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Originally posted by gbax:
Frankly Andrew - If your accuser doesn't have the decency to come on and back up his claims (which you have more than answered) then I would insist that Saeed remove this thread.

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Not to speak for Andrew, but if I were in his shoes, I would not want a thread with that title on Accurate Reloading.

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Originally posted by Badger Matt:

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Not to speak for Andrew, but if I were in his shoes, I would not want a thread with that title on Accurate Reloading.

Not to argue, but I like that very little on AR.com gets censored.

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Originally posted by Lhook7:

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Originally posted by Badger Matt:

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Not to speak for Andrew, but if I were in his shoes, I would not want a thread with that title on Accurate Reloading.

Not to argue, but I like that very little on AR.com gets censored.

Agreed, everyone has the right to prove themselves an idiot as pigslayer has done here. If anyone reads this it is a good advertisement for Andrew.

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Reading between the lines, this hunter bought a "no frills" "pay by the drink" hunt on the specific condition that he picked up the actual cost of gas, incidentals, trophy fees, and probably liquor as well; and that Andrew was going to do some hunting himself. Then when he got there, he objected to paying for gas, incidentals, booze and trophy fees etc.

Here are my specific comments:

1. andie couldn't provide me with a trophy list(this is not believable and Andrew has addressed it .. however there may be a grain of truth to it as every landowner has his own price list and there may have been some changes of venue or species at the last minute at the request of the client for which Andrew could not provide the info)
2. his daily rates were abnormally low. he was calling this a buddy hunt. (yes, this is entirely probable ... Andrew does offer this type of hunt but he is not deceptive about the "terms and conditions" ... he states up front WHY the daily rates are low, mostly because he is hunting, because gas is not included, and because only beer is provided)
3. he didn't want me to bring a copy of the remuneration agreement to africa (aha ... the client admits a remuneration agreement ie contract existed and likely spelled everything out including trophy fees in typical Andrew fashion, he is a stickler for this sort of detail, and in fact it's required by SA law... he may have said it's not necessary to bring your copy I have one here ... but in any case the client is an adult and he can bring whatever he wants with him)
4. the trophy fees were to be paid in rands. i offered to bring rands and he said no to bring U.S. dollars. (it's normal to pay landowners in rands when on a 'resident' style hunt ... Andrew was probably trying to make the client's life easier by offering to change the money in SA .. nothing sinister here, USD are useless in the Free State believe me).
5. he claimed he would pay the exchange rates (this does not make sense, you don't "pay" the exchange rate, you change money AT the exchange rate, it sounds like the client had never set foot out of the US before).
6. i was to pay the farmers directly for trophy fees. (and lucky for you Andrew was honest about this ... most SA outfitters pay the landowner in Rands and mark the trophies up 2-4x in USD terms)
7. i had to ask him twice if i needed to crawl on my knees to hunt. it was explained that i couldn't crawland risked debilitating pain if i did so. he avoided my question. i asked a second time if i had to crawl. this time he said simply to "buy the plane ticket" with a tone that he was well aware of my knee issues , which he was. this was after further research revealed his hunters do an abnormal amount of crawling. he knew this would've been a deal breaker if he answered honestly. (this is silliness ... some hunters are in frickin wheel chairs and the PH makes it work. If you don't want to crawl, or can't crawl, the PH is not going to force you to crawl.)
8. he repeatedly couldn't answer mt questions as to trophy fees (I suppose that depends on what the questions were ... did the client read his remuneration agreement? Or the emails that Andrew clearly provided? You pulled the trigger pal, not Andrew).
9.he refused to answer my question regarding taxidermists (again depends on the question asked ... there is no reason for a PH not to answer and if he didn't answer, it's entirely possible it was a stupid question, or he honestly did not know the answer. The bottom line is the client chooses the taxidermist and he is free to address his questions to the chosen taxidermist.)

I have hunted with Andrew and my clients have hunted with him as well. He is a little different than the normal SA operation in some respects. For example, he thoroughly enjoys hunting esp bird hunting, so he participates. He tells you this upfront and the quid pro quo is the hunt is discounted to reflect the fact that he is not standing next to you handing you fresh shells. On the contrary, he may be blasting away himself. He is sensitive to costs and his preferred "business model" is to offer a low daily rate and then to charge for booze and gas, the consumption of both is not entirely within his control particularly on a hunt where the client wants species that require a lot of driving, and/or the client likes his liquor. His home base camp is also a little different. It's more of a "locals" hunting camp than an upmarket camp aimed at wealthy foreigners (and their wives). There is a dorm room with 8 beds and a shared bath, plus an outside shower. Meals are taken around the fire, home cooked by Celia who is a bit shy but a delightful person and an excellent cook.
And the area is classic Free State ... think "Dances with Wolves" .. flat and grassy. That's not to say it's not Africa. For Africa is a diverse place. His main stock in trade is bird hunts with limited PG (on his home base) and this is an excellent area for birds (pigeons, guineas, and waterfowl). You also find Steenbok, Duiker, Blesbok and Springbok in these open grasslands, with the odd Warthog and some night critters. You hunt on working low fenced farms around Mervilla, Andrew has access to a vast number of them. Of course, you can also hunt other areas as this hunter did. That means driving between areas, long distances in some cases. Hence the gas money matter.

He complains that Andrew didn't want him to shoot a particular Steenbok. Many farmers in this area do not like you to shoot their Steenbok and Duiker, so it's entirely possible that Andrew would not let the client shoot a Steenbok on a particular property because the landowner did not offer that species, and he made a joke about meat to soften the message, which the client then chose to misinterpret.

I suspect this was just another case of buyer's remorse ... exacerbated by the client getting into something he could not really afford in the first place, buying the cheapest hunt he could find, and not wanting to live up to his end of the bargain eg paying for gas. Land Cruisers guzzle diesel, and SA diesel is expensive in rands and dollars. The client convinced himself that Andrew was a crook before he got on the plane, and then interpreted every aspect of the hunt from this viewpoint. It's called paranioa, I believe.

This whole thread reminds me of those people who fly Spirit Airlines to get a $125 ticket on a $500 route and then act like they were mugged when they have to pay for their three pieces of checked luggage.

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Originally posted by jdollar:
just when we hoped he had fallen down an outhouse and drowned- HE'S BACK

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Originally posted by jdollar:
just when we hoped he had fallen down an outhouse and drowned- HE'S BACK

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Originally posted by Lhook7:

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Originally posted by jdollar:
just when we hoped he had fallen down an outhouse and drowned- HE'S BACK

In order to fall through and drown one would have to be smart enough to cut a hole. I get the feeling that this guy is sitting on top of a bunch of rapidly cooling 2x4s wondering what stinks.

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Originally posted by emron:
I AM BOOKING WITH ANDREW FOR 2014 JUST BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD. THE MAN IS A PRINCE, AND DOESNT DESERVE THIS. AND I HAVE NEVER MET HIM.

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Originally posted by jdollar:
just when we hoped he had fallen down an outhouse and drowned- HE'S BACK

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Originally posted by jens poulsen:
Hey Andrew...!

See you in September

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Originally posted by impala#03:
Isn't it odd that everything about Pigslayer's hunt with Andrew went or was bad. Now everything about Karl Human Taxidermy has gone bad too??

Kinda looks like a pattern to me.

Just saying,,,,,,,,

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Originally posted by impala#03:
Isn't it odd that everything about Pigslayer's hunt with Andrew went or was bad. Now everything about Karl Human Taxidermy has gone bad too??

Kinda looks like a pattern to me.

Just saying,,,,,,,,

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Originally posted by impala#03:
Isn't it odd that everything about Pigslayer's hunt with Andrew went or was bad. Now everything about Karl Human Taxidermy has gone bad too??

Kinda looks like a pattern to me.

Just saying,,,,,,,,

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Pigslayer i think the malaria medisine you took went to Your head the bad way!this is the most idiotic history i have heard!!Sorry Andrew that you have to del With a nutcase like this...