As promised I have the results for Sharps and a couple more tests to boot. I did get an early start, so can report early.

To refresh everyone, these are black powder loads that Sharpsguy sent for tests. He has already used I think all of these loads with great success on several animals, read back on his posts a few days ago please. We tested these same exact loads last week at 22 yds--Todays tests were all at 48 yds.

Today I am going to re-post the 22 yd test first, followed by the 48 yard tests for direct comparison, easier for you to look at instead of having to go back a few pages. Sharps sent 4 loads to test, there will be 4 separate posts on each bullet.

First Up we will look at the 540 gr Flat Nose Cast load.



At 48 yards the # 1 bullet looked really good and gave excellent penetration. The #2 bullet did not fair so well and expanded to the point of limiting penetration greatly. I checked the test medium, nothing abnormal, both passed through the same mix only a few inches apart?

Next let's look at the 511 gr Paper Patch load. A little added distance really helped this bullet stabilize I think. As we see some varied results at 22 yds, we see very consistent results at 48 yds. Now this bullet must be right on the very edge of impact velocity where only a few fps made a big difference for it. Excellent performance at 48 yds, at 22 yds we had one expand a little too much--Velocity difference 30 fps, that is not much. Better stability at 48 yds and less velocity?

One thing to take note of is that the nose flattened on the 48 yd impacts perfectly, it turned into a flat nose or semi flat nose upon impact.

The 470 Flat Nose Load was a bit strange, it seems that more velocity at 22 yd impact actually helped it's penetration. At 48 yds there was less penetration. One of the bullets at 48 yds was bent pretty good, more so than the photo shows. The other expanded quite a bit too.

Now for my favorite of the 4 loads Sharps Sent----520 Round Nose! This bullet 1 did extremely well at 22 yds, 1 gave some expansion at 22 yds. Either bullet would have been fine for buffalo at 22 yds, both giving more than enough penetration. But when we drop back to 48 yds this bullet really shines. The nose deforms somewhat and changes upon impact, as we see not too much to limit penetration, but probably enhances penetration! From the 4 loads I have tested and bullets, this would be my # 1 choice of the 4 to use on buffalo!




Sharps, I have to admire your excellent loading and presentation of your work! I enjoyed shooting them, but I have confirmed once again I really am not a black powder sorta chap! It was fun, thank you for sharing that. I sincerely hope anything I have done here has helped you in some way. I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with any of the bullets or loads at all. All would for sure perform well on game animals. For me on buff, it would be the 520 RN load! But to be perfectly honest, every bullet would meet that criteria, the penetration is there for all of them.

Also I am proud to report that these loads gave my exhaust fans a good workout for sure, but they were up to the task, as smoke was not a problem while doing the black powder tests!

Michael

Now the nasty stuff is out of the way (sorry Sharps-no offense meant) there has been something I have been curious about since receiving the Brass NonCons! At what velocity do the petals remain and not shear off? I decided today was the day to find out. Well, I probably don't have an exact velocity, but at least a better idea, in particular with 1 bullet, the 305 SSK Brass HP. Just taking a guess at some very light loads I made one up for the 458 B&M and one for 45/70. Here they are.



Michael

Petals didn't open, either, which is not unexpected at such a low velocity. The shearing at 1300 was surprising.

I kind-of like the Barnes TSXs that were holding together at 2500-3000 fps.

Tanzan

These Brass NonCons need velocity to operate. They are one bullet that is velocity dependent. The higher, the better. I have tested this same bullet up to 2700 fps in the 458 B&M and it's devastating. But I was also curious about lower end velocity too. This is why you see the slits cut in the petals for sub sonic work!

Michael

Michael--I want to extend a sincere thanks to you for testing these loads/bullets. This has provided me with visual evidence of the effect that varying velocities have on these soft lead bullets.

My results on animals correlate exactly with what these test results demonstrate. The 520 RN bullet has been a proven performer since that bullet came out in 1883, and I have used it for nearly 30 years. I strongly suspected that impact velocities needed to be around 1200fps maximum for this bullet to deliver optimum penetration. This is a very strong indicator of this, if not outright proof. The straight line penetration seen here was in evidence in Africa as well. This bullet shot lengthwise through a Black Wildebeast from ham to exit out of the brisket from 150 yards and was not recovered, after giving 70 inches of penetration through the animal. I also shot through both shoulders of a Blue Wildebeast from 312 yards with a complete pass through with this 520 grain RN.

The 511 RN paper patched bullet shows the same thing. Impact velocity needs to be regulated so that nose deformation doesn't occur, but the bullet will give goodpenetration. I felt it might out penetrate the 520 RN due to its smaller diameter (.435 vs .458) as the weights were fairly close. I have shot through Gemsbok, Zebra, and American Bison with this one, so I knew it would penetrate. Again, test results bear out field experience.

The 470 FN didn't really surprise me. I have used it on American Bison, deer, and hogs over here, and Impala in South Africa. I have not recovered one from an animal yet, but I felt that due to its lighter weight it probably would not penetrate with the other bullets. That may or may not be true but for whatever reason it does not go as deep.

The 540 FN did about what I expected. I really didn't feel it would out penetrate the 520 RN based on the long standing track record of the 520 RN. But then you never know. The lack of consistency of the 540 FN is troubling, and no doubt it would make a good bullet to hunt with at least where maximum penetration is not on the agenda.

Thanks again. This is a huge help. I was leaning strongly toward the 520 RN for Cape Buffalo, but now I KNOW and there will be no second guessing.

Those bullets performed really well! Good test, Michael and sharpsguy! I would love to see the flat nose bullets used with a larger meplat and a harder alloy so they will maintain their nose profile. That said, I truly am impressed!

Great series of tests as usual, Michael. I think there's quite a bit revealed here. The main thing I noticed:

In the tests with the 511 PP and the second set of tests with the 520 RN, I noticed that some bullets went from a RN to a FN! Thereafter, the bullet performed in the way that you would expect a FN would. That is, good straightline penetration. I mention this because I am unashamedly biased towards FN bullets.

416T,
As requested, your post as been annotated in red for the QL data.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
For Capoward,

Would you do a Quickload on comparing Ramshot Hunter over two calibres? I will need to load up some of the bullets in this thread "blind", and then take them around the world for testing. Hopefully, one powder for all.
Legend:
Barrel Length Used: 24”,
Usable Case Capacity: UCC
Charge Weight: CW
Barnes 185 TTSX in 338 WM with Hunter
(guessing about 76-78grains for 3100 fps and 60000psi. what's QL say about the 60k and 64k psi levels?)
QL doesn’t list the 185gr TTSX so I used the 185gr TSX:
UCC 77.5grs; CW 77.5grs = 3105fps & 3960ft-lbs @ 60461 psi.
Barnes 250 TSX in 338WM with Hunter
(looking for 2600-2700 around 60k)
UCC: 71.0grs; CW 67.6grs = 2663fps & 3937ft-lbs @ 60138 psi.
Also, 250 banded solid in 338 WM with Hunter
(Michael said we gotta have some in our back pocket and I think he's right.)
UCC: 73.2grs; CW 69.0grs = 2663fps & 3936ft-lbs @ 58199 psi.
Barnes 350 TSX in 416 Rigby with Hunter
(probably 103-105 grains for2650-2700 fps?
my Norma brass weighs either 328 and 340 grains)
UCC: 107.6grs; CW 102.0grs = 2684fps & 5597ft-lbs @ 54929 psi.
Barnes 350 banded solid 416Rigby with Hunter.
UCC: 110.9grs; CW 104.3grs = 2684fps & 5598ft-lbs @ 53025 psi.
(PS: I have to load up expected final loads to transport (airplanes don't like loose primers and powder these days), but will test and build up and reweigh powder as necessary for the rest of the lot, fret not.)

Hope it helps.

Sharps

You are very welcome, it's a learning experience for me too! I agree with all your assessment and in particular the 520 RN. Yes, you know and that is important going to the field to have that confidence in my opinion. A good choice I think.

I am pleased that the test work was able to help you!!!!!

Whitworth

Thanks buddy, I agree, slightly larger meplat, and harder alloy would bring that 540 up to snuff I think. When I first looked at the bullets, I knew that the 540 was going to be the big dog in the penetration dept, but I was wrong. They all certainly have a use for sure, and will work on a variety of animals and have done so.

Glenn

The nose going flat was the first thing I noticed and it made me think of some of the discussions about some of our solids being run at high velocity, deforming slightly upon impact and helps improve or enlarge the meplat, therefore driving deeper! I think the same thing to a degree is occurring here too. How about that?

Capoward----King of Quickload!!!!!!!!!
LOL

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Capoward----King of Quickload!!!!!!!!!
LOL

Michael

Well Boomy, you called down the Thunder, and I am going to give it to you!!!!!!
Who wanted aluminum bullets tested? Who do you go to for RESULTS?




There you go Boomy, as requested, almost!

No, it's not 4000 fps, but a lowly 3250 fps instead. I received a early UPS today, and it had those in it with other samples. I revisited Mr. Quickload (Capo) post, and saw H-4227, I have instead IMR 4227. So I had to open my Quickload and fumble through it, enter the bullet data, then see what the deal was with IMR 4227. Well, it said 70 grs was getting up close to max, so that's what I did, 70/IMR 4227 and the 100 gr Aluminum bullet. I fired two rounds, one spotter, then this one in the test. The front chronograph would not catch either of them??? Lucky I suppose to get a reading at 22 yd impact.

Well, for normal use I would much prefer the brass bullets at 305. Petals do more damage, penetration is serious, trauma in the medium is more substantial. Trying to think of a use for the aluminum, and I suppose it would be ok for CQB operations, close and the lack of penetration is of value. So far since I am not able to get a starting velocity it is hard to say how far they would hold trajectory, and since only firing two, accuracy is still a question. POI is exactly the same as the 305 Brass HP at 2500 fps. So that is good too! At least at 25 yds. I did not test 48 yds as I had no clue as to where these things might go. I have only a few samples, not sure I will try to work up any more velocity, or if I even have enough to try.

They are pretty however, look like silver bullets! I think I am going to load one just to show off!

So there you go!

Michael

RIP

No, I did not forget my buddy RIP! When samples came, these did too!


Michael

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Capoward----King of Quickload!!!!!!!!!
LOL

Michael

Thank You! Thank you Very Much!
Michael

Thank you, Jim, those are exactly the kind of figures that help.

They are all pretty much what I expected.
Barnes lists 78.5 grains with the 185 and over the phone says to use the same info for TSX and TTSX. I am most concerned with the 60k figure.
If Quickload happens to be 1-2% conservative
and the loads end up 1k psi low, the extra heat in Africa will bring things up 1-4k, which is
still within 'SAAMI'. And if Quickload is 'spot on', and the loads run a little fast/hot when tested, then I can drop a grain or two. We have a chronograph for another layer of testing.

The 250 grain loads look a little on the light side, since those are less than what we used to use with Nosler Partitions in the 80's with the faster IMR4350. But your QL readings give one an idea of where things stand.

It would also appear that there is a big difference in 'bearing length' between the 250TSX and 250BS, giving different readings of 1.4 grains and 2.2 grains 'case capacity'. Barnes lists both the TSX and BS together in their loaddata charts, without acknowledging this, but then gives very anemic max recommendations.

All of this is helpful.

As for the Rigby, I have often joked that with slow powders one could just scoop up a caseful and it would be 'safe'. I like the thought of cool loads, below 60k. Maybe 2700fps is a better all around goal, about 56k psi.

This will all be used, The animals in the forest will put you on their 'friends' list.

Michael,
Very interesting results.

quote:

No, it's not 4000 fps, but a lowly 3250 fps instead. I received a early UPS today, and it had those in it with other samples. I revisited Mr. Quickload (Capo) post, and saw H-4227, I have instead IMR 4227. So I had to open my Quickload and fumble through it, enter the bullet data, then see what the deal was with IMR 4227. Well, it said 70 grs was getting up close to max, so that's what I did, 70/IMR 4227 and the 100 gr Aluminum bullet. I fired two rounds, one spotter, then this one in the test. The front chronograph would not catch either of them??? Lucky I suppose to get a reading at 22 yd impact.

Here’s the relating QL data for IRM 4227:
CW: 70.0 (95.9% UCC) = 3299fps & 2416ft-lbs @ 30390 psi (77.27% propellant burnt).

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Capoward----King of Quickload!!!!!!!!!
LOL

Michael

Thank You! Thank you Very Much!
Michael

MM
do you have all these compiled into a spreadsheet?

quote:

Here’s the relating QL data for IRM 4227:
CW: 70.0 (95.9% UCC) = 3299fps & 2416ft-lbs @ 30390 psi (77.27% propellant burnt).

quote:

Damn Jim, that is spot on!!!! I am not using my Quickload right, I don't get the numbers you are getting! I am not going to read the book either! Damn! You piss me off! KING DADDY OF QUICKLOAD! OK, I can't read, so get on a plane, get over here, teach me what I am doing wrong with mine! No, I am not going to do it on the phone and not by email, only in person! I don't want to hear crap about the labor pains, show me the baby! I don't have enough patience with some things I think!

Excellent Job! That has to be right on the money! 22 yds impact--3258 fps! You see, that's why I ask you first anymore! Just did not have any H-4227 left. In fact I think that H-4227 has been discontinued? That's why I got IMR 4227? I think?



Michael

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
MM
do you have all these compiled into a spreadsheet?

Yes so happens I do!

Awesome!!!

Well they penetrated great and trauma galore is what you want for pesky humans and critters. Would be great to stop an intruder and not go through the next wall.

Can you load them backwards to see how it does as a flat point solid? Wound channel and depth is what will make these great. seems even at 3,000 ish fps they will be a killer.

Still curious about what they do @ 4,000 fps

Question... would you rather be shot with a 223 or one of these @ 3000 + fps.

Id rather get hit with a 223.

If shot with the aluminum bullets I don't think the hospital would save me,

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Well Boomy, you called down the Thunder, and I am going to give it to you!!!!!!
Who wanted aluminum bullets tested? Who do you go to for RESULTS?




There you go Boomy, as requested, almost!

No, it's not 4000 fps, but a lowly 3250 fps instead. I received a early UPS today, and it had those in it with other samples. I revisited Mr. Quickload (Capo) post, and saw H-4227, I have instead IMR 4227. So I had to open my Quickload and fumble through it, enter the bullet data, then see what the deal was with IMR 4227. Well, it said 70 grs was getting up close to max, so that's what I did, 70/IMR 4227 and the 100 gr Aluminum bullet. I fired two rounds, one spotter, then this one in the test. The front chronograph would not catch either of them??? Lucky I suppose to get a reading at 22 yd impact.

Well, for normal use I would much prefer the brass bullets at 305. Petals do more damage, penetration is serious, trauma in the medium is more substantial. Trying to think of a use for the aluminum, and I suppose it would be ok for CQB operations, close and the lack of penetration is of value. So far since I am not able to get a starting velocity it is hard to say how far they would hold trajectory, and since only firing two, accuracy is still a question. POI is exactly the same as the 305 Brass HP at 2500 fps. So that is good too! At least at 25 yds. I did not test 48 yds as I had no clue as to where these things might go. I have only a few samples, not sure I will try to work up any more velocity, or if I even have enough to try.

They are pretty however, look like silver bullets! I think I am going to load one just to show off!

So there you go!

Michael

For that tested ones those look like the 96 grainers and not the 100 grainers.

So what was the muzzle flash and recoil like?

Boomy

You are correct! I did shoot the 96 gr bullet, not the 100 gr bullet! I am sorry, got the label wrong.


No Recoil at all---No Muzzle flash at all.

As for higher velocity, maybe a little more trauma, penetration? If like the brass then penetration would be a little more.

For CQB operations, Marlin Guide Gun, or 1886 stoked with them for home protection, limited penetration is a plus. Plenty of penetration for pesky critters.

Might be a really interesting bullet for the 458 B&M SA? If it would operate the system?

I can't get over how pretty they are! I do love a good looking bullet! Werewolf bullets eh?

M

No recoil is a good thing to teach the kids how to shoot.

Next time you get to loading these CQC special purpose bullets try loading a couple backwards to see the penetration and wound channel.

Interested if they might be good on a deer size game with a flat point,

Thanks again Michael.

At least you have proven these are ideal low or no recoil bullets great for home defense!!!

And you are having a blast

I assume the 100 grainers will act differently because the petals will sheer off most likely at the crimp groove so maybe a heavier solid shank.

Maybe a 120 grain flat point might be good for deer size game.

416T,

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Barnes lists 78.5 grains with the 185 and over the phone says to use the same info for TSX and TTSX. I am most concerned with the 60k figure.
If Quickload happens to be 1-2% conservative and the loads end up 1k psi low, the extra heat in Africa will bring things up 1-4k, which is still within 'SAAMI'. And if Quickload is 'spot on', and the loads run a little fast/hot when tested, then I can drop a grain or two. We have a chronograph for another layer of testing.

If you’re concerned with African’ heat messing with your velocity and pressure levels then why not utilize Hodgdon’s H4350, one of their Extreme powders which they list to be very stable with very little velocity deviation in the 0º-125º temperature range. I’ve added a H4350 powder listing to your earlier Hunter data request:

quote:

Legend:
Barrel Length Used: 24”,
Usable Case Capacity: UCC
Charge Weight: CW
Ramshot Hunter
Hodgdon H4350
Barnes 185 TTSX in 338 WM with Hunter
(guessing about 76-78grains for 3100 fps and 60000psi. what's QL say about the 60k and 64k psi levels?)
QL doesn’t list the 185gr TTSX so I used the 185gr TSX:
UCC 77.5grs; CW 77.5grs = 3105fps & 3960ft-lbs @ 60461 psi.
UCC 77.5grs; CW 74.4grs = 3108fps & 3967ft-lbs @ 60599 psi.
Barnes 250 TSX in 338WM with Hunter
(looking for 2600-2700 around 60k)
UCC: 71.0grs; CW 67.6grs = 2663fps & 3937ft-lbs @ 60138 psi.
UCC 71.0grs; CW 65.0grs = 2665fps & 3944ft-lbs @ 60405 psi.
Also, 250 banded solid in 338 WM with Hunter
(Michael said we gotta have some in our back pocket and I think he's right.)
UCC: 73.2grs; CW 69.0grs = 2663fps & 3936ft-lbs @ 58199 psi.
UCC 73.2grs; CW 66.4grs = 2667fps & 3950ft-lbs @ 58647 psi.
Barnes 350 TSX in 416 Rigby with Hunter
(probably 103-105 grains for2650-2700 fps?
my Norma brass weighs either 328 and 340 grains)
UCC: 107.6grs; CW 102.0grs = 2684fps & 5597ft-lbs @ 54929 psi.
UCC: 107.6grs; CW 98.0grs = 2686fps & 5605ft-lbs @ 55135.
Barnes 350 banded solid 416Rigby with Hunter.
UCC: 110.9grs; CW 104.3grs = 2684fps & 5598ft-lbs @ 53025 psi.
UCC: 110.9grs; CW 100.2grs = 2686fps & 5607ft-lbs @ 53236 psi.

Looks like H4350 would fit your needs without being concerned with velocity and pressure issues due to temperature changes. Here’s a link to Hodgdon’s Extreme Powder comparison data:
http://www.hodgdon.com/smokele...xtreme/page2.php#top

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The 250 grain loads look a little on the light side, since those are less than what we used to use with Nosler Partitions in the 80's with the faster IMR4350. But your QL readings give one an idea of where things stand.

It would also appear that there is a big difference in 'bearing length' between the 250TSX and 250BS, giving different readings of 1.4 grains and 2.2 grains 'case capacity'. Barnes lists both the TSX and BS together in their loaddata charts, without acknowledging this, but then gives very anemic max recommendations.

Not sure what range you’re planning on using the 250gr TSX/BND SLD bullets at. Not sure if I correctly remember the sequence but I believe that the recommendation is to match the TSX velocity to the BND SLD velocity to assure a similar trajectory to preserve the same sighting data.

Anyway, to test this…keeping a 3” max bullet trajectory above line of bore…I ran the .338 WinMag QL data through QuickTARGET, using the BND SLD as the benchmark and then comparing the TSX to the BND SLD trajectory. Here’s what QT gives:
BND SLD: Peak Height of 3” @ 98.24yds and PBR @ 175yds
TSX: Peak Height of 2.76” @ 98.24yds and PBR @ 186yds

I would think this would serve you well in the USA for elk and bear and for African plains game.

Michael,
You are a machine! Just banging out the truth.
Thanks for the good work.
I suggest you investigate smuggling GSC bullets
in the inlaws' luggage when they come to visit,
or investigate the legality and limits on the gifts
that they may bring to you, or that you may haul out
yourself, VAT, etc., for personal use.
please keep it to yourself if you must roll naked
in another pile of bullets.
I do like those Whisper bullets in .458.
They would turn the .458 B&M Whaler into a
.458 B&M Peacekeeper.
The 528 & 526-grainers single loaded to +2150 fps
would be good for 1000 yard plinking.
Very versatile, that .458 B&M Peacekeeper Whale Whisperer!
How does one purchase those bullets?
I have not seen a link to "bullets" on the SSK site???
Letter Rip

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Here’s the relating QL data for IRM 4227:
CW: 70.0 (95.9% UCC) = 3299fps & 2416ft-lbs @ 30390 psi (77.27% propellant burnt).

quote:

Damn Jim, that is spot on!!!! I am not using my Quickload right, I don't get the numbers you are getting! I am not going to read the book either! Damn! You piss me off! KING DADDY OF QUICKLOAD! OK, I can't read, so get on a plane, get over here, teach me what I am doing wrong with mine! No, I am not going to do it on the phone and not by email, only in person! I don't want to hear crap about the labor pains, show me the baby! I don't have enough patience with some things I think!

Excellent Job! That has to be right on the money! 22 yds impact--3258 fps! You see, that's why I ask you first anymore! Just did not have any H-4227 left. In fact I think that H-4227 has been discontinued? That's why I got IMR 4227? I think?


Michael

Ok...no H4227...do you have any Hodgdon Lil'Gun? Here's the QL on it with 100gr SST Aluminim HP:
458 B&M: UCC: 86.5grs, CW: 86.5grs = 4339fps & 4181ft-lbs @ 61777 psi (99.88% propellant burnt).
QuickTARGET indicates with 150yd zero, peak trajectory is 2.44" @ 113.86yds and PBR of 193yds. Someone needs to get these critters outside for testing!

RIP

""How does one purchase those bullets?""

The best thing to do, is call Brian. He will sort David out on the right deal!

As for the web site, well there was a lot of changes supposed to have been made, 5 yrs ago!!! LOL. I don't think the web site is at the top of JDs list of things to do! It should be however, and it will eventually get changed one day.

Now for the bullets, My wife's father lives close to where Gerard is I think! If I could get him to quit chasing girls long enough to go pick up some bullets? He is a wild one!

Oh my man, rolling naked in a batch of brand new shiny bullets that are laid out on new buffalo leather is a hoot! I think everyone should try it! You boys don't know what you are missing!!

458 B&M PKW!

See those sub sonic big HPs? Wicked.



Boomy

Nah the 100s won't do anything any different from the 96s. Just not enough weight there either way to make a difference, at least any substantial difference.

As for hunting, even deer, well the bullet would do for penetration, but I am just not so sure how far it carries, very light. Accuracy? A lot of work would need to be done before going too far I think. More than just penetration tests.

Zero recoil, no flash, limited penetration, yes, one looks at lot's of good uses for those type things. Every bullet can find a purpose, eh? A failure in one area, is an attribute in another! One must look at everything and find purpose!

Michael

Jim,

Can you check your quickload for this load:

470 Nitro Express
Jamison Brass
500 grain Woodleigh Solid
Remington 9 1/2M Primer
48 grains Accurate 5744

Rifle
Kreighoff Double
24" Barrels

Velocity????
Pressure????

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:


Michael

Ok...no H4227...do you have any Hodgdon Lil'Gun? Here's the QL on it with 100gr SST Aluminim HP:
458 B&M: UCC: 86.5grs, CW: 86.5grs = 4339fps & 4181ft-lbs @ 61777 psi (99.88% propellant burnt).
QuickTARGET indicates with 150yd zero, peak trajectory is 2.44" @ 113.86yds and PBR of 193yds. Someone needs to get these critters outside for testing![/QUOTE]



Get these aluminum outside? ------We had 40 mph winds here today! NO telling where they would have went!

I have some Lil'Gun, 1 lb of it. It's supposed to be a kick ass powder for 500 SW, so I figured it should test good in the 50 B&M Super Short too. Just have not got around to it yet.

How about 80 grs Lil Gun----how about WW296, I have lbs of that for the super short? Sometimes I have a hard time thinking about putting traditional handgun powders in the rifles, especially 80 grs of it??? Just one of those old conventional things!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Jim,

Can you check your quickload for this load:
[QUOTE]

Jim

Can you check this for me



Jim The Quickload KING!!!!!!

OK OK, all jokes aside, Jim has Quickload covered, up, down,inside, outside, 110%. I need him to come give me lessons!

Mike, that's not at your expense, just a joke I have going with Capo, no offense meant! Funny, I am laughing my ass of now!

Michael

I agree with you.

These do have a great niche.

I think a 120 grain flat nose aluminum bullet would be good for small game and deer at farther distances.

Just need to get someone with a lathe to make some

quote:

Boomy

Nah the 100s won't do anything any different from the 96s. Just not enough weight there either way to make a difference, at least any substantial difference.

As for hunting, even deer, well the bullet would do for penetration, but I am just not so sure how far it carries, very light. Accuracy? A lot of work would need to be done before going too far I think. More than just penetration tests.

Zero recoil, no flash, limited penetration, yes, one looks at lot's of good uses for those type things. Every bullet can find a purpose, eh? A failure in one area, is an attribute in another! One must look at everything and find purpose!

Mike70560,
QL data in red:

quote:

470 Nitro Express
500 grain Woodleigh Solid
48 grains Accurate 5744
24" Barrels
Velocity????
Pressure????
UCC: 146.0grs, CW: 48.0grs = 1681fps & 3138ft-lbs @ 23663 psi (99.87% propellant burnt).

Michael,
QL data in red:

quote:

How about 80 grs Lil Gun
UCC: 86.5grs, CW: 80.0grs = 4013fps & 3575ft-lbs @ 46030 psi (98.17% propellant burnt)
----how about WW296
UCC: 86.5grs, CW: 86.5grs = 4231fps & 3974ft-lbs @ 57351 psi (93.36% propellant burnt)
UCC: 86.5grs, CW: 80.0grs = 3890fps & 3359ft-lbs @ 43550 psi (88.73% propellant burnt)

I’m thinking that Boomy is correct that these aluminum bullets could be some interesting animals. I think that your 470gr .500” SST Copper HP cut in aluminum should weight somewhere in the 140gr-150gr range in weight make a rather nifty splatter round in the .500 caliber cartridges. I did a QL workup as follows:
50 B&M with 18” barrel w/145gr .500” SST HP Aluminum bullet, Hodgdon Lil’Gun powder;
UCC: 69.9grs, CW: 69.9 = 3430fps & 3788ft-lbs @ 50383 psi (97.77% propellant burnt)
Or how about this:
500 MDM with 22” barrel w/145gr .500” SST HP Aluminum bullet, Hodgdon Lil’Gun powder;
UCC: 97.2grs, CW: 90.0 = 3917fps & 4939ft-lbs @ 60301 psi (100.0% propellant burnt)
Boy that pistol powder seems to work pretty well with the aluminum bullets!

Could verify with David what the 470gr .500 SST HP Copper would weight when cut from the aluminum he used for the .458’s?

Oops...almost forgot!

WOW!!!

A 150 grain .500" bullet getting 4,000 fps and 5,000 FPE would be WILD!!!

An aluminum warthog bullet!

And a bunch of 500 S&W shooters would love a break from recoil lol

maybe a 100 grain .500" pistol bullet @ 2,000 FPS

Capo...
You might "Need" some aluminum 200 grain 577 bullets for your project

Thanks, looks like a safe load in the old 470. I am assuming the 15 tons the 470 was designed for equals 30k PSI.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Thanks, looks like a safe load in the old 470. I am assuming the 15 tons the 470 was designed for equals 30k PSI.

Mike I'm not sure what 15 tons equates to psi wise, but the current Piezo CIP standard for the 470 NE is Pmax 2700 bar/39160 psi.