The shot that started this thread:
7mm SAUM
162 gr A-Max
BC .625
67gr H1000
Est MV 2902
Energy est at 925yds = 1000fp
Vel est at 925yds = 1700fps

energy est of 30-30 (170gr RN)at 200 yds = 1025fp

Interestingly, (very) I ran the numbers on the Sierra 220 8mm bullet that I mentioned above, and starting at an est of 2800fps, the energy left at 925 yds is almost exactly the same as the 7mm SAUM & A-Max numbers at the same distance. The better BC of the 7mm makes a lot of difference.

KB

You want to shoot stuff at 900 yards shoot gongs and paper. This has no place in the field.

The term "good practice" and "big game" I have a hard time with in the same sentence.

I've seen a couple of videos this outfit produces and have been less than impressed.

IIR, In one video a guy actually passes up a shot on a ram because it wasn't far enough. In another a guy shoots a bull elk at 600 yards with a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 129 grain bullet. It worked, but not the best choice by any means.

Anybody think a .243 caliber, 105 grain bullet at 740 yards is on the marginal side for big game? I do.

I just cant agree with shooting at a living animal at these extreem extended yardages. But what do I know....I live in the Missouri Ozarks.

Seems to me there was a thread last year about shooting at elk with archery tackle and it was debated to be un-ethical to shoot long range with archery equipment by the author.


I cant remember the author.....

IMO, if it were a big game animal, it would have to be quite a trophy for me to do it.

As far as coyotes and other varmints, I'll send bullets whenever I can.

As far as I'm concerned, big game animals are not "practice" targets and a .243 is not a long range big game cartridge.

But then, I'm not selling a special "long range rifle package" and making videos that only fool the inexperienced for a living.

According to JBM the 105 grain bullet had only about 750 ft-lbs of energy at 740 yards. Probably enough for the tiny antelope on a perfectly placed broadside vital shot.

Not enough if things go wrong on big game.

A good coyote and prarie dog long range load though!

A couple of years ago at the Dallas Safari Club convention there was an exhibitor selling long range hunting rifles. He showed me a 243 with a scope that was dial in out to 1000 yards with the yardage written on the turret. It was modified so one turn of the turret would cover from 200 to 1000 yards (or close to that).

His sell was "Range the animal, set the scope, line up the crosshairs, and shoot. You can kill an elk out to 1000 yards with my set-up."

I turned and walked away.

Just watched another video of John Burns.

Ram Slam Precision Hunter Journal, Volume I

I was mistaken about passing up the ram shot because it wasn't long enough, but I did watch him go out one evening to "look for a cow elk to shoot at long range for good practice"

He found a group and killed one at 860

Are big game like elk and antelope in Wyoming considered worthless except for a target to "practice" on?

I'm sure they have a season and are managed, aren't they? .

He would be better served to leave those comments out of his videos. Also the one about his rifle package being a "turn key" system. He states that all that is needed is to zero the rifle and go hunting.

I think he is turning 200 yard slob hunters with some $ into 1000 yard slob hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

I think he is turning 200 yard slob hunters with some $ into 1000 yard slob hunters.

RC,

This last statement of your's, say's in one sentence what I have been failing to say in about 6 posts or so.

Steve

I knew what you were talking about when you mentioned the long range hunting shows. I went back and looked at his DVD to see what I remembered and I agree.

It's tough to mess with the way guys make a living. People are always looking for shortcuts to success and he is giving people what they want.

Hopefully people take his advice to practice and at least learn a little before they go afield and make a mess of things.

RC,

I know what you mean about people looking for shortcuts or just trying to "buy" their way into things or higher levels of any activity.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I am a devoted (read nuts) bicycle rider, no shortcuts, effort = results. The more effort the better your result, Shooting at hi levels I'm sure is the same.

Funny, today I was out on a local MTB trail, broke a wheel about 6 miles from the trailhead, had to walk out in the 107 degree heat (at 8am) in bike shoes

We are in complete agreement.

Steve

quote:

The more effort the better your result, Shooting at hi levels I'm sure is the same.

It is. I've mentioned it in previous posts on the thread referring to attaining a high skill level with a rifle at any range.

Sorry to hear about the problems and the heat! But right now it sounds good to me! I'm sick as a dog!

Great shot. I just love how some people want to judge other people about taking a long range shot. I practice long range all the time in case I need to use it. I consider it another tool in the tool box. Hunting is hunting you are out there with the hopes of trying to shoot whatever game you are after range is a non-factor. I have fired 200 rounds just in the last 3 weeks from just my 338 rum from 300 yards to 1000 yards. In anything from 30 MPH winds to heavy mirage to low light just to get ready for my elk hunt. I would be willing to bet most of the naysayers on here have not fired that many rounds this year. Oh by the way it says long range on the forum if you don’t like it don’t click on it.

After you have found your game and decided to take the shot. It is all shooting after that.

quote:

Originally posted by dakor:
Great shot. I just love how some people want to judge other people about taking a long range shot. I practice long range all the time in case I need to use it. I consider it another tool in the tool box. Hunting is hunting you are out there with the hopes of trying to shoot whatever game you are after range is a non-factor. I have fired 200 rounds just in the last 3 weeks from just my 338 rum from 300 yards to 1000 yards. In anything from 30 MPH winds to heavy mirage to low light just to get ready for my elk hunt. I would be willing to bet most of the naysayers on here have not fired that many rounds this year. Oh by the way it says long range on the forum if you don’t like it don’t click on it.

Dakor:

Is that elk hunt on your own or guided? FYI: thanks to the proliferation of long range shooting, today if you wound an animal your hunt is done. One thing to shoot an antelope on your own, another thing to have the balls to take a long range shot on an 8K elk hunt and have it end if you don't kill that elk.

A few years ago I shot a prairie dog at 573 yards sitting (using a sling and shooting sticks) with my first shot; I used nothing more than the dots for elevation and windage, and had to use both of them. Liam Yarborough from Bushnell witnessed the shot. But just because I did something once doesn't mean I can do it 90 percent of the time.

This guy is shooting a 7 SAUM. Assuming he is shooting at a 180 Berger VLD at 2700 fps, that bullet drifts 5.1 inches in a 1 mph wind. In other words, an error of 1 mph moves his entire group five inches, so now the group is centering on the edge of the vital area. Still, there is a 50% chance of hitting due to the fact that half the bullets you fire will impact to one side or the other of your point of aim. So if you only try this once, and can estimate the wind within 1 mph, you do stand a 50% chance of hitting. But doing it 90 percent of time is a different story.

It does look as if there was very little wind (slight drift left to right). But anyone who doesn't think there is a healthy dose of luck doesn't understand the TOF of this bullet is well over 1 second - a lot can happen in that 1 second.

I seriously don't understand anyone who thinks that once a bullet begins to drift over 5 inches in a 1 mph wind they have any business shooting.

This guy apparently does use an outfitter, so I assume if he missed his hunt is done. So I will give him that. But all of the whooping and hollering and exclamation of surprise sure tells me he was surprised he made the shot. And while it might have been the first shot at that antelope, we don't know how many misses he had before that. At 900 yards it is pretty hard to prove a hit or miss. Outfitters should treat these shots like shooting at a hippo in the water - you shoot and you just bought it.