quote:

Originally posted by Limpopo Big Game Safaris:
Jeff....I can not speak for all, its not my place to do so. I have had a fair share of hidings in my life and where I was wrong I apologized and we all moved on.
This has been asked before and I will ask it again. Why can't Andrew admit he made mistake and apologize. I promis you if that happens this thread will end immediately.

Bossie Mostert
Limpopo Big Game Safaris

No one is Andrew's keeper on ar - if he thinks he has done something wrong he will apologize - other wise not much else. I don't see his apologizing or not reducing or changing my view on him. I will hunt with him one day. Maybe on next ar group - i have too much going on this year.

I am just surprised so many south african phs are offended and demanding apologies. Maybe its the nature of buffalo and lion hunting in south africa that causes all this agitation.

I for one see nothing wrong if most buffalos in south africa had a ear tag once. I have killed an elk on a corporate outing with a tag - was 400 plus. I just called it a shoot when you are targeting 100 plus all male elk on 1500 high fenced acres. I have shot more ducks released at pawling mountain shoot in a afternoon than larry shores does in a trip to Argentina. I suck with a shotgun - but they kept releasing birds and after the group missed them they flew back to where they were released from. I am betting most south african lions are the same way - back searching for a food truck.

No one needs to apologize for hunting in south africa on canned lion shoots or captive (once with ear tag) buffalo hunts. But neither do we need to all have to agree these hunts meet the standards elsewhere where game is not chattle (note chattle not cattle). I would hate if the lowest common denominator or a single denominator set the standard for hunting for everyone.

At least on ar the consensus group standard is far closer to andrew than africahunting.com crowd. Why we don't see too many canned lion hunt reports or ads on ar. People might not like andrew calling out people but i dont think the majority on ar question what he called them out about. But ar is not the last word in hunting - just the view of many experienced hunters who have a set of standards. No one of the ar crowd pays for anyone going or not going to south africa to hunt its dangerous game.

But this issue of supporting any and all hunting and all hunting is a scared act is a joke to me. Why should i have to support and hold the act to be the same as another act when someone shooting animals in a pen or anything else even if it is legal.

I would like to hunt with professionals who have standards higher than the legal minimum requirements.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

The main negative I see for Andrew was why was he hanging out at africahunting.com


Mike

Mike,

Andrew will have to answer that but I do know is first post was on the 2012 Lion Hunt Report I put on AH. That was also my first post.

I put that hunt report up in 2012 to help advertise Royal Kafue off of AR because i believed and still believe in what Andrew has done for the wildlife and community of Kiandu on his unfenced domain.

As to why he stayed, he can answer.

I returned on occasion to AH because I was approached by some posters there that also post on AR to please share my hunt reports. I did. I will no longer.

It may seem petty but when the simple letters "AR" were edited out of my report I realized I no longer wished to share them there.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

At least on AR you know Saeed is not in it to make a buck or sell a dvd. AR to him is like a hunt - a recreational activity.


Mike

Joyce and I have broken bread with Saeed and I can say this. He's a surprisingly normal guy. No different than any of our other friends.

I say this because like others who have made comments ranging from "member of the royal family" to "rag head" and "camel jockey" concerning him, i had no idea what to expect.

Saeed's just a normal guy that happens to have resources beyond the average who is generous in sharing his interests.

I'll say this again, the success of our hunts have been do to due diligence and AR played the majority role in that. There's lots of chaff with the wheat on here but that wheat is gold.

Cheers
Jim

I go to AH once in awhile just to see whats up..but when I need info this is the only place to get the real deal. Sift through the name calling and pissing matches and this is simply the best one stop shop for all I need to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Limpopo Big Game Safaris:
And Jeff if you refer to me as one of the SA PH,s and sycophants.
I will be the first to set an example.

To all of you who feels I have offended you and thrown insults your way.
I apologized to you.

Bossie Mostert
Limpopo Big Game Safaris
.

Accepted Mr. Mostert. It wasn't your place to tell me what should be filmed on one of my hunts whether you approved or not.

Now Quid Pro Quo ----- I looked back at your history of threads on AR. The majority are hunt offers on the Offered & Discounted hunt section of AR. You are a RSA PH/Outfitter and your disclosure of captive bred lions, property size, and fence height and presence is exemplary. I applaud you as a model for full RSA disclosure Sir.

Cheers
JIm

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

No one is Andrew's keeper on ar - if he thinks he has done something wrong he will apologize - other wise not much else. I don't see his apologizing or not reducing or changing my view on him. I will hunt with him one day. Maybe on next ar group - i have too much going on this year.

I am just surprised so many south african phs are offended and demanding apologies. Maybe its the nature of buffalo and lion hunting in south africa that causes all this agitation.

I for one see nothing wrong if most buffalos in south africa had a ear tag once. I have killed an elk on a corporate outing with a tag - was 400 plus. I just called it a shoot when you are targeting 100 plus all male elk on 1500 high fenced acres. I have shot more ducks released at pawling mountain shoot in a afternoon than larry shores does in a trip to Argentina. I suck with a shotgun - but they kept releasing birds and after the group missed them they flew back to where they were released from. I am betting most south african lions are the same way - back searching for a food truck.

No one needs to apologize for hunting in south africa on canned lion shoots or captive (once with ear tag) buffalo hunts. But neither do we need to all have to agree these hunts meet the standards elsewhere where game is not chattle (note chattle not cattle). I would hate if the lowest common denominator or a single denominator set the standard for hunting for everyone.

At least on ar the consensus group standard is far closer to andrew than africahunting.com crowd. Why we don't see too many canned lion hunt reports or ads on ar. People might not like andrew calling out people but i dont think the majority on ar question what he called them out about. But ar is not the last word in hunting - just the view of many experienced hunters who have a set of standards. No one of the ar crowd pays for anyone going or not going to south africa to hunt its dangerous game.

But this issue of supporting any and all hunting and all hunting is a scared act is a joke to me. Why should i have to support and hold the act to be the same as another act when someone shooting animals in a pen or anything else even if it is legal.

I would like to hunt with professionals who have standards higher than the legal minimum requirements.

Mike

Did you put that ear-tagged elk from the deer farm on your wall?

Results (30 votes counted so far):

Who should be the final authority on what constitutes a "REAL" hunt and who should be able to classify someone as a "REAL" hunter or not.


3 (10%) Should the labels of Hunting/Hunter be decided by the hunting community in general.


27 (90%) Should the labels of Hunting/Hunter be left up to the Individual.

How about the concept of letting the majority decide. NO ONE is FORCED to do something they do not want to do when it comes to hunting.

Can anyone prove that someone has been forced to partake in a method or practice that they did not wish to?

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

At least on AR you know Saeed is not in it to make a buck or sell a dvd. AR to him is like a hunt - a recreational activity.


Mike

Joyce and I have broken bread with Saeed and I can say this. He's a surprisingly normal guy. No different than any of our other friends.

I say this because like others who have made comments ranging from "member of the royal family" to "rag head" and "camel jockey" concerning him, i had no idea what to expect.

Saeed's just a normal guy that happens to have resources beyond the average who is generous in sharing his interests.

I'll say this again, the success of our hunts have been do to due diligence and AR played the majority role in that. There's lots of chaff with the wheat on here but that wheat is gold.

Cheers
Jim

Amen to being a normal guy.
if the raghead comments had flown, I'd likely be put down for ridiculing those calling him a raghead, but I'd likely still do it.
It's the right thing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

I see no need to say anything further on this topic if you preach on arrogance, pride and injustice every Sunday.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

Nothing to do with the position. It was the comment that generated my response . There is no attempt to humiliate you especially for being a preacher.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Did you put that ear-tagged elk from the deer farm on your wall?

No - I left it at a taxidermist somewhere in Nebraska. I lived in NYC then - the elk with a full shoulder mount would have filled my apartment. No one I know wanted back then wanted to put it in their house. Non hunters normally don't like taxidermy.

I wish I had the antlers - would make a great european.

Mike

A Standard. Having the money to rent the best PH in the best habitat.


I don't think anyone who has to rent the situation has a right to criticize.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

I see no need to say anything further on this topic if you preach on arrogance, pride and injustice every Sunday.

See, once again reading comprehension skills are a problem for some people here.

I said "every Sunday that I have to preach on...." meaning that "some" Sundays I preach on the subject, but I didn't say that "all Sundays" I preach on that subject.

Maybe I should get you guys to teach me how to preach a "proper" sermon on pride, arrogance, and abusing people.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

Nothing to do with the position. It was the comment that generated my response . There is no attempt to humiliate you especially for being a preacher.

If you feel I am a "self-professed" preacher, then that's OK by me. I have nothing to prove and nothing to be ashamed of.
I saw arrogance and childish behavior. Even though I don't know the guy he acted childishly toward, I was offended (not as a preacher), but as a gentleman and hunter.

I personally feel that safari hunting ought to be a gentleman's endeavor and have always thought that it was. I don't know, maybe I have been wrong. From what I've read on here, it's not about being a gentleman hunter, but merely having 2 testicles and shooting one's mouth off.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

Nothing to do with the position. It was the comment that generated my response . There is no attempt to humiliate you especially for being a preacher.

If you feel I am a "self-professed" preacher, then that's OK by me. I have nothing to prove and nothing to be ashamed of.
I saw arrogance and childish behavior. Even though I don't know the guy he acted childishly toward, I was offended (not as a preacher), but as a gentleman and hunter.

I personally feel that safari hunting ought to be a gentleman's endeavor and have always thought that it was. I don't know, maybe I have been wrong. From what I've read on here, it's not about being a gentleman hunter, but merely having 2 testicles and shooting one's mouth off.

Not really

Were you as offended by bushwhack taking $2400 from man dying of terminal cancer?

Are you as offended by a scumbag like bushwack flogging hunts on africahunter.com - have you written to jerome and asked him why bushwhack is still selling hunts on africahunter.com

Have you posted anything negative on bushwhack on africahunter.com ?

Did you buy andrew's lion print to help stu ?

Suddenly andrew's actions offended the whole south african hunting fraternity. Must be a house of cards to be so easily offended.

You have to admit there is some truth to saeed's statement of farm boys moonlighting as phs. A very insecure bunch in south africa and on africahunting.com.

If the hunts are so kosher why worry about what a nobody like andrew who has no booth at dsc or sci and sells all his hunts on ar and word of mouth has to say.

If you are really so bothered by ungentlemanly behavior call out bushwhack on africahunting.com or the south african phs poaching rhinos or my favorite anyone selling illegal hunts in the save.

Lets see if africahunting.com offers you the same freedom of internet expression saeed and don do.


Mike

Everything we do on AR is for promotion hunting and shooting.

There is no hidden agenda.

PHs, outfitters have their own forum to sell their hunts.

They do not pay a single penny to AR.

They live by their reputation - which is how it should be.

Many reputable outfitters and PHs from South Africa are getting repeat customers from AR, Why?

Because they have been honest and provided an honest and enjoyable hunts for AR members.

Many reputable and honest outfitters and PHs from other countries in Africa, and elsewhere, have also had many repeat customers from AR.

This is the best advertising one can expect.

Anyone is free to state his opinion - no matter who he is. As all are treated equally.

Sadly, AR IS unique.

It is the ONLY site on the Internet that is devoted to hunting and shooting which is totally free from adverts - reminds me of all those so called SPONSORS or DONATORS in politics - they all want their payback. Regardless of badly that affects the clients.

AR is the ONLY site on the Internet where honesty is rewarded by more business - we do not accept payments from crooks in the business to sell their services. Neither do AR members, as they do have a free platform to voice their grievances if they have any.

Nothing gets deleted.

How many bad apples in this business that have been exposed here on AR?

Ultimately, this has been a very good thread.

It has brought to the open the incredible number of utter crooks people have to deal with when trying to hunt in South Africa.

They are like the bloody mafia - supported by a horrible network of so called booking agents - who are just as crooked as those they represent.

They assume that all of us hunters are so stupid that they can actually make us believe all the bullshit they believe themselves.

Going back to the original post that Andrew made.

He raised a question regarding a weekend shoot wrapped by the person who sold it as buffalo hunt.

He was absolutely right. That shoot was posted as a hunt, which it most certainly was not.

May be those South Africans who are trying to educate us on what is a hunt and what is not actually believe it was.

In that case, Andrew was right to put the title as A STANDARD on his thread.

Just as AR sets STANDARD - and sadly, so far none has been able to get anyway near it.

If you want honest opinions, AR is the only place to get it.

Yup. You are no doubt right.

While the bickering can get annoying, there are true opinions being offered. Bad guys had best beware peddling their BS on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

Nothing to do with the position. It was the comment that generated my response . There is no attempt to humiliate you especially for being a preacher.

If you feel I am a "self-professed" preacher, then that's OK by me. I have nothing to prove and nothing to be ashamed of.
I saw arrogance and childish behavior. Even though I don't know the guy he acted childishly toward, I was offended (not as a preacher), but as a gentleman and hunter.

I personally feel that safari hunting ought to be a gentleman's endeavor and have always thought that it was. I don't know, maybe I have been wrong. From what I've read on here, it's not about being a gentleman hunter, but merely having 2 testicles and shooting one's mouth off.

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
From a self professed preacher no less.

Well thank GOD I am not the only one who was sitting here and thinking something is wrong with this picture. Pretty heavy handed in assessing others, but I guess that should't be a big surprise.

Notice I pointed out these things for someone trashing someone else unfairly.
I wasn't defending myself. No need to.

If you want to try now to humiliate me for my ministry position, have at it. I'm an easy target. Have all the fun you want.

My feeling is that you guys can dish it out, but don't seem to take it well and some are too prideful to admit mistakes either.

If I'm wrong for addressing rude behavior, then I suppose I am just wrong every Sunday that I have to preach on arrogance and pride and injustice.

Nothing to do with the position. It was the comment that generated my response . There is no attempt to humiliate you especially for being a preacher.

If you feel I am a "self-professed" preacher, then that's OK by me. I have nothing to prove and nothing to be ashamed of.
I saw arrogance and childish behavior. Even though I don't know the guy he acted childishly toward, I was offended (not as a preacher), but as a gentleman and hunter.

I personally feel that safari hunting ought to be a gentleman's endeavor and have always thought that it was. I don't know, maybe I have been wrong. From what I've read on here, it's not about being a gentleman hunter, but merely having 2 testicles and shooting one's mouth off.

Not really

Were you as offended by bushwhack taking $2400 from man dying of terminal cancer?

Are you as offended by a scumbag like bushwack flogging hunts on africahunter.com - have you written to jerome and asked him why bushwhack is still selling hunts on africahunter.com

Have you posted anything negative on bushwhack on africahunter.com ?

Did you buy andrew's lion print to help stu ?

Suddenly andrew's actions offended the whole south african hunting fraternity. Must be a house of cards to be so easily offended.

You have to admit there is some truth to saeed's statement of farm boys moonlighting as phs. A very insecure bunch in south africa and on africahunting.com.

If the hunts are so kosher why worry about what a nobody like andrew who has no booth at dsc or sci and sells all his hunts on ar and word of mouth has to say.

If you are really so bothered by ungentlemanly behavior call out bushwhack on africahunting.com or the south african phs poaching rhinos or my favorite anyone selling illegal hunts in the save.

Lets see if africahunting.com offers you the same freedom of internet expression saeed and don do.


Mike

I believe if you go back up in this thread you will see where I posted that I did not disagree with the treatment of Bushwack.
Although he may have been contractually correct, it is sad to hear that someone would hold to the letter of a contract in that situation.
Still, I understand that many USA hunting guides have and enforce the same contracts.
But, if I were a PH or guide, I would be a dispenser of grace in a situation such as that.
Also, I don't believe I was around when that debate was going on. I saw the thread much later, I believe.
As to writing Jerome about it, I believe people are already aware.
I think that BW actually, correct me if I'm wrong, did nothing legally wrong and actually followed the contract in place.
The fact that I would show grace if I were him is immaterial. But, because he did not show grace, I would not choose to hunt with him.

No, I did not buy Andrew's lion print. If you will look at my post count, you will see that I have only visited here rather sparingly over the past couple of years. I don't remember ever seeing his thread.
But, if you're going to question my charitable giving, will you match the % of your salary from 1995 thru 2010 in Christian missions endeavors that I did during the same time frame?
There is an endless list of good causes to charitably give to.
Are you going to condemn me for not giving to Stu when I've given greatly to the Gospel and the call of Christ?
The reason I have barely entered into the financial ability to go on my 2 comparatively inexpensive hunting trips to Africa was because God lead me out of missions and into the pastorate.
I am now a bi-vo pastor and almost full-time pharmacist. When I quit living off 60% of my potential pharmacist income due to taking off work to lead mission teams and also financing the trips, I gradually saved enough to go hunting and fulfill some life-long desires.

** I relate to the Bushwach situation because after getting financially able, I still had 1 kid in college, with 1 having just graduated. And, In a 4-5 year stretch, I had 4 surgeries and my wife had 2. I might have lost my deposit with BW when my wife had to back out of our first trip. (I took my son instead). She and I went last year. Recently, she's been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. We had to cancel a mission trip and a vacation this summer. My health is fine now, but my wife's ability to go anywhere will always be questionable. So I'll have to be careful who I book with. Bushwack? no thanks. Going forward, I imagine I will book with folks who show mercy and grace regardless of what is legal in a contract.

BTW, I don't see Bushwack's offers coming up on AH anymore. Maybe it's just that I'm not paying attention. I don't know.

And, again, As you see I'm no African PH. The reason I am offended is the fact that He was factually wrong and mean-spirited and instead of making a simple apology chose to make an apology for being superior. At least one of the "reading impaired" persons who slammed Adrian did apologize. I respect him for that. A real man does that.

I'll tell you the truth, One day I want to go on a "proper" buffalo hunt. Likely, I'll never be able to afford it on a pharmacist/preacher's pay. But, if I do, I want it to be on wide open areas with a gentleman PH. I don't want to hunt in a small pen and I don't want to shoot a couple from the truck while driving down the road or jump off the truck and shoot them in some country other than South Africa.
Who will I choose to hunt with when that time comes? As of yet, I have no idea. A lot of that decision will come from recommendations, some will come from what they post that I read on the forums I peruse, and from talking to the PH/Outfitter in person or by phone.

I hope God allows me this opportunity, but if He doesn't, then I feel sure I will be satisfied and happy with whatever He blesses me with in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

so, it's OK to be factually wrong and shoot off your mouth to humiliate someone.

But, it's not OK for a 3rd party to point out the indignity of that treatment?

talk about a warped sense of fairness.


Go to AH, here on AR, 24HR, etc and you will never find a thread where I attacked anyone.
What you see in my posts on this thread is my pointing out the unfairness of the treatment of someone else.
And, trying to remind people, in a humorous way, that we can be civilized. We ought to be gentlemen.
We ought to be fair.
Bravo when you shoot your mouth off and you have your facts right and a thief or a crook or unethical person is exposed.
But, when you are factually wrong, you ought to have the humility to man-up and simply say "I was wrong."

Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Maybe I was a little rough in my attempts to get a point across. But, I learned on this thread that it's one of the things that makes someone a man. lol

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

so, it's OK to be factually wrong and shoot off your mouth to humiliate someone.

But, it's not OK for a 3rd party to point out the indignity of that treatment?

talk about a warped sense of fairness.


Go to AH, here on AR, 24HR, etc and you will never find a thread where I attacked anyone.
What you see in my posts on this thread is my pointing out the unfairness of the treatment of someone else.
And, trying to remind people, in a humorous way, that we can be civilized. We ought to be gentlemen.
We ought to be fair.
Bravo when you shoot your mouth off and you have your facts right and a thief or a crook or unethical person is exposed.
But, when you are factually wrong, you ought to have the humility to man-up and simply say "I was wrong."

Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Maybe I was a little rough in my attempts to get a point across. But, I learned on this thread that it's one of the things that makes someone a man. lol

I don't go on those sites. I don't have the time. I don't care what your behaviour is elsewhere. You have been no gentleman here. And you a pastor?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

so, it's OK to be factually wrong and shoot off your mouth to humiliate someone.

But, it's not OK for a 3rd party to point out the indignity of that treatment?

talk about a warped sense of fairness.


Go to AH, here on AR, 24HR, etc and you will never find a thread where I attacked anyone.
What you see in my posts on this thread is my pointing out the unfairness of the treatment of someone else.
And, trying to remind people, in a humorous way, that we can be civilized. We ought to be gentlemen.
We ought to be fair.
Bravo when you shoot your mouth off and you have your facts right and a thief or a crook or unethical person is exposed.
But, when you are factually wrong, you ought to have the humility to man-up and simply say "I was wrong."

Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Maybe I was a little rough in my attempts to get a point across. But, I learned on this thread that it's one of the things that makes someone a man. lol

I don't go on those sites. I don't have the time. I don't care what your behaviour is elsewhere. You have been no gentleman here. And you a pastor?

Jeff

you're a funny guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

so, it's OK to be factually wrong and shoot off your mouth to humiliate someone.

But, it's not OK for a 3rd party to point out the indignity of that treatment?

talk about a warped sense of fairness.


Go to AH, here on AR, 24HR, etc and you will never find a thread where I attacked anyone.
What you see in my posts on this thread is my pointing out the unfairness of the treatment of someone else.
And, trying to remind people, in a humorous way, that we can be civilized. We ought to be gentlemen.
We ought to be fair.
Bravo when you shoot your mouth off and you have your facts right and a thief or a crook or unethical person is exposed.
But, when you are factually wrong, you ought to have the humility to man-up and simply say "I was wrong."

Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Maybe I was a little rough in my attempts to get a point across. But, I learned on this thread that it's one of the things that makes someone a man. lol[/QUOTE

Really? Saying Andrew did this because he has a small dick is not an attempt to humiliate? Is that gentlemanly as you profess to be?

I have a question for you . You made the little dick comment? Did you make that up ? Why? Have you seen it? If not, you had to make it up. I can only think of one reason and that is to humiliate Andrew. Yup, seems real genlemanly and Christian to me.

Like Jeff said, look in the mirror. Self reflect a little.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

so, it's OK to be factually wrong and shoot off your mouth to humiliate someone.

But, it's not OK for a 3rd party to point out the indignity of that treatment?

talk about a warped sense of fairness.


Go to AH, here on AR, 24HR, etc and you will never find a thread where I attacked anyone.
What you see in my posts on this thread is my pointing out the unfairness of the treatment of someone else.
And, trying to remind people, in a humorous way, that we can be civilized. We ought to be gentlemen.
We ought to be fair.
Bravo when you shoot your mouth off and you have your facts right and a thief or a crook or unethical person is exposed.
But, when you are factually wrong, you ought to have the humility to man-up and simply say "I was wrong."

Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Maybe I was a little rough in my attempts to get a point across. But, I learned on this thread that it's one of the things that makes someone a man. lol[/QUOTE

Really? Saying Andrew did this because he has a small dick is not an attempt to humiliate? Is that gentlemanly as you profess to be?

I have a question for you . You made the little dick comment? Did you make that up ? Why? Have you seen it? If not, you had to make it up. I can only think of one reason and that is to humiliate Andrew. Yup, seems real genlemanly and Christian to me.

Like Jeff said, look in the mirror. Self reflect a little.

Of course it was Larry.
It seems nothing else was working.
Arrogance and obstinance were hand in hand.
Did I say he had a little dick?
No. I made a statement that he, like other men who blather on like he did, were usually overcompensating for something. I gave some choices for what they overcompensate on. Why are you only focused on "the little dick"? it could be one of the other choices. I don't know.

when folks act like children, maybe they need a taste of their own medicine?

And I don't believe I said "dick". I used the medical term "willy". lol.

even though I'm a preacher, can't I be a real man too and be rough with people?

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

Rev,

You are and have been pounding out a fair bit of arrogance yourself this entire thread. Take a look in the mirror.

Jeff

so, it's OK to be factually wrong and shoot off your mouth to humiliate someone.

But, it's not OK for a 3rd party to point out the indignity of that treatment?

talk about a warped sense of fairness.


Go to AH, here on AR, 24HR, etc and you will never find a thread where I attacked anyone.
What you see in my posts on this thread is my pointing out the unfairness of the treatment of someone else.
And, trying to remind people, in a humorous way, that we can be civilized. We ought to be gentlemen.
We ought to be fair.
Bravo when you shoot your mouth off and you have your facts right and a thief or a crook or unethical person is exposed.
But, when you are factually wrong, you ought to have the humility to man-up and simply say "I was wrong."

Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Maybe I was a little rough in my attempts to get a point across. But, I learned on this thread that it's one of the things that makes someone a man. lol[/QUOTE

Really? Saying Andrew did this because he has a small dick is not an attempt to humiliate? Is that gentlemanly as you profess to be?

I have a question for you . You made the little dick comment? Did you make that up ? Why? Have you seen it? If not, you had to make it up. I can only think of one reason and that is to humiliate Andrew. Yup, seems real genlemanly and Christian to me.

Like Jeff said, look in the mirror. Self reflect a little.

Of course it was Larry.
It seems nothing else was working.
Arrogance and obstinance were hand in hand.
Did I say he had a little dick?
No. I made a statement that he, like other men who blather on like he did, were usually overcompensating for something. I gave some choices for what they overcompensate on. Why are you only focused on "the little dick"? it could be one of the other choices. I don't know.

when folks act like children, maybe they need a taste of their own medicine?

And I don't believe I said "dick". I used the medical term "willy". lol.

even though I'm a preacher, can't I be a real man too and be rough with people?

Why impose a standard on andrew you are not willing to live by ?

Why ask for an apology on a perceived insult and slight while making an insult ?

That would be like andrew criticism of shooting into a herd of cow buffaloes and doing the same himself.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Why impose a standard on andrew you are not willing to live by ?

Why ask for an apology on a perceived insult and slight while making an insult ?

That would be like andrew criticism of shooting into a herd of cow buffaloes and doing the same himself.

Mike

Is there a difference between what Andrew did and what I did? I think motive and purpose and factual accuracy are the difference.

Andrew's thread?
1. started to humiliate someone to build himself up.
2. Was factually wrong.
3. Was mean-spirited and had no noble purpose.
4. It was about "self" and pride.

My responses?
1. highlight that he misread and that his thread was factually wrong so he could retract his remarks with honor.
2. Defend someone else for a wrong suffered. Someone I've never met or even spoken to on a forum prior to this. I certainly get nothing out of this ridiculous thread.
3. to hopefully bring a resolution to a ridiculous situation.
4. To nudge an acknowledgement of misunderstanding in the beginning and that the gentlemen could, in a sense, shake hands and move on. I acknowledge that my responses became more than just good-natured humor as the arrogance and obstinence became entrenched even further leading me to respond "rougher". lol.

I suppose my attempts to, at first, reconcile folks were absolutely unsuccessful. And, further, I admit that my attempts to goad an acknowledgement and/or apology were a dismal failure.

I suppose this thread is an exercise in futility and seemingly a waste of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Why impose a standard on andrew you are not willing to live by ?

Why ask for an apology on a perceived insult and slight while making an insult ?

That would be like andrew criticism of shooting into a herd of cow buffaloes and doing the same himself.

Mike

Is there a difference between what Andrew did and what I did? I think motive and purpose and factual accuracy are the difference.

Andrew's thread?
1. started to humiliate someone to build himself up.
2. Was factually wrong.
3. Was mean-spirited and had no noble purpose.
4. It was about "self" and pride.

My responses?
1. highlight that he misread and that his thread was factually wrong so he could retract his remarks with honor.
2. Defend someone else for a wrong suffered. Someone I've never met or even spoken to on a forum prior to this. I certainly get nothing out of this ridiculous thread.
3. to hopefully bring a resolution to a ridiculous situation.
4. To nudge an acknowledgement of misunderstanding in the beginning and that the gentlemen could, in a sense, shake hands and move on. I acknowledge that my responses became more than just good-natured humor as the arrogance and obstinence became entrenched even further leading me to respond "rougher". lol.

I suppose my attempts to, at first, reconcile folks were absolutely unsuccessful. And, further, I admit that my attempts to goad an acknowledgement and/or apology were a dismal failure.

I suppose this thread is an exercise in futility and seemingly a waste of time.

I think you should print this off and distribute it to your "flock" reverend.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:


I think you should print this off and distribute it to your "flock" reverend.

Jeff

maybe I could the next time I preach on the woman caught in adultery. Jesus stepped in to protect a woman who was being maliciously vilified by arrogant people wanting to humiliate her while upholding their own superiority. Was she guilty? evidently. But it wasn't about that. If it was, why didn't they go after the man also?

I imagine they went after her for a few reasons.
1. easy target.They could shoot off their mouths without consequence.
2. Feel more superior about self.
3. Trap Jesus with His answers.

Jesus? He had nothing to gain by defending this woman. He knew He would be attacked in the process. Yet, He went ahead anyway because it was the right thing to do when someone is maliciously attacked for sport so the attacker can continue to feel superior.
What inferiority were the pharisees hiding and had been overcompensating for?
I don't know, but Jesus must have wrote some of them in the dirt, because when He stood up and said "Let Him who is without sin cast the first stone", they dropped their stones and walked away.
At least they realized they were factually wrong in the "trial" they enacted. They realized they were wrong. Dropping their stones and walking away was basically an admittance on their part.

Of course, later they vilified the preacher Jesus for bringing their improper behavior to their attention.

Not comparing myself to Jesus, but I think the things I posted were similar to His reactions at times. I could post a few passages where Jesus humiliated the arrogant people who wrong-headedly enjoyed humiliating others.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:


Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Arrogance is no more an exclusive feature of the wealthy than jealousy is an exclusive feature of the poor.



Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:


Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Arrogance is no more an exclusive feature of the wealthy than jealousy is an exclusive feature of the poor.



Cheers
Jim

touche'. I fully agree.
But, arrogance is not one of my character flaws.
I am flawed, no doubt, but not arrogant.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:


Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Arrogance is no more an exclusive feature of the wealthy than jealousy is an exclusive feature of the poor.



Cheers
Jim

touche'. I fully agree.
But, arrogance is not one of my character flaws.
I am flawed, no doubt, but not arrogant.

You know I do not have to say another thing about this......... you are making my point quite nicely all by yourself.

Have a good life and take care.

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:


I think you should print this off and distribute it to your "flock" reverend.

Jeff

maybe I could the next time I preach on the woman caught in adultery. Jesus stepped in to protect a woman who was being maliciously vilified by arrogant people wanting to humiliate her while upholding their own superiority. Was she guilty? evidently. But it wasn't about that. If it was, why didn't they go after the man also?

I imagine they went after her for a few reasons.u
1. easy target.They could shoot off their mouths without consequence.
2. Feel more superior about self.
3. Trap Jesus with His answers.

Jesus? He had nothing to gain by defending this woman. He knew He would be attacked in the process. Yet, He went ahead anyway because it was the right thing to do when someone is maliciously attacked for sport so the attacker can continue to feel superior.
What inferiority were the pharisees hiding and had been overcompensating for?
I don't know, but Jesus must have wrote some of them in the dirt, because when He stood up and said "Let Him who is without sin cast the first stone", they dropped their stones and walked away.
At least they realized they were factually wrong in the "trial" they enacted. They realized they were wrong. Dropping their stones and walking away was basically an admittance on their part.

Of course, later they vilified the preacher Jesus for bringing their improper behavior to their attention.

Not comparing myself to Jesus, but I think the things I posted were similar to His reactions at times. I could post a few passages where Jesus humiliated the arrogant people who wrong-headedly enjoyed humiliating others.

Yes you are comparing yourself to Jesus. At least attempting to. All I can say is wow.

Jeff

Self reflection or lack thereof is an amazing thing. Lack thereof in this case.

Oh well , back to hog hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:


Oh well , back to hog hunting.

Sow or Boar?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Rphguy:


Arrogance? Me? not at all. I'm not wealthy enough to be able to be arrogant.

Arrogance is no more an exclusive feature of the wealthy than jealousy is an exclusive feature of the poor.



Cheers
Jim

True but.....

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:


Oh well , back to hog hunting.

Sow or Boar?

The first was a bar hog. Waiting on a big one now. Going froggin tonight. Just like Alaska!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:


Oh well , back to hog hunting.

Sow or Boar?

The first was a bar hog. Waiting on a big one now. Going froggin tonight. Just like Alaska!

Make sure you dont shoot one bigger than mine.

Mike

I never believe a word from a politician!

And I never believe a word from anyone claiming to represent God.

Both are in it to control us, nothing else!

Do as I say, not as I do is their mantra!

Saeed,

I agree with you. No politician is trustworthy in my opinion. And, no priest, preacher, Imam, or other religious leader should delve into politics.