Mark Sullivan Lion (1 picture)

31 July 2013, 23:54

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
He shot the Wizard of OZ lion! That thing is over 70 years old!!

Seriously, if someone wants to question whether he is 12 or not matters not the least to me. Stating he is 12 doesn't get me hot and bothered, nor does questioning the fact that he might not be. Who cares?

Here is the rub. The lion is not 12 or even close. He is probably 6...7 at best...which is fine. But the chance of ever encoutering a 12 yr old male lion in the wild is slim enough and it would not look anything like this lion...esp the teeth.

Regarding lion...we need the facts kept honest and straight so that clients have realistic expectations.

01 August 2013, 00:01

L. David Keith

Very nice

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"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson

Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......

"If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you."

01 August 2013, 00:08

MARK H. YOUNG

Beautiful lion!

01 August 2013, 00:33

JGRaider

Pardon me, but I'll probably withhold telling someone how great they are, or what a great accomplishment it is until I know more details. It's gorgeous for sure. Flame away boys....I've got more azzz than you've got teeth.

01 August 2013, 00:35

Bakes

What's happening here, two pages and no ones had a crack at MS

Now I don't want to have a shot at him but having never been on a guided hunt I don't know if this is the done thing, is it normal for the PH to pose with the trophy without the hunter in the photo? Again I don't want to turn this into a MS bash but I just want to know.

01 August 2013, 02:09

cjfoster

Damn fine lion!!

01 August 2013, 03:08

Aaron Neilson

Shawn - The lion is a fabulous trophy for sure! Most certainly not 12 yrs old, not even close, but who cares? He's a great Lion, certainly 6 plus - making him legal in TZ, so congrats to the hunter and to Mark as well. The only reason to point that out is, as Lane says - its important to be as close to accurate as possible when providing aging info to the "public", nothing more.

Mark and I have had many conversations over the past few years. I like Mark a lot, and glad to see he's doing well.

Fujo on the other hand is obviously in need of seeing a few more fully mature/wild lions, if he thinks for a second that wild lions do not grow big tufts of hair on the backs of their elbows/front legs. Hi Fujo!!

01 August 2013, 04:10

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Bakes:
What's happening here, two pages and no ones had a crack at MS

Now I don't want to have a shot at him but having never been on a guided hunt I don't know if this is the done thing, is it normal for the PH to pose with the trophy without the hunter in the photo? Again I don't want to turn this into a MS bash but I just want to know.

I've had several of my PHs pose with the trophy without me in the shot. Even had some of the trackers holding my or the PH's rifle, in a shot or two without me in it.

Bothers me not in the least. Why would it be an issue? They put me on the animal in the first place!

01 August 2013, 04:35

TrophyShotPrints

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Why would it be an issue? They put me on the animal in the first place!

Well said Todd

01 August 2013, 05:26

larryshores

Hell of a lion regardless of the age.

01 August 2013, 05:58

Nakihunter

I have never seen a trophy lion close up but I have compared photos a lot 7 that animals teeth are worn down. The canines are lot smaller than many trophy lion photos on AR - unless the head is so big that the proportion is misleading!

Thanks for sharing.

01 August 2013, 05:58

ExpressYourself

I just got back to this post. Again, I can’t comment on the age as I wasn't there and can only share what I was told. Aaron and Lane, I do appreciate your opinions and input judging by what is shown in the photo. I do not have info to share regarding where this lion was killed or anything additional.

I am glad so many are able to enjoy this fabulous lion and are engaging in positive conversation about him.

Regards,
Shawn

Shawn Joyce
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01 August 2013, 07:32

bwana cecil

quote:
posted document.write('<nobr>'+ myTimeZone('Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:50:12 GMT-0700', '31 July 2013 18:50')+'</nobr>');31 July 2013 18:5031 July 2013 18:50Hide Postquote:Originally posted by bwana cecil:Not knowing sheep shit from Shinola shoe polish about lions, I am only asking, wouldn't a 12yr old lions teeth be worn down more than those?Magnificent lion by the way. It matters not! He is a good lion, and of legal age for harvest, and that is all that counts about this lion. Further comment is not needed here!.........................................................................

I simply ask a question as I stated, I don't know about lions.
He made the claim it was 12yrs old, I just wanted some confirmation.
As for further comment not needed here, I'll comment as I please when I please.
You sure can get your panties in a wad over mighty small things.

01 August 2013, 08:40

Mike Mitchell

If there was ever a site with more know-it-all loudmouth jack wagons on the Internet other than here, I don't know where it would be.

Terrific lion.

01 August 2013, 11:16

BenKK

Mike Mitchell, that is a GREAT first post! You have style!

Welcome aboard!

01 August 2013, 11:48

Trax

quote:

The lion is a fabulous trophy for sure! Most certainly not 12 yrs old, not even close, but who cares?

people come to AR not just to hear accounts of successful hunts,
but to also[hopefully] be properly educated on certain species.

quote:
Originally posted by Bakes:
... is it normal for the PH to pose with the trophy without the hunter in the photo? Again I don't want to turn this into a MS bash but I just want to know.

I guess some people can look at their wedding photos, noticing that there are way more images of ones trophy wife with the best man
rather than the groom, and thinking thats it quite normal...

on the other hand, I find it deceiving that when a PH has played a major/critical roll in finding & securing/retrieving an animal,
that the paying client then ends up in the glory photo, taking acclaim for the hunt.

01 August 2013, 12:02

BaxterB

quote:
If there was ever a site with more know-it-all loudmouth jack wagons on the Internet other than here, I don't know where it would be.

24 Hour Campfire?

01 August 2013, 15:00

Mark R

quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
quote:
If there was ever a site with more know-it-all loudmouth jack wagons on the Internet other than here, I don't know where it would be.

24 Hour Campfire?

Funny that.......

Cheers,
Mark.

01 August 2013, 18:06

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
If there was ever a site with more know-it-all loudmouth jack wagons on the Internet other than here, I don't know where it would be.

Terrific lion.

If there was ever a site with more up-tight, hyper-sensitive, I get my feelings hurt easier/more than most women, on the internet - other than here, I don't know where it would be?

Lane is simply providing factual info, as it pertains to this lion - in hopes that most will look/learn and use that info when field judging their next trophy lion. He made no criticism, nor have I. In fact, we both agree he's a fabulous lion, certainly of legal age in TZ, and a huge congrats to the hunter/PH. I consider Mark a friend, and very much enjoy the conversations we have on a semi-frequent basis.

Why providing some factual info, in hopes of continued education to the hunting public - is considered being a "know it all - jackwagon", completely evades me? Thankfully Lane has taken on the role of "whipping boy" in pursuit of what's best for the longevity of the wild lion. Lane is my friend, and he knows where I stand on the issue - thanks Lane.

01 August 2013, 18:39

jorge

Well I predicted at least five pages of sand-in-the-mangina syndrome about this thread and it looks like we're on our way!

01 August 2013, 19:16

fujotupu

.......... Moved to the Lion thread .......

01 August 2013, 21:20

drummondlindsey

Did he tell you how the lion chose to die?

01 August 2013, 22:21

ledvm

In an effort to not spoil the "OP's" original post...to discuss the lions age...I started this thread.

02 August 2013, 00:15

D R Hunter

quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Did he tell you how the lion chose to die?

Sigh...

02 August 2013, 04:06

86thecat

quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Did he tell you how the lion chose to die?

My guess is he would have chosen to die of old age on top of a beautiful red haired lioness that was just too much for his heart to handle for the fourth time that day.....
but a little hunting seems to created other circumstances.

02 August 2013, 04:33

Trax

quote:
Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
Mark felt the lion is likely 12 years plus.

Maybe -ExpressYourself- at some point may be able to elaborate on why MS believes the Lion is 12yrs+,
ie; what physical factors did he observe in that particular cat, to make that assertion.
...I am asking this purely for educational purposes.

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
Regarding lion...we need the facts kept honest and straight so that clients have realistic expectations.

Indeed, that would be the decent mature-minded thing to do.

02 August 2013, 05:59

Anjin

Whatever its age, that ain't no baby lion!

I defer to those who know more about them, since I have no idea how to age lions. Yes, it is nice to avoid exaggeration, but that only goes so far, since we see it ALL the time on these sites.

OYOH, this magnificent lion seems to have a somewhat scruffy mane, which suggests to me that either age or habitat has had some effect on it. Beyond that, the photo only gives data about the head and some teeth. There might be other indicators that we are not seeing.

Compare Patterson's Tsavo maneater lions, big males with essentially no remaining manes, supposedly worn off by thorn bush habitat. I have seen them several times in Chicago's Field Museum. Granted, Patterson had them made into rugs, so when Marshall Field bought them from him and had them mounted, they had to be smaller than in real life (cf. photos in Patterson's book -- original copies, of which I have one, have far better photos than the later reprints.) Even so, those are very big old lions.

Frankly, from the limited info, it sounds like the hunt of a lifetime, never to be forgotten. 45 minutes in a blind waiting for dawn to come. Wow.

Notwithstanding all I have read on sites like this about aspersions on Mark Sullivan, I'd put up with a awfully lot to get an experience and a trophy like that!

02 August 2013, 06:14

Trax

quote:
Originally posted by Anjin:

Compare Patterson's Tsavo maneater lions, big males with essentially no remaining manes, supposedly worn off by thorn bush habitat.

I was of the understanding that maneless Tsavo male lions, were so due to genetics.
they also have a unique social structure in their prides, that differ somewhat to the lion prides[with maned males] of other regions.

Scientists have suggested that male Tsavo lions do grow manes but that the region’s tangled thorn bushes tear away tufts of hair
as the lions hunt and chase their prey.
This theory was dispelled by observations of maneless male lions in arid grasslands lacking thorn bush.
Research suggests that Tsavo lions have actually evolved to be maneless over many generations.
This may be because of the high environmental cost of possessing a mane in the hot, dry Tsavo landscape,
and the hindrance a mane would cause when negotiating the thorns and bramble of Tsavo’s thick undergrowth.

02 August 2013, 06:22

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

...............

Fujo on the other hand is obviously in need of seeing a few more fully mature/wild lions, if he thinks for a second that wild lions do not grow big tufts of hair on the backs of their elbows/front legs. Hi Fujo!!

The 2 exemplary lions taken on your hunt in Lukwati a year ago were not fluffy elbowed; the lion taken by the charming young lady according to you, was not just a mature lion but an OLD, sparsely maned lion.
Yours had a mane that was almost second to none but that too showed no signs of fluff on the elbows, well the right one anyway.

Fujo - How old they have to be to produce the tufts on the back of their front legs - that I'm not sure? I would expect that varies, just like mane development. But to insinuate wild lions do not produce big tufts of hair on their elbows is simply FALSE! I know for a fact, cause I've personally shot several of em.

The Lion I personally shot in Lukwati last year - most certainly has big tufts of hair on the elbows of his front legs, you just don't see em in the pics. I have it on video, and it will air on national tv here in the states in about 10 days.
CAN SOMEONE POST A 39 SECOND VIDEO ON HERE, IF I TEXT/EMAIL IT TO YOU FROM MY I-PHONE? If so, please contact me.

Fujo, you will clearly see then my Lukwati Lion - and his big tuft of hair on his "right" elbow. He's the same on the other side too.

How about the pics below Fujo? If I would have known I needed em, I would have taken pics of other wild lions I have seen with the same.

Wild Lion I took in Zimbabwe in 2002! Just took the pic in my office a few minutes ago.

photo 45 by globalhunts, on Flickr

Wild Lion I took in Botswana in 2008! Just took pic in my office a few minutes ago.

photo (2) by
globalhunts, on Flickr

Wild Lion I took in Mozambique May 2013! I took this pic as it was obvious this lion had exceptional tufts of hair on the backs of his front elbows.

12 by globalhunts, on Flickr

02 August 2013, 06:38

RIP

I once knew a Kiwi who used to go with a girl that had nice tufts on the backs of her front elbows ...
and she had nice teats in front of the fronts of her back elbows too ...
He said she was not baaaa-aaa-d at all. Free-ranger too!
NZ, where men are men and sheep are scared, don't ewe know?

Just helping Jorge get to 5 pages, every little tuft helps.

02 August 2013, 06:53

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

...............

Fujo on the other hand is obviously in need of seeing a few more fully mature/wild lions, if he thinks for a second that wild lions do not grow big tufts of hair on the backs of their elbows/front legs. Hi Fujo!!

The 2 exemplary lions taken on your hunt in Lukwati a year ago were not fluffy elbowed; the lion taken by the charming young lady according to you, was not just a mature lion but an OLD, sparsely maned lion.
Yours had a mane that was almost second to none but that too showed no signs of fluff on the elbows, well the right one anyway.

Fujo - How old they have to be to produce the tufts on the back of their front legs - that I'm not sure? I would expect that varies, just like mane development. But to insinuate wild lions do not produce big tufts of hair on their elbows is simply FALSE! I know for a fact, cause I've personally shot several of em.

The Lion I personally shot in Lukwati last year - most certainly has big tufts of hair on the elbows of his front legs, you just don't see em in the pics. I have it on video, and it will air on national tv here in the states in about 10 days.
CAN SOMEONE POST A 39 SECOND VIDEO ON HERE, IF I TEXT/EMAIL IT TO YOU FROM MY I-PHONE? If so, please contact me.

Fujo, you will clearly see then my Lukwati Lion - and his big tuft of hair on his "right" elbow. He's the same on the other side too.

How about the pics below Fujo? If I would have known I needed em, I would have taken pics of other wild lions I have seen with the same.

Wild Lion I took in Zimbabwe in 2002! Just took the pic in my office a few minutes ago.

photo 45 by globalhunts, on Flickr

Wild Lion I took in Botswana in 2008! Just took pic in my office a few minutes ago.

photo (2) by
globalhunts, on Flickr

Wild Lion I took in Mozambique May 2013! I took this pic as it was obvious this lion had exceptional tufts of hair on the backs of his front elbows.

12 by globalhunts, on Flickr

Aaron, you sent me that video shortly after you shot him. I just watched it again and he definitely has black tufts of hair on his elbows. Would you like for me to attempt to post it here for you?

02 August 2013, 07:09

Aaron Neilson

Todd - Sure, please have at it. I have tried to load it below, no idea if this is gonna work? Nope - guess not?????

[flash=http://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786]width="400" height="225" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=3c8f119c61&photo_id=9420223914" bgcolor="#000000" allowFullScreen="true"[/flash]

02 August 2013, 07:23

Todd Williams

Here you go Aaron:

02 August 2013, 07:48

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Here you go Aaron:

Todd - Thanks man!!!

Fujo - Pics and video of my Lukwati Lion, all of which are wild lions. What more do you need to see?

02 August 2013, 08:24

TrophyShotPrints

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
I once knew a Kiwi who used to go with a girl that had nice tufts on the backs of her front elbows ...
and she had nice teats in front of the fronts of her back elbows too ...
He said she was not baaaa-aaa-d at all. Free-ranger too!
NZ, where men are men and sheep are scared, don't ewe know?

Just helping Jorge get to 5 pages, every little tuft helps.

Good stuff

02 August 2013, 21:06

fujotupu

Aaron:

The tale of the tape says it all without a shadow of doubt - the pics you posted don't and maybe next time let's have a few showing some teeth as well

02 August 2013, 22:38

JBrown

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:

Note the absence of tufts on the elbow which denotes "free range"

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
Aaron:

The tale of the tape says it all without a shadow of doubt - the pics you posted don't and maybe next time let's have a few showing some teeth as well

Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown