Ed
I also get a "red x", on 2 different computers/systems. I tried doing a direct connect and got sent to a "holding" page???

3 different 12ga FH loads

12ga FH next to a 2 3/4" 12ga shell (2 700HE cases undergiong their forming in the middle)

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:

WOW!!! What is the round on the extreme left?

Thanks Bob for posting pictures, and the reason
pics ain't coming up from my site,except for me is we are changing our site to another web host and it isn't done yet. Should work in day or so.
It works for me as my isp and host is same local company here.In top pic he posted is
Barnes sabot, Dixie lead Terminator in middle,
and Bridger banded third.Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:

WOW!!! What is the round on the extreme left?

#1 408 Chey-Tac
#2 500 Nitro
#3 700 HE Belt started, body not yet swedged
#4 700 HE After fireforming, still needs final anneal and taper expand.
#5 12gaFH W/Bridger banded bullet
#6 2 3/4 Federal w/ 3/4oz Barnes sabot

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
captain- can you get me info on breech and muzzle od, and I can figure the loads
you could set up with our brass, either
with cases cut back to 3 in or chamber reamed out to use brass full length.Ed.

Made a quick call to NEF. The bbl is a straight pipe of 0.893" OD (this seems smaller than I recall, but maybe my memory is off. I thought it was just over 1" diam). Length is 24" with a 1:35" twist. Factory chamber is 3"

Ultra Slug Hunter

I really like the looks of the round loaded with the Bridger banded bullet!

One other question on making cases: are you using solder/loctite of some kind in the threads for the rims?

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
#1 408 Chey-Tac

WOAH, I have two 408s in my collection, so now I get an even better idea "just how big" these 12gaFH rounds are!!!!!

BTW, what does "FH" stand for? Jest Kureous.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
BTW, what does "FH" stand for? Jest Kureous.

"From Hell" (See thread title.)

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
#1 408 Chey-Tac

WOAH, I have two 408s in my collection, so now I get an even better idea "just how big" these 12gaFH rounds are!!!!!

BTW, what does "FH" stand for? Jest Kureous.

Another scale referance for you, the "700 Hubel Express" and the "12ga From Hell" both start off as 50BMG brass that's had the neck/shoulder streightened out.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
BTW, what does "FH" stand for? Jest Kureous.

"From Hell" (See thread title.)

OK, now I feel REALLY DUMB!!!

Mr. Ed Hubel, will you PLEASE consider starting your OWN WEBSITE showing your exploits!!! I noticed on THIS THREAD on Greybeard Outdoors that you are even playing with 4 and 2 bores. I think MANY FELLAS would love to see you have a website similar to Dave Estergaard's .470 Mbogo.

I know that you noted on the other thread that you noted:

quote:

Don't have a website for that..They aren't inventions,
as much as just getting things already out there
to work for big bore nuts.At a decent price.To
get out the info about what we do, we post on here,
HA, AR, NX, etc, which will let you and others keep up on our progress.

But I STILL think folks would love to see "how you do it." Maybe Robgunbuilder and Tailgunner could give you additional pics and help with the site!!!

BTW, may I ask, how does the recoil of either the 700 Hubel Express or the 12gaFH compare to a .577 double rifle? Or have you ever shot a .577 double?

I'm also DYING to see you make a nylon shot cup and see how many 00 or 000 buckshot you can fit in one of those 12gaFH rounds, and targets showing the distruction. Of course, it would have to be at close range since you have a RIFLED barrel. It'd still be "cool."

Captain--That barrel size .893 isn't big
enough for our types of loads.The original
slug barrel on my Sav 210 was .915 muzzle and it ain't heavy enough.Barrel should be min
1.1 in at muzzle to use slow powder loads,
at 20k psi peak pressures.My barrel I put on
Savage 210 is 1.3 in at muzzle..BY using our brass you make the breech stronger, bolt thrust
about the same even at higher pressures(heavy case holds much more thrust than plastic),
so if you load hi-velocity with big volumes of powder, the muzzle has got to be much heavier so it won't split.The rims on cases are threaded and loctited on. Rims will hold any
extraction force that would be needed
for any load Rob or I could load and shoot.

Woodsracer..We will test some buckshot loads
in a few weeks-Recoil of 12GA FH in
25 lbgun for 730 gr
at 2700 is about 1.5 times that of a 577 12 lb
double,The 700He with 1000grs at 3000 fps,
30 lb gun would be about 3 times.

Ok about website.. We have our tv promotion site now that we have kept up for 8 years, and we are getting it moved this week to another host that is set up for our ftp programming to
work and maintain site.IE we can do it
from our dialup instead of having ISP do it,and they are 25 miles away, real inconvenient.My boy does two of our other sites for our ebay business and in about 3 months we plan on putting info about my cartridges and experimenting on my site, as it will be easier to do, as we do it ourselves.....Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:

Woodsracer..We will test some buckshot loads
in a few weeks Cool, thanks! -Recoil of 12GA FH in
25 lbgun for 730 gr
at 2700 is about 1.5 times that of a 577 12 lb
double,The 700He with 1000grs at 3000 fps,
30 lb gun would be about 3 times. Holy CRAP!!! I would love to have a .577 or bigger. You must have Ti balls and a Ti brain!!! Guess I'll stick to the Pee-Wee guns like the .577 or back down to the .470!!!

Ok about website.. We have our tv promotion site now that we have kept up for 8 years I've never seen it. , and we are getting it moved this week to another host that is set up for our ftp programming to
work and maintain site.IE we can do it
from our dialup instead of having ISP do it,and they are 25 miles away, real inconvenient.My boy does two of our other sites for our ebay business What is your Ebay business? and in about 3 months we plan on putting info about my cartridges and experimenting on my site I can't wait!!! , as it will be easier to do, as we do it ourselves.....Ed

Woodsracer--Recoil is not bad with big thick
recoil pads and proper gun balance.Look
at the picture of Rob's gun and the pad.
Rob's 700BMG IMp puts out like 700 will and he
has shot it, and he isn't big like me or
others on here.Good gun layout and good recoil
pads make it easy...

Fritz454- if your reading this-thanks for
the tremendous job you did in making and
putting rims on cases for us..imagine one case
fired 30 times and base doesn't need resizing,
and it could be fired 50 more times at moderate
peak pressures without sizing base.I will fire it a bunchmore then section case and put pic on here.Fritz, how is your 12GA FH coming along?

Our ebay business is selling refurbished,
etc; electronics, computer stuff, printers,
office stuff, audio, video, etc; that we pick up at surplus school and state auctions..My
boy does most of it,and I help.Ed.

One thing I've learned is make the rims out of steel not brass. The brass ones distort when seating the primers. I'm shooting my 12 GAFH THIS WEEKEND AND WILL HAVE SOME REPORTS BACK ON MONDAY.-ROB

I am surprised no one has asked about running a 12 ga FH reamer down the chambers of a 12 ga SxS shotgun.

Rob-have you had any problems with rims
on extraction from your rifle?..I haven't,and
have had no problems with priming. But
I did bend one rim when case stuck in
the die I crimp with.It was in Ammomaster
with my linkage changes that doubles the power of the press;still took 100 lb pull on handle
to bend the rim.. I am reworking die a
little to get more step to the inside shoulder that crimps mouth,and give clearance from
case so brass don't wedge. I want to crimp
without having to lube top of case.
On getting military crimp out of
pockets I use special reamer I rigged up
and priming works easy.It puts a short
smooth, clean radius at start of pocket.
Swaged some pockets in regular manner, and
primers seemed to go in harder.Primers are
still tight on depriming, even on the case
fired 30 times.Ed.

500gr-There are few asking, and I'm
telling them to make sure they have heavy
barrels..Some on here have posted info
in the past about some brands with heavier barrels than other brands.I have an extra
rifled barrel blank to sell.Ed.

We got 750 gr Bridger banded hollowbase bullet,
2520 fps.About a 33k load.

Also should mention how I reamed chamber.
Getting big reamers built is a pain and expensive.And this idea may help others..
First I took a straight reamerand made it freebore diameter with a 2 degree taper on the
end..This reamed out rifling and I went in far
enough to set freebore and lead into rifling.
This was in lathe with power.Did all work with barrel in lathe.Lot of guys cut chambers with
boring bars in CNC lathes, but mine ain't that way and is a little worn.So I took # 11 taper pin reamer(which has steeper angle than sides of
12GA FH case)and hand reamed it out to about
.010 less than base diameter. This removed
lot of volume easy.In all work, tools lubed.
Then I mounted a long taper reamer on slide in toolholder and using one flute of it like a long
lathe tool, reamed the rest of the chamber.With power and works smooth and does so because rifling is gone so tool don't jump.Run reamer into marks I set and then fed it with slide.Adjusted angle as needed.Used cases, inside telescoping guages,calipers, mics,
etc to check as I reamed it out.Take a little,
back tool out, wipe off shavings,clean chamber,
relube tool with cutting oil and do it again.
Reason this works is huge chamber gives the room.Reamer is a #8 taper pin reamer.On the one flute cutting I put 35 deg angle on end of flute for leade from chamber to freebore area.I get the final acccurate size with small cylinder hones and gets good smooth finish.
About tne last .002......
I did a short tube first to use with a cap
made from a big threaded nut, to fireform my 700 HE.Worked great, so being brave I did
12ga. Now that Igot system practiced I am doing
my long 700HE barrel chamber same way.And do
belt recess in barrel(700 is belted case),
with lathe tool.. This way I can get chambers
good for extraction.. Start out with
min chamber and If not perfect extraction, run
tool in and make it right.12ga is perfect
with tight 12ga chamber, cases fall out.
Saved 800 bucks on the two(12ga-700) big reamers, from a manufacturer, with pilots,
integral throaters, etc.,,,,..Will use same system on bigger 900HE, 2-4bore, etc
down the road..probly save couple grand
more.Makes it easier to buy action to put
700 in.Ed.

Well, I never thought I would see something that made my 4 Bore muzzle loader look small.
You guys are nuts! And I mean that in the nicest possible way!
One day I am going to have to get a closer look at one of these babies.
'Till then, have fun!

Cheers, Dave.

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Well, I never thought I would see something that made my 4 Bore muzzle loader look small.
You guys are nuts! And I mean that in the nicest possible way!
One day I am going to have to get a closer look at one of these babies.
'Till then, have fun!

Cheers, Dave.

We need some VIDEOS to disprove that the .577 Tyrannosaur is THE "flying gun."

When spring gets here we will make a video.
Maybe do 700 at same time. Am planning
it that way.
I guess we may be nutty but if we can stock and
balance them right we shouldn't hurt ourselves,
or let one get away.Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
When spring gets here we will make a video.
Ed.

WOW, the video camera needs a SPRING!!! That REALLY is SOME KINDA GUN!!!

Well I just got back from a nice Range session with the 12Ga FH. I was having great fun with a load of 300 grs of Rl-25 and a 750gr Bridger solid. It runs about 2450fps and recoil is really pretty mild. Accuracy at 50 yrds offhand ( 25lb rifle) was 2 inches . Very impressive fireball and the report is like a cannon going off. Sure got lots of attention! After firing I would open the block, hold the gun up and watch the cases just drop out! Shot about 10 rounds this way! I then mostly worked out fireforming loads. I found that a annealed .50BMG case filled with 35 grs of Bulleseye and then packed with oat meal and a soap plug will blow a case out to final dimensions perfectly.
I also found that the brass 12 GaFH rims are just too weak to prime with .50BMG primers. They distort too easily particularily when you arm the primer. I solved the problem by chucking a .50BMG case in the lathe and drilling it out 37/64 and then tapping 5/8X24. I then parted the threaded .50BMG rim off and screwed it onto the 5/8X24 threaded 12 ga FH cases. You can now use a standard .50BMG shellholder to deprime, prime, seat etc. All you then do is unscrew the .50BMG rim and screw-on the 12 Ga FH rim and shoot. Neat solution if I say so myself.
Ed- Nice job on the reamer! I took the easy way out and had one made. Now for the reloading dies, I just used a boring Bar with a taper attachment on my DRO equipped lathe to make the sizing and loading dies. They worked out just fine. I really considered just making the chamber on my barrel with a boring bar as its so darn simple, but finally deceided to have a reamer made. I also think you could make a half reamer for this thing easily enough. On a 12 Bore barrel your removing so little metal the whole job only takes 1/2 hr with coolant feed up the muzzel to remove chips quickly. My chamber turned out just like a mirror and I was upset that I had to 400 grit it.
This project has really turned out to be a winner.-Rob

Rob, nice thinking on how to reprime your cases . Proves that there is more than one way to skin a cat err prime a case.

Hog Killer

Rob-Do you swage pockets first..I made a little reamer deal that allows for easy removal of
the GI crimp and leaves a small smooth
radius on pocket edge, so priming is easy..
One case fired 33 times, and pocket is tight.
As for chamber reamer tool deal I went to,
I had used it to build big 4bore dies,
then 12ga dies, and others, and with practice I got brave enough to do the chambers.Along with using brake cylinder hones,to smooth,
I can make chambers and make dies real easy.
Isn't it great how the cases fall out.For the
first 5 cases I didn't have Savage extractor
in the bolt head and cases fell out when gun was tipped up.Using slow powders is great as it will never wear brass out, and I have a bushel
of slow surplus....Can even use the devils
powder, 7383..Rob are Hirtenberger primers
a little softer than CCI, and are they good quality? Ed.

Caution- CCI No. 35 primers must be individually inspected for cracks before using. To date there have been three confirmed reports of damaged firearms due to cracked primers burning through on .50BMG's. I would not use a CCI primer period! The best are RWS, but they are very hard to find.
Ed- I have a primer pocket reamer and depth tool that I use on all my cases. It's handmade, but has worked on thousands of cases.-Rob

Rob-Thanks for info on primers.Will inspect
them with magnifying glass. Will see about
getting RWS. Here is pic of my gun, some of you have seen it before, but I have to find out if
our new host site is working.If readers
can see picture please let us know.Ed

Ed- If you find some RWS primers let me know.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:

Let's see it SCOPED!

Rob if we can find them we will have to
get a big bunch of them..The only way to make big cases, so as to have primers that can light up pine stumps..

Woodsracer- I will have regular front sight and a rear peep sight on in next few weeks.For
everyones information here is pic of Savage 3
lug bolt next to Enfield bolt from my 458HE.
You can see the size, and that is why I like
it and why it would work for NE cases and other big stuff.Ed.

Ed- what are the barrel thead dimensions for the savage?-Rob

Rob- 1.120 in x 20 tps--Threaded section of
barrel is .840 in long. Now threads in reciever
are interupted by the 3 grooves that were
machined in reciever that the big bolt
carrier and 3 lugs slides in. Still strong enough as I've tested for operating with
35k loads, but if guy could get larger diameter action built(say 1.55 in dia instead
of 1.37), treated, and make threads little larger,and longer, say 1.27 x 20, 1 inch long,
then it would be solid threads all around
and thicker sides back where lug seats are, so it could hold 60k,
with 12GA FH.Even hold yours and mine 700s.Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:

Woodsracer- I will have regular front sight and a rear peep sight on in next few weeks.For
everyones information here is pic of Savage 3
lug bolt next to Enfield bolt from my 458HE.
You can see the size, and that is why I like
it and why it would work for NE cases and other big stuff.Ed.

The only comment that I would like to point out is in the pic, it doesn't seem to have much LUG BEARING AREA?!?!? Maybe I've missed something, but it looks as though if you really push it the lugs could shear off and implant the bolt into your cheekbone?!? Any additional comments to clear up my foggy thinking???

The lugs are the same height as the right
lug on Enfield .120. and there is 3 of them.
Calculated shear rating is 42,000 lbs for the
3 and with 4th lug I put on bolt handle, that I set up to be a bearing lug also, adds another
15,000 lbs. I do that on all my guns, like
the two 458 HEs on my Ruger77 and Enfield(both have identical lugs),
the two lugs are rated 33,000 lbs shear and
third bearing lug I add runs it up to
53,000 lbs.(33,000 plus 20,000). I tested a
200k load in the Ruger, not intentionally,
and it stayed together, Bulged barrel but
still using action with another barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
The lugs are the same height as the right
lug on Enfield .120. and there is 3 of them.
Calculated shear rating is 42,000 lbs for the
3 and with 4th lug I put on bolt handle, that I set up to be a bearing lug also, adds another
15,000 lbs. I do that on all my guns, like
the two 458 HEs on my Ruger77 and Enfield(both have identical lugs),
the two lugs are rated 33,000 lbs shear and
third bearing lug I add runs it up to
53,000 lbs.(33,000 plus 20,000). I tested a
200k load in the Ruger, not intentionally,
and it stayed together, Bulged barrel but
still using action with another barrel.

So basically for one of us normal, non-'smithing fellas, we are held to 33,000 psi loads since we can't add the extra bearing lugs?

I applaud your ingenuity, BTW!!!

Thrust rating of lugs and psi inside of
case an explanation.
On enfield and Ruger actions original thrust rating
is 33,000 lbs, not psi, which allows for
peak psi of 70,000 psi, for any cartridge
you could use in those actions(Nyati,
550 Mag, 577Trex, my long 577, 600 OK), diameter wise, as bolts are .700 in dia.
On Savage 210, that the 12GA FH is on original
thrust shear rating is 42,000 lbs which allows
for a safe operating pressure with present action thickness of 35,000 psi, on cases the diameter of BMG, 12 ga, 700 NE, etc.Now with
smaller cases like 577NE, 550 Mag, Nyati,it would hold 70,000 psi loads..
I didn't seem to
explain it properly and I don't want confusion about Peak PSI of the powder
going off in the case and the pounds of bolt thrust that lugs on an action will handle.
And all designers set up lugs to hold 2.5 plus
times the actual case thrust. At 35,000 peak
psi on 12GA FH, there is about 12,000 lbs
thrust on the Savage bolt.Ed.

Thank you very much Ed for that tutorial!!! If I keep this up, I'm going to get even more "bitten."

It is the only way to go, as good as getting done in by jealous husband.And only reason
I added extra bearing lugs, is when I
started testing and developing my cases they're
unknown entities and in load testing I got
to have every margin of safety I can put
into the guns..And in the case of the Savage
if I can find someone to do thickwall reciever,
will be able to use extra rating.Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
It is the only way to go, as good as getting done in by jealous husband.And only reason
I added extra bearing lugs, is when I
started testing and developing my cases they're
unknown entities and in load testing I got
to have every margin of safety I can put
into the guns..And in the case of the Savage
if I can find someone to do thickwall reciever,
will be able to use extra rating.Ed.

You're a wise man, Ed!

Here is picture of original Savage 210 barrel flanked by heavy barrel used now,Note that it
butts to reciever as opposed to locking nut
on original.Ed