The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Hunting Reports - Africa ANDREW MCLAREN'S UNETHICAL AND FRAUDULENT SAFARISGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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russ gould obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. If u want missing trophies,stolen trophies,crap mounts or replacement minature trophies .....use KARL HUMAN TAXIDERMY in east london, south africa. | |||
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as soon as i opened the AR hunting report forum, i smelled pig shit. now i know why...... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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i don't have a problem with answering questions in the order that questions were placed. with that statement we'll begin with my research before you contacted me. my original post looking for a " different " experience" from the usual package hunt. i didn't ask about your credentials , but needs answered next . if your not legally licensed to outfit in the northwest province then really anything else you claim has no credibility. research : 1. you implied you owned land. how much do you own and where ? 2. by your many postings regarding "legalities", you give one the impression you wrote the law. do you consider yourself well aware of rules,regulations and the law in general ? credentials: 1. were you licensed to outfit and guide in the northwest province in the years 2011 and 2012 ? i included 2011 as you outfitted another client there previously and he reported it in the forum and was input in my research. when these questions are answered we'll move on to my solicitation for a different hunting experience and will exchange all pertinent questions in the order asked. trial by internet ! now thats a laugh ! where will we get the jurors ? surely u jest here. all i heard was name them....name them....ohhhh...name them. when i did knickers were moistened and their brutha was named. right now south africas regulating body and the dept of tourism is on display. they will govern the ...trial. If u want missing trophies,stolen trophies,crap mounts or replacement minature trophies .....use KARL HUMAN TAXIDERMY in east london, south africa. | |||
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surely somebody besides myself has seen andrews post on claiming land. it's been a couple days since i posted that info. if the tip of the iceberg can't be confirmed by any members of this forum, whats the point ? nobody man or woman enough to post the truth. just trying to cover it all up ? If u want missing trophies,stolen trophies,crap mounts or replacement minature trophies .....use KARL HUMAN TAXIDERMY in east london, south africa. | |||
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I WISH TO THANK ALL OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN OUTFITTERS WHO CONTACTED ME PRIVATELY ON THIS OR OTHER FORUMS. TO INCLUDE EMAILS. your advice,opinions,apologies and condolences are well received. all are welcomed to contact me privately. as i stated to some of you privately ,this report is just not for mclarens prospect clients to digest. it's in support of deserving outfitters who are honest and hardworking. hunts like the one i endured hurt the entire hunting industry. i shudder to think of the money lost to hunts not taken due to fraudulent activity. from a clients perspective , how many excellent experiences are never embarked on ? i salute the outfitters who provide hunters with the trip of a lifetime. honesty trumps ! If u want missing trophies,stolen trophies,crap mounts or replacement minature trophies .....use KARL HUMAN TAXIDERMY in east london, south africa. | |||
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to those of you who booked hunts to try and spite me. you spit in the face of hardworking, honest legitimate outfitters to support a fraud. If u want missing trophies,stolen trophies,crap mounts or replacement minature trophies .....use KARL HUMAN TAXIDERMY in east london, south africa. | |||
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pigslayer, Regardless whether any of your accusations are true, you are not giving yourself any credibility by hiding behind a stage name. Why don't you give us your real name, and your full experience with Andrew, plus all your hunting experience. So far all I have seen is un-substantiated accusations. | |||
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Saeed, The ironic part of this is that Andrew has the guy's full name, passport No., address, home telephone etc. in his hunting register. Not posting the info, despite the apparent use of proxy servers, surly speaks well of a supposedly "unethical outfitter". | |||
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My dear Mr. pigslayer, On 7th November 2013 I posted a very clear acceptance to your [implied] challenge to evaluate the “hunt” that you experienced with me in 2012 through, what I called then, and still do, a “Trail by Internet”. I did however make that acceptance subject to you agreeing to “play to some rules”, and proposed some very basic rules. I also invited you to suggest modifications to my proposed rules, or even that you suggest your own rules for my consideration. You were again reminded about the conditional nature of my acceptance of your challenge on 13th March 2014. Specifically I then said: “[Please do not regard this in any way as a reply to your new posting, I'm merely DEMANDING that you first make a clear reply to my posting of 07/11/2013!]” Now, at in your much delayed response “posted 17 March 2014 05:37” you quote my posting of 13th March 2014 and give some vague acceptance of my rules and insert a reference to “in the order that questions were placed”. You then have the audacity to proceed to place a number of questions to me! You have every right to expect me to reply to those questions, and I will. In due course! Do you comprehend the sentence that I have quoted – with additional emphasis on the word “clear” - from my posting on 13th March 2014? Do you at all understand what is meant by a “clear reply”? But, for now, I will accept that all people who speak English as first language do not have a good comprehension of the written language and regard your statement as not having problems to answering questions as an acceptance of my proposed rules. Let me remind you of a few facts: 1. In the first (or one of the first?) email message that you sent to me after your return to USA you very clearly accused me of “cheating” you. To this I reacted in an email message sent in reply, asking you to, with reference to the specific Excel cell in the “final hunt cost spreadsheet” that I gave to you tell me, (i) In which cell is there an “inflated” cost (cheating), and (ii) what do you claim that cost should be? I do still now believe that these two were really the “first questions” that were asked in our, let me at this point just call it a, misunderstanding. If your own recently posted ‘rule’ of replying to questions in the order they are/were asked is to hold, I say that these two questions needs to be replied to first. 2. I now remind you that, instead of just replying to my basic question of: “Where did I cheat you?”, that was really a very softly worded and courteous invitation to: ”Let’s sit down together and [proverbially sit down and discuss via e-mails] discuss this misunderstanding like adults and try to resolve the issue!” Instead of some civil reply, you sent me the most disgusting e-mail message that I have to date received from anyone. You literally strung together strings of abusive names aimed at insulting myself and my wife. 3. You, being totally unable to in any way substantiate your accusation that I cheated you – because the fact of the matter is that I’ve NOT CHEATED you – then, what I can only describe as, “declared a war” on me. Why do you wish to harm me and my wife? Is your desire to harm me rooted in my exposing the falseness of you accusation that I’ve cheated you? 4. You seem to have totally forgotten the fact that you enquired about and desired a specific type of low cost hunt. I did offer a low cost hunt. You shot a large number of trophies at low cost and [by my assessment] had a successful low cost hunt. You now have your trophies at home. All in all, for the money that you actually spent, I believe that you had been provided with a very good hunt. But that is just my assessment of your hunt. An assessment that does not really differ from what many of my past clients have made at the end of their hunts with me. An assessment that is also at least very similar to what you have posted on posted here on AR on 09 July 2012 08:33. I wish to make the following point very clear, so that Mr. pigslayer has no excuse of not fully understanding it: I have accepted pigslayer’s implied challenge to a trail by Internet and actually challenged him! I intend to, question by question, expose him as a liar! Naturally pigslayer will try to draw all manner of red herrings to mislead and confuse the issues, but, if he just answers my questions he will be exposed as a liar of note. As an example of this I will just draw the AR member’s attention to how he replied to my clearly stated DEMAND – yes, I too may use capital letters to shout - he give a clear reply. So I’ll repeat my question again: Mr pigslayer are you prepared to fully respond to a clearly asked question? I will give you an example of what I regard as a clearly asked question: In my posting on posted 01 December 2013 14:02 in this same thread, I gave some alternative views about some of the “facts” on which you have based your “pre-hunt” assessment of me. Please show the AR Members that you can actually comprehend written English by replying to that particular posting in this thread. Just to show that I’m not attempting to be nasty, I’ll explain that I’ve actually called you a liar in this posting. Please respond and prove that you have in fact not lied! Looking forward to your response in which you restrict yourself to just what I have asked about, without adding vague and unfounded accusations about my conduct. Don’t change the subject, just answer the question! Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Last year pigslayer posted the following: "...saeed, yes your correct. just in a bad mood when I posted. it's a shame when you have a conversation about your hunt and it's the worst experience of your life. the issue will be shared with the world. due process is running and I must give the authorities their space and time. going public is a must to help prevent others from unwittingly booking a fraudulent hunt. it's a black eye on the hunting industry and hurts clients, outfitters, staff, taxidermists,...etc. ,just too many to name in the overall scheme of things. I certainly believe it hurts conservation efforts that we all pride ourselves for supporting..." Has there been any development from the authorities? | |||
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Pigslayer, any man that can say the worst experience of his life was an African hunting safari is a very lucky man indeed so perhaps you should count your blessings. However, putting that aside for a moment: Perhaps you could tell us how much you paid in daily rates and trophy fees and also the length of your hunt and what animals you took please? | |||
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Mr. Pigslayer: Where do you come from? It is very difficult to understand you. Oh - you dont answer questions. Dear Andrew and Cecilia: Looking forward to see you in May Best wishes Leo Enggaard .500 DR SS H&H BPE .470 NE DR SS KRIEGHOFF .405 win DR SS .378 Wea mag .300 Wea mag .270 Wea mag .257 Wea mag 12/70 H&H Royal | |||
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The countdown is getting short!  Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Saeed is correct in that Pigslayer should come out from hiding and post his name. If not, Andrew, why don't you? You didn't refer to him as "Pigslayer" in your communications and in camp. He has slandered you and you owe him nothing as he has not put forth his complaint in a gentlemanly manner. Print the bastard's name for all to see and let the wind be taken from his anonymous sails. Cheers, Cal PS. Andrew, can you post the letter of Pigslayer in #2 of your above post? It will shed some additional light on his mannerisms and personality. _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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+1 I have been told by many outfitters world wide that their problems come from the less expensive hunts that they sell from time to time. Seems that may be the case here. | |||
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After all of this slinging, I think it would be quit appropriate for Andrew to post is name. That will end it as he is not even capable of responding when using his Nom de Plum. He definately will dry up once his real name is exposed. Jeff | |||
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Is that a promise?  | |||
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It seems Andrew is a class guy,a gentleman and been in the business 40 odd years. I believe this will be the reason he will not reveal the identy of pigslayer. I would support his decision either way! | |||
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On a slightly controversial note, Pigslayer is one good reason to introduce Gun control in the US. It would remove idiots from such forums. | |||
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Surely you meant birth control, not gun control MCT? Dutch | |||
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  True.jc | |||
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I am all for birth control. And it should not be a human right to breed and spread your genes. Some genes make the gene pool dirty. I specially have problems with anonymous slanders. | |||
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Retro-active birth control! . | |||
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You know the really sad part about these internet whizzing contests is that everyone gets a little on them. I don't know pig skinner in any way, but I also don't know Andrew. Therefore its just makes more sense for me to simply avoid them both. Sadly these forums do serve one purpose with regard to hunting reports. If anyone ever questions your operation or posts negative comments you are off the list of potential outfitters and PHs. Unless I have personal knowledge of your credibility your name in a forum post with any negative comment simply crosses you off the list. There are just too many good businesses out there to ever take the chance on one that may or may not be any good. Macs B U.S. Army Retired Alles gut! | |||
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This is the list I currently maintain. Right wrong or not it is what it is. Originally posted on another website, by another member, I've adapted it for my own use. I'm working up something similar from these forums as well. In retrospect I hope I don't run out of outfitters. After thinking about it, this is my list, it was never meant to be a negative statement about anyone. I'll use it as i please, if you'd like a copy of my list I'll send it to you, but I'm going to pull it off the posting here. Macs B U.S. Army Retired Alles gut! | |||
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Could I ask where this list was obtained? Some are well known names (and not in a good way), others,I have never heard of. | |||
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Please Steve, and all my other friends, do NOT let pigslayer dry up! He must first respond to my posting in which I clearly and directly call him a liar! Then, those who know who he is in real life are free to expose his real name and address, e-mail and telephone number. But, please, do not now reveal his identity, I wish to first finish exposing him, and proving the truth of my exposure,as a liar! Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Larry this list was compiled originally by a member of a popular African hunting website. He originally posted this as a "how to" for due diligence regarding hunting reports. Compiled by utilizing search words to find key phrases in hunting forum text these outfitters were all identified as not necessarily "bad" per say such as in a bad hunt report but associated with certain phrases, be it "put and take", "controversy". You get the idea? I liked the idea and plagiarized the list for my own uses as described. I have added to it with information from other web sites. Macs B U.S. Army Retired Alles gut! | |||
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Adam Clements and Sullivan? Probably had more good hunt reports than you have had hot dinners. Add me to your list cause I talk loud. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Fairgame, I questioned Sullivan's inclusion on this list when it was originally constructed. He is controversial but I've never known anyone to accuse him of bad dealings. Remember the purpose of the list was to demonstrate what you can find by doing a little due diligence on your own. Certain key words in searches hit Mark Sullivan, specifically the term "controversial". The same for Adam Clements, nothing overtly bad, just a hit based on key word searches. That alone does not make them a risky investment. Key word searches that bring up links to bad reports you may have missed might well save you a ton of aggravation. I am not saying that anyone on this list is a good or a bad hunter. I have not dealt with any of them personally. I am saying that I would research someone very thoroughly if they were on anyone's list especially mine. I also will avoid anyone who gets a bad report in general, just because there are so many outfitters to choose from there really is no need to take the risk on someone who may be having a hard patch of luck in their business. Incidentally I've never heard anything bad about Royal Kafue LTD. Talking loud is a sign of having spent to much time near large bores making loud noises! Cheers Macs B U.S. Army Retired Alles gut! | |||
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Is this the same African hunting site where Bushwack Safaris advertises and any post pointing out his disgusting business practices is deleted? ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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LHook7, No idea on that one, if Saede has no objection to posting the name, the site is Africahunting.com. The list was posted on the forums of that site, not made by the site. Macs B U.S. Army Retired Alles gut! | |||
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Mac, Yes, that is the site. I would be very suspect of a commercial site that protects Bushwack, but posts such a list of non-sponsors. I also want to be clear, from one dog face to another, that I am in no way intending to insult you. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Im afraid that list is bullshit. There is no correlation between those outfitters. You have the worst scum together with some of the best in our industry. Anyone who can put Juan Pace, Dawie Groenewald on the same list as Mark Sullivan and Adam Clements doesnt know what they are talking about. Jerome the founder of Africa Hunting is a great guy, but he has let some first class asses with nothing but armchair experience run the show. This list is nothing more than a list of names that someone has a personal problem with and has nothing to do with business practices. There are for sure some very unsavory characters there, but for the most part there are some innocent folk being drawn and quartered along with the scum of the hunting industry based on nothing more than "internet search terms". Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I was wondering if this would be a good time to ask if a 45-70 is enough for cape buffalo, and should I bring a lever action for a DG hunt?  Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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Given the fact that he deletes anything negative about Bushwack I see the list as nothing more than people who refused to put money in his pocket. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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+1  And this is exactly the problem , this list is read by a lot of people and its out there permanently now. Now you have a bunch of people who will always remember Adam Clements name for example thrown in the same swirl as the scum. And the person who posted this list in the first place takes no responsibility for the potential harm he causes good people. We have to make very sure of our facts before we start bashing people on the forums. Its out there forever. | |||
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To list Adam Clements and Mark Sullivian in the same list with some of these guys (Juan Pace, Dawie Groenewald) is just plain ridiculus. EVERY Outfitter will have a unhappy client every once in while. Doesn't mean it's always their fault. Some people are just not meant to be happy.... Not to talk about those who arrive with wrong expencations because some agent told them bullshit. | |||
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There is no short cut to finding the right outfitter specifically suited to your needs, lists are useless at best misleading most of the time. I have had 2 very good Safaris but very different in character. The first time I accompanied a friend who has known this outfitter for 30+ years and is a close friend. This particular outfitter mainly caters for the American market and top end. I dont think i could have had a better introduction. Everything was extremely organised I could have wanted for nothing. Canapes presented within 3 minutes of arriving back to camp. BUT I could not entirely relax seeing my PH working so hard. Then I accompanied a friend of mine to hunt with Andrew McLaren. The hunt was much more informal. Andrew is a passionate hunter. He made sure that we were hunting morning noon and night. Shooting sand grouse over GSP's, red-billed teal off a salt pan, guinea fowl mountain hyax and caracal were unplanned for extras. I felt embedded in their community. It was exciting to appreciate the local community at work. Neighbours, aware of the fact that Andrew had guests would phone to say what they had seen and where to go. They would pop down for a chat. Andrew gave me one of my best stalks ever. I first saw a Mountain reedbuck on top of a 1700 ft high cliff face silhouetted against the sky. The dawn sun had just picked it out. I was in complete darkness with my trousers around my ankles when I saw it. Some 3hrs later and following a warning from Andrew "Wait you've got buck fever" a few minutes later I have my reedbuck! Cecilia's cooking is always something to look forward to. Getting back to the idea of lists being the sole means of determining who to choose and who not. Why not read accounts of past posts with the Outfitter concerned. Look at our hunt posted 04/09/10 by Lincsstalker I'm the happy tubby one with glasses! As there are poor outfitters there are dreadful clients. I am sure that many of you will agree that the client must bear some of the responsibility if things do not turn out how they would wish for. My first PH retold a story of the time he took out a client (early on in his career as a PH) and gave him a prestigious hunt. When the time came to pay the client shot himself! | |||
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