quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Anyone here who knows me realizes I don't stoop to Lying like you Liars do.

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Originally posted by Hot Core:
Of course, some of the confusion is fostered by the herd of Liars - bobby, jeffe, teanScum, tc1, gunmaker, etc., who don't have any actual first-hand Experience.

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Originally posted by TC1:

And still you just can't help yourself can you?

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Since I don't shoot that caliber of bullet I'm not thoroughly familiar with them.

KB

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Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Since I don't shoot that caliber of bullet I'm not thoroughly familiar with them.

KB

Arguments are won on merit, not by who posts the last word.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Since I don't shoot that caliber of bullet I'm not thoroughly familiar with them.

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Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Since I don't shoot that caliber of bullet I'm not thoroughly familiar with them.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Since I don't shoot that caliber of bullet I'm not thoroughly familiar with them.

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Originally posted by gunmaker:

They don't have to think, you admitted it.

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Originally posted by gunmaker:
I guess I'm confident enough in my own abilities and limitations to effectively harvest deer with my .223, 22-250, 22-250 ACK IMP, 25-06, 280Rem, 300 WIN MAG, 30-338 and nothing has dropped as fast as those shot with my 223. Nothing has ran off either. After reading my local big game laws it looks like I can use my 204 Ruger as well. I'll have to do some research on that one.

Kind of like driving in the snow. If you're not comfortable doing it, DON'T. Just don't tell me it's some silly fact that it can't or shouldn't be done.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I have clearly stated that I have no experience in pulling the trigger myself using a 223 on deer
KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I can't figure out why you seem to think that I have to actually shoot deer with a 223, and need to be thoroughly familiar with all the varities of bullets. FYI, I have shot several 223s including ARs and bolt actions, at targets, and I really enjoyed them and their very mild recoil and accuracy. IMO it's a fun cartridge. Therefore, I have little doubt that it will kill deer, and likewise I believe that I and others can take deer easily with a 223. But just like so many have said, self-control and bullet selection, and the judgment to pass up shots, is a big factor when one makes the choice of using the 223. I simply see no need to use a 223 in the first place, thus removing a weak-link variable in the formula right off the top.

There are so many examples, far too many to list, where I don't need to have intimate knowledge of and actual experience with to know what the deal is. To me clearly witnessing the inadequacy of the 223 on real field situations, with real and experienced deer hunters, and being a real and experienced hunter myself is enough. Even so, there are other facts, and observations, and info that I base my opinion and conclusions upon.

It's the same as figuring out that a particular 458 WM, with a given velocity, bullet weight, weight of rifle, etc, is going to produce such-and-such foot pounds of recoil. Sure, I can shoot it to confirm that it's gonna kick to the calculated degree, and I could watch another guy shoot it, and be equally confident it's gonna kick just like the mathmatics show it will. Although I have confirmed the kick of a 458 on my own shoulder, I absolutely don't have to do all three or even two of those things to confirm the prediction I can obtain from simple mathmatics and studying the design of the package as a whole.

That's a no-brainer, just like the 223 is a no-brainer. It is what it is, no matter which way you look at it, and no matter the fluff, and BS. Surely the Barnes TSX takes it up a notch, but not much, and certainly IMO not enough to bring it out of the varmint cartridge catagory.

KB

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I have clearly stated that I have no experience in pulling the trigger myself using a 223 on deer
KB

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
obviously the use of a varity of cartridges isn't up to your extensive requirments.

KB

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I have clearly stated that I have no experience in pulling the trigger myself using a 223 on deer
KB

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Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I have clearly stated that I have no experience in pulling the trigger myself using a 223 on deer
KB

If you haven't shot a deer with a 223 then all you have is an opinion.

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Originally posted by TC1:
Nobody ever said you coudn't have an opinion. We just said your opinion was worthless because you had no experience to form it.

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Originally posted by gunmaker:
So you're now convinced the 223 is a real deer rifle. I'm so glad.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
OK, so what's all this name calling been about?

KB

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Originally posted by TC1:

This is about as nice as I'm going to be with you and consider this nothing more than advice.

Terry

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I have to admit that I used that phrase to irritate you and prod you,
KB

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Originally posted by gunmaker:

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I have to admit that I used that phrase to irritate you and prod you,
KB

classic definition of an internet troll. You must be so proud.

Honestly I'm surprised that nobody came to KB's defense.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I have to admit that I used that phrase to irritate you and prod you,
KB

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Originally posted by TEANCUM:
For me it was when you called me a liar. ...

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Originally posted by gunmaker:
Just trying to help broaden your vocabulary Might give you some insight to the responses you got from a variety of sources.

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I have to admit that I used that phrase to irritate you and prod you,
KB

Internet troll: someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.

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I’m embarrassed to be a part of a discussion that includes you.

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I started out just like others did in this thread, just relating experiences and expressing opinion

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Threads like this maybe, just maybe could be discussed like gentlemen

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I’m embarrassed to be a part of a discussion that includes you.

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Originally posted by gunmaker:
Just for fun, here's an excerpt from the SD big game regulations.


Deer and Antelope-Shoulder-held firearms using ammunition factory rated to produce at least 1,000 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, and handguns using ammunition that is factory rated to produce at least 500 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, may be used to hunt deer and antelope. Only softpoint or expanding bullets are permitted. - Most common center-fire rifle calibers meet the minimum standards. Among calibers NOT legal are: .17 Remington, .218 Bee, .22 Hornet, .25-20, .30 Carbine, .32-30, .38-40 and the .44-40


This means in a rifle I can shoot a 17 cal30 grain @4000FPS or a 25 gr @4250FPS. Sounds like I've got something to shoot for.

Or, I could put a pistol barrel 17 Remington Fireball on my extra Interarms miniX that I bought as an action only and shoot deer with it.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Just for fun, here's an excerpt from the SD big game regulations.


Deer and Antelope-Shoulder-held firearms using ammunition factory rated to produce at least 1,000 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, and handguns using ammunition that is factory rated to produce at least 500 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, may be used to hunt deer and antelope. Only softpoint or expanding bullets are permitted. - Most common center-fire rifle calibers meet the minimum standards. Among calibers NOT legal are: .17 Remington, .218 Bee, .22 Hornet, .25-20, .30 Carbine, .32-30, .38-40 and the .44-40


This means in a rifle I can shoot a 17 cal30 grain @4000FPS or a 25 gr @4250FPS. Sounds like I've got something to shoot for.

Or, I could put a pistol barrel 17 Remington Fireball on my extra Interarms miniX that I bought as an action only and shoot deer with it.