I will give you a first hand example of why it matters if someone fails to disclose their financial interest in a product, service, hunt, etc.

A number of years ago, after watching a show on the Outdoor Channel hosted by a fellow named Keith Warren, I booked a whitetail deer hunt in Seguin, Texas. On the show, Keith talked about what a wonderful ranch this was, how he had never seen so many deer, that the quality of the deer was outstanding, the ranch had a aggressive management program, etc. I ended up booking a hunt there and was less than pleased with my experience. Subsequently, I learned that Keith not just hunted on the ranch, he OWNED the ranch. That was something that NEVER was mentioned on the show, on the website for the ranch, anywhere. He used the show as an infomercial for his ranch without ever disclosing his financial interest in the ranch. Had he disclosed his interest, obviously I would have been much more skeptical of claims on the show. In retrospect, I should have done more due diligence anyway and I learned a valuable lesson from that experience. I have no problem with shows having sponsors, featuring the sponsored products, and the like; without such sponsorships the shows would never be possible. What I do have a problem with is the deception that is frequently practiced of not being completely candid about having a financial stake in products, services, hunts, etc. that outdoor writers and television hosts tout in their writings and on their shows.

CB has had a tough road on this site. His daughter was horribly scrutinized regarding the accident while Leopard hunting. God forbid a situation such as that ever befalls any of us.
I suppose being a celebrity of sorts has its pitfalls.
It seems our culture these days is so focused on the misery of others.
CB may be thinking of changing his name to Kardasian. He is getting about as much play on this site.
Oh well....

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I will give you a first hand example of why it matters if someone fails to disclose their financial interest in a product, service, hunt, etc.

A number of years ago, after watching a show on the Outdoor Channel hosted by a fellow named Keith Warren, I booked a whitetail deer hunt in Seguin, Texas. On the show, Keith talked about what a wonderful ranch this was, how he had never seen so many deer, that the quality of the deer was outstanding, the ranch had a aggressive management program, etc. I ended up booking a hunt there and was less than pleased with my experience. Subsequently, I learned that Keith not just hunted on the ranch, he OWNED the ranch. That was something that NEVER was mentioned on the show, on the website for the ranch, anywhere. He used the show as an infomercial for his ranch without ever disclosing his financial interest in the ranch. Had he disclosed his interest, obviously I would have been much more skeptical of claims on the show. In retrospect, I should have done more due diligence anyway and I learned a valuable lesson from that experience. I have no problem with shows having sponsors, featuring the sponsored products, and the like; without such sponsorships the shows would never be possible. What I do have a problem with is the deception that is frequently practiced of not being completely candid about having a financial stake in products, services, hunts, etc. that outdoor writers and television hosts tout in their writings and on their shows.

'Don't often hear "whitetail deer" and "Seguin" in the same sentence. Good farm land. Good "Lute-r-an" school (actually pretty liberal now). Not so much big deer.

AAZW,

I understand very well that you have issues with hunting industry guys making money from what most of us consider to be our fun or sport activities. It's a common theme in your posts. I understand it makes a difference to you. I don't know why, because as you say, you don't seem to be hurting financially and can do whatever hunts you desire. It bothers you, it doesn't me. Anytime an industry professional is publicly promoting or writing about a product or outfitter, I assume there is compensation going on. The only time I would think otherwise is if the guy specifically states that NO COMPENSATION is being paid. A bit like Shockey stating that he doesn't charge SCI for the advertising spots he does for them on his show. Now, if we found out later that SCI does pay Mr. Shockey for those spots, then I'd say we were lied to and I'd have an issue with that. But I start from the assumption that payment, in some form is being made and proceed accordingly.

As far as what a hunt costs and how that cost is derived as a result of free hunts given in return for publicity, again, I don't see how that affects me. I doubt that it makes much difference. For example, if a certain outfitter can get $25,000 for a certain hunt, I doubt he will drop that price to $20,000 if a celebrity happened to hunt with him earlier and paid full price. In other words, if he can get $25,000 for the hunt, he's going to charge $25,000, regardless of whether or not he gave a discount to a celebrity hunter earlier in the season.

And Mike,

If you guys are booking hunts or buying products solely because you saw the latest hunting hero shooting that rifle, scope, ammo, or hunting with a certain outfitter, then find yourself in a less than optimum position, who is really to blame there? Again, anytime I see an industry professional using a product or hunting with a certain ranch or outfitter, I realize some form of compensation is in play. One way or another. I use those shows or articles mostly for entertainment but realize it's a business. Money has to be made to provide that entertainment. From that standpoint, the shows or articles alert me to a potential product or outfitter for which I begin doing my own research on, to convince myself that it is all that it is cracked up to be.

I like Don Henley's music. I haven't contributed to the Walden Woods Project! I like George Clooney as an actor but I didn't vote for Obama. I'm friends with Tim Herald but I don't shoot T/C rifles or Nosler bullets. I'm friends with Dave Fulson but I don't shoot Hornady DGX or DGS bullets. I do like the Trijicon line of optics however, which I learned about on TAA. I did my own research on those products and decided which ones I though were for me and which ones were not.

BTW, I've also been on a hunt that didn't turn out to be all it was cracked up to be. It would be easy for me to blame others, but the bottom line is I didn't do my homework and suffered the consequences thereof.

I am in full agreement however that Craig Boddington, who has done as many hunts as he has, doesn't need my $20 contribution toward building an "internet storefront" for him to sell his own wares. I might buy a book or two from him; in fact I have in the past. He can use whatever profit is generated from those sales of items that have a real value to fund the building of his "internet storefront". A promise to "put my picture on his wall" or send me a "picture of Craig in a classic grip and smile pose standing over one of his trophies" doesn't seem to be fair value in exchange for him getting a place to sell his stuff. And I damn sure don't need a soiled T-Shirt!! That's ... really ... strange! If not down right nasty!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
BTW, I've also been on a hunt that didn't turn out to be all it was cracked up to be. It would be easy for me to blame others, but the bottom line is I didn't do my homework and suffered the consequences thereof.

Not sure I was suggesting otherwise, perhaps I was too pithy.

Todd:

I have no problem with anyone making money in the hunting industry, I really don't. I have said TV is actually much more transparent than writing, because the commercials and the sponsor announcements are obvious. I have never said anything different. There is disclosure there. That same disclosure is lacking in written publications. However, some are getting better. I pointed out in a recent thread that the latest issue of American Hunter acknowledged who paid for what, and I really appreciated that.

I also recently posted that I thought CB's story in the 40th HUNTING anniversary issue was excellent; I stand by that. I enjoyed the story immensely (it was about a hunt with Bob Petersen with no mention of products). I also enjoy CBs books, because they don't generally talk about products. I have said that before here as well.

Twenty years ago writers didn't endorse products the way they do today; you wrote a story and got paid for it. Today, you have no idea if the Surefire flashlight is mentioned because the author believes it to be good or because he is paid to say that (or received a free hunt for it).

Some of my friends are guys who make their living in this industry, including writers, booking agents, and manufacturers. More power to them.

One guy I have a huge amount of respect for is John Wootters, who died last January. He told me he was really saddened by the way the industry has changed. I imagine he is rolling over in his grave now.

I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

well... there ya go. A real sincere dadgum apology.

ALL IS WELL

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

Ah, there you go, Conrad. Contrition is good for the soul. The first step to becoming a codger is accepting responsibility. Not sure what it'll take to make you a fellow "douchenozzle", however, but trust me you'll get there.

Now all that's left for you is waiting to hear what Craig has to say about your many and varied efforts on his behalf. Whatever that might be, you've more or less forced him to respond in some way to this PR nightmare. If you're really his friend, you might suggest that.

No doubt an ignominious start, but perhaps you'll fit in here after all. With your flair for insults you'll be a natural on future posts involving Mark Sullivan.

WOW! I mean WOW!!!!! I just read this whole thread and my mind is melting.........

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
Greetings.

Firstly, thanks to the folks who withheld judgement and showed respect to Craig Boddington. He's a great guy, friend, father, hunter and veteran. I was trying to do something nice for him by creating the indiegogo.com campaign and the subsequent website.

This is Conrad Evarts. A cameraman who you can Google and find out much of my professional background. Novel idea right? Instead of just gazing wet eyed into this clunky, outdated website populated by graybearded paranoids who don't realize the internet evolved. No, seriously this website sucks The fact that you nuts are on here gives me a great deal of insight into your mindset.

School is now in session. Let's start by taking our tinfoil hats off and putting our thinking caps on. Hopefully when we're done the paranoids here can get their nurse to administer their meds, put them to bed and unplug their computers and the rest of the haters can return to their bunkers to polish their 30,000 rounds of ammo.

I am real. I was trying to do something nice for someone I respect. Craig Boddington was not terribly savvy on my effort because he spends all his time in the boonies but trusted me to try and make this work.

More importantly, outside of your antiquated worlds crowd funding sites like www.indiegogo.com and www.kickstarter.com are very acceptable ways to raise money for business endeavors. There are many for profit businesses using them. These include everything from musicians and movie studios to bakeries and websites.

Set down your tattered Jack O'Connor bible, get in a friggin' time machine and blast yourself to 2013. All sorts of businesses are using crowd funding. It's not strange at all.

So, in conclusion:
-I am real. Google me.
-This was not a scam and is totally normal these days.
-Craig Boddington was not entirely savvy because he is of your generation. This was not his fault and besides that if it wasn't for you crusty old haters this would be totally cool and worked and created something great for a new generation of hunters.
-Craig Boddington did not take a vow of poverty to be who he is. If someone like me can help him raise money to create a site that would only be judged by a total commie.

If you don't like the idea of me raising funds to put together a totally positive and interesting website as a favor to a friend you don't have to contribute to it.

Craig asked me to disable the campaign. I did so out of respect for him not to placate you blood sucking, paranoid savages. You haters are pathetic.

And "Lonestar 2075"...Tim, I know who you are. You know who I am. I've been to your crappy little shop in Texas to repair an episode your operation screwed the pooch on years ago. You're a coward and an embarrassment. Grow a pair and put your name up.

Finally, I've stepped in the ring with you ladies now. Go warm up a stack of Hot Pockets and get your mommy to ice down your 12 pack of Mountain Dew because I don't tangle on the internet often but when I do, it isn't pretty.


Thanks again to everyone who showed respect to Craig. I meant what I said, I spent a great deal of time with him in the field. I respect him and he's a good person.

Sincerely,

Conrad Evarts (proud friend of Craig Boddington)

Wow!!! All I can say is that I am proud to not be of that generation and if I am a hater...what is he Satan hisself!

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good
friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

Good restart Conrad, thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

I suspect this is more along the lines CB would write.

Well done, Conrad. Most of us with more than 100 posts have written plenty of things we'd like to take back, if we could.

Must have been a great taco!!!

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

Ah, there you go, Conrad. Contrition is good for the soul. The first step to becoming a codger is accepting responsibility. Not sure what it'll take to make you a fellow "douchenozzle", however, but trust me you'll get there.

Now all that's left for you is waiting to hear what Craig has to say about your many and varied efforts on his behalf. Whatever that might be, you've more or less forced him to respond in some way to this PR nightmare. If you're really his friend, you might suggest that.

No doubt an ignominious start, but perhaps you'll fit in here after all. With your flair for insults you'll be a natural on future posts involving Mark Sullivan.

Oh, it sure sounds like CB is all too aware of Conrad's rant by now.

Wow! I cannot believe this.

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
Must have been a great taco!!!

I will believe Conradbag sincerity when Craig clears him of any wrong doing. In the mean time I will just continue to be nozzle head or whatever.

I'm pretty easy going but this whole thread has me scratching my head and wondering. I guess I don't understand why anyone would give a rats behind if CB or anyone on his behalf (with or without consent) sold products to benefit a website for Craig. He could sell dirty underwear and i could give a crap less (pun intended). It has no bearing on my life, family or finances. I guess I don't get it.

And as for the disclosure stuff; sure there are always benefits from working in any industry. There are perks in every industry from free golf to free ski weekends in Europe. Some agents get lots of very discounted or free hunts (lion and DG included...), writers and TV personalities get free swag and trips, and industry reps (bullets, arrows, etc) get all sorts of free stuff. I do agree that disclosure is necessary but I am smart enough (as I would sure as hell hope most everyone on here is) to realize that it is just the nature of business. I don't hold it against anyone nor would I make a financial decision based upon it. That is similar to a kid buying Michael Jordan Nike's because it will help you dunk. Give me a break.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
Must have been a great taco!!!

I think he was served a big shit taco courtesy of Craig Boddington.

Come on, guys. The man apologized.

Don't be a lot of crusty douchenozzles.

He gave a real apology. Not a Bill Cinton apology, as in "Mistakes were made."

I'm buying it.

Conrad, go and sin no more.

And I thought he was going bear hunting!

Apologies or no apologies.

One thing is for certain.

The true character and colour of this individual have come right through.

Glowing with pride!

I never for a million years would have imagined a gentleman like Craig would have someone remotely resembling our Conrad as a friend.


This is how that old saying came about.

With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Mike,
For a lawyer in the NE, you are a forgiving soul.
I am still hoping CB comes here and lays out what the truth is. You never know what the truth will be.

I really laughed at this. Bravo

quote:

Finally, I've stepped in the ring with you ladies now. Go warm up a stack of Hot Pockets and get your mommy to ice down your 12 pack of Mountain Dew because I don't tangle on the internet often but when I do, it isn't pretty.

I have all my life heard the term 'feeding frenzy' and this thread demonstrates it perfectly. Just out of college I worked for Armstrong Rubber. As a supervisor I was allowed 1 set of tires per year. Any size to do with as I pleased. If were at a certain level they would even mount them and balance and rotate for the chance to check specs,etc. I then worked for PPG industries in the Glass Division,again in a supervisory capacity. We were allowed so many square feet of the glass of our choice and when I transferred to the division that made windshields we were allowed a windshield, and recieved 5 white shirts per year along with a pair of safety shoes of our choice. All supervisors were required to wear a white shirt and tie. From there I went to a subdivision developer and received my home at a vastly reduced price. I finished my work career with a concrete/asphalt company where I was allowed so much concrete or asphalt per year. Did I ever advertise these facts,no but neither did involuntarily disclose them. Did I ever reccomend the products produced or sold by them you bet your bottom dollar I did. I would venture few if any of these forum members are any different. This thread is an example why I take such a jaundiced view of this forum. The value gained is not worth the chaff most of the time.

Wow, this is some funny stuff! When I read the definition of codger "douchenozzle" I laughed so hard I cried! Haven't done that in quite awhile. Here all this time I've just been trying to figure out how to get my rifle to shoot straight.

Why does anyone even care about this? If you like the guy take some of his advice if not don't. I know and like him. Does that mean I am going to buy stuff just because he endorses it or "donate" to his website? Hell no! Not anymore than I would anyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

quote:

Originally posted by ConradEvarts:
I deleted my original post.

I did not handle my response well and my temper made the situation worse.

I felt badly that Craig was being attacked for something I did (The indiegogo.com campaign) It was sincerely just an effort to be a good friend. I reacted badly in defense of Craig's reputation.

I genuinely was just trying to do something nice for Craig. There was nothing else to it.

I apologize for making this situation worse.

Conrad Evarts

Ah, there you go, Conrad. Contrition is good for the soul. The first step to becoming a codger is accepting responsibility. Not sure what it'll take to make you a fellow "douchenozzle", however, but trust me you'll get there.

Now all that's left for you is waiting to hear what Craig has to say about your many and varied efforts on his behalf. Whatever that might be, you've more or less forced him to respond in some way to this PR nightmare. If you're really his friend, you might suggest that.

No doubt an ignominious start, but perhaps you'll fit in here after all. With your flair for insults you'll be a natural on future posts involving Mark Sullivan.

Oh, it sure sounds like CB is all too aware of Conrad's rant by now.

It would have been interesting to have sat in on that conversation.......

Brett

Conrad:

Meth and/or speed are a bad thing. They make you seem to accomplish a lot without accomplishing anything, but it's still not a good idea. Glad you seem to have come down again.

I'd check with Craig before I did anything else on his behalf. I doubt seriously if he woudl approve of what you have done thus far.

However, it does not surprise me that Craig regarded Conrad as a friend. Have any of you ever known Craig to meet a stranger, not treat you as a long lost friend, etc.? Maybe he should be a bit more selective; I guess that's up to him.

I picked a perfect time to be in bed with the flu. This thread has been awesome.  I'd burst out laughing and then hold my head in excruciating pain. 
Not one time did my respect for Craig Boddington waiver. 

I would like to see some more of the  "Yo Yo, Hater, Bitch stuff from Wojo and Wendell

I don't know about the rest of you, but I was a lot happier two days ago than I am now.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was a lot happier two days ago than I am now.

I can see why after some of the post you made on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Dog Man:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was a lot happier two days ago than I am now.

I can see why after some of the post you made on this thread.

Don't confuse sadness with regret. The issue of Rigby is pretty serious IMO. Maybe not to you, but it is to me. Anyone who thinks otherwise is willing to sweep journalistic ethics under the rug.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I have all my life heard the term 'feeding frenzy' and this thread demonstrates it perfectly. Just out of college I worked for Armstrong Rubber. As a supervisor I was allowed 1 set of tires per year. Any size to do with as I pleased. If were at a certain level they would even mount them and balance and rotate for the chance to check specs,etc. I then worked for PPG industries in the Glass Division,again in a supervisory capacity. We were allowed so many square feet of the glass of our choice and when I transferred to the division that made windshields we were allowed a windshield, and recieved 5 white shirts per year along with a pair of safety shoes of our choice. All supervisors were required to wear a white shirt and tie. From there I went to a subdivision developer and received my home at a vastly reduced price. I finished my work career with a concrete/asphalt company where I was allowed so much concrete or asphalt per year. Did I ever advertise these facts,no but neither did involuntarily disclose them. Did I ever reccomend the products produced or sold by them you bet your bottom dollar I did. I would venture few if any of these forum members are any different. This thread is an example why I take such a jaundiced view of this forum. The value gained is not worth the chaff most of the time.

I have absolutely no problems with writers or presenters receiving goods and payment for endorsement... in terms of the hunting 'industry', it simply makes a lot of this work. We should be thanking sponsors for their involvement.

But what you have written here has almost zero to do with these endorsements; what you receive as perks of employment has nothing to do with journalists and celebrities gaining by endorsing products. There are whole rafts of Federal legislation on this - look up US Federal Trade Commission - endorsement guidelines.

quote:

Originally posted by Dog Man:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was a lot happier two days ago than I am now.

I can see why after some of the post you made on this thread.

I agree.

I am getting asked why did we delete Conrad's posts.

We did not.

He did that himself, that is why I copied his initial outburst to save it from being deleted.

"...Finally, I've stepped in the ring with you ladies now. Go warm up a stack of Hot Pockets and get your mommy to ice down your 12 pack of Mountain Dew because I don't tangle on the internet often but when I do, it isn't pretty.
.."

Obviously, the ladies he stepped into the ring with are more than he can handle!

Dave, please be careful not to touch him. You will need lots of disinfectant and antibiotics to get rid of the germs you might catch

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I am getting asked why did we delete Conrad's posts.

We did not.

He did that himself, that is why I copied his initial outburst to save it from being deleted.

"...Finally, I've stepped in the ring with you ladies now. Go warm up a stack of Hot Pockets and get your mommy to ice down your 12 pack of Mountain Dew because I don't tangle on the internet often but when I do, it isn't pretty.
.."

Obviously, the ladies he stepped into the ring with are more than he can handle!

Dave, please be careful not to touch him. You will need lots of disinfectant and antibiotics to get rid of the germs you might catch

Classic!

quote:

Originally posted by Dog Man:

I would like to see some more of the  "Yo Yo, Hater, Bitch stuff from Wojo and Wendell

Bitch ate my Moose stew and still calls me a hater. The stew had nothing to do with his balls swelling either.

I really feel sorry for Mr. Boddington. He is so well known that it draws out all sorts of admirers - ALL sorts. He seems to be a stand-up fellow and I think he has a big heart. I don't think he was taken advantage of but I do think he is a victim of the worst form of fan-warship. It is "favors" like the promotion site that he could really do better without.

I have been reading Boddington since his articles first appeared in the gun magazines. I always think of him as the guy who wrote about this or that. I consider him an experienced hunter and writer but, to me, he falls short of being a true authority on guns and hunting. To me an authority is someone who does what he does, he becomes expert at it, and writing about it is secondary. Whereas Mr. Boddington does what he does with the express purpose of writing about it. Perhaps, I guess, that makes him an authority on writing. But isn't that what he is supposed to be all about anyway - reporting, comparing, talking up guns, ammo, and hunting? And, because he is very good at it, I enjoy his writings.

Having his pictures, books, and articles shared by hundreds of thousands of consumers brings Mr. Boddington no little popularity. And with popularity comes a readership that grows to feel they know him personally. Some may even go beyond fan to fanatic. Once that line is crossed, people act out of emotion. After this experience, Mr. Boddington will, no doubt, be a little more wary of the calamity that can be brought by a well intentioned fan blinded from clear thought by the stars in his eyes.