We definitely are making a show/s from this experience. I feel like it should not be swept under the rug to hide my mistake. If showing this will help one person in one situation - we have to show it. I know one thing for sure, it will make a lot of us think long and hard about reality.

A nice piece of PR.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
A nice piece of PR.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
A nice piece of PR.

Do you really think that was necessary???? What an ass.

Drinking again!

Tim,

I congratulate you on your courage of turning this into a show that we can all learn from. I look forward to watching it.

Mike

From the analogies I see on this thread (law enforcement, military, etc), I get the impression that people don't really understand the context of this accident. Solitary old buffalo tend to be nocturnal. They feed and water at night and in the early morning make their way to a safe area to lay up for the day. This "safe" area is usually in very thick stuff where it's impossible to get to him without him knowing.

Once in a while, unwounded buffalo charge. It is important to realize that in this situation, this incident began and finished within a period of several seconds. In this situation you can often hear more than you see. Trackers are running. Like as not, the PH or client can't even see anything until it's too late Both client and PH may be backpedaling or running sideways trying to get clear for a shot.

This whole thing is not happening on a cricket pitch. The terrain is rough and the vegetation such that you can't see 3 meters in front of you. In this situation there is no planning, just instinctive reactions.

I don't think anybody is condoning poor gun safety. The reality however is that you must hunt DG with one in the chamber. (If you wait until you're close to DG, you might as well bring a brass band along for all the noise you'll make chambering a round.)

Tripping while backpedaling, while trying to shoot a charging buffalo (or ele) is piss poor luck, but I really don't know what you'd do differently.

Two safaris ago while hunting buffalo we had to cross open ground to get to a tree which offered some cover. We crawled on hands and knees over ground covered with leaf litter. We made it to the tree undetected and lined upon indian-file behind it for cover. When we stood, the tracker grabbed both the PH and I, throwing us to the side. There was a small black mamba slithering away right where we had crawled. This snake had been unseen beneath the litter. If one of us would have smashed it as we crawled I doubt he'd have appreciated it. If one of us had been bitten, whose "fault" would it have been?

We all try to minimize risks in this type of hunting, but some is unavoidable. If this is not acceptable, take up another sport.

Tim,
I, for one, will be looking forward to the show. I think I can safely say that not a single one of us on the forum would trade places with you right now. Definitely a shocker. Keep your head up.

PH Stu is an incredibly lucky man.I feel for him that he got shot, but how tough/lucky he is to survive a bullet from a .458 lott and think of returning to the field. Bravo! I sincerely wish that he recovers fast and gains total functionality.

Best-
Locksley,R

r quick update from JNB. I went to see Stu today, and he is doing very well, he is tough as nails. He promised he would be back in camp in October, if not hunting, he will be tending bar! Obviously good spirits, and we have already planned to continue our lion hunt August 1 next year. He will have a tough 2-3 weeks with his shoulder, but the prognosis is very good, and we expect a great recovery. Still praying for him and appreciate any of you who do the same.

Tim,
Don't worry about us, we are still thinking of you both.

Good to hear Tim!

Brett

Isn't this something? The very man that got shot is still willing to hunt again with Tim. Seems he has no hard feelings.
Maybe since he was there, he knows it wasn't from careless gun handling, but simply an accident in the heat of a very dangerous moment.
By the way, I'd also hunt with Tim anytime he'd have me.
Cecil Leonard

quote:

The very man that got shot is still willing to hunt again with Tim. Seems he has no hard feelings.

I'm sure this has been a living hell, Tim
Best wishes to you and Stu both.

Glad to hear Stu is on the mend and in good spirits, best to you both!

JohnDL

John I am not sure we have met but I like your "non- nonsense, practical and to the point posts" on both Tim and Stu accident and the lion thread-it is as clear as day that the threads come from someone who has "been and done that" many times over vs someone who thinks he is an expert but has no practice experience- what a breath of fresh air!!! Cheers Buzz

Tim, thanks for the up-date on Stu.
Says it all, planning too hunt Lion in August next year TOGETHER..........
Stu keep the recovery going, Tim keep holding your head up....
Scott

So sorry to hear about this accident Tim. Wishing a speedy recovery to Stu and his family. Anyone that has been invloved with D.G.hunting knows what can happen in a split second when things go wrong. You MANNED up and are doing all you can do to move on for Stu and yourself.

Great news on Stu. Looking forward to next Augusts updates already.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Try as much as we like.
Train as much as we like.

Shit still happens.

Even to those trained by the military.

We do try to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others.

BUT, we are humans.
And we have human faults, which no training will ever cure 100%.

This ^^^^^sums up the situation in its entirety. If you are around guns and hunting long enough you will see and or will be involved in a accident of some kind some injurious and fortunately most are not. I have personally seen with my own two eyes a world renowned shooting and hunting expert who's writing most if not all here have seen, blow a hole through the side of his house with a .300 WM during a momentary lapse of situational awareness. Shit happens fortunately in the case in which I speak no one was hurt except the house his ego and our collective ear drums.

Pheasant hunting of all things, one time I flushed a rooster and at that same exact time that I was raising the gun I tripped and fell and despite my most heroic efforts pulled the front trigger when I hit the ground. Once again nobody was hurt but it was pure luck as I'd lost muzzle control as I hit the ground.

When I read Tim's account it immediately made me think of that incident. If somebody had been unlucky enough to be standing in the way I'd have shot him.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Now as far as llamma packer goes if I were him I'd stay the hell out of Zimbabwe. Talk about a guy who's worn out his international welcome!! In fact I'm not sure he should ever set foot on the African continent again. He is apt to encounter the worst and most deserved case of accidental shooting ever recorded in modern history.

Why all the threats?(I have seen a few in this thread) I don't understand all the rabid close minded responses by people who want to learn from a tragic situation? How many PH's get shot every year? Some of these replies seem closed minded. Of course you can train to avoid an ND, especially in your house. I have had one and boy did that wake me up to how lackadaisical my gunhandling was at that time.
As for hunting DG, sure never 100% safe but I am interested in tilting it more in mine and my companions if I can.

Blast away that is what I expect

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Try as much as we like.
Train as much as we like.

Shit still happens.

Even to those trained by the military.

We do try to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others.

BUT, we are humans.
And we have human faults, which no training will ever cure 100%.

This ^^^^^sums up the situation in its entirety. If you are around guns and hunting long enough you will see and or will be involved in a accident of some kind some injurious and fortunately most are not. I have personally seen with my own two eyes a world renowned shooting and hunting expert who's writing most if not all here have seen, blow a hole through the side of his house with a .300 WM during a momentary lapse of situational awareness. Shit happens fortunately in the case in which I speak no one was hurt except the house his ego and our collective ear drums.

Pheasant hunting of all things, one time I flushed a rooster and at that same exact time that I was raising the gun I tripped and fell and despite my most heroic efforts pulled the front trigger when I hit the ground. Once again nobody was hurt but it was pure luck as I'd lost muzzle control as I hit the ground.

When I read Tim's account it immediately made me think of that incident. If somebody had been unlucky enough to be standing in the way I'd have shot him.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Now as far as llamma packer goes if I were him I'd stay the hell out of Zimbabwe. Talk about a guy who's worn out his international welcome!! In fact I'm not sure he should ever set foot on the African continent again. He is apt to encounter the worst and most deserved case of accidental shooting ever recorded in modern history.

Just an observation about this whole account and commentary.

"Anyone that handles firearms falls into one of two categories- those that have had ND and those that hope they never do..."

As a military man with a bit of background, all I can say is that thank God the wound was as it was- no fatality, hopefully no serious permanent damage other than a great scar for Stu's story book in his older age.

Mr. Herald, you will live with the impact of the incident forever. Forgive yourself sooner than later, grow with the experience and mount up soon.

The rest of us- if you never have had an ND/AD (call it what you will) don't bother tossing criticism, rather, take a moment to learn from this account and understand that while "crap, indeed, does happen", it is our responsibility to take actions and establish controls to reduce the probability of it actually having negative consequences.

Best;

Tim, I'm happy to hear Stu is in good spirits and looking forward to hunting again. No matter how a person boasts his way of handling a situation such as this, no one, and I mean no one can say with certainty how they would react in a split second, catastrophic event. I do know one thing, no one can beat you up any more than you've been punching yourself. It was an accident, and all of us can learn something only because you chose to stand up and tell the world what happened. I don't believe anyone has ever shown such an event on television. As humbling as it may be, I commend you for being forthright and honest. We can all learn something with eyes, ears and minds open. God speed my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
r quick update from JNB. I went to see Stu today, and he is doing very well, he is tough as nails. He promised he would be back in camp in October, if not hunting, he will be tending bar! Obviously good spirits, and we have already planned to continue our lion hunt August 1 next year. He will have a tough 2-3 weeks with his shoulder, but the prognosis is very good, and we expect a great recovery. Still praying for him and appreciate any of you who do the same.

Tim good news about Stu, I had just met him in Atl of this year. I also agree a show is a good idea and I like a person that stands up and admits thier mistakes. I have not followed the whole thread because most of it is crap but how is Stu doing cash flow wise. This has to hurt losing all those days?

Tim,

My prayers to you and yours.

My prayers to Stu for a smooth recovery.

I don't post in this area much, but Mr. Herald is one of the few outdoor personalities that I bother to read or watch. A tough and sad situation for any man to deal with on his part or on Stu's part.

Best wishes,

Jeremy

After a career in Law Enforcement, and hunting since I was twelve, These type of incidents can happen to anyone of us.

The many variables that can and do occur in these type of incidents cannot always be prevented.

Briefly met Tim a few years ago at SCI in Reno, and have seen several of his shows during the past few years.

Have seen "Friendly fire" incidents several times in L.E.and the end results are hard for both sides of the incident to deal with.

Tim, good luck, even though it will take a while for the pain to subside.

Let's all be thankful that the injuries were not more severe and hope we all practice as much control and caution as possible when pursuing our favorite passion.

Stu - get well soon!

All the best to all involved.


Andi

My prayers and well wishes to Stu. News travels fast. I was in Martin Pieters camp in Omay North when it happened and my PH was getting text message updates on the situation. Sorry this happened to two good guys. Fortunately, it appears that this will end as well as possible. Thank God for that. Tim, I looked for you on the flight but knew you wouldn't be there. I hope you are holding up well.

My observation, good luck to STU and his family and a speedy thorough recovery.

I have been following this thread and if I am out of line than excuse me, I see almost as many sympathies for TIM as I do for STU. TIM was the culprit who didn't mind his muzzle.
For him to suggest that a "FUND" should be started and that TIM wants to televise this show to me is over the line, hopefully not pay for view.
TIM should face up to his liability, broad cast the pending lawsuits so you get an unedited picture of what happened and the liability that attaches to incidents like this, what next?, will he have Law Firms as sponsors on his TV programs.

raamw
Apparently you have not been doing a good job of following this thread or you're about as smart as Glen on Swamp People.
His name is TIM, not Ted.
I quite sure that there will also NOT be any lawsuits.

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:

I have been following this thread and if I am out of line than excuse me, I see almost as many sympathies for Ted as I do for STU. Ted was the culprit who didn't mind his muzzle.
For him to suggest that a "FUND" should be started and that Ted wants to televise this show to me is over the line, hopefully not pay for view.
TED should face up to his liability, broad cast the pending lawsuits so you get an unedited picture of what happened and the liability that attaches to incidents like this, what next?, will he have Law Firms as sponsors on his TV programs.

I think that has to be the most inappropriate post I've ever read on AR.

I corrected the name, sorry, but you missed my point.

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:
I corrected the name, sorry, but you missed my point.

No we did not.

Are you lawyer by any chance?

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:
you missed my point.

I don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by raamw:
My observation, good luck to STU and his family and a speedy thorough recovery.

I have been following this thread and if I am out of line than excuse me, I see almost as many sympathies for TIM as I do for STU. TIM was the culprit who didn't mind his muzzle.
For him to suggest that a "FUND" should be started and that TIM wants to televise this show to me is over the line, hopefully not pay for view.
TIM should face up to his liability, broad cast the pending lawsuits so you get an unedited picture of what happened and the liability that attaches to incidents like this, what next?, will he have Law Firms as sponsors on his TV programs.

You are out of line.

He's out of line, just as several others who have posted on this thread with all of their BS like they were right there to witness the accident. Those people have their head up their *** and their mind in Arkansas as my dearly departed Dad used to say! This last guy is so screwed up that he can't even get a name right, LOL!

raamw, you are a troll and need to go away. You are clueless and ignorant. Unless you have walked a mile in Tim's shoes and were there to see exactly how it went down you have no right to judge. I wish them both the best of luck. I pray for a speed recovery and I hope all of us learn something.

Tim has definitely done the right thing here and he and Stu deserve our support not outrageous attacks. The armchair "hunters" second guessing every incident or hunt decision on AR should climb down from their ivory towers and recognize that it was an accident and a situation that anyone that hunts DG can and will face (I had a very similar incident with an elephant charge where I tripped and had the safety off and my finger on the trigger but did not fire an accidental shot but easily could have). We all wish Stu a speedy recovery and wish it would not have happened but it did.

I doubt that anyone on AR that hunts has not experienced an accidental or close call discharge of their own or someone else's rifle, shotgun or handgun and learned from it. I guess it is just inevitable that the clowns will emerge to cast blame and declare that it wouldn't or couldn't happen to them.

I think we should all work to learn from these incidents and controlling the muzzle direction during a fall when you need to have the rifle ready to shoot has to be one of the most difficult firearm handling situations any of us will encounter.

I am not criticizing the accidental discharge, trust me it will happen to anyone, This fellow who is responsible for the accident in his original post is asking how he can raise money to cover his liability in stead of manning up and stating I am going to take financial responsibility for this incident since I was the one that pulled the trigger, in a later post he appears to capitalize by having it televised more then likely edited on his sponsored TV program and I am out of line what has Stu or his family has to say about it.

And another one goes onto the IGNORE list.
I can handle disagreement, but not the cheap shots.