THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM BIG BORE FORUMS

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    416, 458, 470, and 500 AR - the line of AR rounds - dialup warning
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 24

Moderators: jeffeosso
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
416, 458, 470, and 500 AR - the line of AR rounds - dialup warning Login/Join
 
one of us
Picture of 470 Mbogo
posted Hide Post
Hi Jeff,
After looking at Paul's photos of the Ultra Mag case holding the .475 bullet the headspaceing shoulder looks almost non exsistent. I tried taking the 470 Mbogo up to .510 and ran into the same situation but not quite as fine. I thought it was unreliable at that point. What do you think of it. You may have to blow the case out some what to increase the shoulder dimension allowing you a larger headspace dimension. I haven't really looked at the case taper yet but keep it to .005 per inch for trliable extraction. The 416 sounds the most interesting to me. See you in a month.
Take good care,
Dave
 
Posts: 1247 | Location: Sechelt B.C. | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of Paul H
posted Hide Post
I just ran the calipers on the dummy, measures an rch under 0.520" at the shoulder and 0.500" at the neck. If we go .005" per inch with a .550" casehead, that is a nominal 0.540" at the shoulder. Like I've said many times before, not much to shoulder on. It is the primary compromise involved in the design of this round. That said, and attentive handloader will have no issues with headspace, and an easy .475" 500 gr @ 2200 fps, the perfect solution to the 7 mag problem Big Grin


__________________________________________________
The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Paul,
thanks tons!! I think that .040 will be enough.. that .020 per side.. while belted, that even more than the 470 capstick (.033). I know it's different on the angle vs a square stop.

well, i'll try it anyway!!

Dave,
you are right, if it was .020, it would be ~7 sheets of paper total...

I think it's about max for the case.. and I also think, with fireforming (pistol powder and cornermeal) you won't see alot of case loss.

die setup will be important..

On the 404 AR.. those .423 bullets run a buck each.. while hornadys can be gotten, though on blem special, for 25 cents..and ~50cents normally. and there's a better .416 bullet selection, though woodleigh soft and solids are never a bad choice.

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
dumb question...looking at the "smart round" will you be able to do a .510 or .505 dia. bullet for a semi straight wall case? not that you need the extra dia. bewildered it could be called the 500ar-max


? i know i need that tool jeffeosso and this might be an uneducated question but thought i would ask sofa


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BusMaster007
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
quote:
When I look at the difference in the names:
.470 AR
.475 AR


.470 AR denotes a .475 bullet, and .475 AR would denote a .483 or larger bullet.

jeffe


You lost me on this one.
How does that figure, and what do the other 'calibers' designate for a bullet?

I know cartridge naming is a weird science, but I'm just wondering at how you arrived at these vs. others.
( .375 = ? ; .416 = ? ; etc. )
Thanks.


____________________________________________
Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"?
"...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..."
Former FFL Dealer
NAHC Life Member
NRA Endowment/Life Member
Remington Society of America Member
Hunter in Training
 
Posts: 750 | Location: Upper Left Coast | Registered: 19 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
BM007,
The reason it is named a 470 AR and would fire a 475 projectile is that British tradition is all "470" cartridges for 475 bullets and all "475" cartridges fire 483 bulltets.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
its more art than science...there is not a lot of rationality in weapons...if there is i want it to be rationed...i dont want a lib to pass laws against me having certain guns because it is not "rational" art is not rational...lets pass laws against the national endowment for the arts...this country can go on without art but not arms as a well armed populace is a deterant against tyrany.

hijack

sorry for the rant. it wont make sense except for the precedent thumb


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BusMaster007
posted Hide Post
OK, thanks for the explanation.
Why is British Tradition being used to name this cartridge?


____________________________________________
Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"?
"...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..."
Former FFL Dealer
NAHC Life Member
NRA Endowment/Life Member
Remington Society of America Member
Hunter in Training
 
Posts: 750 | Location: Upper Left Coast | Registered: 19 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
just precedent...they labled it first, kinda like claiming land...you get to name it. thumb

its just nomenclature...you just have to know what it means.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BusMaster007
posted Hide Post
I thought it was something like that.

I also figured one of you guys would come back with, "...because, it's TRADITIONAL...!" Big Grin


____________________________________________
Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"?
"...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..."
Former FFL Dealer
NAHC Life Member
NRA Endowment/Life Member
Remington Society of America Member
Hunter in Training
 
Posts: 750 | Location: Upper Left Coast | Registered: 19 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Bent Fossdal
posted Hide Post
I think this whole line of cartridges is a grand idea, jeffe, but imo that neck is awfully short. It really does not look very well. But, I'm sure it will work as intended and make a lot of people happy!


Bent Fossdal
Reiso
5685 Uggdal
Norway

 
Posts: 1707 | Location: Norway | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
No shoulder, no taper, and rebated rim??? 470 AR???

470 Anti-Rifle: misfires often (no headspace reliability), feeds unreliably (rebated rim and minimum body taper), extracts poorly (no body taper).

The Anti's will love it! A worse nightmare than the .585 Nyati.

This makes the .423 Dakota-Lapua seem sensible and even necessary. Cool
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Rip,
thanks for the comments... I assume you won't be building one?
roflmao

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Jeffe,
You got that right! I might as well do a .423/.416 Rigby, a .416/.338 Lapua, or the .510/.505 Gibbs, or a .423 Dakota-Lapua, or a straight .423 Lapua if Dakota screws with the case too much ... yet to be revealed. bewildered
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Ron,
you do understand, of course, that the 470 ar has more TAPER (along the body), is designed to run at lower pressure (about the same capacity) and more headspacing surface area than the capstick, right?

taper (captick) .500 to .499 on the BODY
(470 are) .550 to .540

headspace, .03 capstick, .04 AR .. admittedly on a ~30d angle rather than square.

pressure (assumed from vel) capstick 2300, ar 2200..

extraction surface and "purchase"(primary on casehead) zero difference

BUT.. the 458 ar will have .020 MORE headspacing surface.

it is designed as a compromise.. we'll see if it can work

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of 470 Mbogo
posted Hide Post
Hey Jeff
The Capstick headspaces on the belt so shoulder doesn't matter. Your looking into the 400 Whelen issues with the 470 AR.
Take care,
Dave
 
Posts: 1247 | Location: Sechelt B.C. | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
it is good to watch out for potential pitfalls but lets see what comes out...this is r+d...it may be that the 458 or 416 may be the best of the bunch but the 470 has lots of appeal if it can prove to function reliably. also this might give another good alternative to the holy 375 h+h Big Grin sofa oops...i think i am a heratic now


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of Paul H
posted Hide Post
Perhaps it hasn't been stated clearly on this thread, but the dummy round I made up is a 338 Ultra mag necked and shortened to 2.6". The 470 AR will have the shoulder moved back, the body straightened, and hence a larger shoulder, albeit a small one.


__________________________________________________
The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time.
 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of 470 Mbogo
posted Hide Post
Hi Paul,
By shortening the cartridge by .25 of an inch and figuring .005 taper per running inch it doesn't make much difference. What it would look like in the end is the shoulder on a fired 500 A-Square which is .013 per side or .026 total difference between the neck and shoulder. I'm sure Jeff has figured the Capstick headspace thickness on the belt which usually runs .010 per side. If you could start with cylindrical brass and run it through the FL die to form the shoulder and then fire form it to tighten up the shoulder angle it would form properly. If you use already formed Ultra Mag brass and shorten the case it would create huge problems so you would't be able to just fire form brass. You would have to shorten the brass and then use an expander to open the brass up followed by running it through a FL sizer die and then fire form.
Take care,
Dave
 
Posts: 1247 | Location: Sechelt B.C. | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Jeff, I know nothing about wildcating, but if I follow your thinking why not, form the case along the lines of the ole 375H&H or the newer unseen 400/ 465? Aren't they supposed to feed better and keep presure down also? Or is that possible for a standard 70 action?


Stay Alert,Stay Alive
Niet geschoten is altijd mis

Hate of America is the defeat position of failed individuals and the failing state
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Tidewater,Virginia | Registered: 12 August 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Jeffe,
Why ask for trouble? Just because a couple of cartridges squeak by like the .585 Nyati, .470 Capstick, .460 G&A, etc., mainly because of careful handloading, that is no reason to emulate deficiencies.

As Dave and others are pointing out, the 90 degree square stop of a belt is a different animal than a 20 to 45 degree shoulder semi-angle, and you know that without reminding from me.

Make it a worthy project and start with good brass.

It really ought to be based on Saeed's choice .404 Jeffery, like the .375/404 Saeed, if you want to call it "AR."

Or be bold and strike off onto the .338 Lapua path.

The .30 and .338 Lapua exist commercially, with proper headstamp.

The .375 Lapua exists in Germany as the 9.5x70 mm Tornado.

Dakota is starting a .423 Dakota-Lapua venture.

I have the .375 and .458 Lapua and both work great as a straight necking up of the .338 Lapua Magnum. I have .423 Lapua dummies and would rather have a no-change-neck-up .423 Lapua than any shortened-blown-out-and-shoulder-angle-modified Dakota fantasy. I'd rather start with a Dakota 76 African action and build it the way I want it, not the way Dakota wants it.

The Lapua case "might" work for a .475 if done like a shortened .470 Mbogo, but it would be best to start with cylindrical basic .416 Rigby brass for that, from whence Dave speaks of experience.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
i must say i love the idea of the 375, 416, 458, 475 lapua...the lapua is the best comercial case to come out in modern time. jeffeosso is just trying to make a new dandy cart to fit most actions to give it more of a viable chance on cheap avaliable brass. the poor mans big bore wildcat if you will. if you have a rifle that you just are not using...send it to a smith with a few hundred smackers and viola... a great thumper. the lapua is better if you are starting from the ground up with a cz550 and the like (470 mbogo would be the best conversion on this though) but most people have a rifle that they are not doing much with that is just taking up room in the safe. i think if the 470 ar is viable it along with the 458 and 416 would be great and who knows how many would want to use it. i am eager to see what the testing will turn out. if the 470ar on the rum case is a no-go (i hope not) than the others will be a good alternative thumb i am with you on the lapua though rip thumb


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Rip,

Of course you are right, there there's better choices, if you LIMIT yourself to them.. long actions, more money, more work aren't what I am after


I posted this to BB as to why not use rigby brass..

and, frankly, after I make up some dummies, if the 470 won't work, then it'll roll down to .458 bullets...

with ~.055 headspace, which NO ONE can argue about
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
BB,
You are right.. there are better rounds for SOME actions... and better cases for more money.. and there will be higher pressure for more power (regardless of measurement)

However, let's look at the design constraints.

  • brass
    rum brass 40 cents
    rigby brass $1.93 ~4.5 times the cost
    404 brass $1.55 .. ~4x
    460 weatherby $1.77 4+ x
    500 jeffe $4.20 .. ~10x the cost
    375 "basic" 50 cents .25X
  • case head
    rum .530ish.. same as "every" magnum .. every maker has this bolt face, every smith can work with it

    460/rigby/500 jeffe - specialty case, all bolts (except weatherby, cz, and big ruger) have to be cut which means $$$
  • mag length
    3.35 is do able in a mauser 98, mod 70, ruger 77, rem 700, savage 1x0, sauer, etc etc etc

    anything longer, unless you buy the low % sold longer boxes, requires $$ to change .. so, a ruger 77 in 300 win would require lot$$ of changes$$

  • mag width
    this is the killer for larger brass. the wider the brass, the wider the required box, the more modifications required for proper feeding, and therefore more$$$$ I too have done several designs on rigby and 460 weatherby... and these are too wide for a proper staggered mag. the 550 express is a singlestack. which is $$$ for a smith to do
  • action availability...
    for a rigby, 460, or 500 jeffe based round to stagger load in the mag, you must have a wide action, or an amazingly good smith ($$$) so that is ruger rsm, cz550, brno602, or enfield of the "common" actions

    for a 3.65" round (not wide) you have a wider choice.. some 700s, some 70s, some savages, som CZs, and then $$$$$ to modify a mauser or others.

    However, for basically a "standard" mag width, and a "standard" OAL, you have the choice of EVERY action that was chambered in 300 winmig.



So, in terms of precentages (remember, i firmly state that this is a compromise to be ~90%) you have something like 90+% of all actions made in 7 rem mag should be able to be modified by just about any shadetree gunsmith (again 90%).. run at 90% of the pressure of the capstick or lott, and deliver 90+% of the power...

Or, basically, a well thought out (that may not be the most humble thing I have ever said) round that will allow a fella to get into a serious DR for less $$ than just about anything else, and not have to bump his head on brass price, mag length, mag width, or limited actions.

on the rigby in a mauser.. it's a question of it feeding properly (sure, rigby did it.. can anyone afford to have rigby's paramount grandmaster class gunsmiths make them a rifle today?) .. from WIDTH and length..

So, the problems and hurdles I have tried to design around are, brass price, action availability, action price, and feeding.

Perhaps the taper won't be the easiest for feeding.. I think a 7rem mag, with the rails touched 1/2 up the case and a little feedramp, should feed like a hungry coon hound.


To answer your question, I will be building
470 on a ruger 77 mk1
458 on a mauser 98

and someone is asking me to build one on a remington 700!!

quote:
Imagine a mini-Capstick with a bit less pressure, on a little M70 w/22" qrtr-rib bbl and a thick, miniature English Bigbore-style stock...
tres chic.


that's exacly what we are designing for, for everyone who can afford a rebarrel.


You do know that all pre-64 wins are the same length, from 22h to 375hh length rounds? The difference is how much metal is cut out. so, except for some new "long" actions, you are facing a higher gunsmithing bill for a 3.65" round

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
great post jeffeosso!...but you didnt need my 2 cents. let us know about the donations please, i am sure you are going to build up costs. thanks again for trying the 470 thumb


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
great post jeffeosso!...but you didnt need my 2 cents. let us know about the donations please, i am sure you are going to build up costs. thanks again for trying the 470 thumb

PM me on the forum .. you know which one
i have something you might want .. to help out ..

Martin
 
Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 577NitroExpress
posted Hide Post
I'm in for a donation...just tell me where to send it!


577NitroExpress
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Francotte .470 Nitro Express




If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming...

 
Posts: 2789 | Location: Bucks County, Pennsylvania | Registered: 08 June 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Bent Fossdal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
Perhaps it hasn't been stated clearly on this thread, but the dummy round I made up is a 338 Ultra mag necked and shortened to 2.6". The 470 AR will have the shoulder moved back, the body straightened, and hence a larger shoulder, albeit a small one.


OK, thanks, Paul!


Bent Fossdal
Reiso
5685 Uggdal
Norway

 
Posts: 1707 | Location: Norway | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BusMaster007
posted Hide Post
This thread started out with jeffeoso's 'AR' line, and all the information is excellent reading.
The other thread about RIP's DOA is equally interesting.

If I'm observing this thread correctly, it looks to me like we have two distinct types of rounds and markets for them developing.

RIP's "DOA" idea seems to gravitate toward the hunter who would spend more money on the specialized guns, ammo and hunting trips.

jeffeoso's "AR" idea seems to have the appeal to a broader spectrum of clients, particularly Americans, who would LOVE to have a BIG BORE rifle --- just because! Cool
This would be much more affordable to many more people and the one I'd be more inclined to have made for me, especially since I have a 700/.375 ULTRA ( you know, the famous "I've got it but haven't fired it yet! Wink ) rifle...
If the .416 and .475 (excuse me; .470) were easily made, they'd sell a TON of 'em here in the USA.

I like the ideas of both Men here and hope to see each make a new statement in the 'world of guns'.
Both ideas have much merit and plenty of business waiting for them down the road.
Thank You and Good Luck, Gentlemen!


____________________________________________
Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"?
"...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..."
Former FFL Dealer
NAHC Life Member
NRA Endowment/Life Member
Remington Society of America Member
Hunter in Training
 
Posts: 750 | Location: Upper Left Coast | Registered: 19 July 2003Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Busmaster,
you summed this up very well!!

Ron's DOAs are a perfect fit for the very large actions

the AR line should fit most of the other actions.

It seems the 470 is not going to work out, due to shoulder.. next at bat, the 458!!!

go astros!

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
my question is who CAN make it work...does anyone have the machinery to punch these out just right? it seems to be theoreticly possible from what you say but needs the right method or machinery. am i wrong?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Boomstick,
all it requires is a reamer and dies.. das ist ales

Now, if we could find some upformed rum!!

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
the right brass and custom dies i am assuming...

what do we need to do to get that going?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post




opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BusMaster007
posted Hide Post
Whoa.
There's something very PHALLIC about those pictures... roflmao


____________________________________________
Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"?
"...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..."
Former FFL Dealer
NAHC Life Member
NRA Endowment/Life Member
Remington Society of America Member
Hunter in Training
 
Posts: 750 | Location: Upper Left Coast | Registered: 19 July 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Robgunbuilder
posted Hide Post
Jeffe- SORRY I could not call you today. I was out of the office all day. Look at the .400 whelen shoulder it works just fine. Yes I think you can get away with it. Make sure your reamer design leaves enough space for neck expansion versus the reloading dies. Thats a pretty common problem in cartridge design.-Rob


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012
Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise!
 
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of BW
posted Hide Post
quote:
If only I can work the wife up to this I see a .416AR in MY future... 370 grain North Forks at about 2400 fps, that should do the trick


Not to rain on the parade, but my 416 Taylor already does that number, with a 23 inch barrel.

Hope the actual velocity is higher.


Brian
 
Posts: 778 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
the tests are not done but jeffe is conservative on the speeds because he is a low preasure school guy...i am sure max loads will be better than the 416 taylor. lets wait and see thumb


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27616 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BW:


Not to rain on the parade, but my 416 Taylor already does that number, with a 23 inch barrel.

Hope the actual velocity is higher.


Brian,
the actually case capacity will be closer to the full sized HH case, than the taylor.. which I think the taylor is (was) the neatest entry level dgr in the world.

there IS a cost to the taylor getting close to the rigby and remington power levels.. pressure...

So, the AR line will probably not be the highest SPEED performer as a nominal loading.. and as much as I like, respect and read PO ackley, when he put together a 'cat the estimated velocities were "enthusiastic" to say the least.

I was playing with quickload and 23" barrels last night.. moderate (read 48,500psi) keeps your velocities in the "moderate" of 2200+ ..


Do i think these will make 2200? I wouldn't waste my time on them if they wouldn't do that, easily...

will they go faster? If one loads them hotter. will they go faster than the taylor, winmag, and 470 nitro .. oh yeah

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Are we still talking about the 470 AR round ... or has that been squellched for another round ... ?

Martin...sleepy
 
Posts: 1557 | Location: Home of the original swage | Registered: 29 February 2004Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Still making the 470... will have the 3 reamers as a set.. 416 reamer, 458 and 470 neck and throat reamers

if i can find my 416 AB barrel, i'll cut a 458 and 416 about a week after we get the reamer.. then about 3 weeks after than, the .475 barrel will get here!!


jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40157 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 24 
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    416, 458, 470, and 500 AR - the line of AR rounds - dialup warning

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia