quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The truth isn't pretty sometimes nor politically correct.

You still a go in Sango for October?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The truth isn't pretty sometimes nor politically correct.

Exactly! In this case, JDollar is spot on - whether you like it or not. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with his comment at all, considering its the TRUTH!

Just imagine this situation in reverse. Whitey over-throwing the highly out-numbered and indiginous owned, Save Conservancy. The world would be there in 5 minutes, ready for war! It would never be allowed. Yet, white Zimbos have faced this horrible crime for 10 yrs now - and not a word is said about it? Shameful!

Safari2:

Yes. Absent some other disaster, I am on for October in Sango.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The truth isn't pretty sometimes nor politically correct.

You got that right. There is a reason that nearly all sub-saharan nations are decades away from leaving from leaving third world status (if ever). Even the countries with oil resources are doing very little to improve the overall condition of their nations and peoples.

Look at Zimbabwe. I'd bet that Zimbabwe of 1960 before the war, and Zimbabwe of 1980 after the war, were in much better condition overall than Zimbabwe of today. Furthermore, there is not much optimism for Zimbabwe 2020 being better than today's Zimbabwe.

As was said earlier,....The truth isn't pretty sometimes nor politically correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The truth isn't pretty sometimes nor politically correct.

Exactly! In this case, JDollar is spot on - whether you like it or not. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with his comment at all, considering its the TRUTH!

Just imagine this situation in reverse. Whitey over-throwing the highly out-numbered and indiginous owned, Save Conservancy. The world would be there in 5 minutes, ready for war! It would never be allowed. Yet, white Zimbos have faced this horrible crime for 10 yrs now - and not a word is said about it? Shameful!

The problem is 3 fold. As Larry stated the local or bush level. Secondly the community and MP level etc ie ZANU-PF for Zimbabwe and third at the National or Presidential Level. Insert you disaster country of choice. Kenya, Zim and Botswana all make great examples. So I guess by agreeing I am giving the hunting community a bad name. So be it.

Jeff

And don't forget the evil antihunting western influence and the eastern influence grabbing all the land and resources they can.(China)

J Dollar,
I,m with you 100%.. If it makes the hunting community look bad so be it! SteveGI, your a lucky
man, you don't have to deal with this kind of SHIT, your telling me you can Rape ,Pillage, and Murder innocent people, and no one should comment?? Shame On YOU!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
The truth isn't pretty sometimes nor politically correct.

Exactly! In this case, JDollar is spot on - whether you like it or not. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with his comment at all, considering its the TRUTH!

Just imagine this situation in reverse. Whitey over-throwing the highly out-numbered and indiginous owned, Save Conservancy. The world would be there in 5 minutes, ready for war! It would never be allowed. Yet, white Zimbos have faced this horrible crime for 10 yrs now - and not a word is said about it? Shameful!

100% correct. Most of us cannot fathom losing our home and business because of politics and racism.

it's nice to see that at least some people here recognize the passion i feel when i see blatant thievery/reverse racism causing the ruination of a fantastic wildlife resource, especially when it will ultimately cause massive problems for the local(black as well as white) people. sorry Steve just doesn't get it but i will always call it as i see it. chips will have to fall where they may. my PC days are far behind me.

The days of colonial rule ended long ago (as much as that might dismay some members here) ... ... ... and there's no going back (not that any rational, reasonable, compassionate human being would want to). That's the truth.

Are there evil-doers (to borrow a phrase from W.) in Africa? No doubt. There are evil-doers everywhere, even here in America - all kinds of evil-doers doing all kinds of evil ... (and they're not all black).

There's not a lot of difference between the character of "GREEDY BLACKS INTENT ON ENRICHING THEMSELVES" in the case of Save' valley and the character of the GREEDY WHITE MEN INTENT ON ENRICHING THEMSELVES who almost brought down the world's economies a few years ago (which might still happen).

Have the methods of the Zim war-veterans and ZANU-PF been more up-close-and-personally brutal. Absolutely ... but one might argue that the methods of the aforementioned GREEDY WHITE MEN (sic) were more devious and cowardly - and resulted in far greater suffering.

We live in a complex world; and it's all too easy to just to toss off a comment and write the whole continent off (people and wildlife included). But there's no value in that. It's just a way of releasing one's frustrations, counterproductive - and a waste of time.

I've said my piece. I'm moving on.

You know Steve, there are murderers and baby rapers out there as well, but we really weren't talking about them. Would I be wrong in interpreting the above post as moral relativism? If so, I am sure we could all find some examples that make any sin we've ever committed look small.

I do seem to recall that the Zim government brought race into this repeatedly. Now it is off limits to everyone else?

I just got a note from my friends in Zimbabwe informing me that Mr. Chadenga, the Director General of National Parks, died yesterday. Since he was the main person spearheading all of this nonsense of giving the Save Conservancy permits to Zanu PF thugs, it will be interesting to see if Chadenga's death changes anything in the negotiations going on internal to Zimbabwe Governement. I sure hope it does!

I'm surprised there haven't been more death notices.

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:
The days of colonial rule ended long ago (as much as that might dismay some members here) ... ... ... and there's no going back (not that any rational, reasonable, compassionate human being would want to). That's the truth.

Well to that...I will relate a true story.

Several years ago while hunting in Chewore South...we had a real personable game scout. For a game scout...he was an older fellow of 42. Along the way...we got to talking about Zim and how it had changed. When he filled out his part of the license...I saw he had beautiful hand writing and could do math fairly well. He also had fairly good English language skills as well even though he preferred to speak Shona.

In our conversation...I asked him about his education and his family. He told me that when he was a kid (born ~1965) he had a school to go to provided by the Rhodesian government where he was taught the 3 R's well. He went on to tell how they had bush clinics available with reasonable healthcare and that in general...life was without much worry.

Then...he went on to tell me how now many of his kids had died and none of them could read, write, or do math. They lived far away and he sent them money but it was barely enough to exist. He ended his story with: "Zim no good place to live now".

So...there is one person who might want to go back to the days of Ian Smith at least.

Lets hope the cause of Chadenga's death is catching!

http://allafrica.com/stories/201209060592.html



Zimbabwe: Save Conservancy, Zim Shoots Self in Foot


By Tinashe Madava, 5 September 2012


THE Zimbabwean political scene is like a tainted tiara. While the country is blessed with vast natural resources, bickering and looting has seen the majority of the country's population benefiting very little in a sea of abundance.

The Save Valley Conservancy is the latest among a growing list of political war zones unravelling in the country under the guise of black economic empowerment aka indigenisation.

The move by government to issue hunting permits to 25 black "aspiring" ZANU-PF safari operators at the Save Valley Conserv-ancy in the Lowveld has torched a storm among the local community, conservationists as well as political foes.

Minister of Environment and Natural Resources Management, Francis Nhe-ma, has come under fire for awarding the permits that would allow ZANU-PF bigwigs to bring rich clients to hunt down the game, particularly exposing the endangered rhino, sparking a bitter war of words among cabinet colleagues.

Tourism Minister, Walter Mzembi and the Zimbabwe Tourism Authority (ZTA) have come out guns blazing accusing Nhema of parcelling out plots at Save Conservancy without regard to the bigger picture: threats to Zimbabwe's co-hosting of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UN-WTO) Congress with neighbouring Zambia next year.

The beneficiaries, among them, senior ZANU-PF poli-ticians Shuvai Mahofa, Stan Mudenge, Titus Maluleke and other top military officials were granted the leases at Save Valley Conservancy, a prime wildlife sanctuary in the Lowveld, four months after a report by the Parlia-mentary Committee on Natural Resources had condemned the occupation of the conservancy.

The legislators, drawn from the three political parties, signatories to the Global Political Agreement, had recommended that conservancies must not be allocated to individuals at the expense of whole communities who were earmarked to benefit in the spirit of indigenisation.

They recommended that the Natural Resources Ministry should award leases through share transfers, joint ventures and community trusts in a move reminiscent of the Campfire projects.

But this did not happen.

Instead, Nhema's move made a mockery of the parliamentary committee that sort to bring sanity to the chaotic land reform programme in the wildlife sector.

The committee had concluded that: "These beneficiaries were merely imposed to conservators despite assurances from the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment that there was a transparent system in place to identify indigenous partners through the Zimbabwe Investment Authority's independent board using the databases for both foreign and local investors."

Yet in some circles, the debate has since assumed racial overtones where white farmers are seen as resisting the coming in of black farmers in the sector.

Such reports have been consistent with the land ref-orm exercise.

A Chegutu district lands officer had to resign after being labelled a "white sympathiser" when he gave evidence in court that tended to support a white farmer.

Charges of double dipping, aiding and abetting poaching against the black licence holders by the white farmers were met with counter-accusations of unwillingness to work with indigenous people and outright greed levelled against the white farmers.

Yet, the beneficiaries of Nhema's benevolence have also received farms under the land reform exercise.

One reader who left a comment on The Financial Gaz-ette website, Progress Mupopoti, has lambasted Nhema and labelled politicians as being "greedy" for mus-cling into the Save Valley Conservancy

"Why do you give greedy politicians the opportunity to plunder our natural resources in the name of indigenisation?

"A wise man should have co-opted communities around Save Cons-ervancy into wild life conservation through forming trusts with direct interest into companies of conservators."

Mupopoti said for many years locals have wat-ched with envy, while politicians harvested rich rewards from the land reform programme, leaving locals in abject poverty.

"We therefore don't see much of a difference, when it comes to empowerment, between the former and new conservators. The communities are the biggest losers in this stand-off and will remain losers until such time governance restores the power to communities and when environmental issues become governance issues," added Mupopoti.

In a recent interview with this paper, vice-chairperson of the Save Valley Conservancy, Wilfred Pabst, also labelled Nhema's move as an enrichment exercise that had nothing to do with indigenisation.

"We were not consulted. Everyone, including our chairman (Basil Nyabadza) was taken aback. It has nothing to do with indigenisation. There is a lot more going on," said Pabst.

Now, there are revelations that the country risks a ban from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, emanating from the chaos in the Save Valley Conserv-ancy saga, a move set to cost the country US$30 million in safari business.

Trophy exports to the US constitute 80 percent of the hunting industry's total exports.

The hunting season runs from April to November each year and some critics have questioned the wisdom of awarding hunting permits in the middle of the hunting season.

Some analysts have said the country's image has been dented ahead of the co-hosting of the UNWTO general assembly next year.

The tourism indaba is also under threat from revelations that officials in the Ministry had doctored information in their bid document with the effect of misrepresenting facts on the ground.

All this has raised the question why the country is constantly shooting itself in the foot.

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:
The days of colonial rule ended long ago (as much as that might dismay some members here) ... ... ... and there's no going back (not that any rational, reasonable, compassionate human being would want to). That's the truth.

Steve, I've been hunting Zim on a fairly regular basis since the mid 90's. Since 2002, I have yet to have a SINGLE black-Zimbabwean, over the age of 45 plus, tell me they were glad the white man was NOT still in power - not one, and I've asked alot of them that question. Its not a race thing to me, its a fact thing! Before, the entire country was more productive, more profitable and provided more opportunity for all, including the locals, and many of them remember that well. So ya, colonial rule is gone - but like the old saying goes. "Be careful what you wish for, cause you just might get it!"

Nixon Dzingai's chef, who is roughly 50 - said it to me best. "The white man is different - yes that's true. But unlike our own people, he has compassion for others, and our people have none." "God made white men, and god made black men, he made us different for a reason, and he brought the white man to this land for a reason. I think he did so, because he knew we needed their help." Right or wrong, that's exactly what he told me a few months ago. He wants the govt to bring back the white farmers, let them have their lands back, let them have their businesses back, etc, etc. He said it himself - "they provided jobs, wealth and opportunity for us all" Now, we all have nothing! Except of course for the few mega-wealthy officials, who have stolen everything from their own people (black & white) and are looking to do the same in the SVC.

More ZANU PF Save Conservancy ‘looters’ named
http://www.swradioafrica.com

By Tererai Karimakwenda
06 September, 2012

A more detailed list of military officials and top ZANU PF chefs, given
concessions in the Save Valley Conservancy, was revealed this week and the
list reads like a who-is-who of the Mugabe regime elite.

The Conservancy is the current focus of a ZANU PF land grab campaign that
has also exposed divisions within the party. A group of ZANU PF chefs known
as the ‘Masvingo Initiative’ claim to have taken over the Conservancy,
ignoring warnings about the destruction their actions will bring to the
wildlife and tourism sectors.

The group, including Higher Education Minister Stan Mudenge, Masvingo
Governor Titus Maluleke and war vet Shuvai Mahofa, were earlier this year
given 25 year land leases in the Conservancy and recently granted hunting
licences by the National Parks chief Vitalis Chadenga.

In the name of ‘indigenisation’, this Masvingo gang appointed some of their
own officials as the new Conservancy leaders, after invading the area and
disrupting a Conservancy management meeting last month.

A more detailed list has now been revealed by the independent Newsday
newspaper, and it includes several active and retired officials from the
military, intelligence and ZANU PF structures.

Among them are the Health deputy minister Douglas Mombeshora, ZANU PF
central committee member Enock Porusingazi, war vet leader Joseph Chinotimba
and the late Vice-President Simon Muzenda’s son, Tongai.

Charles Taffs from the Commercial farmers Union (CFU) told SW Radio Africa
that he could not confirm whether the names on the new list were involved in
the Save takeover, but he said there is definitely massive looting of Save
Conservancy taking place.
“These individuals would appear to be positioning themselves to make a huge
amount of money. I think it is high time the rest of the world takes a stern
position against what is happening in this country,” Taffs said.

Taffs explained that if the United Nations World Tourism Organisation goes
ahead with their General Assembly in Victoria Falls next year, the whole
event would be a farce against this chaotic background of looting.

“The Save Conservancy looting is the tip of the iceberg of what is happening
in this entire country and looting , pillaging and raping of land and
mineral resources is just astronomical,” Taffs explained.

He added: “What really upsets me is that the rest of the world has sat back
and allowed this rape and pillaging to continue until such a time as its
affected one or a couple of the high-powered investors from their own
country.”

The full list of beneficiaries published in Newsday:

Lieutenant Colonel David Moyo, Major General Gibson Mashingaidze, Retired
Colonel Claudius Makova, Assistant Commissioner Connel Dube, Major General
Engelbert Rugeje, Brigadier General Livingstone Chineka, Masvingo Provincial
Intelligence Officer Chibaya,

Higher Education minister Stan Mudenge, Health deputy Minister Douglas
Mombeshora, ZANU PF Central Committee member Enock Porusingazi, MPs Ailess
Baloyi, Abraham Sithole, Samson Mukanduri, Noel Mandebvu, Shuvai Mahofa,
Titus Maluleke and Ronald Rundava.

Health deputy minister Douglas Mombeshora, ZANU PF central committee member
Enock Porusingazi, war vet leader Joseph Chinotimba and the late
Vice-President Simon Muzenda’s son, Tongai.

ex-Tourism secretary Sylvester Maunganidze, Nelson Mawema, Farai Mukota,
Bertha Chikwama, one Motokai, Chiefs Gudo and Mundau Tshovani, Tafadzwa
Ngarande, Ray Musimbwa, Grey Mushava, Josiah Pasi, Jeddy Jaboon, Gladman
Chibememe, Masvingo provincial administrator Felix Chikovo, Elliot Takawira,
believed to be related to the late former ZANU PF vice-president Leopold
Takawira among others.

quote:

Sooner or later, you gotta call a spade, a spade.

i have had the exact same experience as Lane and Aaron posted above. many black Zimbabweans ( especially those over 40) freely tell you that things are much worse in their country since Mugs and the Zanu-PF took over. Zim has gone from being the production bread basket of southern Africa to being southern Africa's biggest basket case- existing only on food aid provided by the evil white governments in the first world. shame on the US and the EU for not doing more to feed people left starving by the fine patriotic comrades in the Zanu-PF

I have heard similar things as well. It doesn't take a genius to see that these fools have wrecked the place.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i have had the exact same experience as Lane and Aaron posted above. many black Zimbabweans ( especially those over 40) freely tell you that things are much worse in their country since Mugs and the Zanu-PF took over. Zim has gone from being the production bread basket of southern Africa to being southern Africa's biggest basket case- existing only on food aid provided by the evil white governments in the first world. shame on the US and the EU for not doing more to feed people left starving by the fine patriotic comrades in the Zanu-PF

Yup! Same here, when I farmed some 45klms out of town, it took 25 to 35 minutes for an ambulance to show, now folk in town, die hours later on the sidewalk waiting for an ambulance that only arrives to pick up a corpse.
State run schools here are approaching the end of the school year, have yet to receive books for the learners.
Farms bought by the state and given to Black Folk as a vote catcher are standing derelict and are reverting back to non productive bush.
South Africa has gone from a net food exporter to a net food importer.
So, it is not just Zimbabwe, although the rot is far more advanced, it is an African ailment.
Of course it is now de rigueur and politically correct to slander and deride the whites that built the continent up to a stage where it was starting to show positive results by damning them as "colonialists." On the other hand, "Black Nationalism" and "Afro Socialism" have proven to be nothing but a reversal of all positive development.
Throughout the previous 50 years, many and succesive Black Governments have proven that they are incapable of managing themselves and the only manner that they know to generate wealth is to steal it or beg for it.
Now they demanding a say in the running of the IMF and World Bank. Imagine going to to your bank manager, demanding a loan and then setting the terms of that loan yourself. Arrogance driven by racism.

The farms and ranches taken by the current government and given to Black members from what i saw has been run into the ground...

NO grass and the trees and shrubs are being cut down for fire wood.

Trees up rooted and put in piles to be burned and some corn or cotton being grown...looks like a very poor crop to me...many rows never came up...

i have never seen so many individuals walking on the road with a roll of wire and a wire cutter in my life...and i do not think that they are fixing fence...same kind of wire we found on snared animals that were walking around with a snare on there leg.

Who ever gave these individuals goats to provide a living did not know what damage they did...goats eat everything and pull the roots out to boot...i know i saw a least 50,000 acres that had very few trees and no grass and i do mean no grass as far as you could see.

When the wild life is gone the local villages will be begging for more food from the government and foreign governments...the spiral is out of hand...

i have met some Zimbabwe nationals working in south Africa because they can find or have a job and make money. and when they get a leave or break they take there money back to there home village...

The post by "SteveGI" is ludacris. I almost thought it was a joke....

it was a joke- and a very stupid one.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
it was a joke- and a very stupid one.

Agree JD.

It is so refreshing to see the pretense of 'political correctness' stripped from so many recent posts on this thread. I find it equally gratifying to finally have someone like jdollar tell it like it is by cleverly segueing from "a few GREEDY BLACKS INTENT ON ENRICHING THEMSELVES" to what all rational folk really know is the problem: "give Africans half a chance and they f--k up a one car funeral procession".

As several members aptly put it, we're finally hearing truth for a change! And for those of you too thick to understand what that truth is, well like Larry says, the Zim government brings race into the open, so why shouldn't we? Here on AR we're seeing some backbone on the issue of race; backbone like that displayed by 505 gibbs by having an avatar of Robert Mugabe as an ape! Hilarious stuff - and let me tell you, we need more of that kind of high-concept humor when it comes to dealing with uppity blacks in this country (and you know who I'm talking about). And by the way, if some black person doesn't have the sense of humor to see how uproarious it is to depict someone of their race as a monkey - well that's exactly what's wrong with political correctness, and just proves 'those people' don't have the keen sensibility for humor that whites have.

Look, Zimbabwe is probably the most corrupt government in the world - and it's run by blacks - so isn't it logical to infer that its not the character of the people in charge, but rather the race of the people in charge that creates the problem? It's so obvious! And isn't it natural that those suffering that regime's depravities - blacks most especially - would recognize that returning to a white-run apartheid-like government is the only solution, as Lane points out with his heart-rending tale? After all, can any of us possibly conceive of a black man running a democracy? That'll be the day!

Hell, even Aaron has confided how every black over 45 years old that he's met in Zim yearns for the return of the comforting shackles of a white run government. No less an authority than Aaron's camp cook opined that, "(t)he white man is different - yes that's true. But unlike our own people, he has compassion for others, and our people have none." See? That only proves the point that blacks not only want whites to rule them, but they don't trust their own race! You don't need some pointy-headed, ivy league, New York (yep, you know what I mean) intellectual to explain that.

And don't get me started on SteveGI. When he pathetically says that broad and racially insensitive remarks are "exactly the kind of commentary which gives the trophy hunting community a bad name", we all know that sounding rational and humane is a socialist trait from people who don't have the balls to tell it like it is. It's time to shed all that highfalutin intellectual baggage like reason, and instead get in touch with who we really are. Jeez Steve, you're such a pussy! Next time try expressing an opinion unsullied by touchy-feely bullshit like compassion or logic. To quote Aaron's chef again, "God made white men, and god made black men, he made us different for a reason, and he brought the white man to this land for a reason. I think he did so, because he knew we needed their help." Q.E.D.

Thankfully, one of our nerdy book-readin' types offered up his favorite author, Michael Levin, as a brilliant scholar with some terrific insights into this issue. You remember Levin don't you? He has argued for years that blacks aren't as smart as whites because they are genetically inferior and incapable of having high IQs. (As an aside, he also wrote a great piece my family likes to read at Christmas where he defends Scrooge from A Christmas Carol as "an entrepreneur whose ideas and practices benefit his employees, society at large, and himself.") But then, we all knew that already, didn't we? (Now, I wonder when Mr. Levin is going to shine the light of that powerful intellect of his on his own tribe, if you know what I mean.)

With that last aside, and what with the evil veneer of political correctness finally being vanquished from AR, why don't we also say what's on our minds about some of those other pesky 'people' who, like the blacks, should be estopped from running governments. Sure, many of them are okay people, and undoubtedly they, too, have suffered from predations by their own kind, just like the Zimbabweans, but isn't it as much the truth that Jews, Arabs, Hispanics, Muslims, and Swedes are just as - how do I say this - administratively inferior as blacks? Come on, I can tell there are several of you dying to reveal to us your equally considered insights on race and politics outside of Africa.

My friends, we have been spoon-fed a thin gruel of tolerance, acceptance, and anti-bigotry for too long. It's time we all let our inner Neanderthal out. As Aaron so succinctly - and humorously - said, "Sooner or later, you gotta call a spade, a spade".

quote:

And isn't it natural that those suffering that regime's depravities - blacks most especially - would recognize that returning to a white-run apartheid-like government is the only solution, as Lane points out with his heart-rending tale? After all, can any of us possibly conceive of a black man running a democracy? That'll be the day!

Kim,
I would urge you to research Ian Smith's political philosophy and plan for Rhodesia's future before spewing your sarcastic rhetoric. He actaully had a built-in plan for slow integration of parliment...nothing apartheid-like about it.

And...as to your last comment in the quote above...I have not seen any evidence to the contraire...have you?

Your post illustrates the fundamental difference between yours and my own philosophies. You are willing to tolerate decay for your fundemental belief...however flawed they may be. I am not. If the plan is not working...I am for changing it back what was...or at least to something different. Rhodesia WAS WORKING before Mugabe...you cannot argue different.

In my opinion...the democratic party (which I am certain you are a member) is the party of mediocracy...bring the highly successful people down to everyone else's level...hence their mantra this fall..."build America from the middle out".

The USA was not bulit by people with mediocre standards. It was built by the elite...the Henry Fords of America...people much like Mitt Romney and Ian Smith.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

And isn't it natural that those suffering that regime's depravities - blacks most especially - would recognize that returning to a white-run apartheid-like government is the only solution, as Lane points out with his heart-rending tale? After all, can any of us possibly conceive of a black man running a democracy? That'll be the day!

Kim,
I would urge you to research Ian Smith's political philosophy and plan for Rhodesia's future before spewing your sarcastic rhetoric. He actaully had a built-in plan for slow integration of parliment...nothing apartheid-like about it.

And...as to your last comment in the quote above...I have not seen any evidence to the contraire...have you?

Your post illustrates the fundamental difference between yours and my own philosophies. You are willing to tolerate decay for your fundemental belief...however flawed they may be. I am not. If the plan is not working...I am for changing it back what was...or at least to something different. Rhodesia WAS WORKING before Mugabe...you cannot argue different.

In my opinion...the democratic party (which I am certain you are a member) is the party of mediocracy...bring the highly successful people down to everyone else's level...hence their mantra this fall..."build America from the middle out".

The USA was not bulit by people with mediocre standards. It was built by the elite...the Henry Fords of America...people much like Mitt Romney and Ian Smith.

Lane, you're right about one thing: There are fundamental differences in our philosophies.

I believe that prejudice and racism are the product of ignorance, fear, and insecurity, and have no place in decent society. You wear them like a badge of honor. The nature of your bigotry reveals itself when you use a thug like Mugabe as a pretext for trumpeting white rule, and then with a wink and a nod include President Obama as a further exemplar of black incompetence. For you, no black person is suitable as a political leader.

Was the economy better under Ian Smith? - sure. And was England the most powerful country in the world under George III? - yes. Was there full employment under Stalin? - undoubtedly. Did Hitler oversee the fastest economic recovery ever seen in Europe? - absolutely. Did the trains run on time under Mussolini? - always. Was segregated Alabama tranquil under leaders like George Wallace? - yep. Halcyon days for your 'elite', but were the governments under these leaders just and moral and democratic? - not at all. And each saw its inevitable demise as a result of institutionalized injustice.

And by the way, when you use transparent code words like America's "elite", we know whom you're talking about. In your eyes, no black person will ever possess anything but "mediocre standards" or rise to the level of equality with the white man. Obama is just another failed black leader like Mugabe and proof of that race’s inability to lead a country. What's so confounding - and frightening - is that you're a smart guy, Lane.

You’re also wrong in your conviction that I'm a Democrat. I served in three presidential administrations - all of them Republican - including tenure on the White House staff of Bush '41'. I'm a Republican. I have been all my life. I joined the GOP because I was proud of its legacy as the Party of Lincoln, standing up for the rights of those with the least voice in society. Sadly, the party that once cherished individual rights, small government, low taxation, and a strong national defense has been subsumed by folks not unlike yourself whose new priorities are instituting theologically-based laws that would have the police governing our private behavior and who find comfort in being anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-woman, and anti-intellectual. These goals are antithetical to the historical Republican principles of defending the disenfranchised and minimizing government intrusion into our lives.

Folks, I apologize for having intruded philosophy and politics into a post that is supposed to be about African Hunting. And pardon my over-the-top sarcasm in my earlier post. My excuse is that the wrong-headed and sometimes ugly remarks regarding black Africans on this thread compelled a response. As Thomas Paine said, "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

Kim,
I want to thank you for saving me from writing a long post. You have said what I wanted to say on the issue but did it with the brilliance and eloquence I could not produce on my best days.

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

You’re also wrong in your conviction that I'm a Democrat. I served in three presidential administrations - all of them Republican - including tenure on the White House staff of Bush '41'. I'm a Republican. I have been all my life. I joined the GOP because I was proud of its legacy as the Party of Lincoln, standing up for the rights of those with the least voice in society. Sadly, the party that once cherished individual rights, small government, low taxation, and a strong national defense has been subsumed by folks not unlike yourself whose new priorities are instituting theologically-based laws that would have the police governing our private behavior and who find comfort in being anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-woman, and anti-intellectual. These goals are antithetical to the historical Republican principles of defending the disenfranchised and minimizing government intrusion into our lives.

Ditto!! I was a rabid republican but could not stand seeing the party going to the crazy, emotional and in some cases mentally challenged (read Palin and Bachmann and their ilk). Now I am fiercely independent.

I find it quite amusing that the people who support U.S campaigns in foreign countries to promote "democracy", "equality", "justice" through bullets are the same who can seemingly talk endlessly about the "golden" days of white rule in South Africa and Rhodesia.

Harris and KPete are domocrats as they have all the lieing inuendos and talking points of the determined to "ruin the U.S." democrats. God help us fight the enemy within!

Zimbabwean blacks were far better off under white rule!

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Harris and KPete are domocrats as they have all the lieing inuendos and talking points of the determined to "ruin the U.S." democrats. God help us fight the enemy within!

Thank you 376 for making my point why I am not a republican anymore. As far as your claim of lies in my post, could you point them out for this "enemy within" ?

Ah, the ever articulate brain trust from the league of benevolent bigots exposes itself. Huzzah! I'll join Harris in thanking you, 376 steyr, for demonstrating in just three sentences what I couldn't in far too many paragraphs.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Harris and KPete are domocrats (sic) as they have all the lieing (sic) inuendos (sic) and talking points of the (sic) determined to "ruin the U.S." democrats (sic). God help us fight the enemy within!
...
Zimbabwean blacks were far better off under white rule!

Harris, I wouldn't bother plumbing the intellectual depths of 376 steyr on this matter. He is prototypal of modern racism: Unable to fathom that intolerance - whether of minorities or those who oppose his views on race - is the true enemy of democracy.

Damn, I guess I'm an enemy within too.

Btw, if you plan on winning in November, you're going to need us "enemies within." You know, the normal Republicans?

Well to me, it didn't really seem like a "race" thing, it seemed like a "fact" thing! Is the country of Zimbabwe better or worse than they were years ago? I guess you can call me prejudice if you want, but I'm prejudice against ANYONE who rapes/pillages/steals, and brutalizes their own people - period! This, despite the color of their skin.

To me, when the very people who are effected by these changes - say time and time again that the WRONG people are in control, that to me is much more valuable than the opinions of the AR crowd, me included. Guys, I am simply relaying to you - the exact words I have been told, time and time again. Take it for what you will?

I have alot of respect for the locals in Africa, I enjoy spending time with them, learning the ways of the bush from them, and without them the African hunting/experience would NOT be the same. That doesn't mean I want them running my country! No different than you wouldn't want me flying your jet airplane. That's way above my pay grade.

Aaron,
The statement that the current state of Zimbabwe is due to the fact that WRONG people are in control is not disputed at all. The fact that some on this board think that "WRONG" people and "BLACK" people are interchangeable in that statement is what I have a problem with.

As far as Nixon's cook telling you what he feels, I guess he has his opinion. However, you being an experienced hunter and traveler know very well that staff will say things that a client wants to hear. I have seen several videos of trackers shouting "good shot" after an elephant was put down after 10 bad shots, just saying

Kim in his excellent post above has mentioned several examples of good things accomplished by bad political systems. Bringing back apartheid because they provided clinics to the rural areas is shortsighted and racist at best.

quote:

Originally posted by Harris:
Bringing back apartheid because they provided clinics to the rural areas is shortsighted and racist at best.

Is now a good time to point out that it was South Africa that had apartheid not Rhodesia/Zimbabwe?

Rhodesia had white rule but that's entirely different.

That said, perhaps you could name a single thing that's better for any Zimbabwean (whether black, white, pink or purple) under Mugabe than it was under Smith?

I also sometimes find myself wondering why it's racist to speak the truth.......