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Michael- Please request Dan and Nate test a 500NE 510gr v. 570gr BBW#13 solids. The comparison will help answer some of our current questions! Should be VERY interesting! Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Michael; I watched the clip and talk about devastation and trauma. Glad to hear that they decided to test some 450 Non Con and BBW#13 solids, can't wait to see the results. Best regards Malek Good shooting/hunting and God's best. Best regards Malek Good Hunting/Shooting and God's best. | |||
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Will be interesting to see the solids but they will need a lot of gel to stop them. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Here is one of the barrel strain tests Sam. | |||
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Sam The 458 caliber and 500 Nitro were better testes where we reduced the loads to get nothing but the barrel strain with no chamber pressure following the bullet... Basically same but less... than the 470s... M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Here is another strain test that Michael did with much lower pressures to be sure we weren't getting false reading from full power loads. Everything pretty much fell right into place. Sam | |||
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Here is part of filler test we did. | |||
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High barrel strain with cast bullets.... Does that make sense? What is "barrel strain" a measure of then? | |||
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Good question. Maybe the strain for that last cast was an anomaly or error of some sort. | |||
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Very informative posts! Especially for us black powder double rifle shooters! Looks like backer rod is the way to go and maybe why dacron has caused some chamber ringing by being inconsistent in pressure. I also am interested in higher pressure using lead bullets. | |||
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Read about the barrel strain tests here http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...tional-Research.html NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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The explanation for the soft cast bullets having the highest pressure is that they are "slugging up the bore"... This test seems more and more like pseudoscience or at least bad science. I am no physicist, but what about friction and wear on the rifling? Maybe cast bullets have highest pressure down the bore and that the thin barrels with soft steel can on rare occasions be damaged by this. But this does but translate to banded brass bullets (especially CEBs...any affiliation bias here?) being easier on normal barrels than other bullets..? | |||
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Thanks guys, I do have a degree in physics (40 years ago)but can't add much except that I have driven lead bullets through the barrels of my black powder double rifles to get the size mold I need and would never try to drive a jacketed bullet through a barrel. I don't think I could! I am really not concerned about the barrel strain from lead bullets as that is all I use, but more concerned about Dacron vs backer rod. I have seen a black powder double rifle by a best maker with Whitworth steel barrels that had ringed chambers from smokeless powder and fillers. I don't know what filler was used but I will bet Dacron as I know of another double rifle (black powder bottleneck case) that was ringed by using Dacron. Maybe sticking with black powder is the safest way to go! | |||
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Here is a thread on the subject of fillers. I hope this helps. 5744 and fillers thread I have been using RL-15/Norma 203B with Dacron and foam fillers in my vintage 450/400 3 inch and in my 404 Jeffery Loads. There is no ringing problem with Nitro Proofed loads! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Barrel strain is the change in circumference of the barrel when a bullet passes through it as compared to the barrel's circumference at rest. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Thank you. So that means it is only relevant as possible indicator of stress that may contribute to the unlikely event of barrel separation? I would belive hardness/surface area/pressure, and most of all type and ammount of gunpowder is responsible for normal barrel wear. Say non banded brass bullets with a steel core in high pressure rounds being worst and soft cast low pressure rounds being easiest on the barrels? | |||
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Norsk, This has been hashed out a million times on this and other threads. Barrel strain is the BEST indicator we have to measure stress put on a barrel when a projectile passes through it. The higher the strain...the more stress put on the steel of a barrel...simple as that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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There are a few things to consider in this case, two of them being: - Lead has a higher friction coefficient than copper, which in turn has a higher coefficient of friction than bronze - The "low pressure" bronze and copper bullets tested here have driving bands, i.e. thin ridges that insure obturation with minimum displacement of metal. Lead bullets, on the other hand, are subject to plastic deformation of the base (think Minié), being basically subject to continuous swaging as they ride down the bore. In other words, once the rifling is engraved in a bronze bullet's ridges, which happens as soon as the bullet enters the bore, that bullet basically rides down the barrel without much deformation or strain. On the other hand, a lead bullet will exert pressure outwards on the barrel's walls due to the "swaging" effect, all the while riding on a much larger surface with higher friction. Philip | |||
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Exactly Philip. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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A good explanation, Philip! Thanks! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Ok. Makes sense. Thanks! | |||
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Seems the smoke and mirrors opinions have need of being modified somewhat! ……………………………………………….. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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btt | |||
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Probably the best double tread on AR. Sam is a stud | |||
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Todd, we had that discussion way back, and I know you remember it. I told you then that the Ruger M-77 with strips on the barrel had nothing to do with hard bullets. As you say that rifle came from the maker that way, and it did. The reason for those stripes was from Hammer forging of the barrel that were not polished completely off at the factory. The high points originated on the outside of the barrel, while OSR originates from the inside out, and are sometimes very hard to see, and even harder to photograph. Those patterns like those on the M-77, are on all barrels that are hammer forged, but most makers polish them off before the rifles are sold, but some are left on the top six or eight inches end in front of the action for decoration. I know you do not believe OSR exist, and that is simply because you have never seen it, but I have and so have several other members of the DRSS , that was not there when when the double rifle was new. Over and out! Carry on! ......................................... MacD37 ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I have a rifle with OSR on one barrel. You can see it by looking down the barrel with the light just right. Very nice gun and got at a great price so its fine to me and been to Africa a couple times. The barrel with OSR will typically shoot 150fps slower than the other barrel with all but 1 bullet I have tried. My thought is that barrel is not sealing as tight so gas escapes past the bullet? But shoot a Northfork bullet with those really small copper driving bands and the barrels are now shoot within 20ish fps of each other with excellent accuracy. Mac | |||
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Mac, I think you have OCD, not OSR :-) Hope you're taking are of my Marcel Thys 577! | |||
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With the best care possible! Crazy accurate rifle. A real crowd pleaser! Mac | |||
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Very good Bigfoot documentary out on YouTube right now. Here's the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7SpzTeodx0 The guy has very clear video of a few Bigfoot creatures. None of the old blurry out of focus stuff. The best one at 1:47:00 in the program. Several before that as well but that's the best one. So that must mean he exists. Right? After all, this guy has SEEN it. With his own eyes. And has even videoed it for all to see. Just like OSR!!! Now if we can just get a good, clear, non-blurry video of Bigfoot riding on the back of Nessie! | |||
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Now if we can just get a good, clear, non-blurry video of Bigfoot riding on the back of Nessie! [/QUOTE] ......Good one Todd! ..................................................... MacD37 ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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