Rube it is RIP, thanks for posting the pics and compliment, the setting sun lightened up the wood, it's a deep chocolate brown, that is indeed a factory Classic Stainless barrel, worlds of meat there for a re-bore.

That rifle may make a hell of a 458 Win Mag +P+,
LOL on redneck girl, that rifle fits, it's just an old parts gun put together along the way, if went 458, I'd probably loose the 2.5-8 scope, could just run irons for everything inside 150 yards.

Jerry,
If you insist on "Rube"
then I get dibbs on "Ruby."
She retains and feeds .458 WIN just fine, best I can tell.
Will have to see if the local Wizard will accept this Mission Possible.

To go whole hog on a .458 WIN+P+3.6" M70:

McMillan-Sunnyhill, drop-belly stock and bottom metal.

Besides, to fully qualify as a redneck girl, a rifle must have a synthetic stock.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/9481011162

If you really need to Long COL your 3.34” action...

Buy a donkey boom stick.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/9481011162

Great read, Part 1, dated Aug. 9, 2020.
Part 2 anxiously anticipated.

Stock swapping possibles, parts is parts:
For M70 .375 H&H action:
Brown Pounder with pad and bedding ~1.25 lbs
Tupperware ~1.75 lbs
B&C Medalist ~2.0 lbs
HS Precisioin ~2.5 lbs
McMillan-Sunnyhill ~3.0 lbs

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jerry,
If you insist on "Rube"
then I get dibbs on "Ruby."
She retains and feeds .458 WIN just fine, best I can tell.
Will have to see if the local Wizard will accept this Mission Possible.

LOL, Yessir, you can have Ruby, it'll go fine with Marcella and Goldie ; ]

Oh damn, a beer belly mag full of 3.6" 458 Win Mag +P+ Hellfire! I like it, please proceed.

quote:

Originally posted by jerry mcdonald:
LOL, Yessir, you can have Ruby, it'll go fine with Marcella and Goldie ; ]

Oh damn, a beer belly mag full of 3.6" 458 Win Mag +P+ Hellfire! I like it, please proceed.

Sir, I resemble that remark about the beer belly.
With the above stock switch, Ruby the .375 WBY would weigh about 9#3oz.
Bigger bore to .458 might get her down to 9#0oz as a fiveshooter .458 WIN+P+3.6", Ruby McGowen-Winchester.
But wait !
Switching to the B&C Medalist would take off a full pound,
and adding my only remaining Weibe-XRM sheetmetal box might convert the 4-shooter to 5-shooter status.
8-pounder or 9-pounder

decisions, decisions ...

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Some good cheer from Harry Selby in 2009:

quote:

Originally posted by Harry Selby:
When my .416 Rigby was away in London to be rebarreled it took a long two years to get back to Botswana as it had to travel through South Africa and politics came into play. In its absence I used a Win Model 70 .458 and as long as the ammo was absolutely fresh and had not been lying around in the sun I had no complaints. I found that an excellent load for lion was the TBBC 400 gr. semi spitzer. The petals opened up very well creating a very large wound and the 400 grainer increased to velocity to close to .416 Rigby Cheers and Good luck.

Harry's comment about ammo "absolutely fresh, and not having been lying around in the sun" was offered only
to soothe the babbling baboons of denial, polite but totally unnecessary, we now know.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Gerard Shultz offered this evidence on the same 2009 thread,
.458/ 400-gr HV from a .458 Winchester Magnum used on lion and cape buffalo :

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/galfg458.html





Big and bulky Tasco red dot survives .458 Winchester Magnum, with a short, two-point, scout-scope attachment to front of action and barrel.
Sturdy enough for rental-rifle application by the safari operator.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

RIP, I can relate, I used to wear 34x36 jeans, now it's 36x34, how does one get bigger around than he is tall? ; ]

An 8 or 9lb 458 +P+ is going to rock your world, I need to weigh my 375 sans scope, and maybe a 1lb loss due to rebore, it may be in the same boat.

I would dearly love to run across 3 or 4 hundred of the old 450gr Barnes Banded flat nosed solids, IIRC the 450gr TSX's can still be bought, that would do a man to ride the river with for life in the 458 +P+ 3.600".

That said, the BBW #13's at 3.340/3.360" would indeed work, especially at 2450 fps.

Jerry,
Yes, loss of the Barnes Banded Solids is truly a shame, never explained to my satisfaction.


Getting the CEB Safari Solid 450-grainer to 2450 would be no problem if you can figure a way seated it longer and maintain alignment and neck tension ...
Maybe a partial-length paper patch between those last two widely spaced bands, patch to .458" diameter of course, on the inter-band shank,
and hope the rifling would shred it for discard at the muzzle,
like an open-bottomed sabot.
Seat it over a compressed load, so bullet will not go deeper in case with recoil battering.
Roll crimp over the leading edge of the partial-length patch, with trailing end of patch up against the last band on the base.
That would make for some resistance to pulling the bullet out of the case.

450-gr copper FN solid: Shorten the 500-grain TSX at both ends, making an FN small enough to feed well, then solder the remnant hollow point shut,
or use a screw-in flat steel insert for FN meplat,
like Norbert Hansen's super-penetrator.

MISSION MILEAGE:



These are soft, my thumbnail will scratch them.
Some folks claim WW can be heat-treated to harder than BHN-30.
Raise the oven temperature to just short of melting the bullet ...

Above were cast of WW and air-cooled at the same time as the paper-patch bullets in the 2-cavity mould:

After mould was hot and BHN-25 Alloy was hot in the second pot
I experimentally cast 5 PP bullets for comparison weight and diameter in the hard alloy ...



... then continued casting with only one cavity for these, my thumbnail does not scratch them:



30:1 or as hard as 20:1 (according to Ross Seyfried's .461 Gibbs experience) can be used for the paper-patch bullet in a BPCR,
whether .45-70 Govt. or .45-2.6" Sharps Winchester Throated.

The difference in weight for the 570-ish-grain FNGC of WW vs. BHN-25 Alloy is only about 6 grains lighter for the harder alloy.
And only about .0005" greater diameter for those lighter bullets.
That is from arithmetic on only 5 bullets of each type.
The hardcast 568-grainer will weigh about 578 grains after PCP and gas check.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by jerry mcdonald:
RIP, I can relate, I used to wear 34x36 jeans, now it's 36x34, how does one get bigger around than he is tall? ; ]

An 8 or 9lb 458 +P+ is going to rock your world, I need to weigh my 375 sans scope, and maybe a 1lb loss due to rebore, it may be in the same boat.

I would dearly love to run across 3 or 4 hundred of the old 450gr Barnes Banded flat nosed solids, IIRC the 450gr TSX's can still be bought, that would do a man to ride the river with for life in the 458 +P+ 3.600".

That said, the BBW #13's at 3.340/3.360" would indeed work, especially at 2450 fps.

I’ve got 84 of them...but they ain’t for sale ;-) ;-)

come on guys lets keep sending email requests to Barnes Bullets to get them to make the 400 grain TSX bullets then after they start making them then maybe we can talk them into 450 gr Banded flat nosed solids or at least a special purchase lot you never know.

customer service @ barnes bullets.com

Hydehunter,

I spoke with customer service at Barnes, and they said they have an agreement not to sell the .458/ 400-grainer to the public
during an unspecified period of a contract to provide it exclusively to an unnamed manufacturer.
They called this arrangement an "OEM" if I heard correctly.

The OEM might expire some year.
Until then, pester Barnes:

Reminder should go out weekly at least, on Sunday night or Monday morning, since Barnes is closed Fri, Sat, Sun.
Flood them with telephone calls too.
I will try to remember to post this at least weekly.

Come Monday:
Remember to call AND email Barnes.
Tell them you want the .458/ 400-grain TSX to be released to the public.
Everybody and his brother with a .458-caliber rifle of any kind wants it.
We know it exists and is being sold only to a boutique ammo loader.

Barnes Bullets
Business hours: 7:30 AM to 5 PM Rocky Mountain Standard Time
Closed: Friday through Sunday

Internet:

email @barnesbullets.com
customerservice@barnesbullets.com
http://www.barnesbullets.com

Telephone:

(435) 856-1000
(800) 574-9200


.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

As for the brass .458/ 450-gr FN solid:

Unknown why Barnes quit making it, other than a profitability calculation by bean counters ?
The excuse about it being dangerous to body-armored enforcers and ordered discontinued by the ATFE is suspect.
Other makers make a similar bullet: CEB

Sure would be nice to have the CEB nose with the Barnes Banded bands.
A custom bullet order made by CEB ...
Heck, they really ought to replace their entire Safari Solid line with properly banded/grooved brass bullets
That long expanse of way-sub-bore-diameter between the last two bands is awful.

CEB could make a .458/ 400-gr copper monometal hollow point bullet too.
Bubba would be happy to allow them to copy the Bubba Bullet Metamorphosis T6 specifications.




Looking at the above, Bubba has realized a need for a 10th T6, to complete the "T6 Big Ten."
A sleeker 480-grainer of whatever BOL arrived at by hacksaw, drill press and bastard file:
1) Shorten the 500-gr TSX at base only, until weight is close to 480 grains.
2) Then chamfer and drill the hollow point until weight is 480.0 grains exactly !
The previous 480-gr T6 of 1.557" BOL had shortening at both ends.
Bubba hopes the supply of 500-gr TSX bullets does not dry up.
Barnes Bullets is in Chapter 11 as a subsidiary of Remington.
A creditor meeting by telephone is scheduled on Sep. 1, 2020.
I do not know why I was notified by first-class letter of that. 2 letters, one addressed to "Ronald" and a duplicate addressed to "Ron."
What a waste of paper !
What a year !

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Tired of leaving the .458 Lott in the dust ?
Want to recreate the likes of any of the old .45-.46 bore Sharps and Gibbs BPCRs ?
Here is a match made in heaven for the .458 WIN:



Feeds well too, in all of my .458 WIN rifles, halleluja !

A Blackhorn 209 load for the 45-100 Sharps Straight will transpose directly into the .458 WIN, probably with very similar results.
Tested data from Western Powders Company:

570-gr RN
Fed 215
3.380" COL
41.5 gr Blackhorn 209
1321 fps (barrel length 29", 1:20 twist)
st.dev. 6 fps (for unspecified number of shots)
27,540 psi
83% load density/loading ratio/fill
maximum load, Dacron filler used, over powder wad recommended.

Using QuickLOAD for 25"-barreled .458 WIN and 3.340" COL:

AA-2495 could be used with this bullet for 100% powder burn with all loads over 85% fill,
with velocities of 1600 fps to 2000 fps easily attainable.
Pressures would be from under 28,000 psi on the low end, to under 60,000 psi on the top end,
with about 105% LR compressed load, according to QuickLOAD.

With H4895, 99% LR/fill would be necessary to get a 100% burn, velocity over 1800 fps, pressure under 45,000 psi, according to QuickLOAD.

RL-17 compressed in a 108% LR/fill might get you very close to 2100 fps, with pressure of 62,500 psi, according to QuickLOAD.
That is .458 Lott pressure !

Always take QuickLOAD with a grain of saltpeter when applied to the .458 WIN, regarding pressures being greatly overestimated by QuickLOAD.
QuickLOAD is not too bad with predicted velocities.
It is pretty good for looking at Loading Ratio and percentage of propellant burnt,
and effects of barrel length on MV.

One cannot fit any length of .461" diameter bullet into a SAAMI .458 Lott throat.
The SAAMI .458 WIN is definitely a better cast bullet shooter than the .458 Lott.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Bob,

From your August 10, 2020 blog,
"BULLETS -- Heavy and Slow or Lite and Fast?" https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/

Minor typo:

quote:

Ballistics: (as presented above)

#1 Ruger .458 = 5957 ft-lbs/MTE 120 (should be 267 not 120) @ muzzle, and 1735 fps/2673 ft-lbs/MTE 120 @ 500 yards

9.3 x 62 TIKKA = 4365 ft-lbs/MTE 140 @ muzzle, and 1810 fps/2080 ft-lbs/MTE 66.6 @ 500 yards

The 579-gr Blue Bullet:
@1300 fps, MTE = 141
@2000 fps, MTE = 333

The .458 Winchester Magnum is the best thing since sliced bread.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Thanks RIP,

Have corrected -- too much in a hurry? Age?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Hey guys,

Just to show how the .458 is such a flawed cartridge, I decided to go out and bag a Sambar stag with mine!

I saw this fella running flat out and only had a second or two to fire off a quick shot which I did.

Unfortunately, I hit way too far back - but even with the poor shot placement, the 510gn factory round at 2020fps really slowed him down so I could put another, better placed shot into him. The second shot into the shoulder put him down within a few steps.

The ammo I was using was Winchester factory stuff that was probably '80's vintage.
AND... despite stories I've heard;

a. It still went off
b. It reached claimed velocity (within 20fps)
c. Killed well

The .458 is now my Sambar cartridge by choice. Even with poorly placed shots (that still happen when hunting despite our best efforts that they don't) it's just such an emphatic performer.

I was actually thinking of using my .308 but if I had, and shot that stag with similar shot placement, I would've been in for a long follow up... or worse, a lost animal.

So the .458 for me!

So there you go guys, another one for the mission!

Cheers,

Russ

RIP, more good stuff for the mission, left a message with JES, it's about to be on like Donkey-Kong now, speaking of donkey, I LMAO every time I read 'buy a donkey' what in hell does that mean? and where did it originate from? ; ]

Wife was in her craft room this weekend and heard me up here laughing........Buying another Donkey? she asked!!!!!

Badboymelvin,
Jolly good show, but judging by the smile on your face, you know that !
Buy a donkey for THE MISSION.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Jerry,

Big YEE HAH on the Donkey-Kong. Me too.

"Baia danke" is Afrikanns for "thank you very much."
Pronounced like "buy a donkey."
That is how Elvis says it after purchasing cheeseburgers at the Wimpy francise burger joints while on his extended safari in southern Africa.
Yep, he is 85 years old, and yesterday was the 43rd anniversary of his disappearance.
Speaking of which, and reminded by your Wife's comment,
yesterday was my greatest anniversary celebration ever, #45.
I gifted my Wife with her own Colt M-4 Carbine with a Trijicon 1.25-4x24mm scope in Burris X-treme Tactical mounts, MBUS fold-down peep,
and a little laser hung under the barrel for night-time CQC use on any looters or rioters.
She is sighted dead-on at 100 yards and bangs the gong reliably at 200 yards.
160 rounds was Wife's first lesson.
She was already good with a Glock 19, now she is good with a "rifle" too, kid stuff though it may be
compared to a .458 Winchester Magnum.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

LOL, Great, Thanks for the explanation RIP, i'll holler out 'buy a donkey' next Safari ; ]

Good deal you did the Missus, mine shoots her AR-15 off her knee while brass from my 7.62 REPR flies harmlessly over her head, not a damn thing wrong with a flanker shooter these days and times ; ]

Bought mine three [NON-Safety] Sig P365's for her sidearm, want her to be familiar with only 'one' handgun operation this early in the game, she loves it and stays hooked and eyes on target 'regardless' of what I'm doing beside her to make her fail, I wouldn't want a scared chicken leveling sights on me Sir.

The 579-gr FNGC has very similar "form factor" to that of the 450-gr Barnes Banded Solid which has a BC of .362 according to the last published by Barnes.

BC is directly proportional to SD.
Considering both bullets to be of same caliber after being squeezed through a .458-caliber barrel,
450-grainer SD = .306 with BC = .362
579-grainer SD = .394 so BC = (.394/.306) x .362 = .466

Maybe that is not as good as Selous' 570-grain paper-patched bullet, but it ain't bad !

The 579-gr FNGC with MV of 1300 fps only loses 5 fps in the first 5 yards,
and rate of velocity loss is less and less the slower it gets.
It is supersonic past 200 yards !
From 995 yards to 1000 yards, it only loses 1.2 fps.

Recoil in 10-pound rifle, if 41.5 grains of Blackhorn 209 produces 1300 fps MV with 3.340" COL: 28.6 ft-lbs/ 13.67 fps

Very mild recoil yet sufficient for elephant.

Part of why I have been quiet lately has been that I've been a bit busy stuffing as many 5.56x45 hulls with 25 grains of H335 and 55-grain BlitzKings as possible. That takes a while on a turret press and a powder measure that weighs each charge to under 1/10 grain! And I still need to tackle smaller piles of .327 Fed Mag, .32 ACP, 50 BMG, and 10mm...

The Maz,

Understood, like in my case Grannie needed some range time and will be needing lots of ammo too.
Always a good thing when Grannie can handle a gun.
Buy a donkey whenever you can get to it.
Meanwhile,
you new it was coming:



OK, 2161 fps MV will be sufficient for 6003 ft-lbs and MTE of 333 at the muzzle.
With that extravagance, 5-yard velocity loss is 9 fps.
It is supersonic to 800 yards.
From 995 yards to 1000 yards it loses 2 fps.
When I find out the powder charge needed at 3.600" COL to deliver 2161 fps with the 579-grainer,
I will calculate the recoil in a 10-pound rifle.
To be test-fired with a muzzle brake AND a sissy pad.

299792458 meters per second is the speed of light, a universal constant, just like the .458 Winchester Magnum.


.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Rip
Love those big blue bullets. We just need a buffalo stampede to use them on.
So glad to see you removing the second biggest myth about the 458wm, that being that it’s not a good cast bullet cartridge because of the throat. Not true. Properly made, sized, lubed, propelled And fired, the 458wm is a great cast bullet cartridge.
Would I not love to walk Selous’s Africa with my 458wm and a Wooden case Full of those big blue loads. Yup. I sure would.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Rip
Love those big blue bullets. We just need a buffalo stampede to use them on.
AMEN !
So glad to see you removing the second biggest myth about the 458wm, that being that it’s not a good cast bullet cartridge because of the throat. Not true.
CORRECT !
Properly made, sized, lubed, propelled And fired, the 458wm is a great cast bullet cartridge.
ABSOLUTELY !
Would I not love to walk Selous’s Africa with my 458wm and a Wooden case Full of those big blue loads. Yup. I sure would.
AMEN !
Just as good or better than the stunt shooting super magnum handgun and .45-70 elephant loads
that supposedly penetrate better than ".458 Winchester Magnum factory loads."

The most excellent .458 WIN MAG throat by SAAMI is perfect for cast bullet shooting with smokeless
and even works well with paper patch bullet shooting with BP when you get the softness of alloy and patched diameter correct.

With smokeless and cast in the SAAMI .458 WIN MAG (with groove diameter of barrel being .458" or .459"):
Hard alloy and .461" diameter bullet always works, whatever COL you like.

My initial failures with cast came from using .459" diameter bullets in .459"-grooved barrels
that I assumed were .458"-grooved, the minimum SAAMI spec for barrels.

TWIST: 1:14" twist is perfect.
Faster twist might be better with heaviest/longest monometals amd subsonic "Whisper" loads,
and slower twist might be better with some light-weight cast bullets and paper patched bullets,
but not worth bothering with, except for specialized use.

With all-SAAMI-specs, the happy jacketed-bullet shooter always finds accuracy in that .458 WIN MAG throat too, if he can shoot !
SAAMI maximum allowed bullet diameter for jacketed is .459".
Even that is going to be tight in a SAAMI .458 Lott with short free-bore of .459" minimum diameter.
Luckily there is usually some slop in a .458 Lott, and the brass can always be trimmed shorter.

That 579-gr slug is a +1.32-ounce slug, a 12-bore by the balls per pound of lead.
But much harder lead, much better sectional density, and velocity whatever you like from Foster slug range to Nitro Express range.

And remember, by intelligent design of the universe,
the .458 Winchester Magnum was derived from the most fundamental of universal constants,
the speed of light in a vacuum: 299,792,458 meters per second.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
And remember, by intelligent design of the universe,
the .458 Winchester Magnum was derived from the most fundamental of universal constants,
the speed of light in a vacuum: 299,792,458 meters per second.

These types of statements, liberally sprinked throughout this thread by RIP, are examples of literary devices employed in the classic style--the quote above mixing both farce and hyperbole for didactic purpose. These comedic interludes, often misinterpreted by those without a sense of humor, are one of the reasons I refresh this thread daily. Though postmodernism unfortunately still dominates the spheres of art and higher education, ironically, one can yet find first-class literature on a gun forum. Buy a donkey, RIP!

RIP,

For the Love of God that is truly insanely good work. Buy a donkey!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The Maz,

Understood, like in my case Grannie needed some range time and will be needing lots of ammo too.
Always a good thing when Grannie can handle a gun.
Buy a donkey whenever you can get to it.
Meanwhile,
you new it was coming:



OK, 2161 fps MV will be sufficient for 6003 ft-lbs and MTE of 333 at the muzzle.
With that extravagance, 5-yard velocity loss is 9 fps.
It is supersonic to 800 yards.
From 995 yards to 1000 yards it loses 2 fps.
When I find out the powder charge needed at 3.600" COL to deliver 2161 fps with the 579-grainer,
I will calculate the recoil in a 10-pound rifle.
To be test-fired with a muzzle brake AND a sissy pad.

299792458 meters per second is the speed of light, a universal constant, just like the .458 Winchester Magnum.


.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

bcelliott,

Moses may not have mentioned the .458 Winchester Magnum in GENESIS,
but that is only because it had not been Divinely Inspired yet.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
When He finally got around to it, God said of the .458 Winchester Magnum: "It is good."

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by The Maz:
RIP,

For the Love of God that is truly insanely good work. Buy a donkey!

Buy a donkey right back at you, The Maz,
and for the Love of God, see my reply to bcelliott, above.
That 579-grainer should be a holy roller.
Bloody big holes to roll any game.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
bcelliott,

Moses may not have mentioned the .458 Winchester Magnum in GENESIS,
but that is only because it had not been Divinely Inspired yet.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
When He finally got around to it, God said of the .458 Winchester Magnum: "It is good."

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

Great stuff! hahaha...

210 pages showing the beauty and elegance of truth and we’re not done yet. Let ‘Er RIP

Truth, yes, and some stuff just for fun:



.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

LOL, funny stuff RIP, it took a sec to see that was a spaceship in the photo, was trying to decide if it was some sort of RIPtastic Corporation watermark ; ]

It's a hundred yards down to the far bank on Wife brim pond, and a full mile to the mountaintop, I regularly iron sight those red angus cattle at dusk with a Sharps rifle iron sights and scoped big bores, they don't seem to mind.

500gr Partition at 3.600"
450gr TSX @ 3.565"
450gr BBW @ 3.360"

I have to ask what sort of crimp die you use to get that nice step down/neck down crimp in earlier photos? Lee FCD?

'Having fun' yes, a great deal of what this hobby is all about.

quote:

Originally posted by jerry mcdonald:
LOL, funny stuff RIP, it took a sec to see that was a spaceship in the photo, was trying to decide if it was some sort of RIPtastic Corporation watermark ; ]

Detail of the digitally enhanced ("Paint") hummingbird feeder:


It's a hundred yards down to the far bank on Wife brim pond, and a full mile to the mountaintop, I regularly iron sight those red angus cattle at dusk with a Sharps rifle iron sights and scoped big bores, they don't seem to mind.

500gr Partition at 3.600"
450gr TSX @ 3.565"
450gr BBW @ 3.360"

Thanks for the details on those loads,
.458 WIN+P+ all.


I have to ask what sort of crimp die you use to get that nice step down/neck down crimp in earlier photos? Lee FCD?

Yes, Lee Factory Crimp Die.
You can go from just straightening out any flare on the case mouth to a hard crimp into a groove or cannelure.
They claim you can use it to crimp into a gilding metal jacket without even using a cannelure.
I might try that on a Woodleigh 400-gr PP SN at +2600 fps.
Just make sure it is down to 2500 fps before it hits the varmint, since that is the maximum impact velocity recommended for that bullet.

'Having fun' yes, a great deal of what this hobby is all about.

That was a great UFO-cattle-rustling picture you took, Jerry.
I wonder how many cattle you can get into a UFO that size ?
Suggests a sequel to the movie "Cowboys and Aliens."
How many cattle in a hummingbird feeder UFO ?
Same as the number of angels that can dance on the meplat of a .458 WIN+P+ load.

.458 WIN+P+ nomenclature:

"+P" is for pressure allowed to be as high as in a SAAMI .458 Lott, though usually less in the .458 WIN+P+ than in the .458 Lott doing the same ballistics.

The second "+" is for COL that may be longer than 3.340", whatever you like.
Like that CEB load that is 3.360".
That is a fully qualifying .458 WIN+P+ load.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

A helpful lurker wishes not to be seen as peeing in the Cheerios here,
but he says the following bullet was found to be a tumbler in game and test media when it is fired from an 18" twist at about 1300 fps,
even though it is said to be accurate through the air, on the way to a paper target:



At first blush, I would think that cast bullet might have poor accuracy potential due to the long length of bore-riding nose,
compared to the length of bearing diameter along the shank of the bullet.
But it shoots accurately.
Why would it be a tumbler in game ?

Our friendly lurker fears the 579-gr Blue Bullet might also be a poor performer in game,
even if accurate on paper.
I presume that has to do with the similarity of nose shape.

Here is the naked 46-576N before painting, sizing and gas check install:



The gas check makes a fifth drive band on my bullet.
Harder alloy and faster twist will help it get started straight at entrance to game.
Twist has little to do with stability inside game,
unless there is a "super-cavitation bubble" for the bullet to travel in.
Maybe that "bubble" will be enhanced with the higher velocity possible with a .458 WIN+P+,
as long as that velocity is not high enough to shatter the meplat ?

Length: Most say cast bullets up to 1.4" are good in a 1:18" twist .45-cal BPCR.

In the 1:14" twist, I have been thinking bullets of any monometal copper or brass construction are certainly good to 1.5" length, and heavier lead of that length should be even more stable.

And that reminds me of the .458"/ 500-grain TSX that is super accurate on paper at 2250 fps in the .458 WIN+P+ with 1:14" twist,
but tumbles in a water bucket, even though it expands reliably.
That bullet is 1.650" to 1.670" long in various lots I have measured, often advertised at 1.663" BOL.

.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.