Just for the guys with the 500s coming on line now

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Just for the guys with the 500s coming on line now

Is there an attachment/picture/link missing?
Otherwise I'm not following the comment.

I was posting in reference to both several 500 ARs starting to come up, and to have the thread up to answer some questions

thank you.
And I feel that the 500AccR is a well-designed cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I feel that the 500AccR is a well-designed cartridge.

that is exactly why i designed them.. for my peers to feel this way

Lets see some pics of the new rigs.
Finally got some rain here so I've been playing with the APITs again. I dug this penetrator out of the block of concrete I always shoot. The tip is still sharp. Amazing.

Well, the rifle isn't ready yet,
but the test loads are waiting for a 500 AccR. A 270Win and 338WM are shown for comparison.


These are intended to prepare for some 450 grain Raptors that should also be available soon. I've started with 100 grain H4895 and H335 with the 450 grain Woodleighs in order to test the rifle integrity. This should be a good starting load since AmmoGuide list 100 grains with 535 grain Woodleigh loads. After the 100 grain charges, we will try 103, 104, and 105 grain charges, chronographing each, and with each powder. Finally, some tests with 535 grain Woodleigh and 570 CEB are listed. These latter have two loads at 90 grains powder and 93 grains powder of H335 and H4895. the bullet is long so capacity is reduced.

Here is another shot of the loads:


Now we wait for McGowen to finish up.

PS:
If anyone does the paperwork for a BATF sporting classification for 500AccR, I would appreciate a copy. Even though there shouldn't be any trouble and I've travelled internationally a lot without trouble, a piece of paper for California could be helpful. I'm overseas for a few months and don't have the rifle yet anyway, should that be required for demo.

Let us know how those 450's shoot. This will be the next bullet I try. The 600gr woodleighs are awesome but are just way overkill for anything that I shoot around here.

I moved the safe today and enjoyed cleaning and oiling these old friends

They are old friends.

When will some more 500 AccRel brass be ready?

470 ar reamer finally in hand. unknown on brass

quote:

When will some more 500 AccRel brass be ready?

It wouldn't have a headstamp but you could check with Captech Intl to determine if they have Jamison' 338 Lapua Mag basic (cylinder) brass available. http://www.captechintl.com/default.php

RIP said the small quantity he purchased earlier this year was very high quality.

Hi gents

Havent been on for a while, been thru a messy divorce

Managed to come across some good 338 Lapua Brass, Out of interest has anybody successfully been able to open up 338 Lap Brass for the 500 AccRel ??????

What process would you use to minimise loss ?

regards Joe

Very sad to hear of your breakup.

On cases and rifles,

RIP did some work with both .510" and .500", though with 2.7" cases.

S&F, are you using a 1.25" freebore or a .25" freebore?

I couldn’t find the exact thread reference – but, RIP uses a fireforming method utilizing .338 Lapua Magnum brass for his 12.7x68 Magnum chambered Win M70 rifle using the extractor to hold the cartridge in the chamber. Here is a reference I found in another thread:

quote:

The Lapua-brand .338 Lapua Magnum new/unfired brass was a very uniform 2.717" long before fireforming, with a hot loaded 200-grain Nosler ballistic tip .338/200-grain bullet.
I was surprised it came out as long as it did, only shortened about 0.010", from 2.717" to 2.707".

I do seem to recollect he loaded the bullets butt out but don’t recollect having read the powder or powder charge used. I would imagine any readily available 200gr .338 caliber bullet could be substituted for the BTs.

The 12.7x68 Magnum and the .500 AccRel are very close in dimensions except the 12.7 uses .500 caliber bullets vs .510 caliber bullets for the AccRel. Perhaps RIP will chime in in the near future with better recommendations.

Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by ShortandFat:
Hi gents

Havent been on for a while, been thru a messy divorce

Managed to come across some good 338 Lapua Brass, Out of interest has anybody successfully been able to open up 338 Lap Brass for the 500 AccRel ??????

What process would you use to minimise loss ?

regards Joe

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Very sad to hear of your breakup.

On cases and rifles,

RIP did some work with both .510" and .500", though with 2.7" cases.

The .500-caliber Lapua-Improved wildcat has 2.657" maximum case length. The .510 has 2.700" maximum case length.
I lost less than 1 in 100 cases to neck splits in simply firing a normal .338 Lapua Magnum load in the .500/.338LM-Improved rifle, as Jim describes below.
It is certainly much easier and with zero case-loss to neck the cylindrical brass down to .510 in standard reloading die, and trim to length.
You might even try the COW and pistol powder fire-forming method, though I have not tried that.
Each method will have a different intermediate case length to be trimmed down to 500 AR 2.650" length.

S&F, are you using a 1.25" freebore or a .25" freebore?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
I couldn’t find the exact thread reference – but, RIP uses a fireforming method utilizing .338 Lapua Magnum brass for his 12.7x68 Magnum chambered Win M70 rifle using the extractor to hold the cartridge in the chamber. Here is a reference I found in another thread:

quote:

The Lapua-brand .338 Lapua Magnum new/unfired brass was a very uniform 2.717" long before fireforming, with a hot loaded 200-grain Nosler ballistic tip .338/200-grain bullet.
I was surprised it came out as long as it did, only shortened about 0.010", from 2.717" to 2.707".

I do seem to recollect he loaded the bullets but out but don’t recollect having read the powder or powder charge used. I would imagine any readily available 200gr .338 caliber bullet could be substituted for the BTs.

The 12.7x68 Magnum and the .500 AccRel are very close in dimensions except the 12.7 uses .500 caliber bullets vs .510 caliber bullets for the AccRel. Perhaps RIP will chime in in the near future with better recommendations.

Hope this helps.

I also do a straight neck up from .338 to .475 in three steps using tapered neck-expander dies: .338 to .375. then .375 to .458, then .458 to .475.
No problems, but the brass does shorten more in going that way. Might work with a 4th step from .475 to .510, and end up right where you want to be 2.650" max brass. Try it and let us know how it goes.
I expect the nicely-annealed-from-the-factory, new/unfired, Lapua-made, civilian brass would do well with this, any way you prefer to do it.

Did ya think we were going to delete our comments ala Alf? Or did you forget to post your comment? LOL...

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Very sad to hear of your breakup.

Dont worry, shes in a relationship with her millionair boss , so glad to be rid of her, but in Australia we have a NO BLAME system so not much I can do about it, been concentrating on my two young boys instead

quote:

S&F, are you using a 1.25" freebore or a .25" freebore?

the original smaller freebore


I managed to get my hands on 250 once fired Swedish RUAT (T) brass, I'm not sure how soft it is or how it will fireform

quote:

quote:

S&F, are you using a 1.25" freebore or a .25" freebore?

the original smaller freebore

So in Australia you started with a short freebore? The 'standard' in the the US was a long 1.25" freebore in the reamer housed with McGowen barrels. This was discussed from many angles in the thread:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...691025591#8691025591

Page 1 is here:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3061083571/p/1

You may want to check out the beginning of that thread. Higher velocity and brass bullets were shown to 'shear' the bullet down to the bore diameter .500", from a .510" bullet. I've rebarreled to a 0.25" freebore, so has Buffalo in Denmark, maybe others.

Sorry about your divorce.

He had the original long throat

Anneal the lapua, form a tiny shoulder with your dies so the rifle barely closes, fireform

Yes milsurp brass do anneal before neck expanding with a die or fire forming.

RIP lost one piece of my milsurp brass when fire forming 7 pieces. Brass was once fired Lapua mfg/brand milsurp.

I lost 2 of twenty pieces of the milsurp Lapua using my Custom Hornady Expanding Die; it's a single pass from .338 caliber to .500 caliber. This expander die is designed to use in conjunction with a Custom Hornady Hydraulic Forming Die.

Far easier to use RIP's fire forming process if you have easy access to a range.

I am wondering if the milsurp brass is not annealed after the final forming at the factory, left hard for abuse through military handling systems?
Fires once just fine and then is meant to be discarded, not reloaded?

If you anneal it and do as jeffeosso says it should be a winner.

You will certainly come out with most of those 250 pieces of milsurp brass intact for trimming to 500 AR length of 2.650".

But since I only work with the 2.657"-cased .500-Lapua wildcat made by fire-forming,
and the 2.700"-cased .510-Lapua wildcat made by necking down cylindrical,
I am not qualified to further discuss this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
I am wondering if the milsurp brass is not annealed after the final forming at the factory, left hard for abuse through military handling systems?
Fires once just fine and then is meant to be discarded, not reloaded?

This I believe is true, the military is unconcerned with reloading therefore the additional annealing step is eliminated which saves on the cost of the ammunition.

Could likely reload and fire many times as .338 caliber but expanding the case/neck for .500 caliber or .510 cartridges/bullets does require annealing to prevent case loss.

So fireform, trim to length, and you should have a brass stash that'll last you many years.

G'day all, I just realised I hadn't reported back here after finally shooting my Mk X 458 AR. Last September I went to the Hunt Australia buffalo camp, not far from where we lived in the NT. Stayed for a week to help pack up at the end of season and to hunt a trophy buff before I left the NT for Western Australia.

I won't do a full hunt report here but long story short, I finished the bedding and sorted out the feeding, got some brass made from 375RUM (hard to find Down Under) and with minimal load development ended up with 325gn Woodleigh Hydros powered by 85gns of 2206H and shot a solid bull at about 150 yards on a floodplain. Two Hydros zapped straight through from the side and he started to move off. the third shot hit the same area of shoulder but he was turning and the bullet travelled along the neck and stopped against the base of his skull, dropping him emphatically.

I have a to do fair bit more shooting to get properly acquainted with the cartridge, something which I'm looking forward to doing.

Thanks to Jeffeosso, Con, Short+Fat, and Paz for your parts in bringing the AR series to life, and to Australia. And Con again for the Quickload data...

Richard's Microfit stock (safari Monte Carlo) Talley crossbolts. Pachmayr Triple Magnum grind to fit pad, I don't like because it's too squirmy. Didn't get to fit a fore end tip before the hunt !

Fireforming done with spent .223 cases and Trail Boss powder. You can see a couple that didn't quite blow out the necks properly.


Stock sealed with epoxy, took the shine off it later.


Myself and Matt Graham


The bullet that dropped him

Thank you, sir -- it is a true pleasure to hear about your experiences. Heart warming

Nice looking rifle, congrats on the fine buffalo.

Looking at the engraving on the bullet banding, there appears to be some slippage until all four bands engage the rifling...

Good observation.

What is the free bore of the .458AR?

Yep slippage is what I thought, but had never seen it before. I don't know what the freebore measurement is, Con described it as "a fair bit" !!

quote:

Originally posted by hellmansam:
Yep slippage is what I thought, but had never seen it before. I don't know what the freeborn measurement is, Con described it as "a fair bit" !!

The .458 AR has 0.800" freebore and leade. That is quite a bit, similar to a 460Weatherby.

here is the schema for the 458 AR
http://forums.accuratereloadin...621073012#4621073012

It appears that brass bullets are softer/weaker than copper when engaging the lands. We had a similar problem with the 500AR. It had a 1.250" freebore and would shear a .510" brass bullet down to .500". We fixed this by rebarreling and rechambering with only 0.255" freebore. I have named the short throat version the 500AccRel Nyati. Contact Capoward for the 500 AccRel short-throat reamer.

So... I have acquired a bunch of stuff for a 500 AR build. After reading a bit about throat length, I guess I have to ask the question. I plan on shooting cast and jacketed 450-500 grain bullets. Should I look for the reamer with the short throat? I honestly do not see myself ever shooting milsurp BMG bullets.

Gixxer - you'll love it --

go with the shorter throat -- I am going to have the original 500 reamer reground to shorter throat and call it good.. you guys are amazing

the 416/458/470/476 are going to stay where they are ... no stripping and excellent groups

Sweet thanks Jeffe!

FYI

Here is the diagram of the "short throat reamer". It's still 1/2 calibre and .255" throat.


It appears that brass bullets should probably be limited to .5" throats, maximum, for most accurate results.

.800 works GREAT, Taz

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
.800 works GREAT, Taz

wasn't there slippage with a BRASS bullet in a .8" throat 458 up above?

It appears that the problem may be a combination of "brass" plus "extra long free bore".

In any case, the shorter throat in the 500AR will handle extra long bullets, as well as brass bullets. And the 500 AccRel (short Rigby case) is an awesome modern cartridge design.

No sir. Never saw it in anything but the 500. And that was a "perfect storm"

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
No sir. Never saw it in anything but the 500. And that was a "perfect storm"

Jeffe there is slippage indicated in the banding on the Woodleigh Hydro pictured above; certainly didn't strip the banding as happened with the 500 AR but it didn't stop until the 4th band engaged the rifling...

Jim
Yep the 500 is the only one we ever saw this one. I had designed a huge throat for milsurp. . Which, as it turns out, isn't needed.

Here is a pic of the 458 with the .8. From above No issues

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Jim
Yep the 500 is the only one we ever saw this one. I had designed a huge throat for milsurp. . Which, as it turns out, isn't needed.

Here is a pic of the 458 with the .8. From above No issues

Jeffe,

I am aware that band engagement slippage is an issue with narrow bands on bore riding banded monometal bullets especially when fired at higher velocities.

But there is slippage indicated on the forth of four bands (the base band) which I believe should have stopped at the second band, the third band at the very maximum. Too much bullet jump? To soft, or to hard, of bullet construction? Perhaps an issue of both? Not sure, I just believe that 4th (base) band should have had pristine groove cuts.