark, as precisely as possible with calipers.
Not with a ruler vaguely somewhere in the middle of each mark.

Take care and you can get some good results using this method,
repeatable and reproducible for me within +/- 0.005",
plenty good enough for my purposes.

Thanks for the idea.

Here is another method more simple-minded that might be OK for small bores and short throats:



http://bulletin.accurateshoote...ngth-to-lands-gauge/

For THE MISSION!

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

The problem with the "Split-Neck Method" is that it might be impossible to find a bullet long enough to reach the lands of a CIP-2002-Revision .458 Lott,
if CZ made it.

No problems at all with the Slug & Rod Method.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

RIP, Whitworth and I are both into big bore revolvers. I shot the first bear and moose ever shot with the 475 Linebaugh cartridge way back.

My 458 Watts, Lott, Win is built on a M-70 controlled round feed originally a 300 RUM. The rifle is in transit to me as we speak. I’ll check with the builder for throat specs or measure when it arrives.

I’m a huge 416 fan and own a Whitworth in 416 Rem and a CZ in 416 Rigby. Have experienced the fun of a 505 Gibbs but do not own one.

jwp475,

Cool, thanks for any info on a "Watts" throat.
And glad to hear you have such experience with the .475 Linebaugh.

What is the heaviest bullet weight you have used in the .475 Linebaugh?


I have taken a deer with the 454 Casull,
and always had that Freedom Arms 454 SA revolver in a Bianchi Ranger Rig, whenever I hunted Alaska,
or a game farm in Tennessee.
Very handy, always a comfort to have along on rifle hunts.

I just googled a bit and found the SAAMI info on the .475 Linebaugh:

MAP 50,000 PSI
Parallel-sided freebore only .4755" diameter but about 0.365" length including from case mouth chamfer area of chamber to start of leade.
SAAMI drawing is poorly legible on the 'puter, worse when printed on paper.

Anyway, there is enough throat length, in the .475 Linebaugh to do some "LongCol" loading of the .475 Linebaugh.
The 1.4" long case becomes effectively 1.7" long with LongCOL loading, for the Ruger No.1-S factory rifle.

Reminds me of the .458 Win.Mag.

I have a bullet mould for .475-caliber/525-grain, gas-checked bullet.

It will be interesting to see If I can powder-coat some of those and try them in the .475 Linebaugh.

Jeff Quinn says he gets over 2000 fps with the Belt Mountain Punch 400-grainer designed especially for LongCOL loading.

Pretty good from a .475 Linebaugh,
the obese Mini-Me to the .458 Win.Mag.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

I’ve shot 440 grain WFN’s but have always preferred the LFN 420 grain. I’ve shot them through both shoulders of Asian buffalo with exits. The Punch Bullets will out pentrate any hard cast especially if heavy bone is encountered.

420’s at 1400 fps out of a 5 1/2” revolver is a handful. I’ve never shot the 475 out of a rifle. I’ve used the Cast Performance 525 WFN in the 500 Linebaugh and it is impressive on game out of a 5 1/2 or 6” revolver. The 500 JRH is my favorite of the big bore revolvers.

Awaiting .458/400-grain GSC HV.

I might get really adventurous and load the .458/450-grain CEB Safari Solid to exceed SAAMI 3.340" COL.
Maybe all the way to 3.355".
Even though it still works in a 3.4" magazine box, it qualifies as a Longcol Load in the .458 Win.Mag.

Doc M's maximum load for that 450-grain bullet in a 24"-barreled Winchester M70 .458 Win.Mag. gave 2311 fps with 77.0 grains of AA-2230,
pressure was 59,453 PSI.
That should be a good magazine box filler for any .458 Win.Mag., Shortcol or Longcol.


I am now dummying up for the .475 Linebaugh Longcol,
the mini-me on steroids to the .458 Win.Mag. Longcol:



I have started another hobby thread:
".475 Linebaugh Rifle: Mighty Mite"

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

When I had a pair of M70 in 458 the 400 grain Speer at 2000 f/s with 70 grains of 4064 was real accurate as was 70 grains of the Australian powder that is like 3031 and velocity was 2100 f/s

However, when using the Australian powder that is like 4198 and loaded to 2000 f/s it gave bullet break up. I put this down to higher pressure and thus greater acceleration of the bullet. That same bullet was fine in the 460 Wby loaded to 2300 plus but they were very pressure loads and thus low acceleration.

Don't think a long free bore issue with the 458 as the 460 is a full 3/4"

The 400 grain Speer had a super thin jacket, virtually paper thin.

the current Speer publications don't specify it but in older listings the 400 gr .458 bullet was designed for lower velocity cartridges such as the 45/70. They listed the 350 gr MagTip as their suggested bullet for the Win Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
the current Speer publications don't specify it but in older listings the 400 gr .458 bullet was designed for lower velocity cartridges such as the 45/70. They listed the 350 gr MagTip as their suggested bullet for the Win Mag.

Correct.

They are (or were ) super soft.

One great and very accurate load I had for them in the 460 was 28 grains of hiScor 700X. That did just over 1300 f/s on the old Oehler Model 10. Just cut a bug ragged hole at 100 yards.

Leaving the 460 and 450 Rigby/Dakota to one side, if I was getting a custom 45 made then it would be a 458 Winchester but with very short throat so different bullets could be seated right on the rifling. You would be amazed at just how far you can reduce loads with ordinary rifle powder when the bullet is on the rifling and also great accuracy.

A 400 grainer at 2000 f/s is very similar to using a 375 but with very low blast, sort of a "flat bang"

In the standard 458 chamber if you back loads right off with 300 grainers and powders like 4198 then hang fires are the order of the day.

The 460 (and also the 378) would also be far more flexible with reduced loads if they did not have the 3/4" free bore, a much worse deal than the 458 Winchester because of the very large case capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
Leaving the 460 and 450 Rigby/Dakota to one side, if I was getting a custom 45 made then it would be a 458 Winchester but with very short throat so different bullets could be seated right on the rifling. You would be amazed at just how far you can reduce loads with ordinary rifle powder when the bullet is on the rifling and also great accuracy.

See the excerpts from the article by Gil Sengil, earlier in this thread,
about his short-throated ".458 Winchester Magnum Special."
IIRC, with his short-throated "Special"
he had to reduce loads by about 10 grains of powder for the usual powders that a SAAMI .458 Win.Mag. would digest with ease.
The .458 Lott suffers from a similar frailty,
and has to compensate for that limitation with a 0.300" longer case.

A 400 grainer at 2000 f/s is very similar to using a 375 but with very low blast, sort of a "flat bang"

In the standard 458 chamber if you back loads right off with 300 grainers and powders like 4198 then hang fires are the order of the day.

That is what AA-5744 is for, no filler needed, and no hangfires!
Circa 1873 ballistics are easy with the .458 Win.Mag. Nitro for BP.

The 460 (and also the 378) would also be far more flexible with reduced loads if they did not have the 3/4" free bore, a much worse deal than the 458 Winchester because of the very large case capacity.

True. The long, old Weatherby throats are long, parallel-sided free-bore plus a short leade.
The .458 Win.Mag.'s long throat is all tapering-down leade, not as far a throat jump as on a 460 Weatherby,
IF the .458 Win.Mag. is not too much over the SAAMI spec.

Could this be page 30?

Yes! THE MISSION is won, but continues ad nauseum for some members.

The load for the CEB Safari Solid settled on 3.360" for COL, with 2.490"-trimmed Hornady brass,
Federal GM215M primer, AA-2230 77.0 grains.
It is shown with two Hornady DANGEROUS GAME SERIES factory loads:




Rip

The last time I went to the range, the wind spooled all the paper off my Oehler printer when I was stapling targets to the target frame.
I used the ProChrono for the latest session, as the wind was worse.

I fired 5 shots of each of the three loads.
On the last shot, which was with the DGX, the front sight bead somehow popped out of the ramp on the barrel where it is retained by a spring loaded plunger, CZ-style.
The bead-insert landed beside my right elbow at the bench and was recovered and replaced.
This proves that the Nikon SlugHunter scope is more rugged than iron sights.

Here are those 15 shots, to be explained below:

I felt compelled to give the CEB credit for a good 3-shot group, that it would have done without the fouling shot on the center big bull.
My rifle talks to me.
She said the CEB was a great bullet and deserves it especially considering the windy conditions.
She knows bullets.

Rip

The factory loaded Hornady DGS FMJ/Solid, second time on this thread by me, to be discussed below:

The Softpoint DGX was only 2 fps faster at the muzzle:

Summary of latest .458 Win.Mag. loads fired by the WinCzechster's 24-7/8" barrel:

CEB 450-grain Safari Solid: 77.0 grains AA-2230 >>> 2365 fps MV
and about 0.53 MOA for "a 3-shot group" of sorts, at 50 yards.
5-shot velocity Sd = 4 fps
Shoots to POI about 0.56" above POA at 50-yards.
(Scope setting unchanged from 500-grain TSX @ 2250 fps MV, zeroed 0.80" high at 50 yards.)

Hornady 500-grain DGS factory load >>> 2094 fps MV
5-shot Sd = 8 fps.

Hornady 500-grain DGX factory load >>> 2096 fps MV
5-shot Sd = 6 fps

Maybe the wind was blowing harder when I shot the factory loads.
Those loads deserve more credit than they got from this shooting session.
Their POIs were on either side of 1" high at 50 yards.

First Shooting: My previous DGS factory load velocity at 5 yards, for 10-shot average = 2105 fps (5-yard), Sd = 8 fps, Oehler 35P,
69 degrees F,
24"-barrel, Whitworth MkX Express, factory rifle,
maybe a true 0.458"-grooved barrel?

Second Shooting: Latest DGS factory load velocity at 5 yards, for 5-shot average = 2080 fps (5-yard), Sd = 8 fps, ProChrono,
55 degrees F,
24-7/8" barrel, CZ barrel on a Pre-'64 M70 action,
0.459"-grooved barrel, looser than Whitworth?

There is a 25 fps difference between the two rifles, same lot of ammo.
There is a 14-degree-F temperature difference.
Faster velocity with warmer temperature was observed.
2 fps/degree F may be seen with a poor TBI of some powders.
That would account for 28 fps, if the TBI of the Hornady factory powder was that bad.
Maybe there is little difference between the two rifles afterall ...

I have discovered that the CEB 450-grainer at 2365 fps (5588 ft-lbs)
shoots very close to same POI at 50 yards as the Barnes 500-grain TSX at 2342 fps (6090 ft-lbs).





The CEB is also very close to the 500-grain TSX at 2250 fps (5620 ft-lbs), 0.80" high at 50 yards,
and 0.19 MOA for 3 shots:



How convenient! In a .458 Win.Mag. Longcol:
CEB-450-grainer at 2365 fps as solid to back up the TSX-500-grainer at anywhere from 2250 to 2342 fps as softpoint.


For 0.56" high at 50 yards:
CEB 450-grainer with 2365 fps MV is dead-on at about 34 yards, and again at 133 yards.
This is for the WinCzechster rifle and Nikon SlugHunter scope.
They are both taking a licking and still ticking.
One of those $3000 scopes would buy about 15 of those SlugHunters.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The.458 Win.Mag. Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
RIP it just dawned on me that you have actually proven in 30 pages that all those years ago everyone who had doubts about the 458 were right all along. Wow who would have thunk !

The case capacity is to small so you have to McGiver it by loading long and load with light bullets

Alf,

Yes, by "McGivering" the .458 Winchester Magnum with Longcol loads,
one can produce superbly accurate results that deliver over 6000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
One can do that at lower pressure than one would get with the .458 Lott at same velocity,
unless one also Longcol-loads the .458 Lott,
and has one of those CIP-of-2002-throated .458 Lott rifles.
But in that case, the .458 Lott Longcol will be too long to fit in the magazine box of the CZ 550 Magnum,
and the bullet will still have a huge jump to the lands.
Not so with the 2.5" brass in the 3.8" box with the +1.65"-length bullet (TSX),
and a throat that does not exceed the SAAMI spec for the .458 Win.Mag. by too much:
Voila!
500-grain TSX:
6089 ft-lbs @ 2342 fps, pressure barely over 60,000 psi, or
5620 ft-lbs @ 2250 fps, pressure way under 60,000 psi, and
0.19 MOA (3-shot).
Can be a 6-shooter rifle under 10 pounds field ready (3.8" box), over 10 pounds if you like, or exactly 10.0 pounds if you like.
Add a "pocket" floorplate to the standard CZ 550 Magnum and you have a 7-shooter (6 in box + 1 round in the chamber).
What is not to like?

Yes, you can do that with 500-grainers, and you do not have to use "light bullets" unless you want to.
With a 350-grain TSX at about 2600 fps, sub-one-half-MOA accuracy is easily achieved,
and the trajectory of the "classic .375 H&H 300-grainer" is equaled or bettered,
with equal or better KE inside of any reasonable hunting range:
350-grain TSX:
5213 ft-lbs @ 2590 fps
0.33 MOA (3-shot).
Rifle may be a 4-shooter under 9.5 pounds field ready (3.4" or 3.6" box)
or a 6-or-7-shooter under 10 pounds field ready (3.8" box, or even a fancy 3.6" drop-boxed M70).
What is not to like?

I hope to add some more pages here if I ever gain possession of some GSC HV 400-grainers for the .458 Win.Mag.


The part that I am not sure if you get yet, Alf,
and I sure hope it doesn't require another 30 pages of my "splaining" for you to get this:

The 450-grain bullet of .458 caliber is not a "light bullet."
It has a sectional density of 0.3064665 and beats the sectional density of the 300-grain bullet of .375 caliber, 0.3047616.

Oh, yeah, the 450-grainer is 10% lighter than a 500-grain roundnose FMJ "solid" of yore,
and that is exactly the optimum for performance with monometal brass and copper solids.

All of the .458-caliber rifle chamberings would do well to follow the lead of the .458 Win.Mag.
and use the 450-grain monometal solids for any work requiring a solid bullet.

Rip
Godfather of Guntoberfest
Founding Member of The .458 Winchester Magnum Longcol Aficianados Fraternity

By the way Ron, have you noticed the 458 tread has passed the 400 Whelen thread

And Ron, you did not thank me for allowing you to be the one who kick started page 30

Finishing page 29 was OK for me as you are in charge

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Yanking your chain Doc !

The old bitch did just fine and now its doing better thanks to your efforts but sadly it will not be long before its all just memories because there is just not the appetite for these thumpers anymore ! Soon no one will be building them commercially anymore and then the ammo will follow !

The hunting grounds of Africa are shrinking rapidly, the tides are turning and unless you are wandering out yonder in the cold where them big bears live there is little reason for a 458 or anything big.

So we can dream, pontificate and play the glass has been turned and the sands are running bud

Dammit, that is sad but true, and so poetically put. Didn't know you had it in you, Alf.
At least we were not born too late to see some of it.
If we had been born a century earlier, would we have survived long enough to see more of it than we have?
We will never know ...
Have a Tusker on me.

Rip ...