quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
Not really I asked if a 416 Whelen was a thought on this page back in May !

But I do like the idea of a .400 Whelen, the power it achieves has been proven on Big Game for a very long time, with lesser bullets !

The 400 Whelen sounds like a reasonable load, practical and usable for short-range hunting. However, a factory-issued 416 Ruger is available that does it all and gives options for using 20 more grains of powder. So for me this niche of rifle and power is wonderfully covered by relatively inexpensive rifles in 375Ruger (Ruger, Howa, Mossberg ...) and especially 416 Ruger (Ruger Hawkeye African, Ruger Alaskan). There's not a lot that can't be hunted, and hunted well, with a 416 Ruger.

Yep 416 is a better way to go without a doubt

Sounds like mine is pretty close to being in my hands.

I'll have to open the barrel channel on the factory Win stock first. There are several different sets of bases and rings in the gun room, just have to pick. Not sure what i'll do for a scope, might move the Leupold 1-4 from the 375. Not sure I can fit the 2-7 in the bases/rings I have. Possibly a fixed 4x Weaver that's currently on a 1903.

As well, still need to order dies, brass and bullets.

I'm running a 2-7 Leupold on mine and find that about perfect for my uses, I also have open sights that are sighted in for 50 yards and quick release rings on weaver style steel bases.
Absolutely repeatable accuracy.
I like the higher end of my 2-7 to ring out some of the pin point accuracy of my rifle at the range.

Some very good thoughts, ideas, and details on this thread.

I am just in the process of ordering a barrel for a .400 Whelen project. The consensus seem to be that a Shilen .411 barrel (.411 grove, .404 bore), 14" twist, #4 contour is a good choice.
McGowen makes one for the .405 Win. It has .412 grove, 402 bore - would this one work for the 400 Whelen?

Already have a 400 Brown Whelen reamer from a friend and two suitable rifles/actions to choose from for a donor.

The McGowan barrel would "work" however I don't think it would be ideal. I went with the Shilen barrel you referenced and have no regrets.
If I built another I would use the same Shilen barrel but with a lighter contour just for a change.

I agree. The McGowan .412 would work but the Shilen .411 is the barrel Mike Petrov recommended to me. His feeling was that .411 was the proper groove diameter for a 400 Whelen. I went with the #4 Shilen for mine. No regrets.

I may have said this before, but I use only .410 groove Douglas barrels. Those work the best.

I believe ramrod's PDK is on a .410 as well (its close enough to the Whelen and he's been very helpful I n the thread so we'll count him)

If anyone is interested, I have a 400 Whelen for sale. Built on a New Haven Winchester 70 classic action by Rusty McGee. Shilen Barrel, NECG sights, one piece steel bottom metal. Never fired it. Also have CH4D dies and 90pcs of quality cartridge 400 Whelen brass to go with it. Pretty much a turn key rifle. There are pics of it earlier in this thread. PM me if interested.

Found it...

quote:

Originally posted by +Templar+:
Just got my 400 Whelen back from Mr. McGee. Turned out really great. Built on a Winchester 70. Shilen #3 contour barrel, NECG sights. Weighs 7 lbs 10 oz as pictured. Balances at the front action screw. Can’t wait to shoot it. If considering one, I’d certainly have Rusty put it together.

quote:

I believe ramrod's PDK is on a .410 as well

Not sure of the question but yep the 400PDK is built on the Douglas .410. I used .410, .411 and even .412 cast with excellent results

Templer I sent a PM

Ramrod good to see you posting, how is MO treating you?

Darn higher humidity makes it cold.

Krieger has .411 groove, .403 or .405 land option, another choice.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
Krieger has .411 groove, .403 or .405 land option, another choice.

Do you recall the twist?

14" twist.

Another dpcd 400 Whelen

M70 Classic (was a 25-06) Still needs to be cerakote'd and a little bit more fitting to get the stock just right. Butso far so good! Pictured with a Zeiss Terra 3X 2-7 and Talley lightweights just to check everything out weight and fit wise. Might move my Leupold 1-4x20 VX1 on it, or buy a FX-II 3X20 , maybe Weaver Classic V 1-3x20.

A cool looking rig,,the perfect weight for shooting too.

That looks great, welcome to the club.
Can't wait to hear your range reports.

Getting back around to this. With a cow elk tag here in NM for December, it seems the .400 Whelen is about a perfect choice. Ordered some 300-grain soft-point Hornady slugs for practice, and will use the Barnes 300-grain TSX for hunting. I will be working on shooting out to 200 yards or so with an aperture sight on the Springfield. Seems like a good project to get me past upcoming lumbar fusion back surgery.

Well, apparently there are a lot of fresh thoughts on the 400 whelen.

I also have a 400 Whelen. It only took me about eight years to gather up the parts and get it built. Finally finished it in 2016. I built mine on a 1903-A3 Springfield. I used a Douglas barrel. I had the barrel contoured and set the length to 25". It has a .400 bore, 8; .410 grooves with a 1 - 18 twist. I have a K3 Weaver scope mounted on it. My avatar shows a loaded case and two one hundred yard shot groups. The first group are the three shots on the left side of the 9 and 10 rings. A slight sight adjustment moved the second group into the X ring. The load is 52 grains of IMR 4064 under a 400 grain cast bullet with a gas check. I have no idea how fast this load is. The cases expand only one thousand of an inch and the primer still have a round appearance. The recoil is about all I want to handle shooting from a bench. The first time my son shot it, he shook his head, was blinking his eyes and said "Dad, that will wake you up!" The 400 Whelen is a great cartridge. Too bad so many people who have never shot one; bad mouth it so.

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Whelen:
I also have a 400 Whelen. It only took me about eight years to gather up the parts and get it built. Finally finished it in 2016. I built mine on a 1903-A3 Springfield. I used a Douglas barrel. I had the barrel contoured and set the length to 25". It has a .400 bore, 8; .410 grooves with a 1 - 18 twist. I have a K3 Weaver scope mounted on it. My avatar shows a loaded case and two one hundred yard shot groups. The first group are the three shots on the left side of the 9 and 10 rings. A slight sight adjustment moved the second group into the X ring. The load is 52 grains of IMR 4064 under a 400 grain cast bullet with a gas check. I have no idea how fast this load is. The cases expand only one thousand of an inch and the primer still have a round appearance. The recoil is about all I want to handle shooting from a bench. The first time my son shot it, he shook his head, was blinking his eyes and said "Dad, that will wake you up!" The 400 Whelen is a great cartridge. Too bad so many people who have never shot one; bad mouth it so.

Hey, I think the 400 Whelen is a great cartridge. But now we have a 416 Ruger option right off of store shelves that fits in the same size of rifle.

And recoil is supposed to wake us up, to let us know that we've fired at the animal.

I think a lightweight stainless stalking rifle would be my dream 400 Whelen. No scope and a red dot set up. Who has the lightest Whelen?
What is your dream 400W?

Boom Stick, My rifle weighs nine pounds so I don't have the lightest 400W.

416Tanzan, I also think the 416 Ruger is great cartridge. I also think it out performs the 400 Whelen. I do wonder how long it will survive? Chambered by only two manufacturers and a case that is produced by only one. No big name gun writers to spin its yarns. It appears to be going down the same path as the 416 Remington Mag. Another great cartridge that no company, including Remington, is making rifles for.

The 400 Whelen was never a factory round yet it has been around since at least 1923 and interest in it is continuing to grow, as indicated by the 30 pages of this forum.

As long as there are 30-06 cases available the 400 Whelen will always be here.

Thank you for the fair discussion.

As you mentioned, the 416 Ruger rifle is still manufactured and offered by Ruger. The problem is not so much the cartridge as the lack of need in the lower-48 US for any cartridge over .375. But in Alaska I suspect that the cartridge will continue. I would probably want one if I was sometimes among the big bears.

For me the 416 Ruger is something to consider, in fact is very attractive , as an all around cartridge where buffalo may be encountered. It has more punch and diameter than a 375, yet can be packaged in an easy-to-carry rifle (like the 400 Whelen ) and has more comfortable recoil than the 458's for taking the many antelope and warthogs that are inevitably on an African hunt, whether for meat or trophy. The 416 Ruger is a great caliber when considering something around 5000 foot-pounds of energy. While the 416 Rigby can be loaded up over 6000 foot-pounds rather easily, the Rigby rifle usually weighs a pound or two more than a 416 Ruger. Rifle weight gets old as soon as one is hiking a mile or more away from a vehicle. Sometimes with my son I've traded the Rigby for him to carry while I carry our Tikka 338 Win Mag, very lightweight that we've nicknamed the Wand because we can wave it around with one hand. Now that Tikka is REALLY an all around cartridge for "carry all day," but it is technically not legal for buffalo. So I stay with the 416 Ruger as a top-of-the-list all-arounder and of course I want our 416 Rigby or more in my hands on fresh buffalo spoor. Then the rule becomes "as much as one can put one's hands on in an accurate rifle that one can shoot golf balls with at 100 yards."

quote:

Then the rule becomes "as much as one can put one's hands on in an accurate rifle that one can shoot golf balls with at 100 yards."

Would that refer to the "technically non legal .338 Win Mag" that can floor a Nyati with one shot?

What a great round!

Yes, the 338 is a great round but I was referring to "more" than a 416 Rigby, like the various 500's.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I think a lightweight stainless stalking rifle would be my dream 400 Whelen. No scope and a red dot set up. Who has the lightest Whelen?
What is your dream 400W?

Boomy mine could easily shed a few pounds with a stock and scope change. As far as SS and light im going to guess RIP with his SS M70 with the featherweight stock takes the cake. I believe his #4 Shilen is pretty light

Templar's beats mine by 4 ounces, and he has extra barrel hardware on his.
I was shocked to see his with a #3 sporter from Shilen, 4140 chrome-moly I guess, 24" long?

#4 sporter was the lightest Shilen would do for me in stainless, barrel is 25" long, donor rifle was a 270 WCF: 7 lbs. 14 oz. with no sights, no ammo.
Mine:



Templar's, for side-by-side visual comparison:



Here is a third one, by Rusty McGee, my Ruger Hawkeye, with 23.6" barrel length, donor rifle was a .35 Whelen: Also 7 lbs. 14 oz. empty



Optical illusion: Those barrel contours don't look much different, but they really are Shilen Sporter #4, #3, #5 top to bottom above.

As previously shown on this thread:
The stainless M70 has a 3.6" Wiebe XRM box (adds one extra round)
and has an extra 0.188" of parallel-sided free-bore compared to the standard .400 Whelen-G&H-Petrov chamber.
The Ruger has a 3.4" box.
My .400 Whelens by McGee could use some iron sights.
I am thinking Wisner copy of M70 "African" rear sight, and an NECG banded front, matte blacked,
like the Cerakote on the Ruger.

The .400 Whelen is great training wheels for a .458 WIN shooter to get started off right.

Rip ...

quote:

McGowen makes one for the .405 Win. It has .412 grove, 402 bore - would this one work for the 400 Whelen

T
The McGowen .405 WCF barrels on my .405 WCF double rifle both shoot sub-minute-of angle with both 300 grain(2250 fps) and 400 grain (2050 fps)bullets.

That plus excellent regulation by Aaron Little gives me sub minute of angle two shot groups at 50 yards. four shots in an inch circle works well on big game at most of my .405 hunting ranges.

Talk with McGowen regarding their barrel dimension options. I just picked up a barrel from them with .411 groove, .404 bore, 1-14" twist, in the CZ Light Contour, 25" length. Leaning toward the 400 H&H this time around although the Whelen does hold a lot of appeal too.

quote:

Originally posted by pinotguy:
Talk with McGowen regarding their barrel dimension options. I just picked up a barrel from them with .411 groove, .404 bore, 1-14" twist, in the CZ Light Contour, 25" length. Leaning toward the 400 H&H this time around although the Whelen does hold a lot of appeal too.

Good to hear that.
When Rusty started building .400 Whelens, Krieger and Shilen were about it for proper specs shown by that McGowen.
Even if the original .400 Whelen of Townie had a .409"-grooved barrel.

I am leaning toward McGowen for the next .458 WIN.
Supposed to be true .458/.450 diameters, and they offer faster twist and lighter contour options than Shilen.
A .458 WIN as light as Templar's .400 Whelen might be possible.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by pinotguy:
Talk with McGowen regarding their barrel dimension options. I just picked up a barrel from them with .411 groove, .404 bore, 1-14" twist, in the CZ Light Contour, 25" length. Leaning toward the 400 H&H this time around although the Whelen does hold a lot of appeal too.

Was that the barrel from the "misc barrels" ready to ship page? If so I had that in my shopping cart a dozen times but never pulled the trigger on buying it

I cannot find that barrel here:

http://mcgowenbarrel.com/bore-groove/

Have they not updated the info page?

Closest listed, as before:



Above is "41-caliber" with 14" and 18" twists, both 6-groove. Below is "405-caliber" with 14" and 18" twists, both 6-groove:



Also listed:



Twists Available
1-8″ (8 Groove)
1-10″ (8 Groove)
1-14″ (6 & 8 Groove)
1-16″ (8 Groove)
1-18″ (8 Groove)
1-22″ (8 Groove)
1-24″ (6 Groove)

Rip ...

MHS and RIP - Yes, this is one of those barrels they had listed on their "Ready to Ship" page. I called to verify the dimensions as this is not shown on the site and I thought there may have been a typo in the description. These are the correct numbers so I wonder if this was part of a requested OEM order? Either way, they must have the tooling and I imagine they could easily make more barrels, if ordered.

Ok, Slightly off topic... is there a real benefit of a longcol 9,3x62 400 Whelen or 375 Whelen?

PS
Is there a benefit of using 9,3x62 or 9,3x66 Sako Brass?
Would 9,3x62 brass work in a Whelen chamber?
Is there a need for a 400 Whelenesque 400-9,3x62?
6,2 brass gives you how much case capacity advantage?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
PS
Is there a benefit of using 9,3x62 or 9,3x66 Sako Brass?
Would 9,3x62 brass work in a Whelen chamber?
Is there a need for a 400 Whelenesque 400-9,3x62?
6,2 brass gives you how much case capacity advantage?

I believe there's a benefit to using x62 brass for a .400-9.3x62 project, especially if you shoot 9.3x62 and have a lot of brass lying around. Under similar conditions, an apples to apples comparison with a .400 Whelen Petrov should pick up about 100 fps. I mocked this one up about six years ago using QuickDESIGN and QuickLoad. If you improve the x62 to a taper of 0.0055" per inch case body (0.465" shoulder) and use a COL of 3.45" (which my CZ can feed) with a 22-23" barrel, you should get over 2300 fps @ 60k psi with RL-17 powder and a 400 grain bullet. Push the pressure to 64k psi, and you should be able to exceed 2400 fps with a Woodleigh 400 grain roundnose. If you seat to 3.6" longcol, it doesn't gain you much more capacity unless you're using the more pointed or monometal 400 grain bullets. This wildcat is extremely efficient, but probably would be best in a light rifle for all-around use with around a 360 grain North Fork at 2400-2450 fps.

Wow!
Has anyone done one? I have thought about this idea for a while. Is the Sako 66 brass the same as the 62 brass but longer?
Metric Whelen? 10,4x62? Or 64? or 66?