Why Hell Yes! A Raptor, without intention of Talon Tip! Yep, that might just be the Ticket for that purpose Sam! Good thought boomy, I knew I kept you around for a reasoN! HEH.........

I also received some other NEW Raptors today. I know one was a 100 gr 6.5, which I think is going to do the trick for .264. I can't remember what else was there, but we will also put that in the test plan for next week as well.

We never stop here you know! If I can sneak out a bit tomorrow I intend to try some things on the range!

HEH.........

13 More Days to DSC!

LOL

Michael

quote:

13 More Days to DSC!

See you there!!

Keith

That's what I'm here for. To apply my OCD and ideas to gun stuff.
Being the Jeffery is for 100 yards or less the bands placed in the center are ideal and traditional weight with identical POI. I'd like to see a 400 grain tipped .510 and .500 raptor for 300 yard PG hunting from the magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
That's what I'm here for. To apply my OCD and ideas to gun stuff.
Being the Jeffery is for 100 yards or less the bands placed in the center are ideal and traditional weight with identical POI. I'd like to see a 400 grain tipped .510 and .500 raptor for 300 yard PG hunting from the magazine.

If I might make a recommendation for the BB bolt guns… We already know that the light to very light for caliber .500 bullet give very good terminal penetration performance so I recommend that we not set a “target weights” …instead design each BB caliber Raptor to fit within the magazine with tip inserted and let the weight fall where it falls.

Regarding DRs… I realize regulation is the primary issue regarding weight…but in .510 caliber, if a 535gr will regulate…pretty much same SD as the 500gr .500 caliber…would a 480gr Raptor possibly regulate properly? And, why not use the Tip Inserts with a DR Raptor…from the testing it appears that the TIs enhance both the depth of damage by the sheared petals as well as the total penetration depth of the shank. Just some thoughts.

Finally…MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEARS TO ALL!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Changing the subject I have question for you .510 shooters. I'm thinking of maybe getting Dan to make a run of .510 solids and non cons. I want to make a 535 solid and a 500 non con. These would be perfect for the Jeffery shooters and those 500 double guys that want a lighter bullet. I shot my Sabatti 500 today with 535 gr Woodleigh softs and it was going in a ragged hole.
If any of you are interested let me know. I don't need 250 of each right now. If there is enough interest I'll get a run done.

Sam

I need to wait for the lightweight .510 Raptors. Even then, I will probably only need 100. I just don't get to shoot that often.

Great tests, Michael, and thank you for using the 48 yard impact velocity setup. That allows a better calculation of BC.

The following are only based on the above stats from 23 Dec 2011 but they give a ballpark figure:

.366" 210 non-con reflects a .136 BC.

.366" 210 Raptor reflects a .404 BC.

.366" 210 BBW#13 solid reflects a .136 BC.

Your chronograph work looks pretty consistent. It points to about a .4 or .4+ BC for the medium bores. We can expect that the BC will rise as we go up to the .500" and .510" bores. The bullets will be relatively 'squat' while the tip will have a more significant percentage of the length, so I'm guessing that they might get an extra 0.050 or 0.100 BC, perhaps reaching .450 and .500 BC. We'll have to wait and see. In any case the Raptors will make a significant difference of several inches less drop out at 300 yards.
Can't wait to see the look on an hartebeest's lonesome face when hit with 4000+ foot pounds of an exploding tip Raptor out at 300 yards.

Using .450 as a BC and 2600 fps for a 450 grain Raptor, a 2.8" high zero at 100 yards is only down
-7.5" at 300 and still has 2076 fps and 4304 ftlbs.
Assuming a 400 grain Raptor, still .45 BC and now 2725 fps, we get the following at
300 yards:
-5.8" at 2186 fps and 4244 ftlb
400 yards:
-20.5" at 2021 fps and 3627 ftlbs.

That would be getting close to hunting with my old 338 and hot 416 trajectories. I know you guys are trying to wean me off of long range calibres, but FLAT is FLAT.

I love FLAT 416Tanzan

Merry Christmas to everyone!

Hope you all will have a great and peaceful holiday

I cut my 1885 Browning from 28" to 22" .Not a velocity problem with 45-70. Much better weight and length [37"] for woods hunting . "Looks right" .I gave it lots of thought and found barrel should be no shorter than twice the length of the forend. Checked the looks of many Civil War carbines which typically had 20-22" barrels .
Find some 40" stockings so Santa can get a proper gun into them !! Merry Christmas

Capo
Options are good. I think Sam just wants a custom run for him but that could lead to a subcatagory not a replacement for the Raptors. Some like traditional weights like the other non cons and solids. A 535 grain switcheroo would be strictly for up close mag feed. The Raptors are the most flexible for sure.

New bullets--On the way! Also I am told there is a little "Christmas Surprise" in with this shipment? Hmmmmm? I am thinking it might be some Medium Bore Raptors? Maybe some big bore Raptors?? I don't know?

.620 Carnivores???

.177 BBW#13 Solids for those dangerous charging field mice

Good Morning Boys! And again, Merry Christmas, Next Happy New Year, and better still 12 days to DSC, and yes Keith I will see you there and hopefully many many of you guys as well!

Tanz, you can shoot too far! I can't see that far! LOL........ But I tell you, I am LIKING MY NEW NIKONS---A LOT!!!!!!!!!!! They are doing extremely well thus far, and I have that Slug Master on the meanest, scope busting SOB of a rifle ever to be invented by man--50 B&M! And it ain't busted yet! The Africans are doing extremely well, and getting a good bit of heavy rounds through them. I just sighted in and started playing with the 2X8 Nikon on the 19 inch 9.3 the other day--Excellent! If this keeps up, I am totally converted to these Nikons! And pal that is a BIG DEAL! There has been no more devoted Leupold fan the Michael458 over many many years! Things Change!

Mete

I love a 1885 Winchester! My most FAVORITE Single Shot ever! I love them so good I had a 50 B&M built with 22 Inch barrel, a 458 B&M Built with a 24 inch barrel, and a 416 B&M with a 24 inch barrel. An 1885 with 22 inches of barrel is the same over all length as a 18 Inch B&M Bolt gun, and 24 inch barrel is equal to a 20 inch B&M bolt gun. Handles like a DREAM! I hope I live long enough to eventually take some of them to the field. Just so much I have not had time to do yet! Including the 50 B&M Alaskan lever guns, and none of the Super Shorts, myself anyway. Lot's to do.

Sasquatch

I canceled ALL CARNIVORE projects and research. Couple of reasons why, first I was not getting a real consistent shear, penetration and performance. No performance was bad, but just not as consistent as I would like. It was becoming a pain to try and get those extra long blades to come off correctly and consistent. Then, the RAPTOR came along! Being light for caliber, and all that extra velocity, it can easy take the place of the Carnivore in the Thin Skinned Dangerous Game arena. Not only that, if the Raptor is stable, and they will be once completed, then the shear, trauma, and performance is 100% consistent all the way. It should be, in the NonCon role, it's a BBW#13 with the same depth of cavity. With the Raptors in place, there is no need for a Carnivore any longer. And too, the standard BBW#13 just performs so well and so consistent there was not much of a need for a Carnivore to begin with. There are no plans to continue with that research.

Raptors in .620? HEH HEH.....Well anything is possible I suppose!

Enjoy
Michael

quote:

The Talon Tips for these are a tad too long for my B&M, so I am going to have Dan make a new shorter tip, it may only be for the B&Ms. Since it will be shorter and stubbier, it won't have as good a BC as this one.

Will seating the Teflon Tiped Raptor down one more band solve the problem? I know that will reduce the powder capacity some what but there seems to be plenty of velocity in hand so that a slight reduction in velocity should not hurt.

Merry Christmas to all

IBT

DocM, Sam, and all the others here. A very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all. Long may the tribes prosper.

Saeed Ansari

Merry Christmas to all of you!

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Merry Christmas to all of you!

Sam

Ditto what Sam said.

Also, Sam, I could use some .510/535-grain CEB NonCons, and a Raptor of that weight would really be sweet.
Ditto a Raptor .500-caliber in the 400 to 500-grain weight range.

I see that I can order .375-caliber/230-grain Raptor from the CEB website now, nice.

Thanks y'all for all the good work.
It has been another good year in the works, at The "MIB Bullet Werkes."
May the New Year be just as good, in whatever ways that may be ...

Rip,

OK I'm going to make a few test Raptors in 535 gr before we move on this. I'll talk with Dan after I get a design I like and see if we can make a run.

Sam

[QUOTE]Originally posted by srose:



This was the first one I did a while back.

To all on this thread. . . . Have a great Xmas!

Have a great Christmas and a great Hunt in the New Year!!!!

Cheers, John

Aaahhhh... The original Raptor. The Switcheroo. How much did that weigh? Maybe a 3 band? This design can actually SAVE you money if you need both.
Looks like the 6mm and 225 grain 338 is up for sale on the site now www.cuttingedgebullets.com

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by srose:



This was the first one I did a while back.

Michael,

Thanks for the update! On another note, I still have 4 boxes of the small cavity .375 NonCon. I would like to know if there is any difference in penetration or is it just minimum shear velocity? I have a great load for the larger cavity. If my magazine were longer I might try "tipping" them.

Merry Christmas all!

quote:

Tanz, you can shoot too far! I can't see that far! LOL........ But I tell you, I am LIKING MY NEW NIKONS---A LOT!!!!!!!!!!! They are doing extremely well thus far, and I have that Slug Master on the meanest, scope busting SOB of a rifle ever to be invented by man--50 B&M! And it ain't busted yet! The Africans are doing extremely well, and getting a good bit of heavy rounds through them. I just sighted in and started playing with the 2X8 Nikon on the 19 inch 9.3 the other day--Excellent! If this keeps up, I am totally converted to these Nikons! And pal that is a BIG DEAL! There has been no more devoted Leupold fan the Michael458 over many many years! Things Change!

Michael, thank you for the scope update.

As you know, I don't get to shoot my rifles enough to adequately push the limits on our scopes and your tests are very helpful. "Reliability, eye-relief, and clarity" are the most important triad for me and I can only control the last two. We started using Nikon three years ago on some good recommendations and haven't had any problems. I did rip the aluminum mount retaining pin from recoil on a Tikka 338WM. Nikon scope held up, Tikka replaced the rings, but I've switched to steel Warne rings for the stateside rifle.

A side note on another "shotgun" scope Minox 1.5-8 (4"-4"+ eyerelief and excellent glass): Minox rebate season ends next week. Capoward has one.

I had an early Nikon Monarch on a Ruger 338 boatpaddle gun that kicked like a mule and loved the hell out of the scope. It was the sharpest damn recoil and the Nikon held up perfectly. Was a great sub-moa gun out of the box and like a dumb ass I sold it. I think NIkon scopes are a teeny bit 'brighter' to my eyes but still love and have only Leupolds at the moment. I would consider Nikon again in the future though. Quality stuff!

Good Morning and Merry Christmas! Today is the day You Know! I plan on a very peaceful and hopefully quite day!

Of course being myself I had to do some "Peaking" under the tree last night! I found myself with a very nice set of "Ceramic Knives" that "Santa" had brought to me! Very excellent looking items, not being a knife kinda chap I don't know much about them, but wow, do they look great! I will be trying those out!

Santa also brought me a new black leather Lazy Boy, I already tried that out last night for about a 2 hour snooze, and found it works great!

I hope Santa also dropped by your places as well and was as kind to you as he was me, but like the good chap I am, if he did not do so, Well, I have mine! HEH.......

quote:

Will seating the Teflon Tiped Raptor down one more band solve the problem? I know that will reduce the powder capacity some what but there seems to be plenty of velocity in hand so that a slight reduction in velocity should not hurt.

IBT, you should know better by now! Yes, I could seat the Talon Tip Raptor deeper, and tried that. It was still a tad long for the magazine, and just did not look exactly right to me. Reduce Powder? No man, I just mash it on in there until it crunches and munches! HEH......... I like those seated to the top of the middle band, or second one down. Looks good that way! I think the tips are a tad long anyway for these. From bottom of the base of the tip, to the TIP not including the post of course, only the part sticking out, is .480 inches long. Near 1/2 inch. I want a tip that is redesigned to be .280 inches long from base to tip. This gives me room to play in the magazine. Now, yes it might cut BC some, but I will sacrifice some BC.

Speaking of BC, now I don't know about my program if its on or not, or if I have the right drag model in, but I came up with a bit different BC than Tanz, I get .204 with the NonCon No Tip, .201 with the Solid Raptor, and .386 with the Talon Tip Raptor. But like I said I am not so sure about my program, drag model, and so forth. ??? Will let Dan set the BC he has a lot more experience with that than me.

RIP--Good to hear from you, it's been a week or two, three! Was wondering where you were! .500 Raptor--I have been thinking something around 400 grs, and .510 from 425-450 max. But this is just guess and thinking, Will let Dan plug it in, see how long it is and go from there. This is of course the standard Raptor when we get to that point. I received also a modified 50 gr .224 Raptor, it's really more of a BBW#13 than the Raptor. We have been talking about some of the small bore Raptors, like 224, and the 40 gr Raptor is the .224 Ticket, going heavier has given us stability and accuracy issues with lot's of common rifles. So if there is a "Heavier" Raptor in some of these small bores, then it will probably not be a real Raptor, but modified and more like a BBW#13 NonCon, and I concur with that. Maybe in small bores, a good stable light for caliber real Raptor, then a heavier modified version. Raptors have been a little more difficult to bring on than the bigger BBW#13 DG Bullets. But wow, when they are RIGHT---They are RIGHT! I also got a new 100 gr 6.5 or .264 Raptor this past week, Friday I think. This will be right I think, 110 was close, 100 should be spot on.

Medium Bore and bigger bore Raptors I think will be easier to deal with than the rat guns. This 9.3 210 Raptor is kicking ass in all areas, terminals and accuracy! Just get a shorter tip for me, I will be good to go!

Hoping too some of the 338s come along, looking for myself a 200 gr Raptor in .338. Maybe another 200-210 in .358 too. But I am looking really forward to getting to 416 and up! This is where I live daily, 416 +.

quote:

Thanks for the update! On another note, I still have 4 boxes of the small cavity .375 NonCon. I would like to know if there is any difference in penetration or is it just minimum shear velocity? I have a great load for the larger cavity. If my magazine were longer I might try "tipping" them.

Sasquatch, No difference to amount to anything I can see in penetration, just minimum shear velocity is effected. I still have a good many of those small cavity in .458s as well. I have been using those to do load data, accuracy, things like that. Very good for that. And, makes use of the bullets. As for the tips on the Standard BBW#13 NonCon DG Bullets, they will always be too long for nearly any magazine gun, just add a tipped to the chambered round, NonCons or Solids to the bottom in the magazine.

Now while in the beginning I could care less about the tip on the BBW#13 NonCon HP, but something I have to "Concede" is the fact that some Dangerous Game, as horrible as this is, and sometimes very much a "SIN" to do, is shot at the extra LONG RANGE of 50 yds or so! Hell, I am even GUILTY of this horrible and sinful act myself! If you have a tip in that NonCon up front, you do indeed get a hell of a lot more IMPACT VELOCITY at 50 yds than you would without. It will work of course both ways, with or without, but we do know for a fact that the BBW#13 NonCon does like velocity, and just works MORE with any extra velocity. So when I go to the field next time, my first round will have a Talon Tip in the end of it, backed by either standard NonCons or BBW#13 Solids in the magazine to followup with!

Dan finally sent me some Big Bore Talon Tips that are designed for the big bore BBW#13 NonCons, I will do some work with these in the coming weeks and see how much harder we hit at 50 yds than we do with a standard BBW#13 NonCon, then we know what we have and can do.

Tanz, Yes I understand completely about many of you not being able to get the volume of shooting in as you would like to do. I am fairly confident in saying that most all that are on this thread or even look at it shoot more than the typical normal everyday hunter. Of which I find if most were to shoot a 100 rounds of big bore in a year, that would be a lot of shooting for some of them. Here, we will easy do that in a day doing test work. Just last week in one day I shot nearly a 100 rounds of 500 MDM. And in most any week there will be a few hundred rounds shot big bore. Now this is mostly all test work, load data, pressure data, terminals, and other projects I have going on, and most all of it from the benches, and I dare say it's really not making me a better shot at all, and in fact I may be a worse shot off hand because of it. But, you can't do test work off hand, you can't sight in scopes off hand, you can't shoot thru two chronos consistently off hand, you can't do really any of the test work off hand, it has to be benched, end of story. So what do you do?

Things get tested here no doubt about it. A scope or rifle or anything else will get put through the ringer. Many of the scopes I have broken, may very well last many folks a life time without an issue or problem, and here, I bust them in a week, sometimes less! No Crap BuckWheat, this is the "Torture Chamber"............. Because of this alone, there are some things I can speak with some authority on. But one also has to realize I may do something here in a week that might take a regular hunter or occasional shooter years to do, or possibly never achieve.

Problem is that I work on so many different projects that I might not get to a particular rifle or scope for some weeks on end while working on another higher priority issue. So some things get delayed and what have you until I have a project with that cartridge or rifle. Right now with 4 Nikons and only shooting those, then I can get a pretty decent idea of how they are going to hold up. As for clarity, with my eyes I see extremely better through the Nikons, with no glasses on, than I do with any other scope I have here. My Eyes? Maybe? But that is a fact. Another point Tanz did not mention that is of extreme importance to me is "Field Of View", which is as good or even better than anything I have worked with in the past. I did not like the 1X4 African much when I first got it a year or so ago. Eyepiece bigger than I was used to, adjustment knobs bigger than I was used to, slightly longer than I was used to, but I am getting used to this, and it's clearer to me, and adjustment is positive and excellent, field of view is incredibly good at very close range, 10 yds and less! So I am overcoming some of those first little negative issues I had because of the quality I am seeing. Now I might bust one all to hell this coming week, but right now, I am a changed man! HEH................ I can only speak for me, and not argue the point there are a lot of good glass out there, but this is working good for me. Of course the price may be way too good for some folks that just feel they must spend at least a $1000 if not more on glass or they have something cheap! Those big $$ ones break too, I know! So I figure I just as soon have 3 of these Nikons for the price of one of those others! That should get me through any adventure I might embark upon, and have options, that one $1000 rig might break too, and if you don't have a second one because of price.................!!! Well who knows?

That's my story for today boys! Ya'll have a great Christmas, my girls are still sleeping away, but I am sure it won't be long a little one will be up and running. By the way, Mercedes is turning into one hell of a good Lab Assistant! She came in the other day and assisted with using the RCBS Chargemasters dumping powder in prepared cases! Excellent job she did. Yesterday morning I was doing the same with 100 9.3 fire form loads, going to make some brass this week. She came in, took over both Chargemasters, dumped all the powder in each of them, then I taught her how to seat the bullets, and she did all of them, ON HER OWN! She was so good at it and so careful, that I proceeded to work on other things in the lab while she did this. I would of course supervise some, but I found nothing, and let her go to it! Something I could never do with those two boys of mine, they simply tear things up the minute you turn your back on them! So they are Banned From Loading! HEH HEH.........

Enjoy and again, Merry Christmas to all!

Michael

Merry Christmas Michael,

Just remember when you call for a toast at the dinner table, all of those faces looking at you are your fortune.
Peace be with you today.

Cheers, John

I've been doing some fiddling and musing about the BC's and trajectories on the Raptors and Solids. Basically, I am asking what trajectory a solid would follow if the same scope setting is used for the Solid that was set for the Raptor.

It looks like things will be fine at 50 yards but there will be a slight difference at 100 yards if the scope settings are left the same.

A 425 Raptor at 2700 fps and assumed .450 BC can be expected to print
1.3" high at 50 yards and
2.8" high at 100 yards. This will produce a trajectory that only reaches 3 inches at the maximum arc. It will be
1.5" high at 200 yards and
-6.1 low at 300 yards. The real world elevation of the barrel would be 6.455 minute-of-angle.

Then for comparison,
a 425 BBW#13 Solid with a .136 BC at 2700 fps and using the same real world elevation of the barrel at 6.455 M-o-A:
this combination should print a bullet at
1.2" high at 50 yards. For practical matters that is the same point of impact as the Raptor.
HOWEVER, at 100 yards the bullet will only print
2.4" high. The overall max arc will only reach 2.5" high at 108 yards and will be
-1.6" low at 200 yards and
-19.4 inches low at 300 yards. The energy drops to 3000 foot pounds at around 165 yards. All of this is with the same elevation settings on the scope.

So the BC will only result in a visible height difference starting around 100 yards, and dropping quickly after that. That should be perfect for any charging bovine, where the trajectory inside 100 yards is virtually identical. However, a second shot at a fleeing animal will have quite a different trajectory from a Raptor from beyond 150 yards. We've known that of course, I just wanted to calculate the difference at my sight-in range of 100 yards.

Everyone…
I hope you’ve all had a safe and wonderful Christmas. We had a wonderful family celebration on Christmas Eve - all of our children made it home safely last night and are preparing for another celebration with their in-laws’ expanded family later today.

Tan…
LOL... I actually have 4 Minox scopes; 2 @ 1.5-8s and 2 @ 2-10s...and so far I really like them – especially the nice consistent 4” – 4 ¼” eye box and very clear optics… Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to use them with heavy kickers yet…only little 300 SAUM rat rifles…

Michael…
Definitely looks like you have a winner with Mercedes…quality bench partner is hard to find!

.500 caliber Raptors…
I believe the proposed 400gr Raptors would work just fine. Not sure if they’ll eliminate the need for the 430gr CEB MTH bullets but time will tell.

TI shapes…
Michael I think you tumbled onto something that will prove very important with Raptor performance – that being the need for a second TI shape. I’m thinking perhaps ½ the length of the current high BC TI spitzer shape – perhaps shaped more as a semi-spitzer than a rounded nose profile. Definitely a plus for bullet performance!

quote:

I’m thinking perhaps ½ the length of the current high BC TI spitzer shape – perhaps shaped more as a semi-spitzer

Jim

EXACTLY CORRECT! Near my exact thinking as well!

Glad to hear about your very nice Christmas. Very much the same here, had all the kids yesterday and last night. Today very nice and quite. Just dandy!

Hope all has the same!

Michael

Michael,
Congrats on your loading buddy. My girl made spending money by loading 12, 20, 28, and .410 shotsells for me to shoot competitive skeet. Her QC was awesome. Never had a problem with her rounds.

The raptor research on tips for the .458 interests me. With a clip magazine rather than a tubular in my lever rifle, I can think of a number of uses for them here in the states as well as in Africa, expecially in my NonCons.

Max

Now that I have some big bore BBW#13 Tips I will do some research on holding velocity on that first, most important, vital shot. We know, the more velocity we have with the BBW#13 NonCon, the better it likes it. Most BBW#13 NonCons have a low end velocity shear from 1500-1750 fps, depending on the weight of the rear end pushing the blades outward. For example I tested the .458 450 gr BBW#13 NonCon down to a 1500 +change fps shear, lot's of ass pushing those blades. The .458 295 gr BBW#13 NonCon down to around 1750 fps or so shear, not as much ass pushing those blades. This will hold true through the range of calibers.

So, the longer we hold that velocity up above minimum shear two things, they can be used at longer range, of course, and even at shorter ranges, less than 50, we get more bang for the buck in the extra velocity retained.

Don't get me wrong, without the tip, BBW#13s are hammers! I never used a tip in Zimbabwe or South Africa in June and they worked better than anything I had ever seen. But why not use that option on the first round with the tip? There is no downside, and all upside. Of course sometimes there won't be time for that, nor even be a concern. But its an option if there is time.



Yes, I am very proud of my little Lab Gal! Honestly, she does a great job, and very keen on it. I always had to tell the boys that if something did not feel right, to back off, they never did that and went ahead like bulls in a china shop and broke things!!!! The other day when Mercedes was loading, I never told her this, however she felt something was not right, backed off, and sure enough the bullet was not going into the case correctly, causing an issue. Instead of being a bull, she backed it out, showed me, and I thought that was incredible myself!

I had her charging cases and loading 9.3 B&M to do some case fire forming, and to have some things on hand for all the company we are going to have over the coming weeks! The next few days we will be doing some 458 B&M, 458 B&M Super Shorts, 475 Super Shorts and other assorted items as well.

Here are some photos of my lab assistant busy at her duties!

Charging a 9.3 B&M



Here, waiting on the ChargeMaster, only had one running for these particular loads, she did not mind the short wait!



And once she had everything charged up, I felt that she should have the opportunity to "Finish The Job", and she did so with ease!














Proud Dad? Yes, I think so!

Michael

Lucky Dad, I'm envious.

I would just have to build her a feather wieght 25 WSSM.

Cheers, John

Thats how I got started. My Dad's partner would let me load his shotgun shells when I was about Mercedes age. I loaded a many of thousand and got to shoot a bunch of them too.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
... Most BBW#13 NonCons have a low end velocity shear from 1500-1750 fps, depending on the weight of the rear end pushing the blades outward. For example I tested the .458 450 gr BBW#13 NonCon down to a 1500 +change fps shear, lot's of ass pushing those blades. The .458 295 gr BBW#13 NonCon down to around 1750 fps or so shear, not as much ass pushing those blades. This will hold true through the range of calibers.

Michael

The experiments at MIB are scientific proof of what Duncan McPherson stated in his book: BULLET PENETRATION

Butt, he said "sectional density drives expansion," not "ass pushing" drives expansion.
Yep. The combination of ass mass and velocity is what makes a bullet expand.

The reincarnation of Doc M as a girl:

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Changing the subject I have question for you .510 shooters. I'm thinking of maybe getting Dan to make a run of .510 solids and non cons. I want to make a 535 solid and a 500 non con. These would be perfect for the Jeffery shooters and those 500 double guys that want a lighter bullet. I shot my Sabatti 500 today with 535 gr Woodleigh softs and it was going in a ragged hole.
If any of you are interested let me know. I don't need 250 of each right now. If there is enough interest I'll get a run done.

Sam

I would be interested in a few of the non con's.

Michael,
Yep, have no doubt the noncons will work great. Just have several ideas where the additional BC would be helpful in Colorado.

On the way home from the DSC show, will be going after Texas piggies north of there. I'm loading noncons of different weights and velocities for a performance review. With that, how do I get them to stand in the same position so each shot is valid with the last one? I want to be able to correlate with your media shots.

quote:

With that, how do I get them to stand in the same position so each shot is valid with the last one? Roll Eyes I want to be able to correlate with your media shots. Wink

Max

Once you get a rope around the neck, just wait for them to spin around for the right shot each time!

Be sure and don't get the rope burns in the photos!



M

I modified a few .510 CEB#13 solids to make Raptors out of them. Weight is about 510 grains. Michael and I will test them on Friday.

Sam

Those look good Sam.

Being that length is sometimes an issue maybe there can be two types of talon tips. A high BC long tip and an ogive shorter tip for moderate BC gains and the added tip sheer function. I think some of the stability issue is the center of gravity with long light tips. Decreasing tip length by a third could make a big difference and have more options.

Don't need tips in a double, long range is 50 yards. I'm getting more like Michael everyday! HEH HEH