quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
A .204 cal 40 grain V-max has a BC of .297


And noslers webpage is down or something.. I cant get in

Oops I compared 40 grain .224 and not .204 40 grain. Single malt Scotch strikes again lol.

Both are awesome rounds. I have a 220 swift and a 204. I also have a 22-250.

Mainly, I use all for varmiting, p-dogs, yotes, crats, crows, etc...

My weapon of choice out to 450 yds is the 204. Only because I can see what I shoot, explode.
Big grin

I am on my third barrel for the 220 swift. That really bothers me.

I hope to have a couple thousand rounds through the 204 by spring.

Only about 1000 rounds at this point and it is still driving tacks.

As far as accuracy goes, both are awesome. 1 inch at 400 yards on a p-dog....Not concerned with either.

Make every shot count.

Jerry Eden: I will repeat with emphasis this time! If you give creedence to or believe anyone or any group of people that says the 204 Ruger cartridge is "no good" - then Jerry Eden you are even stupider than you sound!
Emphatically stupider than you sound!
Get some trigger time with this wonderful cartridge both at the range and in the game fields and then your penchant for "studidness" regarding the fine 204 Ruger WILL certainly subside!
Like sdgunslinger alludes to there Jerry Eden if you can't take it don't try to dish it out!
That is an old axiom that would have served many punks well had they the intelligence to abide it!
Perhaps you won't either?
Now Jerry - gather back and listen to someone that has a more open mind than you have and obviously a ton more field and range experience with the 220 Swift AND the 204 Ruger than you have!
Your outrageous and obviously inaccurate "blanket statement" regarding - and I will quote you - "the 220 Swift being as good as or better than any other sub 24 caliber Varmint cartridge"! Is just that outrageous, inaccurate and simply flies in the face of reality!
As far as better Varmint cartridges than the Swift I will just list ONE for now - the 204 Ruger!
It has the afore mentioned superior ballistics over the 220 Swift to begin with - again for you "slow learners Jerry" - these attributes include a flatter trajectory, better wind bucking ability (less wind drift!) and hits Varmints going faster out to even extended ranges (500 yards!) than does the Swift! Other attributes of the 204 Ruger ranking it ABOVE the 220 Swift, and that further blows your outrageous and inaccurate boast of the Swift out of the water are these wonderful and important attributes of the 204 Ruger! The 204 Ruger is amazingly efficient in achieving its ballistic superiority over the 220 Swift all the while having so little recoil that the Varmint shooter can actually watch the bullet strike! This is not an attribute the Swift has! The 204 Ruger can be shot in much longer strings of shots before the barrel becomes to hot for efficient and prudent use! And don't forget the Varminting interfering barrel heat that builds up so much quicker when using the Swift! Mirage free shooting is a condition that Varmint Hunters seek! By efficient I mean the barrel on the 204 stays cooler for many more shots than a 220 Swift when both are fired at a similar pace! I have a good friend that did ruin the barrel on his Remington 40 XB-KS in less than 1,800 rounds. He hunted Prairie Dogs with it and washed the barrel out when shooting it without letting it cool! I have a Remington 40 XB-KS in 220 Swift and dare not shoot it at the rate I shoot my various 204's! Longer barrel life is a fact of life that must be considered when the "thoughtful" person compares cartridges for the title of "best Varmint cartridge out there"!
You obviously did not choose to be "thoughtful" in your unfounded boast regarding the 220 Swift - that fact is apparent for sure!
"Stupider" again comes to mind when I see radical thoughlessness of this magnitude! And lets see oh a few more reasons the 220 Swift is surpassed by the 204 Ruger when it comes to comparisons - brass is about $10.00 a hundred cheaper (Midway Master Catalog 2,006 edition page 101 and 102) for the 204 compared to the 220 Swift! How about those barrel saving powder charge weights that are about 20 grains less in a 204 than in a 220 Swift! Money in these amounts does get my attention! But then again I am an open minded, thinking Varminter! Oh I could go on and on but I think your trap is full enough for now there Jerry Eden, and if you dare step in it (and that would be stupid!) I will spring it closed on you with more real life facts, figures and experiences!
No the 220 swift is not the best sub 24 caliber Varmint cartridge out there! Its a good caliber but it has its drawbacks, many of them in fact - and the 204 Ruger is clearly the superior Varmint cartridge in this comparison.
Now, here on the following point I have quite a bit of experience, again - having used the 220 Swift for so long but in my experience and in the experience of many shooters I know and trust the 204 Ruger has the edge in the accuracy department as well!
Now I agree that comparing accuracy amongst Rifles is fraught with subjectiveness and pitfalls - unless one is comparing similar Rifles, similar scopes and similar powers, similar quality bullets and under similar range conditions! I have done this - and I take no pleasure in declaring this fact to be quite evident! My 204 Rugers are more accurate than my 220 Swifts!
Its just that simple!
And my friends that have Swift as well as 204 Rifles agree with my conclusion.
The edge is clearly on the side of the 204 Ruger Rifles, here again!
The 204 Ruger is amazingly efficient, easily attaining superior trajectories and wind drift numbers over the Swift, the 204 has virtually no recoil in a typical Varmint Rifle certainly not enough to disturb the sight of my quarry in my scopes view, the 204 Ruger is more accurate, the 204 Ruger is much cheaper to buy ammo for or to load ammo for, brass life on the 204 Ruger is better than the 220 Swifts is, much smaller powder charges to get better ballistics with the 204 Ruger - its kind of a "no brainer" there Jerry Eden! He-he, no offense meant there Jerry by the way!
Do you want to edit your "outrageous and inaccurate" blanket statement there about the 220 Swift?
You are simply trying to speak about something you do not have the experience or knowledge to back up Jerry.
To bad that!
Again I will state for the record - I have several 220 Swifts and I personally do not plan on selling any of them to buy more 204's - but I am not under the delusion that the 220 Swift is superior to the 204 Ruger, because, it's not!
Long live the wonderful and amazing 204 Ruger!
Ooh... and Jerry - you should delete the other erroneous part of your posting there - the part where you declare that someone with more intelligence, experience and open mindedness than you have "is full of shit" with their unbiased opinions and statements of fact. You my fine feathered friend have been shown to be the one that IS "full of shit"!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

"...someone with more intelligence, experience and open mindedness than you have..." wouldn't state such a subjective opinion...

My .17 Remington beats the .204 ruger all to heck.
With .30gr Gold bullets from the woodchuck den, B.C. .270
I chronoed these at 3900fps with IMR4320.

.204 sighted at 250 yds with 32gr at 4225
400yds drop 10.87 drift 19.02

.17rem 30gr gold sighted at 250 yds
400yd drop 10.88 drift 15.32

TAKE THAT!

quote:

.204 sighted at 250 yds with 32gr at 4225
400yds drop 10.87 drift 19.02

.17rem 30gr gold sighted at 250 yds
400yd drop 10.88 drift 15.32

TAKE THAT!

Now run a more realistic load.

20 Caliber 40 Gr V-Max BC .275 MV 4100

More like Apples to Apples.

Hornady and Sierra give 3700 fps as a top velocity for 40 grain bullets in the 204. Where's pressure tested data showing these 3800 fps+ for 39/40 grain loads in the 204?

Same with Hodgdon. Hmmmm. Plenty of Swift 55 gr. loads at 3800+ in various manuals though. Nosler NBT's at .267. Velocities that are actually shown in pressure tested data to be max via three or more sources. Hows that for apples to apples?

FVA........not quite apples to apples. The 204 book loads are held to a very mild 55000 psi or so while the Swift is commonly loaded about as hot as the cases will stand , well over 60000 psi.

Some of the very fast Swift ballistics quoted on this thread are also well over book levels.

I have seen 220 swift 50 gr./4000 fps. and 55 gr./3800+ loads tested at a little over 53,000 cup while 40 gr./3700+ 204 loads are 56,000+ psi. I'm not sure how cup's and psi's correlate but I have chased enough internet velocities to pierce a few primers and loosen enough primer pockets to know that manufacture's load data is close to where max should be unless underloaded for weak actions. I doubt the 204's case is as strong as the swift's either which PSI'ratings take into consideration as well.
I could care less about the debate. For all intensive purposes they are twins trajectory wise.

If you could get a .20cal 40gr V-max to 3900, (not 4100 for cryin out loud)it would basically be a ballistic twin of the .17rem with 30gr golds except for a touch more energy, but for critters smaller than a yote, i like the .17 rem, just how much energy do ya need to kill a varmit?
might as well save yourself the recoil and blast.
The .204 would be a bit better for yote's,especially at range, perhaps.
But the .17 may be better if the hide is wanted.

17rem: Are you saying, for the record then, and for Jerry Edens information, that there in fact ARE better Varmint cartridges than the 220 Swift?
Are you saying there INDEED are Varmint cartridges that have better ballistics, less recoil, harm less fur, are more efficient, are more accurate, use much less powder and are easier to hit Varmints with than the Swift?
If so then 17rem, come on out and say it.
I know its true.
Long live the 204 Ruger (and the 17 Remington!)
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Rugeruser: If you are trying to convince anyone that "facts" are SUBJECTIVE then you have lost the argument even before you have begun.
Nor are "facts" OPINIONS! I base my conclusions on facts and extensive unbiased observations I have made while afield!
Another loss for the guy from down under!
Rugeruser are you saying, as well, AND FOR THE RECORD, "that the 220 Swift IS THE BEST VARMINT CARTRIDGE out there"???
Factually now Rugeruser, please do not opt to relay any "opinions" based solely on extensive experience afield and a lack of bias! Just your non-subjective facts.
Long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, you wrote:

"Rugeruser are you saying, as well, AND FOR THE RECORD, "that the 220 Swift IS THE BEST VARMINT CARTRIDGE out there"???"

Where did I say, or even imply that?

If you're talking 'facts', at least get your 'facts' right concerning my posts.

As to your comment:

"Factually now Rugeruser, please do not opt to relay any "opinions" based solely on extensive experience afield and a lack of bias! Just your non-subjective facts."

Would you mind clarifying that?

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
17rem: Are you saying, for the record then, and for Jerry Edens information, that there in fact ARE better Varmint cartridges than the 220 Swift?

Yes,there are.
The swift is indeed a great yote caliber at all ranges,especially the longer ranges.
But for all other vermin,the .22's would be my last choice, the .17's and .20's would proceed it.

17rem: Well said.
Coyotes ARE NOT the only Varmints out there, in fact I would guesstimate that 200 to 400 other types of Varmints are harvested for every Coyote that is taken with a small caliber Rifle.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

rugeruser: The snide and ambiguous posting you made led me to believe that there was a probability you thought the Swift "was the best Varmint cartridge ever"?
Thats why I had to try to make some sense out of your drivel of a posting there by posing my question!
I'll ask again!
Do you, rugeruser, believe that the 220 Swift is the best Varmint cartridge ever?
Its simple enough there rugeruser, just provide us with your background, history and experience with the 220 Swift AND with the 204 Ruger!
Feel free to include the number of Rifles in each caliber you have owned, used, and shot at the range and on Varmints as well as your conclusions on lethality, all around use on Varmints, ballistic impressions of each and I would be interested in your observations regarding the relative accuracy of Rifles in both calibers you have owned. You know, that sort of thing.
Or... make another snide, empty posting!
Long live the wonderful 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The problem i have with the .20 caliber is to me, it's neither fish nor fowl.
The .17 will do everything wind drift and trajectory wise that the .20's and .22's will do,but with less blast and recoil.
And if i ever needed more energy downrange than the .17 provided, and this would only occur if longer range yote hunting was on the agenda (which is basically never on my varmit huntin agenda)
I would opt for a .22 to get something much more substantial energy wise downrange,virtually doubling bullet weight.
For long range yotes. 22 cal.
For "everything" else .17 cal.
Just what is the .20 good for, and what purpose does it serve?

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
rugeruser: The snide and ambiguous posting you made led me to believe that there was a probability you thought the Swift "was the best Varmint cartridge ever"?
Thats why I had to try to make some sense out of your drivel of a posting there by posing my question!
I'll ask again!
Do you, rugeruser, believe that the 220 Swift is the best Varmint cartridge ever?
Its simple enough there rugeruser, just provide us with your background, history and experience with the 220 Swift AND with the 204 Ruger!
Feel free to include the number of Rifles in each caliber you have owned, used, and shot at the range and on Varmints as well as your conclusions on lethality, all around use on Varmints, ballistic impressions of each and I would be interested in your observations regarding the relative accuracy of Rifles in both calibers you have owned. You know, that sort of thing.
Or... make another snide, empty posting!
Long live the wonderful 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, with all due respect, I'm totally bored with your rantings.

Using ad hominem argument in your posts does nothing to help your cause.

Re-read your post, and then ask sensible questions.

Oh, and to give you a hint, I don't regard any particular cartridge as being the ultimate for anything... that should clear a few misconceptions up.

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
Tactical .20 beats them both with less powder.....hhhhmmmmmmmm....



IV

I will give you the 20 Tactical is marginally more efficient than the .204 but you had better recheck your ballistics data. The 20 Tactical is based upon the .223 Remington case and the .204 Ruger is based upon the .222 Remington Magnum case, which starts with a greater capacity. In addition, the .204 has a sharper shoulder angle than the 20 Tactical further increasing case capacity. If any cartridge is obsolete, it is the 20 Tactical as the .204 Ruger offers better performance in a factory chambering. Kind of the same scenario as the 17-223 vs. the 17 Remington except the 17-223 holds a very slight performance advantage over the 17 Remington.

Someone, quick, ask me if I really give a rat's a**?

If your all done I'll make my decision known.

OH MY GOSH! I think I'm gonna need some 100mph duct tape to keep my head from exploding if this topic gets to the top of the page again! This horse has been beat sooooo badly it doesn't even look like a horse anymore. Who gives a crap, its pointless, just shoot what you like and shoot it often for pitty sakes. Ok I feel better now

Awwww....

C'mon guys,

Varmint Guy was just getting warmed up!!!

Gee.. beats TV, and I've loaded as much ammo as I'm gunna need for the next few months!!

A man's gotta have a hobby

Was just having a look at the longrangehunting forum . Guy there was looking for load suggestions for a new Swift . Someone suggested H414 and he took their advice .First couple of groups were in the mid 1's with the 40 gn Nosler at 4100 FPS .
Obviously a bloody useless varmint rifle . Ought to toss it and buy a .204 because they're so much more accurate . Guess the barrel must be near worn out after those 2 groups anyway .

Bushchook: its not that the Swift isnt accurate, its the fact that the 204 uses some 20(+) grains less than the Swift, and gets within 1-200 fps of the swift.

Hell, 20 grains less is a looong day in the field. 1-200 fps is not much when the BC of the 40 grain 204 cal bullet is higher than a 22cal 40 grainer. It will catch up with it eventually.

The Swift is not the speed king. Neither is it a barrel friendly load. A 223AI with 40 grain moly bullets gets 4000fps with 30 grains of powder.

But give the swift a fast twist barrel, high BC bullets, and see chucks fly at 800 yards. Now that is something! At close range, less is more.

In seven pages of postings, I don't think I have chimed in yet but here goes!!!
17REM: The 30 grain pills you speak so highly of in the 17 need a CUSTOM BARREL to do the deal you speak of!! Nobody is turning out fast twist 17Remington factory chambered rifles!! The .204's on the other hand are being offered by pretty much all the regular makers at prices that the average varmint shooter can aquire and have a helluva lot of fun with!! Am I dissing the 17REM????NO!!! I will never froget the first crow I shot with a 17 Remington and a 25 grain factory load back in 1977 with that chambering at 155 yards.......absolute black feather explosion!!! In it's factory offering with the slower twist barrels and the 20 and 25 grain bullets, it PALES in comparison to the .204's with their FACTORY loadings!!!
Original question.....204 vs 220 Swift.....will only go as far as to say that if I wanted a speed demon 22 caliber it would be the 22-250!!! But in the essence of being a bit conservative when it comes to 22 calibers, I still prefer the 222MAGNUM which is totally underrated and passed over to the point of being relegated to the "obsolete" catagory!! GHD

The 30gr Gold bullets shoot great in the rem factory BDL, 1-9" twist.
That is a fast twist, no need for a custom bbl.

.204 and .220 Swift both excellent in their own right, but they are not really in the same class IMHO. If you want to compare the .220 Sift, compare it to a newer,more efficient, better cartridge, the .223 WSSM. I am certain my post will get a lot of negative replies because of the RUMORS about the .223 WSSM SUPPOSED troubles.
NowI am not suggesting you get rid of your trusty 22-250 or .220 swift, both are outstanding calibers. I am jsut tired of people dissing the .223 WSSM becasue they feel threatened by the new chambering.
(sorry, got off subject a little)
I do not have personal experience with the .204 orthe.220 swift, but a friend of mine that is and EXCELLENT marksman (and an accuracy NUT!) had a .220 swift, got rid of it because fo accuray issues (would not shoot less than 1" @100 yds)but LOVES his new .204. Accurate and fast...watched him take a 'yote at 400+ yards off the mirrir of his truck....

Rugeruser: For the record - I could care less what you are tired of!
Answer the question or admit that you are snide and ambiguous.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Amazing! I check back in here during the last few days after being away for a while, and the first thing I come across is right smack in the middle of another VarmintGirl forum war. What a dope she is!

And she's about the biggest lair on the Internet. Now, that's not fact, just my opinion.

This fun...

VG, if you don't care what I think, why are you asking me to respond?

Long live the 221 Fireball!!

Rugeruser: What you think and what you are tired of are two different things!
Don't get tired - get a pair!
Answer the direct question or revert to all snide all the time like you busom buddy R. Walter!
If there was a pair of balls between the two of you I would be surprised. He-he!
Answer the question if you can?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

No doubt the .204 Ruger is a new generation round and as such will have people who like it and people who don't much the way the Swift was greeted back in it's day.I've never shot the .204 but my cousin has one in a cooper and says he likes it.I own a Swift and it serves me nicely and i see no reason to change but the varmints around here don't like it.I've never had problems with barrel burning but i don't pack my cases full of powder either and any small caliber will wash out a barrel if you load the shit out of it.

VG, let's admit it... you and I are just stirring the pot... aren't we?

Either that, or you have a serious problem with 'written comprehension'.

Re-read my posts (I typed them slowly so you might get a chance to understand them) if it helps...

Long live the 221 Fireball!!

Hey fella's I haven't had this much fun since I flicked (that's flicked) my ex....

Dateline Omaha
Abe Blatz

The bizarre case of the Morgue "Twice Baked" murder case has police baffled. The decedents, previously dead from stroke, heart attacks and runaway 'rhoids, were killed again in a philosophical regurgitation...possibly proving the ballistic superiority of the .204 Ruger. Or the .220 Swift. Or something. Investigators remain clueless, much as the victims themselves. It was noted however that two of the victims broke wind, 4 held into it, the remaining ones signing thru mediums....

Can we make 8 pages??????

Sure.. Ill try. For all you 204 guys out there. Try a 20 Practical. Very simple, use standard 223 dies with a .230" bushing to neck down your .223 brass to 20 cal.

4200 fps with a 32 grain V-max. It almost identical to the 20 Tac, but without the expensive dies, fireforming etc etc...

Page: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek061.html


Lapua brass anyone?

I'm very serious...I just got back from Africa where I used the 204 Ruger exclusively on 247 elephants and close to 3600 cape buffalo.

All at ranges of 700 to 1000 yards, all shot in the butt, all instantaneous one shot kills.

I quit shooting plains game with the 204 because there was nothing left but a few bits of hair and horn of the numerous eland, kudu, wildebeest and various other assorted antelope.

I was shooting the plains game at an average range of 1500 yards with open sights. No wind drift, no adjustments to my open sights as the 204 is dead on from 1 yard to just over 8 miles, which is the farthest I shot any animal; a trophy dikdik which tipped the scales at 12 lbs and right at 15 inches at the shoulder. Like I said a real trophy and well worth an 8 mile shot.

The 204 really is magic as you can tell!