I have an idea of how much to tip everyone involved in a PG safari. My question is specific to a PH who owns the reserve. As the owner of the property and host functioning also as the PH, what is the rule on the tip?

I don't tip the owner.

Me neither.

If the owner of an outfit is actually my PH I tip him just as I would any other PH.

If your PH does a great job what difference does it make if he is the owner or an employee? A tip is a symbol a job well done regardless of who does it. I have hunted many times with the safari operator or the owner of the hunting company. It never entered my head to not tip them.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by JA:
If the owner of an outfit is actually my PH I tip him just as I would any other PH.

+1, if he doing the same job as any other PH, why would he not be tipped like any other PH?

I have no objection to tipping an owner who serves as PH, but the logic would be that as the owner, he's already earned a profit on my hunt. The PH relies on tips as his compensation - he is paid by the owner but I would bet that the lion's share of his compensation is in the tip. He isn't getting any of the profit from the hunt itself.

Can anyone offer any insight into how PH's are compensated? Am I right that they - like many in the service industry - depend on tips for their livelihood? (As opposed to an owner, who depends on the profit of his business for his livelihood?)

quote:

Originally posted by JA:
If the owner of an outfit is actually my PH I tip him just as I would any other PH.

Exactly! Why would you not? He's guiding you, just like anyone else.

Mark Young - Agree as well!

I have hunted with a particular PH several times, both on his lands in SA and in other countries. I tip the same either way. The tip is a gesture of thanks for excellent personal service, not for rent.

If the owner of a fine restaurant waited on my table because his help left sick and did a good job he would get a tip.

I hunted with Johnny du Plooy and the last I heard he owns Muchinga. He got a tip.

I hunted with Andrew Baldry, the Epitome of the one man band. He got a tip.

In the case of fine dining your tip is likely split, the sommelier, the servers on the team, the bus boy all get part of the tip. In that case you would naturally tip the waiter/owner and he would then make the distribution. In this case we tip the house staff, the cook, the trackers, skinners, and driver separately, so I am not sure that the situation is similar.

I'm split on this one, fellas.
I like to tip if it is appreciated, needed, and earned. The owner is making all the money off my hunt anyway. A hired PH earns far less and my tip goes farther with him than with the owner. Most owners I have done business with just put the extra in their pocket and it is no big deal. My last PH I tipped 100$ per day and also the staff got a fair tip for a job well done. The look on his face said it all. I've never seen a look of appreciation from an owner as I did here.
So, I'd rather not tip the owner unless he does something special for me. Of course, that said, tipping has become expected rather than earned in today's Africa. My first PH, in 1994, actually told me the first day how much he expected as a tip. I guess I've been a bit sour ever since.
But, it's just me and my 2 cents.
Cheers friends,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
I have no objection to tipping an owner who serves as PH, but the logic would be that as the owner, he's already earned a profit on my hunt. The PH relies on tips as his compensation - he is paid by the owner but I would bet that the lion's share of his compensation is in the tip. He isn't getting any of the profit from the hunt itself.

Can anyone offer any insight into how PH's are compensated? Am I right that they - like many in the service industry - depend on tips for their livelihood? (As opposed to an owner, who depends on the profit of his business for his livelihood?)

I have been told by several PHs they are paid $200 a day for big game and $250 per day if they have their own vehicle. With this they get gas/diesel and food. Less for plains game, of course. This is in Zim.

You guys with more experience than I, correct me if I am in error.

A PH spends about the same time giving you a good hunt (or a bad one) with on a plains game hunt or a lion hunt or an elephant hunt. Tippping varies greatly on those hunts, of course.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
I have no objection to tipping an owner who serves as PH, but the logic would be that as the owner, he's already earned a profit on my hunt. The PH relies on tips as his compensation - he is paid by the owner but I would bet that the lion's share of his compensation is in the tip. He isn't getting any of the profit from the hunt itself.

Can anyone offer any insight into how PH's are compensated? Am I right that they - like many in the service industry - depend on tips for their livelihood? (As opposed to an owner, who depends on the profit of his business for his livelihood?)

Here is where I agree with Cal.

As mentioned above, why would the PH rely on the tip as his compensation?
Why isn't he paid enough for his job in the first place?

Is it going to be as bad as in the hotel industry, where a "service charge" is added, regardless of how good or bad the service is?

I have been to some 5 star hotels, and have refused to pay the 15% service charge they added to the bill for a "service" that was terrible.

This has never happened to me on safari, and paying a tip is never a problem.

May be the safari industry should take a leaf out of the banker's book.

And pay themselves a "bonus" that is several times their salary, rather it being a small percentage of it.

On my 2012 Australia hunt the owner of the company stated, both in person and in the literature, that tipping was mandatory and expected "to keep the hired help returning each year." My thought was why not pay the help (staff and PH) a decent wage to begin with? The owner made about 35,000$ (five of us in camp) in five days. Perhaps he should share it with his hired help.
Cal

I think it is wrong to assume that owner/operators are making plenty of money in this industry, especially over the last 5-6 years. Or that owner/PH's dont greatly appreciate client tips.

While I do find the whole topic of tips somewhat uncomfortable - I am sure happy and grateful to get them when offered. I give all mine to my wife, she is the one who puts-up with me being away from home for 6-7 months of the year - the time away I must take, to make this safari hunting thing happen.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
On my 2012 Australia hunt the owner of the company stated, both in person and in the literature, that tipping was mandatory and expected "to keep the hired help returning each year." My thought was why not pay the help (staff and PH) a decent wage to begin with? The owner made about 35,000$ (five of us in camp) in five days. Perhaps he should share it with his hired help.
Cal

call me old fashioned but the term "tipping" and "mandatory" do NOT belong in the same sentence. sort of like "donation" and "mandatory"..

...speaking of SCI

A tip/gratuity is merely a gesture to Thank Someone for a good job. If you do not believe in leaving a tip, DON'T. Really simple concept.

As a guide, I am going to do the exact same job for EVERY client that hunts with me. All a tip does for me is show me that I did a good job for my clients and they appreciated it.

If you do not want to leave a tip or believe in tipping, DON'T.

That is as simple as it gets folks.

Regardless of whether you hunt with a PH that is an owner or an employee, I think something to bear in mind is for those that hunt with the same PH on multiple occasions, a tip serves a dual purpose. One it is way to acknowledge and thank someone for their efforts and services on a hunt just completed. In addition though a tip says for future hunts, if you work as hard on the next hunt you stand a good chance of receiving similar acknowledgement. Someone used a restaurant analogy earlier. Go to a restaurant and do not leave a tip. Return to that same restaurant and get the same waiter and I would not expect the same level of service as the customer that left a nice trip on their first visit. I agree that tips are discretionary and a way to acknowledge exceptional service, my point is simply that whether you tip and what you tip not only impacts someone's current perception of you, it impacts their prospective perception of you and how they are likely to treat you.

I hate this subject.

I am going to tip my PH on:

1) How much I think he deserves
2) How much I like him
3) How much I can afford to give him

I am not a wealthy guy. It is hard enough putting the money together for the hunt itself.

It is not my problem if the owner/outfitter doesn't pay his PH a fair days wage.

I am not going to cut my hunt short or kill a few less animals so that I can give the PH a huge tip. From trip to trip, I have no idea on when I will be able to go again so I have to treat every hunt as if might be my last one...the PH's tip is secondary to this.

With that said, I do tip very well. I always go home with nothing in my pocket and I make my PH understand from the get go that I am not a rich guy and that I am going to tip him as much as I can.

If I am ever given a demand by a PH I will tell him up front that I am giving him what he deserves and if we get along good then he is getting as much as I can afford to give him. If that's not good/honest enough then walk now.

In short, I am a working man just like him and I will do the best I can.

It has even got to where hunters tip the game scout, a government warden sent to keep an eye on us and get in the way. the last one we had sat on the back of the truck and texted his friends all day. He was still on the tip list, what shit that is.

I'm weighing in here - perhaps where I should fear to tread, but IMO a tip is a reward for doing a great job, whether the PH is the owner of the land or not as long as he is the PH.

Things to look for -

1) is he enthusiastic, does he want the best, is he prepared to go the extra mile, does he entertain you, does he pretend to laugh at your stories, is he tolerant of your bad shots, IS HE A GOOD HUNTING COMPANION, if the vehicle breaks down, does he stay up till 2 am fixing it to go out at dawn the next day, or does he not really give a rat's and just drives around talking to his mates on his cellphone in a language you don't understand?

2) at the end do you feel that you have had the best safari it is possible to have had, or do you feel that you were just given barely adequate service? Were you treated fairly, or do you feel cheated?

If the answers to the above questions are positive, yep, he deserves a tip, otherwise not - anyway it should be up to YOU, the client.

As for demanding tips, because you want to ensure the PH returns next year - well pay him yourself (the outfitter/landowner, that is). His labour relations are nothing to do with me.

Just talking about the PH here and it's MO.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
On my 2012 Australia hunt the owner of the company stated, both in person and in the literature, that tipping was mandatory and expected "to keep the hired help returning each year." My thought was why not pay the help (staff and PH) a decent wage to begin with? The owner made about 35,000$ (five of us in camp) in five days. Perhaps he should share it with his hired help.
Cal

From past heated discussions on the subject of tipping, we were led to believe that "tipping Down Under" was frowned upon and discouraged.
Some posters even went to the extent of saying it was considered an insult in that part of the world

quote:

Originally posted by joester:
...speaking of SCI

quote:

Originally posted by dande_jack:
It has even got to where hunters tip the game scout, a government warden sent to keep an eye on us and get in the way. the last one we had sat on the back of the truck and texted his friends all day. He was still on the tip list, what shit that is.

D/J:

Would you have preferred he lived up to his name and "got in the way" and to tip him at the end or hope you get another one like him?

quote:

I'm weighing in here - perhaps where I should fear to tread, but IMO a tip is a reward for doing a great job, whether the PH is the owner of the land or not as long as he is the PH.

I would not call it a reward as such but more of a token of appreciation for the services rendered; not mandatory nor quantifiable, a tip does not have to be in monetary form either.

A tip to the PH is part of the safari tradition and should be followed by a hearty handshake and a slap on the back. A big grin is often appreciated. The amount is incidental but as a bonus it is very much appreciated.

Never heard of a PH proffering the amount he should receive and such buggers should be paid in left over candy.

The odd double thrown in also goes down well.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A tip to the PH is part of the safari tradition and should be followed by a hearty handshake and a slap on the back. A big grin is often appreciated. The amount is incidental but as a bonus it is very much appreciated.

Never heard of a PH proffering the amount he should receive and such buggers should be paid in left over candy.

The odd double thrown in also goes down well.

And fishing gear.

A wasps nest of a subject! My last 'big hunt' on the last day went along the following lines -

PH, appi PH, 2 x trackers, scout, skinner, camp manager, cook, tent boy, laundry girl and a scout somewhere in the shadows. I was happy to give them all something as I had a better than expected time in all ways.

When I got home my bank manager gave me a tip ..... "please fund your account!"

Hunting - as addictive as cocaine and twice as expensive!

Very touchy subject, I hunted tanzania last March for Buffalo and Masaai species, on arriving in camp I find out that we have been given a second Ph and tracker to make our lives easier, after a few days I realised that only reason he was there was because his safari was cancelled and he was there for the tip on our safari, all he did was sit in the vehicle and offer some conversation,

I got ahold of the outfitter and made sure he knew that I was not interested in him being on our hunt, that night I was asked to give him a tip for the days he spent with us, as well as his tracker who also only sat next to the driver waiting for the safari to end,

Next surprise was at the end of the Safari when the game scout demanded a $1000 tip, outfitter warned me that if I did not do this I might not see my trophies again,

I have always believed that a tip of $100 to $120 per day for the full staff component excluding the Ph is more than generous for any safari,

Tipping should be abolished. Why should you tip if they do a good job? Shouldn't they always do a good job?

What tipping tends to do is foster the attitude that if there is no tip, then not do a good job. With everyone down to the cook and bottle washer getting tips, you finally end up with the police officer messing things up so he/she can get a tip for straightening things out. You also end up with everyone thinking they should get a tip even if they do a half-assed job.

By the way, if I ever saw any mention of tips being required or even suggested amounts of tips in the literature or web site of any hunt purveyor, they would be off my list of ones to use.

It sometimes seems like posters want to brag about how big they tip. Most outfitters don't like big tippers as the help then expects the same from every hunter. Last fall I hunted in Ethiopia with Nassos and I gave him tip money for the STAFF, he counted the money and said too much and I said that is OK he said no and said he would credit my account for dipping and packing for the excess which he did. It was not a biG tip. I have heard people talking of 10% of the hunt cost as a tip guideline does that include trophy fees government fees what is the base.

quote:

Originally posted by jkhunter:
Very touchy subject, I hunted tanzania last March for Buffalo and Masaai species, on arriving in camp I find out that we have been given a second Ph and tracker to make our lives easier, after a few days I realised that only reason he was there was because his safari was cancelled and he was there for the tip on our safari, all he did was sit in the vehicle and offer some conversation,

I got ahold of the outfitter and made sure he knew that I was not interested in him being on our hunt, that night I was asked to give him a tip for the days he spent with us, as well as his tracker who also only sat next to the driver waiting for the safari to end,

Next surprise was at the end of the Safari when the game scout demanded a $1000 tip, outfitter warned me that if I did not do this I might not see my trophies again,

I have always believed that a tip of $100 to $120 per day for the full staff component excluding the Ph is more than generous for any safari,

Sounds like you were paying the scout to cover the operators wrong doings?

If I can't afford to tip, I can't afford to hunt. It's an expense I budget for...

On my hunt a second PH was in camp as he was then out of work (Zambian PH). He took photos and videos (all shared with me) and helped out my PH. When I was talking tips with my PH, he mentioned there was no need to tip the second PH, but I did so anyway. The second PH made a polite turn down of his tip, but relented when offered a second time. I never felt any pressure.

Gentlemen,
Obviously this new guy hit on a really touchy subject. A lot of interesting points to think about. I agree it is difficult for any outfitter to pay his entire staff as well as he might like and that tips serve a dual purpose to incent the staff to do well and to supplement a low wage. Still the PH owner of a large property is quite a few rungs above me on the social ladder. If I tip I don't want to insult, if I don't, I hope that as a gentlemen he excepts my sincere thanks for his excellent performance. Simply I don't want to screw this up one way or the other. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Several outfitters that I hunt with state right time of booking that there will be 10 percent added to total for TIP. I agree to this and if I feel that some of the help does a good job I will give them an added amount but I never increase the tip to the owner/ph .

[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you were paying the scout to cover the operators wrong doings?[/QUOTE]



Andrew I would hate to think that as all permits were in order and animals taken were on quota, I think it has become a easy way for this Outfitter to make sure he has the scout on his side if he did something in the future,

I did not like doing it but I felt heavy armed into it, I was in a situation when hunting Polar Bear where I refused to tip a person who was truly a waste of time on the safari, when I left he told me I will never see my bear again,

and 6 months later a skin arrived in SA of a small female bear half the size of the one we hunted

when the owner outfitter was my PH in RSA, he did a fantastic job and I tipped him well as I would tip any PH. I had an owner in Namibia who was not our PH demand all the tips for the trip including the PHs go to him to distribute. I didn't like that at all. I gave him tips for house staff and skinners etc, but I tipped the PHs and trackers individually. As stated above the tip should go with a smile, thanks you and handshake. I am convicned with this particular outfitter that some of the tip money I would have given him for the PHs would have stayed in his pocket

quote:

I had an owner in Namibia who was not our PH demand all the tips for the trip including the PHs go to him to distribute. I didn't like that at all. I gave him tips for house staff and skinners etc, but I tipped the PHs and trackers individually.

I had that same experience in Namibia and handled it the same way.

I also tip the game ranger but in the two hunts I've been one where one was present, neither really added much to the hunt - both walked with us at all times and participated to a modest degree in tracking, but neither really did much. I tipped one the same as the other trackers and the other slightly less.

The Appy PH situation was new to me in Zimbabwe last year. I did tip the Appy but I reduced the PH's tip (not by an equivalent amount) to help cover it.

Like Badger Matt said, I consider it part of the expense of the hunt and I budget for it. But when they surprise you with an extra PH - as they did on my Zimbabwe trip this year - you have to cover a tip to him as well as everyone you're already tipping.

I also had a cameraman who was awesome - particularly at spotting duikers and grysbok and spotting game in general. He spotted more game than anyone else in our party. I tipped him much better than I had budgeted for.