quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I am sure you will find that quite entertaining.

Maybe we should come up with some fresh meat to feed the pack? We could start a thread featuring examples of reprehensible youtube video that hunters shouldn't post. I am sure that would be entertaining as well . . . at least for some.

Fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I am sure you will find that quite entertaining.

Maybe we should come up with some fresh meat to feed the pack? We could start a thread featuring examples of reprehensible hunter-to-hunter conduct. I am sure that would be entertaining as well . . . at least for some.

You seem to be the only one that brought that up Mike. Tell me, how is your bringing that up without names any different than Cal asking a legit question about a contract without naming any names?

Is the difference that you are the one making not so subtle nameless accusations?

Just trying to come up with suggestions for new and innovative ways to keep folks entertained and well fed.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I am sure you will find that quite entertaining.

Maybe we should come up with some fresh meat to feed the pack? We could start a thread featuring examples of reprehensible hunter-to-hunter conduct. I am sure that would be entertaining as well . . . at least for some.

Go for it - tough to get censored on AR.

Mike

I wonder what Mark Sullivan's hunt contract says?

Article 7.2 "By signing this contract, you hereby testify that you are a terrible shot, "that you can't hit a barn door with you inside the barn. You MUST wound whatever you shoot, and I guarantee that I will KILL it for you ON camera, with my 600 Nitro Express! And just to remind you, I am using a .600 Nitro Express, because they do NOT make a bigger gun. I would not recommend you trying shooting a .600 Nitro Express. It is NOT made for wimpy hunter who are incapable of killing their own animals..."

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Just trying to come up with suggestions for new and innovative ways to keep folks entertained and well fed.

At least the bored retired ones eh?

You need to up your game Jim.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You need to up your game Jim.

No I don't Mike. If I did I would likely appear as you do on this thread and that is not something I strive for.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I wonder what Mark Sullivan's hunt contract says?

Article 7.2 "By signing this contract, you hereby testify that you are a terrible shot, "that you can't hit a barn door with you inside the barn. You MUST wound whatever you shoot, and I guarantee that I will KILL it for you ON camera, with my 600 Nitro Express! And just to remind you, I am using a .600 Nitro Express, because they do NOT make a bigger gun. I would not recommend you trying shooting a .600 Nitro Express. It is NOT made for wimpy hunter who are incapable of killing their own animals..."

I am amazed that on any thread of any topic, Saeed must bring up Mark. There is a deep issue(s) going on within you, my Muslim friend, and you need to work it out or it will haunt you to your grave. But to answer your question on contracts, if I can swing it financially, I will hunt with Mark in 2017 and give a complete post here. Yes, Saeed, I will diligently search for the stash of .22s Mark uses to shoot bulls in the testes to keep you happy.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I wonder what Mark Sullivan's hunt contract says?

Article 7.2 "By signing this contract, you hereby testify that you are a terrible shot, "that you can't hit a barn door with you inside the barn. You MUST wound whatever you shoot, and I guarantee that I will KILL it for you ON camera, with my 600 Nitro Express! And just to remind you, I am using a .600 Nitro Express, because they do NOT make a bigger gun. I would not recommend you trying shooting a .600 Nitro Express. It is NOT made for wimpy hunter who are incapable of killing their own animals..."

I am amazed that on any thread of any topic, Saeed must bring up Mark. There is a deep issue(s) going on within you, my Muslim friend, and you need to work it out or it will haunt you to your grave. But to answer your question on contracts, if I can swing it financially, I will hunt with Mark in 2017 and give a complete post here. Yes, Saeed, I will diligently search for the stash of .22s Mark uses to shoot bulls in the testes to keep you happy.
Cheers,
Cal

I was just wondering what a man who shoots all his clients buffalo says in his contract.

I do know he has said it himself that all his clients are terrible shots

I have followed this thread with interest re the signing of contracts one does not fully understand
Not many forums where you can get advice and the high level of discussion to keep you on the right side of a contract. Like Jim I too have learned something.
It's a pity that MS cannot be mentioned without a stramash ensuing, after all the times he has been raked over .
Be interesting if the thread is resurrected to include Mark's contract,if Cal ever gets to go on Safari with him.
It must be about the only part of his life, as a PH according to AR, I don't know about.jc

You can rest assured that if this contract had come from Mark Sullivan and not from Mark Young, this thread would have never been started or started in this fashion.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You can rest assured that if this contract had come from Mark Sullivan and not from Mark Young, this thread would have never been started or started in this fashion.

Add to that the fact that Mark Young does not represents any PH who shoots his clients buffalo, and claims that all his clients are terrible shots to boot

I thought it would really be very interesting to know what is mentioned regarding a client paying his money and ending by having Mark Sullivan shooting his animals, and glorifying himself in the process, and requiring the client to pay for them.

After all, he is - thankfully - very unique in the hunting field.

I've never seen one of Sullivan's contracts, nor have I ever met him, but I'll bet $1000 his contract, if he has one, is not more one sided in his favor than the one in this thread.

I don't have a dog in the Sullivan fight, but is there anyone in here who has actually hunted with him who thinks he is such a disgrace to the sport?

I'm pretty tired of hearing "Well, he lets the game suffer so he can provoke a charge." Well, if you're so damned concerned about the game suffering, then don't shoot it in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You can rest assured that if this contract had come from Mark Sullivan and not from Mark Young, this thread would have never been started or started in this fashion.

Sure it would. Only difference would be that a thread about a Mark Sullivan contract would have been at least 30 pages by now because he's such a well known, polarizing figure.

FWIW I've shared a table with Mark Sullivan and found him to be a perfect gentleman and somebody I would enjoy hunting with but that's just based on my personal experience talking with the man and not from what I've gathered watching his dvd's

You know a thread is in the shitter when you have an attorney on a stump preaching morals and ethics. The hypocrisy is almost too much to handle.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

You know a thread is in the shitter when you have an attorney on a stump preaching morals and ethics. The hypocrisy is almost too much to handle.

Ain't that the truth. About like the Kennedy's giving a seminar on sobriety.....

I know Mark. I have always found him engaging and friendly. I know a number of people that have hunted with Mark and no one that has hunted with him has a single negative thing to say about him. I have talked to him on more than one occasion about doing a hunt but for various reasons, none pertaining to Mark, that has not happened. I would have no qualms about hunting with Mark and would love to do so . . . regardless of whether his contract, which I have never seen, included language such as that posted here.

My point, so easily lost on some apparently, is simply that there is a double standard at play here. I am highly confident, my opinion and my opinion only, that if the last name on the contract had been Sullivan and not Young, the contract language would have never been posted here. Now, back to kicking Mark Young around and the ad hominem attacks . . .

quote:

I would have no qualms about hunting with Mark and would love to do so . . . regardless of whether his contract, which I have never seen, included language such as that posted here.

But, more to the point, would you sign the contract as written?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
...My point, so easily lost on some apparently, is simply that there is a double standard at play here. I am highly confident, my opinion and my opinion only, that if the last name on the contract had been Sullivan and not Young, the contract language would have never been posted here. Now, back to kicking Mark Young around and the ad hominem attacks . . .

And my point, so easily lost on at least one person here, it that the contract itself isn't the thing I have an issue with. It's the attitude that one can utilize this forum, free of charge, to solicit business from the members but when a member has a question the agent tells him he can pound sand if he asks questions related to something that the agent offered him on the very forum the agent uses to make money. It's the "I'll take my ball and go home" attitude that's so telling to me and others

There were better ways to handle it IMO but it is what it is. This isn't an "attack" on Mark it's merely an honest assessment of what I see. I've defended Mark in the past and I've called him out in the past, he's done some stuff I didn't agree with and he's also offered hunts that I felt were top rate which is really no different than any other booking agent I know. My opinion of Mark hasn't changed and I don't like or dislike the guy, I just disagree with him sometimes

The only thing that keeps me coming back to this thread at this point is you. It would have been forgotten already is you weren't for you

. . . I would do what should have done here . . . suggest to Mark that the language be modified or limited.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

My point, so easily lost on some apparently, is simply that there is a double standard at play here. I am highly confident, my opinion and my opinion only, that if the last name on the contract had been Sullivan and not Young, the contract language would have never been posted here. Now, back to kicking Mark Young around and the ad hominem attacks . . .

I can't believe how far off the mark you are on this entire issue.

The person who has done the greatest disservice to the agent is you and you alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I've never seen one of Sullivan's contracts, nor have I ever met him, but I'll bet $1000 his contract, if he has one, is not more one sided in his favor than the one in this thread.

I don't have a dog in the Sullivan fight, but is there anyone in here who has actually hunted with him who thinks he is such a disgrace to the sport?

I'm pretty tired of hearing "Well, he lets the game suffer so he can provoke a charge." Well, if you're so damned concerned about the game suffering, then don't shoot it in the first place.

In the years I've known Mark there is a fact that can't be disputed. To date 100% of the negative comments come from those who have never hunted or met the man. And, folks that have hunted with him are always positive in telling of their experience.

Mike Jines' comment on Mark Sullivan is right on.

And, Mike, if I had received such a contract from anyone I would have done the same here if was the same contract I received from MY: I would have posted my comments and questions in the anonymous fashion I did. In court, facts not speculation, are what is required. If I received a one sided contract from anyone, I also would not hunt with them.

Cheers, all.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

I would have no qualms about hunting with Mark and would love to do so . . . regardless of whether his contract, which I have never seen, included language such as that posted here.

But, more to the point, would you sign the contract as written?

TGT has a contract that is worse than Mark Young's.

I signed it, and hunted with them a number of times.

But, I would not have even considered signing that contract if I was not hunting with Alan Vincent. A man I have known for many years, and been on many salaries with.

Bottom line is, one has a choice.

Sign the contract or you cannot hunt with whoever is behind that contract.

I am so glad I hunt with people I know well enough that no contract is ever considered.

quote:

TGT has a contract that is worse than Mark Young's.

I'd certainly like to see a contract that is worse. In this case the hunter signs away all his rights of legal recourse AND if the hunt is cancelled for any number of reasons for Force Majeure, then not only does the hunter not get any of his money back, but he owes MY for the rest of the cost of the hunt, if any remains unpaid, and will be billed for such, even tho he cannot, thru no fault of his own, go on the hunt.

Now, please show me, or tell me how TNT's contract can be any worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I am so glad I hunt with people I know well enough that no contract is ever considered.

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

I would have no qualms about hunting with Mark and would love to do so . . . regardless of whether his contract, which I have never seen, included language such as that posted here.

But, more to the point, would you sign the contract as written?

TGT has a contract that is worse than Mark Young's.

I signed it, and hunted with them a number of times.

But, I would not have even considered signing that contract if I was not hunting with Alan Vincent. A man I have known for many years, and been on many salaries with.

Bottom line is, one has a choice.

Sign the contract or you cannot hunt with whoever is behind that contract.

I am so glad I hunt with people I know well enough that no contract is ever considered.

Saeed,

If TGT told you that you could not seek the counsel of anyone on your own forum would you still enter into the contract with them?

Cheers
Jim

Good question, Jim.
This seems to be more of a point of contention than the contract wording itself.
Cal

I wonder:

1. How many POS hunters have gone through this booking agent to inspire the agent to have this language? I'm guessing a lot. Why else pay a lawyer for this? If every hunter is a straight up, as good as his word guy, you do not need this contract. If a big number of your hunters are sue on sight POS types, well then at least this contract gives you something to talk about when the gin up a case against you.

2. I think this contract is more of an indictment of us hunters than a particular indictment of this one agent. (70-80% hunters and 30-20% agent) FYI, I've never used his services. I have in fact been in camps and talked with many a hunter that would definitely drive someone to create a contract like this. We hunters have never been great at culling our herd.

If an agent sent me this contract, I would not run and put it on AR unless something significantly more happen. I would definitely want to hear the stories.

Sir, I think you are right.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I wonder:

1. How many POS hunters have gone through this booking agent to inspire the agent to have this language? I'm guessing a lot. Why else pay a lawyer for this? If every hunter is a straight up, as good as his word guy, you do not need this contract. If a big number of your hunters are sue on sight POS types, well then at least this contract gives you something to talk about when the gin up a case against you.

2. I think this contract is more of an indictment of us hunters than a particular indictment of this one agent. (70-80% hunters and 30-20% agent) FYI, I've never used his services. I have in fact been in camps and talked with many a hunter that would definitely drive someone to create a contract like this. We hunters have never been great at culling our herd.

If an agent sent me this contract, I would not run and put it on AR unless something significantly more happen. I would definitely want to hear the stories.

Absolutely spot on. Well said. In fact, my sense is that there are hunters on this thread that would definitely drive someone to create a contract like this.

So it takes two to tango......sue happy, entitled hunters who have hunts that don't exactly go their way 100% of the time, and parasitic, bottom feeding plaintiff atty's who will take the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

I would have no qualms about hunting with Mark and would love to do so . . . regardless of whether his contract, which I have never seen, included language such as that posted here.

But, more to the point, would you sign the contract as written?

TGT has a contract that is worse than Mark Young's.

I signed it, and hunted with them a number of times.

But, I would not have even considered signing that contract if I was not hunting with Alan Vincent. A man I have known for many years, and been on many salaries with.

Bottom line is, one has a choice.

Sign the contract or you cannot hunt with whoever is behind that contract.

I am so glad I hunt with people I know well enough that no contract is ever considered.

Saeed,

If TGT told you that you could not seek the counsel of anyone on your own forum would you still enter into the contract with them?

Cheers
Jim

Jim,

I would not have hunted with them if my hunt was not with Alan.

An interesting parallel here, both Saeed and Mike Jines don't seem to answer the questions directly. I know Mike is an attorney, but Saeed…
cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
An interesting parallel here, both Saeed and Mike Jines don't seem to answer the questions directly. I know Mike is an attorney, but Saeed…
cal

What is your question?

If you mean would I accept an agreement as you got from Mark Young or the one I got from TGT?

I would not.

I will go somewhere else.

I only hunted with TGT because I was hunting with someone I have absolutely no doubt about.

Saeed, your above response is moot.

Would you hunt anywhere in Africa if it did not involve Roy or Alan Vincent ?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I wonder:

1. How many POS hunters have gone through this booking agent to inspire the agent to have this language? I'm guessing a lot. Why else pay a lawyer for this? If every hunter is a straight up, as good as his word guy, you do not need this contract. If a big number of your hunters are sue on sight POS types, well then at least this contract gives you something to talk about when the gin up a case against you.

2. I think this contract is more of an indictment of us hunters than a particular indictment of this one agent. (70-80% hunters and 30-20% agent) FYI, I've never used his services. I have in fact been in camps and talked with many a hunter that would definitely drive someone to create a contract like this. We hunters have never been great at culling our herd.

If an agent sent me this contract, I would not run and put it on AR unless something significantly more happen. I would definitely want to hear the stories.

Absolutely spot on. Well said. In fact, my sense is that there are hunters on this thread that would definitely drive someone to create a contract like this.

I find it interesting Mr. Jines that you condemn Cal for not mentioning a name and for about five pages now you have made references to hunters and bad habits while not naming names. Now you are playing a "you're getting warmer" game by saying they are posting on this thread.

Man up and spit it out. You're being a jackass.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

You're being a jackass.

No shortage of that around here now is there

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

You're being a jackass.

No shortage of that around here now is there

Definitely not. BTW, heading for 11 pages Ted.

About 7 pages of the 10 are web links, signature lines and quotes

My post dont always but normally take up less real estate than some....

What a mess

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
Saeed, your above response is moot.

Would you hunt anywhere in Africa if it did not involve Roy or Alan Vincent ?

I have hunted with two other PHs, more than once with each.

Peter Harris in South Africa, and Pierre van Tonder in Tanzania.

I did not have to sign any contract with either of these gentlemen.