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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Mark Sullivan Lion (1 picture)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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He shot the Wizard of OZ lion! That thing is over 70 years old!! Seriously, if someone wants to question whether he is 12 or not matters not the least to me. Stating he is 12 doesn't get me hot and bothered, nor does questioning the fact that he might not be. Who cares? | |||
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Here is the rub. The lion is not 12 or even close. He is probably 6...7 at best...which is fine. But the chance of ever encoutering a 12 yr old male lion in the wild is slim enough and it would not look anything like this lion...esp the teeth. Regarding lion...we need the facts kept honest and straight so that clients have realistic expectations. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Very nice  Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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Beautiful lion! MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Pardon me, but I'll probably withhold telling someone how great they are, or what a great accomplishment it is until I know more details. It's gorgeous for sure. Flame away boys....I've got more azzz than you've got teeth. | |||
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What's happening here, two pages and no ones had a crack at MS   Now I don't want to have a shot at him but having never been on a guided hunt I don't know if this is the done thing, is it normal for the PH to pose with the trophy without the hunter in the photo? Again I don't want to turn this into a MS bash but I just want to know. ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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Damn fine lion!! | |||
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Shawn - The lion is a fabulous trophy for sure! Most certainly not 12 yrs old, not even close, but who cares? He's a great Lion, certainly 6 plus - making him legal in TZ, so congrats to the hunter and to Mark as well. The only reason to point that out is, as Lane says - its important to be as close to accurate as possible when providing aging info to the "public", nothing more. Mark and I have had many conversations over the past few years. I like Mark a lot, and glad to see he's doing well. Fujo on the other hand is obviously in need of seeing a few more fully mature/wild lions, if he thinks for a second that wild lions do not grow big tufts of hair on the backs of their elbows/front legs. Hi Fujo!!  | |||
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I've had several of my PHs pose with the trophy without me in the shot. Even had some of the trackers holding my or the PH's rifle, in a shot or two without me in it. Bothers me not in the least. Why would it be an issue? They put me on the animal in the first place! | |||
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Well said Todd  | |||
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Hell of a lion regardless of the age. | |||
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I have never seen a trophy lion close up but I have compared photos a lot 7 that animals teeth are worn down. The canines are lot smaller than many trophy lion photos on AR - unless the head is so big that the proportion is misleading! Thanks for sharing. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I just got back to this post. Again, I can’t comment on the age as I wasn't there and can only share what I was told. Aaron and Lane, I do appreciate your opinions and input judging by what is shown in the photo. I do not have info to share regarding where this lion was killed or anything additional. I am glad so many are able to enjoy this fabulous lion and are engaging in positive conversation about him. Regards, Shawn Shawn Joyce Diizche Safari Adventures P.O. Box 1445 Lincoln, CA 95648 E-mail: shawn.joyce@diizchesafariadventures.net Cell: (916) 804-3318 Shoot Straight, Live the Dream, and Keep Turning the Pages to Your Next Adventure!™ Website- www.DiizcheSafariAdventures.com Blog- http://diizchesafari.blogspot.com/ Twitter- http://twitter.com/DiizcheSafari YouTube- http://www.youtube.com/user/shawncjoyce Facebook- http://on.fb.me/gYytdn Instagram: diizchesafari_official | |||
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I simply ask a question as I stated, I don't know about lions. He made the claim it was 12yrs old, I just wanted some confirmation. As for further comment not needed here, I'll comment as I please when I please. You sure can get your panties in a wad over mighty small things. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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If there was ever a site with more know-it-all loudmouth jack wagons on the Internet other than here, I don't know where it would be. Terrific lion. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Mike Mitchell, that is a GREAT first post! You have style!  Welcome aboard! | |||
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people come to AR not just to hear accounts of successful hunts, but to also[hopefully] be properly educated on certain species.
I guess some people can look at their wedding photos, noticing that there are way more images of ones trophy wife with the best man rather than the groom, and thinking thats it quite normal... on the other hand, I find it deceiving that when a PH has played a major/critical roll in finding & securing/retrieving an animal, that the paying client then ends up in the glory photo, taking acclaim for the hunt. | |||
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24 Hour Campfire? | |||
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Funny that....... Cheers, Mark. | |||
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If there was ever a site with more up-tight, hyper-sensitive, I get my feelings hurt easier/more than most women, on the internet - other than here, I don't know where it would be? Lane is simply providing factual info, as it pertains to this lion - in hopes that most will look/learn and use that info when field judging their next trophy lion. He made no criticism, nor have I. In fact, we both agree he's a fabulous lion, certainly of legal age in TZ, and a huge congrats to the hunter/PH. I consider Mark a friend, and very much enjoy the conversations we have on a semi-frequent basis. Why providing some factual info, in hopes of continued education to the hunting public - is considered being a "know it all - jackwagon", completely evades me? Thankfully Lane has taken on the role of "whipping boy" in pursuit of what's best for the longevity of the wild lion. Lane is my friend, and he knows where I stand on the issue - thanks Lane. | |||
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Well I predicted at least five pages of sand-in-the-mangina syndrome about this thread and it looks like we're on our way! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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.......... Moved to the Lion thread ....... | |||
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Did he tell you how the lion chose to die? | |||
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In an effort to not spoil the "OP's" original post...to discuss the lions age...I started this thread. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Sigh... D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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My guess is he would have chosen to die of old age on top of a beautiful red haired lioness that was just too much for his heart to handle for the fourth time that day..... but a little hunting seems to created other circumstances. | |||
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Maybe -ExpressYourself- at some point may be able to elaborate on why MS believes the Lion is 12yrs+, ie; what physical factors did he observe in that particular cat, to make that assertion. ...I am asking this purely for educational purposes.
Indeed, that would be the decent mature-minded thing to do. | |||
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Whatever its age, that ain't no baby lion!  I defer to those who know more about them, since I have no idea how to age lions. Yes, it is nice to avoid exaggeration, but that only goes so far, since we see it ALL the time on these sites. OYOH, this magnificent lion seems to have a somewhat scruffy mane, which suggests to me that either age or habitat has had some effect on it. Beyond that, the photo only gives data about the head and some teeth. There might be other indicators that we are not seeing. Compare Patterson's Tsavo maneater lions, big males with essentially no remaining manes, supposedly worn off by thorn bush habitat. I have seen them several times in Chicago's Field Museum. Granted, Patterson had them made into rugs, so when Marshall Field bought them from him and had them mounted, they had to be smaller than in real life (cf. photos in Patterson's book -- original copies, of which I have one, have far better photos than the later reprints.) Even so, those are very big old lions. Frankly, from the limited info, it sounds like the hunt of a lifetime, never to be forgotten. 45 minutes in a blind waiting for dawn to come. Wow. Notwithstanding all I have read on sites like this about aspersions on Mark Sullivan, I'd put up with a awfully lot to get an experience and a trophy like that!  Norman Solberg International lawyer back in the US after 25 years and, having met a few of the bad guys and governments here and around the world, now focusing on private trusts that protect wealth from them. NRA Life Member for 50 years, NRA Endowment Member from 2014, NRA Patron from 2016. | |||
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I was of the understanding that maneless Tsavo male lions, were so due to genetics. they also have a unique social structure in their prides, that differ somewhat to the lion prides[with maned males] of other regions. Scientists have suggested that male Tsavo lions do grow manes but that the region’s tangled thorn bushes tear away tufts of hair as the lions hunt and chase their prey. This theory was dispelled by observations of maneless male lions in arid grasslands lacking thorn bush. Research suggests that Tsavo lions have actually evolved to be maneless over many generations. This may be because of the high environmental cost of possessing a mane in the hot, dry Tsavo landscape, and the hindrance a mane would cause when negotiating the thorns and bramble of Tsavo’s thick undergrowth. | |||
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Fujo - How old they have to be to produce the tufts on the back of their front legs - that I'm not sure? I would expect that varies, just like mane development. But to insinuate wild lions do not produce big tufts of hair on their elbows is simply FALSE! I know for a fact, cause I've personally shot several of em. The Lion I personally shot in Lukwati last year - most certainly has big tufts of hair on the elbows of his front legs, you just don't see em in the pics. I have it on video, and it will air on national tv here in the states in about 10 days. CAN SOMEONE POST A 39 SECOND VIDEO ON HERE, IF I TEXT/EMAIL IT TO YOU FROM MY I-PHONE? If so, please contact me. Fujo, you will clearly see then my Lukwati Lion - and his big tuft of hair on his "right" elbow. He's the same on the other side too. How about the pics below Fujo? If I would have known I needed em, I would have taken pics of other wild lions I have seen with the same. Wild Lion I took in Zimbabwe in 2002! Just took the pic in my office a few minutes ago.  photo 45 by globalhunts, on Flickr Wild Lion I took in Botswana in 2008! Just took pic in my office a few minutes ago.  photo (2) by globalhunts, on Flickr Wild Lion I took in Mozambique May 2013! I took this pic as it was obvious this lion had exceptional tufts of hair on the backs of his front elbows.  12 by globalhunts, on Flickr | |||
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I once knew a Kiwi who used to go with a girl that had nice tufts on the backs of her front elbows ... and she had nice teats in front of the fronts of her back elbows too ... He said she was not baaaa-aaa-d at all. Free-ranger too! NZ, where men are men and sheep are scared, don't ewe know?  Just helping Jorge get to 5 pages, every little tuft helps. | |||
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Aaron, you sent me that video shortly after you shot him. I just watched it again and he definitely has black tufts of hair on his elbows. Would you like for me to attempt to post it here for you? | |||
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Todd - Sure, please have at it. I have tried to load it below, no idea if this is gonna work? Nope - guess not????? [flash=http://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786]width="400" height="225" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=3c8f119c61&photo_id=9420223914" bgcolor="#000000" allowFullScreen="true"[/flash] | |||
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Here you go Aaron:  | |||
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Todd - Thanks man!!! Fujo - Pics and video of my Lukwati Lion, all of which are wild lions. What more do you need to see? | |||
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Good stuff  | |||
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Aaron: The tale of the tape says it all without a shadow of doubt - the pics you posted don't and maybe next time let's have a few showing some teeth as well | |||
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 Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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+1 | |||
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Nice lion and nice shot in that video. Dead lion shot again still has the heart to jump out of the camera range using only his hind legs. I wonder how far he went after that. Cats are resilient. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Mark Sullivan Lion (1 picture)
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