I'm not for any bailout of any kind, whether personal or business. Let the strong survive.

And what if the bailout keeps the weak from pulling down the strong?

I do not disagree, I generally do not support bailouts either, particularly those that occurred in the automotive industry. That is one reason I drive a Ford. But in my view AIG was different. If they had failed, a lot of "strong" companies would failed along with them.

Yes AIG who seemed to understand that if they were tied in nearly everywhere, they could avoid risk assessment altogether because the Feds would back them if it went wrong. The bailout taught every business that if your failure really hurt, then there is the Feds who will safety net you. I believe that the bailouts reinforced the worst of human behavior and guarantee this will happen again. Had they allowed it to collapse and take down the alleged innocent companies, excusing their utter risk management failures, the Feds could have backed up some of the victims and thereby reinforce to the business community that their are consequences. Now we have to go through this again at some point.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Navaluk:
Larry

It seems obvious that CB, who filed personal bankruptcy, can truthfully list what he did and still go on expensive hunts if another entity paid. Am I wrong? Why assume impropriety? I assume only that he is taking advantage of this poorly run and managed country. Nothing more.

The bailout of AIG was seen as necessary to avoid a massive short term impact. The problem is that humans, especially human society does not learn or change for the better without a painful kick in the nuts. That bailout guaranteed another down the road.

As too outfitted, especially foreign hunts, I believe it is reasonable to rely on outfitters to be hunting in a legit area and by legit means. To start down the path where we hunters are 100% or equally responsible, means that not only do I have to go through all the BS of getting out and back into this currently Mickey Mouse country, but I have to hire lawyers here and in the foreign country to advise as to the legalities of the hunt. Even then I am in trouble if there is a violation. I think it would make more sense to place the liability squarely on the outfitter for selling a illegal product. The hunter should be considered a victim. Obviously that's not true now, but it would be better. It would punish the one without limiting the client base for the decent outfitters.[/QUOTE
True except for the fact that he has repeatedly said he pays his own way.

I agree with you about making outfitters responsible.

I have spoken to film crews in quite a few camps over the years and to a great extent, their hunts are complimentary……… or at the very least, at a greatly reduced rate.

I am not going to comment on CB and whether he pays his own way or not. Obviously things are going to vary with each situation.

I do know that the more 'famous' the hunting show and the host(s), the greater the chances are of free/bargain rate hunts and everything associated with it. It goes far beyond just the hunt and it is not uncommon for airlines to give reduced rates or free complimentary flights for promotion of their airlines, local state or provincial tourism associations have a budget and will in some instances partner with the airlines and hotels, etc. to cover the costs of flights, hotel rooms and in some jurisdictions they can even arrange for extra big game licences to be issued over and above existing allocations.

I know all of this is available out there because I have personally seen these things occur. While there are dozens of fly-by-night crappy hunting shows out there, the better ones have a large viewing audience and are the best bang for the buck as far as hunting shows go IF you decide to go down that road as an outfitter.

Having said all that, there is also the aspect of hunts/flights/accommodations and meals all being written off as a business expense…………….. you have to go on the hunt in order to film it for your show, right?! This even applies to outdoor writers who write for magazines. Obviously I cannot tell you exactly how it all works with the IRS, percentages etc. but I know that this is part of the equation with regards to the business side of things.

It is a lot different than you or I just going hunting as a client…………. we negotiate the best deal we can get and pay it. End of story.

A couple of years ago I was guiding at a camp in northern Canada when a film crew was in filming for a TV show that I personally think stinks. In any event I know that crew was there (host/hunter, two camera guys) completely on the outfitters tab. The only thing they paid for were the licences/trophy fees. Flights were covered by the territorial tourism association and the airlines, as well as all hotels and meals at the hotels before and after the hunt.

In the end they didn't even take the animals that were shot and left them so that they would not have to incur any shipping fees, etc. So that particular hunt/filming session cost the production crew/host next to nothing when it would probably have been a $25K to $30K expenditure if they had to actually pay for everything related to that particular situation.

Kelly,

you may add that our provinces and territories are even paying them to come over here ...

i ve seen some crew films where even the tags were paid by the outfitters ....

all the best.

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
Kelly,

you may add that our provinces and territories are even paying them to come over here ...

i ve seen some crew films where even the tags were paid by the outfitters ....

all the best.

Phil

Well there ya go. Thanks Phil. We got -40 here this morning, hope you are a touch warmer.

Kelly

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
And what if the bailout keeps the weak from pulling down the strong?

I do not disagree, I generally do not support bailouts either, particularly those that occurred in the automotive industry. That is one reason I drive a Ford. But in my view AIG was different. If they had failed, a lot of "strong" companies would failed along with them.

It's about responsibility. Pay cash, stay out of debt, live happily ever after. Spending less than you bring in seems to be a distant memory to most people and businesses these days. I've been screwed by a client who filed bankruptcy, all the while he drove around town in his Hummer. Pay your dammmed bills.

AIG was different. It could have put the entire world into a financial tailspin including those who did nothing wrong.

With "Hero Worship" and an objective mind aside....whichever way you look at it, the whole situation "Stinks".

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
Kelly,

you may add that our provinces and territories are even paying them to come over here ...

i ve seen some crew films where even the tags were paid by the outfitters ....

all the best.

Phil

Well there ya go. Thanks Phil. We got -40 here this morning, hope you are a touch warmer.

Kelly

Man, I was wondering if you guys could show me where to sign up for these free Canadian hunts/tags for my tv show? Apparently I have really been missing the boat? In the past 2 months I have booked a 2014 Stone Sheep hunt in the Yukon, and a 2015 Polar Bear/Walrus combo hunt in Nunavut, with deposits already paid. For both hunts I am paying FULL RETAIL PRICE of the hunt, all license/tag fees, and all transportation costs too. The outfitter in the Yukon is even charging me transportation into/out of camp, and a daily rate for my cameraman (observer fee). In fact, I come with more incentive to bring me hunting than 99% of all tv shows - as I too am a hunting consultant who books a lot of hunts. So not only does the outfitter get the tv time, but if the hunt is good - I then am working to book hunts long after the show has been aired as well.

Now guys, don't get me wrong - I am fully aware of how we in the biz get perks. But generally speaking, these are hunts that often have more of a supply than a demand - and are often not the hunts most of us would refer to as "high demand". Black bear hunts, deer hunts, and of course moose/caribou on occasion too. But even then, "free" hunts are highly unlikely IMO. But when you start talking about sheep, grizzly/brown bear, big moose, Polar bear, etc - these hunts are NEVER free. Can a "deal" sometimes be brokered? Generally depends on how much the outfitter feels he needs additional advertising/sales help. Otherwise, most of them will tell me to pay like everyone else - or don't come.

I only mention this cause I often see here on AR and elsewhere the insinuations that a lot of us in the biz are getting "free" hunts. Boy, don't I wish!! And rest assured, not one time has a sponsor offered to pay any portion of my hunts, and I have never dreamed of asking them either - I already know what the answer would be. Just some FYI based on my personal experience in the matter.

well, there is a bubble burst…..

+1, it must be the groupies and money that attracts these guys to the booking agent business.

I wonder if CB's faith in Pennicott has changed at all.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
well, there is a bubble burst…..

Not at all,just because some may get the freebies doesn't mean others do so.

Very high profiles attract more interest of course and i`m not saying that AN hasnt either but Mr B has a very very high profile all over the world and there are those 'groupies' that will follow....

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
Kelly,

you may add that our provinces and territories are even paying them to come over here ...

i ve seen some crew films where even the tags were paid by the outfitters ....

all the best.

Phil

Well there ya go. Thanks Phil. We got -40 here this morning, hope you are a touch warmer.

Kelly

Man, I was wondering if you guys could show me where to sign up for these free Canadian hunts/tags for my tv show? Apparently I have really been missing the boat? In the past 2 months I have booked a 2014 Stone Sheep hunt in the Yukon, and a 2015 Polar Bear/Walrus combo hunt in Nunavut, with deposits already paid. For both hunts I am paying FULL RETAIL PRICE of the hunt, all license/tag fees, and all transportation costs too. The outfitter in the Yukon is even charging me transportation into/out of camp, and a daily rate for my cameraman (observer fee). In fact, I come with more incentive to bring me hunting than 99% of all tv shows - as I too am a hunting consultant who books a lot of hunts. So not only does the outfitter get the tv time, but if the hunt is good - I then am working to book hunts long after the show has been aired as well.

Now guys, don't get me wrong - I am fully aware of how we in the biz get perks. But generally speaking, these are hunts that often have more of a supply than a demand - and are often not the hunts most of us would refer to as "high demand". Black bear hunts, deer hunts, and of course moose/caribou on occasion too. But even then, "free" hunts are highly unlikely IMO. But when you start talking about sheep, grizzly/brown bear, big moose, Polar bear, etc - these hunts are NEVER free. Can a "deal" sometimes be brokered? Generally depends on how much the outfitter feels he needs additional advertising/sales help. Otherwise, most of them will tell me to pay like everyone else - or don't come.

I only mention this cause I often see here on AR and elsewhere the insinuations that a lot of us in the biz are getting "free" hunts. Boy, don't I wish!! And rest assured, not one time has a sponsor offered to pay any portion of my hunts, and I have never dreamed of asking them either - I already know what the answer would be. Just some FYI based on my personal experience in the matter.

Okay Aaron, if that is true than the argument CB needs to keep hunting to produce content holds no water since that model got him into trouble in the first place. And I seem to recall CB stated here or in print that he had been saving for a long time for the bear hunt for his wife - obviously at the expense of paying his creditors.

Either way, something does stink.

But Aaron, tell me, do you write off your hunts? If so, then you really are not paying 100 percent; it is somewhat less, depending on your tax rate.

Even then, the IRS doesn't allow certain write offs; they don't allow full deduction of meals, and they certainly didn't allow a guy who some years ago tried to expense his visits to brothels in Vegas. That guy claimed the deductions should be allowed due to the fact he wrote a book about prostitution in Las Vegas. The IRS denied it; I don't know exactly why, but I suspect if one gets a "benefit" from something, it isn't fully deductible. But then, I am not an accountant. We do have some that post here quite frequently; maybe they can chime in.

As for AIG, the whole thing stinks as well. Those who were counterparties to CDS's should have well known these things were not regulated.

"Embrace the Suck"


That's just what everyone is having to do here.

1) No one, not AIG, Craig Boddington, all the other dozens of bankrupt banks, me personally, or any of you, deserve the right to file for bankruptcy. But that is not the American Way. We have bankruptcy laws in place that provides for the alleviation of bad decisions on the part of the bankruptor, the alleviation of bad decisions on those who lended to the bankruptor, and so that the American economy continues to move in a positive direction with the least amount of harm to all involved.

2) As a reminder, no one, not Larry Shores, Mike Jines, the Australian outfitter that claims his rights have been violated, or the Australian Government itself, has filed any charges against Craig Boddington, Donna Boddington, or anyone else associated with the aforementioned hunt.

3) This is all about character assassination, as no evidence has been shown otherwise regarding CB's or his wife's participation in an illegal event, and those accusers continue to talk about unsubstantiated events.

4) If there were substantiated violatons of the law, then by this time, warrants would have been issued, and arrests would have been made. As CB stated in his early post on this thread, the Australian authorities have not found any wrongdoing, and have not made any legitimate charges.

5) This still boils down to competing outfitters in Australia in a pissing contest with one another, and Larry Shores continued effort to destroy Craig Boddington. I still say there's a quid pro quo there.

6) To Larry S., Mike J., Trax, and others who wish to destroy CB, then your efforts probably have been effective, if not in fact, but in the old adage, "Tell a lie a hundred times, and it becomes the truth". You have accomplished your mission. Congrats. Well done.

7) Thank God, I don't have to interact with you guys on a personal basis. That Would Suck.

"Enbrace the Suck"

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
AIG was different. It could have put the entire world into a financial tailspin including those who did nothing wrong.

Agreed, plus the guy in Cleveland recovering from his heart attack would have been punted out onto the street.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
"Embrace the Suck"


That's just what everyone is having to do here.

1) No one, not AIG, Craig Boddington, all the other dozens of bankrupt banks, me personally, or any of you, deserve the right to file for bankruptcy. But that is not the American Way. We have bankruptcy laws in place that provides for the alleviation of bad decisions on the part of the bankruptor, the alleviation of bad decisions on those who lended to the bankruptor, and so that the American economy continues to move in a positive direction with the least amount of harm to all involved.

2) As a reminder, no one, not Larry Shores, Mike Jines, the Australian outfitter that claims his rights have been violated, or the Australian Government itself, has filed any charges against Craig Boddington, Donna Boddington, or anyone else associated with the aforementioned hunt.

3) This is all about character assassination, as no evidence has been shown otherwise regarding CB's or his wife's participation in an illegal event, and those accusers continue to talk about unsubtantiated events.

4) If there were substantiated violatons of the law, then by this time, warrants would have been issued, and arrests would have been made. As CB stated in his early post on this thread, the Australian authorities have not found any wrongdoing, and have not made any legitimate charges.

5) This still boils down to competing outfitters in Australia in a pissing contest with one another, and Larry Shores continued effort to destroy Craig Boddington. I still say there's a quid pro quo there.

6) To Larry S., Mike J., Trax, and others who wish to destroy CB, then your efforts probably have been effective, if not in fact, but in the old adage, "Tell a lie a hundred times, and it becomes the truth". You have accomplished your mission. Congrats. Well done.

7) Thank God, I don't have to interact with you guys on a personal basis. That Would Suck.

"Enbrace the Suck"

Wow! Brother, you need to wake up.

First off NONE of this would have ever happened except for an ill advised effort to raise money for a website and attempting to sell dirty shirts. Last time I checked, that was CB's decision. Further, if CB had not started the illegal hunting thread , none of this information would not have come out . This action was, once again, I'll advised .

I didn't start the bankruptcy discussions in spite of the fact that I knew MONTHS before it ever hit AR. What part of those disclosures is not factual? Did be or did he not make a chapter 7 filing? He is most certainly entitled to make such a filing under our laws. Have you read the filing? I have. I see things which I question. This obviously doesn't mean that the filing are incorrect.

As far as the alleged illegal hunt , do you think the letter from the Australian authorities is not real? I will tell you one thing. I have been on a hell of a lot of international hunts all over the world . Granted, no where as many as CB. However, not once EVER have I received an inquiry from the authorities in the countries I hunted. CB has. If you will take the time to read my posts you will see that I wrote that I didn't believe CB knew this was an illegal hunt. Do you think the authorities sent the letter to Pennicott due to Karl being jealous? If you do, I think you are sadly mistaken.

I will agree with you on one thing. Some problem tell themselves something long enough that they believe it.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
"Embrace the Suck"


That's just what everyone is having to do here.

1) No one, not AIG, Craig Boddington, all the other dozens of bankrupt banks, me personally, or any of you, deserve the right to file for bankruptcy. But that is not the American Way. We have bankruptcy laws in place that provides for the alleviation of bad decisions on the part of the bankruptor, the alleviation of bad decisions on those who lended to the bankruptor, and so that the American economy continues to move in a positive direction with the least amount of harm to all involved.

2) As a reminder, no one, not Larry Shores, Mike Jines, the Australian outfitter that claims his rights have been violated, or the Australian Government itself, has filed any charges against Craig Boddington, Donna Boddington, or anyone else associated with the aforementioned hunt.

3) This is all about character assassination, as no evidence has been shown otherwise regarding CB's or his wife's participation in an illegal event, and those accusers continue to talk about unsubtantiated events.

4) If there were substantiated violatons of the law, then by this time, warrants would have been issued, and arrests would have been made. As CB stated in his early post on this thread, the Australian authorities have not found any wrongdoing, and have not made any legitimate charges.

5) This still boils down to competing outfitters in Australia in a pissing contest with one another, and Larry Shores continued effort to destroy Craig Boddington. I still say there's a quid pro quo there.

6) To Larry S., Mike J., Trax, and others who wish to destroy CB, then your efforts probably have been effective, if not in fact, but in the old adage, "Tell a lie a hundred times, and it becomes the truth". You have accomplished your mission. Congrats. Well done.

7) Thank God, I don't have to interact with you guys on a personal basis. That Would Suck.

"Enbrace the Suck"

Wow! Brother, you need to wake up.

First off NONE of this would have ever happened except for an ill advised effort to raise money for a website and attempting to sell dirty shirts. Last time I checked, that was CB's decision. Further, if CB had not started the illegal hunting thread , none of this information would not have come out . This action was, once again, I'll advised .

I didn't start the bankruptcy discussions in spite of the fact that I knew MONTHS before it ever hit AR. What part of those disclosures is not factual? Did be or did he not make a chapter 7 filing? He is most certainly entitled to make such a filing under our laws. Have you read the filing? I have. I see things which I question. This obviously doesn't mean that the filing are incorrect.

As far as the alleged illegal hunt , do you think the letter from the Australian authorities is not real? I will tell you one thing. I have been on a hell of a lot of international hunts all over the world . Granted, no where as many as CB. However, not once EVER have I received an inquiry from the authorities in the countries I hunted. CB has. If you will take the time to read my posts you will see that I wrote that I didn't believe CB knew this was an illegal hunt. Do you think the authorities sent the letter to Pennicott due to Karl being jealous? If you do, I think you are sadly mistaken.

I will agree with you on one thing. Some problem tell themselves something long enough that they believe it.

Wow, I'm awake, and I still don't see any credible reason for your involvement in this event. ????? I don't know you personally, I'm sure we would get along just fine, but your obsession with this needs to halt. Stop. It does you and your friends no good.

Do you think you're going to get the Congressional Medal of Honor for bashing your hunting brethren, even if there is something fishy.

Not in my mind. I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

Time for another Ativan MD.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Time for another Ativan MD.

Never had one, never done any kind of illegal or legal drugs for that matter unless prescribed. What's your diagnosis? Tell all.

Q:Not in my mind. I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.EQ:


Talk about shoot down the messenger...

Would you trust Mr P any more?

. . . hypertension.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Q:Not in my mind. I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.EQ:


Talk about shoot down the messenger...

Would you trust Mr P any more?

There is not a chance in hell I would trust Pennicott.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . hypertension.

OK, Funny, and honest. I'll grant you that. Makes me laugh, and I need more of that.

Mike

[/QUOTE I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.[/QUOTE]

I for one would trust Larry Shores with my life. Because you live in Fantasy Land and sleep in Lone Ranger jammies doesn't erase the FACTS which have been presented by Mr. Shores in a non-inflammatory manner. I guess I now know where part of Obama's 37% approval rating is coming from.

boys boys boys

shores is trying to save his reputation on this form

bottington can not lose his on this form even if we all vote no we are just not that much -- are we guys [and right at 1/2 of us resonate with the slop ass way he has run small segments of his life -- well some of us ]

what are we needing to do here to reach resolution if this kind of thing goes on every one in the lagoon turns to shit

right am I right

Gentlemen,

I assure you that all of us wish we had Mr. Shores reputation. It damn sure does't need saving.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
[/QUOTE I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

I for one would trust Larry Shores with my life. Because you live in Fantasy Land and sleep in Lone Ranger jammies doesn't erase the FACTS which have been presented by Mr. Shores in a non-inflammatory manner. I guess I now know where part of Obama's 37% approval rating is coming from.[/QUOTE]



WTF, we are talking about destroying another hunter's credibility on whimsical allegations. How dare you associate me with any politician. I'm a 2nd Amemdment advocate, a former Army Officer, and the VP of my local Chapter of SCI. I don't know you, but I assume you are being led around by the collar, or else you wouldn't attack me for things that are obviously personal vemdettas against CB. Before you start attacking me personally, you need to get your shit straight.


And at this point, unless I hear otherwise from the mouth itself, Larry Shores has lost all reputation with me and my close associates in the hunting world. Probably won't hurt his faithfull few, but I won't be sending business his way.

Now I know why Wes Hixson is such an admirable guy.

bb like your energy

what drive s it man

stew you towww this is heavy man

are we three enough to kill cb if we all join

you two s impecible reputations and my simple self

shit lets do it

If I truly attacked you, you would know it. If you are so blind to some facts, i erroneously assumed you were generally blind. My apologies. Mr. Shores is above reproach.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
bb like your energy

what drive s it man

Only a need to educate, illuminate and stand up for my friends.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
If I truly attacked you, you would know it. If you are so blind to some facts, i erroneously assumed you were generally blind. My apologies. Mr. Shores is above reproach.

Jeff

Above reproach, BullShit

How so my friend? Please only post facts of Mr. Shores failings.

This may take a while spotsfans so you might want to check out other threads.

Jeff

if we are to do this destruction you to need to drop the emotion
cold calculated effective what to
pm me

stewww no one can live and think with out defication

larry has done what to black mail you

never ever had a bad thought shit lets put him in


advice sci is shit drop out

Seriously. If I have not chosen wisely in my friend, please point out his failings. Until then, and actually after, I have his six.

Jeff

This is really humorous.