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Gerard No man, no pain in the butt at all! I am sorry to take so long getting back to you, but it has been extremely hectic around here for the last few days. This is a box of 500 gr .458s that a friend of mine sent down to me a few months ago. On one inside flap I find the letters "SV", on the other inside flap I find something in cursive, I really can't make out? Does SV help identify? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Thank you Michael, The SV helps as it indicates that they were made before December 2005. The bullet was upgraded for better gas handling and less engraving pressure in August 2008. Time flies. | |||
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No problem Gerard, happy to do so. As you can see even the 2005 version did very well in the barrel strain tests, indicated what you have said all along. Time Flies? WAY TOO FAST and the older we get, it actually speed up it seems! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Thought the 9,3x74R crowd should see this double rifle bullet of the future.
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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 This is my Merkel 140 .500 NE shot off an MTM rest at 25 yds. The load: CEB BBW #13 570 gr solids (2 of the holes) and 4 NON-CONS. The bullets were seated to the bottom of the top driving band and crimp there with LFCD. They were over 96 gr of R-15 with Kynoch foam wad over the powder. I was using CCI magnum LR primers. They chronoed at ~2030 fps at 15 feet from the muzzle. I will shoot this load at 50 yds. next and then decide if I need a little more powder. Sam, Michael, & all; What do you think? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane I can't say for sure, but looks like that would sort out anything you wanted to do at 25 yds. Yep, take it to 50 and see what you see. I am loading some 500 Nitro right now, 108/IMR 4350, gives 2150 fps with the 570s in Sam's rifles. Gave both barrels together at 25. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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While you have Sam's rifle...why don't you try some RL-15. NFMike pressure tessted R-15 in the .500 NE and said 92 gr was a good starting load. For the NF FNS...he said it was superior to 4350's...FWIW. I would like to see you try some in Sam's rifle. NFMike told me that it did not require a filler...that has been my experience as well...can't see any difference with or with out filler. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane I am sorry, I don't have his rifle here, he had both of them down last week and we were shooting them. If I had it, I would be happy to try that load and see what we got. We can probably do that when we get back from DSC? Sam is scared to leave them with me, I might break them!  Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Probably whip out the band saw and cut the barrels apart looking for the bolt ...  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Lane the RL-15 loads seem to be on the slow side. From your group if you are getting LL and RR you need more speed. The 108 grs of IMR 4350 worked great in my guns and shot about 2 inches at 50 yds. Sam | |||
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I shot some 106 gr IMR-4350 loads in my rifle...with the CEB solids and they crossed about 2 inches at 25 yds with a lot more recoil (at least it seemed) than the RL-15 loads. With 108 gr of IMR-4350 and the 570 gr CEB BBW#13's...weren't those loads fairly compressed??? Seemed like I was getting some compression with 106 gr. It seems like R-17 might be the ticket...I wish y'all or NFMike would pressure test it so I could feel safe in trying it again after the one round I shot and got scared. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane if you are crossing you need to slow it down. You said you were scared of you load with RL-17? What happened? Was gun hard to open or were cases stuck in chambers? I have not tried RL-17 so I can't help you there. What was you gun regulated with. Kynoch ammo in my 500s was around 1970 fps. Try 105 grs of IMR 4350 to get about this. Compression with the #13s is fine and better than air space. As for pressure testing I plan on hooking up my Sabatti and doing quite a few tests when I get time and if Michael is willing to mess with it. Sam | |||
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Sam, I loaded some NF's a long time ago with 95 gr of R-17. I got an unusually high speed on my chrono on the first round. I think it was chrono error but I chickened out on shooting anymore as no one had pressure tested R-17 in .500. The gun opened fine. No signs of high pressure on brass. I think it would be a good powder in .500 NE...will wait for someone to test it though. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Ya See, Good Idea Doc, I had not thought of that yet, and faster than a bastard file too! I knew there had to be a proper bolt in there somewhere! HEH................
Yes, I think that might be a fun project to work on! Hook up both ends, do chamber pressures and barrel strains as well. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Y'all please shoot some R-17 in the .500 NE.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, If those two holes at the top of your group are the solids and the others are the non cons you might need a little more powder behind the non cons. Remember they are lighter and you may not be getting them up to speed with same charge as solids. Add a grain or two to them and see what happens. Some guns shoot the solids and non cons with the same powder charge and some need a little more with the non cons. When we start testing the 500 we'll try the RL-17 for you. Might be a while before we get going with this. Sam | |||
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Hi Sam, I look forward to the R-17 data. Believe it or not... the 2 solids are the bottom L and bottom R. I shot them last. The other 4 were NON-CONs. They seem to shoot to exactly the same plase as the solids. The center of the 2 groups is still wider than the barrels so I think I will go up to 97 gr of R-15 and and shoot a set of 4 solids. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The top L and far-right R are a pair of NON-CONS (1st shot pair). Then the top R and the far-left L are a pair of NON-CONS (2nd shot pair). The last pair are solids as stated above. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Sam, One other difference I found from your rifles is the seating depth. My rifle still had vertical spread when I seated as deep as you did. When I moved out a bit and crimped just under the top band...I got horizontal groups. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, Seating depth can make a difference. Sam | |||
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That's been my experience in the 600NE, the 450/400 and the 375Fl.  Once I had found what worked with the CEB#13 solids, the Non-Cons went to the same place with the same powder and charge.  I haven't yet had the chance to see if that holds up when I add Talon Tips to the 375 Non-Cons. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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CMCDoc, It looks like you seat those .600's to same place that works well for my .500...just below the top driving band. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Yep - that's what I've found works best in my doubles. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Sam and I were thinking about a NEW DOUBLE RIFLE bullet! How do you like it???    Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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I think they need to see a urologist ...  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Michael, I agree with Doc. The foreskin girth is not as it should be.  Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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OK OK OK-------- Just monkeying with you guys! Of course this is not the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future", it's a bullet Sam made up for me, samples, to do some fire forming with them in my 500 MDM. Taking 375 RUM up to .500 caliber. HEH HEH................ I tested it yesterday, did a good job in the terminals! Amazing, I don't think you can screw up a BBW#13 NonCon no matter what you do! I was thinking with all this talk about, well privates let's say! Got me to thinking, although there are 99% Super Great guys here on AR, many many friends I have made over the last few years, every once and awhile we get "One of Those" sort of chaps! I think you know what I mean! So I have been thinking it over, and this is the PERFECT BULLET for those "Weenie Heads" we get from time to time. This bullet will be officially called the "PeckerHead" It is reserved for use only by those who choose to be--- PeckerHeads! I think it's the "Bullet of the Future" for all "DickHeads"   http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael must have liked them so much that he didn't want to shoot them. | |||
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Hasn't Michael mentioned that he "likes to roll around naked" in his bullets  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Are we on page 217 yet???? :-) | |||
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I mentioned sending some Grey Goose in the other thread...but after reading this...maybe Grey Goose is tooooo readily available already? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Hey, you guys want to see some photos of me naked in a big pile of bullets? Just let me know, I will post them for you!
That's the other thread you dufus! HEH HEH....... But we can work this one in that direction if you want! Ain't nothing to me to write 217 pages!
I got a brand new Jug of Goose for Christmas, finished the other big one, oh, and a smaller one as well, and working on the new one!!!!! YIPPIE!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, I went back to drinking some Amaretto--is that spelled correctly? Hmmmm, well anyway, that in my coke is pretty tasty to me too! Hell, little shot of goose to make it real, and some of that Amaretto on top for taste, pretty spiffy I reckon! LOL.......... I know I can shoot a hell of a lot better after two or three BIG Dixie cup full of those! M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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You know...there is some truth in that statement...I always have a drink or 2 right before I shoot my .500 NE...it does make me snuggle down and shoot it better right off. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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This is the reason I want to start a new project for Michael! He gets bored and starts talking about rolling around naked with bullets. Got to keep him on track guys!!!!!!!!! | |||
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Good luck!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Aim Straightener? maybe? All Right Sam and Michael. I got a chance to shoot my Searcy with the CEB's today. didn't load too many, just 4 each of the NonCon's and the Solid's. At 50 yards, off the bench, good solid controlled shots, I have a vertical spread of almost 3 inches. They are almost dead in line and had they been the same height, I think they might have been touching. 106 gr IMR 4831 and a Fed 215 primer. I seated and crimped in the middle of the groove(cannelure?) under the top band just as you suggested. and at 50 yards, that is still minute of buffalo but is there any way to get the vertical spread any tighter? I am fairly new to regulating a double. On the targets, the regulation load that Butch Searcy recommended was the load I used for Woodleigh softs and solids. The CEB's both NC and solids shoot the same groups as the Woodleighs. I am terrible with open sights but after almost 40 rounds, the groups were very consistent. I pull the back trigger first so the left barrel shoots About 3" higher than the right no matter whether I shoot a Solid or a NonCon. The groups stay with the vertical spread even if I shoot a solid first out of the left barrel and a NC out of the right. The shots are not crossing horizontally or if they are, it is so minute that it isn't important. Looking for help, actually I will beg if necessary. Thanks Rick Taylor | |||
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Rick, I'm assuming your gun is a 470 by the charge you mentioned. My VC 500 hated the bullets seated out and crimped in the first groove. I thought I had told you to seat and crimp over the top band. Try this and see what happens. If you are 3 inches apart at 50 yds then it should be easy to get them to come together. You might have to change powders or add a grain or two to your current load. Are you shooting a non con and a solid L & R? I would prefer you shoot the smae bullt in both barrels to find the load. Rick I misread your post and I see you are up and down with group. This is a hard one to fix. The changing of seating depth or powder is still what I would try. Sam | |||
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Thanks for getting back to me Sam. Maybe I misunderstood you on the bullet seating depth, but I thought you recommended to seat the bullet in the groove Under the top band. I will try that when I get the rifle back from Butch and the Doctor clears me to shoot again. Rotator cuff surgery on Wednesday. I will go back and check your post on it, maybe I'm just stupid. Bullets shot well, obviously less pressure than the Woodleighs and Barnes. Horizontal separation was very little but the groups were up and down. I will play with the seating depth when I get around to it in October. And yes, sir, it is a .470. I'm fairly new to the classic Double. The other .470 is a Blaser S2 and it has the regulation block in the center so horizontal separation can be adjusted but with the Searcy, the loads must be tailored like the rest of the doubles. Wasn't getting any crossing and there probably wasn't more than 1/2 to 3/4" horizontal separation. Thanks Sam Rick | |||
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 Merkel .500 NE 3" 50 yds off bench. 2090 fps average; low 2067; high 2119 front screen 15 ft from muzzle 570 gr .510 CEB BBW #13; crimped in top groove just under top band R-15 97 gr, with Kynoch wad Fed 215 The one high right barrel...I know was my fault. Sam, Michael, all: Do you think I can tighten or good to go? Michael, I am going to shoot a 6 Rd set w/out foam to see how they do. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Are R1 and R2 you or the gun? The other 4 look good. | |||
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