Jeffe, the Bell Brass production line was bought by Mast Technology over a year ago, I bought 100 rounds of the last of the 15,000 rounds Mast had left. Dunno what's happened since then, they probably sold it to Jamison, but TOTW has it in stock, it's very possible that they bought a bunch of it at the same time. Last time I checked BA, they didn't have any Bell brass, but I've got 40 rounds from TOTW since.

Tim

http://www.bellbrass.com/

Tim,
you are probably right on there being some left. However, MAST is BeLL, and Jim Bell sold all of his civilian production machines and rights (for both mast and BeLL) to Jamison a bit over 2 years ago.

Can you try something for me? Take a dummy -120, and see if you can slide into the chamber of a breakopen 12ga? I think you'll see it bounces off the chamber, or gets awesome close...

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by JMJ888:

quote:

but I am after CHEAP CHEAP... 45/70 brass is 42¢, and I have a pile of it, as well as dies, shell holder, etc.

42 pennies for brass and a buck a pop for the bullet. The TSX's kind of max out the cheap meter.

or 22¢ for 550gr casts, or 13¢ for remmie 405s sitting way out..!!

I aint using TSXs just for jug busting... well, not EVERY time

Jeffe,

I don't have a 12ga available, but I do have a 20ga Pardner, FWIW, the 45-120 round will drop all the way thru the bore and out the muzzle of the modified barrel.
Tim

I hate to bring this up but has anyone seen the proof pressure for the Spartan 45-70. As I recall the spec sheet I saw said it was limited to loads of 28K or less. Just food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Tim,
you are probably right on there being some left. However, MAST is BeLL, and Jim Bell sold all of his civilian production machines and rights (for both mast and BeLL) to Jamison a bit over 2 years ago.

Can you try something for me? Take a dummy -120, and see if you can slide into the chamber of a breakopen 12ga? I think you'll see it bounces off the chamber, or gets awesome close...

jeffe

I think you would be struck by lightning if you loaded a 45/100,45/110 or 45/120 with anything but the holy black powder. If you did load a 45/120 with(i shudder to say it) smokeless powder how many actions would take the preasure of a full case of it???
I load for and shoot a 45/110 the brass cost $$$ I am using converted 348winmag now until I am forced to buy more.
Jeffe is on the right trail cheap brass /bullets leads to alot of shooting. Ill bet with some of the powders we have today one could test the limits of most 45/70 as they are.

Ps A 45/110 case full with BP compressed a bit then topped off with a 560grain cast bullet can really get the rocks off!
Dean

The warmest load I've shot in my .45-120 BC is 60gr of H4895 with a 525gr BTB Piledriver, velocity is just shy of 1800fps in the 32" barrel. Case growth was minimal, accuracy was great at 200yds, even with my poor eyes. The H4895 is very position sensative, tho.

I'm all for Jeffe's idea too, I have 3 .45-70 H&Rs that are getting throated this week!!

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/cowboy/lrrd.php#45-120

i love the 450 alaskan performance with minimal investment...great idea jeddi jeffe...

where can I rent the throat reamer. I have a 45-70 NO. 1 Ruger and want to load the 405s to the second grove. Thanks for any help. Elmer.

p. s. Will the Number 1 take a rebarrel to 28 gauge? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by elk hunter:
I hate to bring this up but has anyone seen the proof pressure for the Spartan 45-70. As I recall the spec sheet I saw said it was limited to loads of 28K or less. Just food for thought.

yep, food for thought... and the 30-06 loaded on the same case... and you couldn't put a 30-06 in a contender, but you could a 45/70, and then it had uberloads for it....

things to make you think

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Elmer:
where can I rent the throat reamer. I have a 45-70 NO. 1 Ruger and want to load the 405s to the second grove. Thanks for any help. Elmer.

4D rents em. I've rented their throaters before, works great.

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2911043/m/417102155

i like this "nitro" idea for the 500 s&w...

kinda like making a 500 alaskan.

buy a t.c. pro hunter chambered in 500 s&w and crimp .5" up the bullet.

Thanks for the info on the reamer, I will rent one from 4 D .. Other than making a dummy round and keep checking as I ream the throat, any other instructions? ie how many turns after the round seats? I believe the correct throat reamer is listed as the .458 throater.

The throater has no stops, it is just a tapered reamer that fits in the existing throat, you have to use care to not go too deep, although I have some pretty deep throated Handis, doesn't seem to hurt much, just make a turn and test, make a turn and test. There's probably a more techincal procedure, but that's how I did the last one on my .35 Rem. Use plenty of cutting oil too, I don't think you can use too much!!

Another thought, it may not be easy on a Ruger, I'm doing this on a break barrel, so removing the barrel is easy, the Ruger will take more work.

Tim

If I had my druthers in the 45-70-90-120 caliber realm,
I'd get 45-120 case and load it like our 12ga project.
It can be loaded to better than 458 Win power and kept under
28k psi, so it would work in weaker actions, etc, with
powders that fill the case and and brass would resize
easy and last a hundred rounds. Ed.

Got the reamer in the mail today, my lovely wife brought the reamer home from our po box... all of my .45-70 barrels now have Linda Lovelace throats, good enough to load the 400gr Speer FN to a COL of 2.575" in the second cannelure. The reamer is long enough that I could have made it another .250" deep if I needed to, FWIW. Took about 45 minutes, start to finish for all three barrels including cleanup. Cost was $27.05 plus return shipping for the reamer.

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Throaters&...e6b3d455cd964f129ccf

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
If I had my druthers in the 45-70-90-120 caliber realm,
I'd get 45-120 case and load it like our 12ga project.
It can be loaded to better than 458 Win power and kept under
28k psi, so it would work in weaker actions, etc, with
powders that fill the case and and brass would resize
easy and last a hundred rounds. Ed.

Ed,

The .45-120 is already loaded to 31kpsi in existing loading data. Please pm me your thoughts.

Thx

Tim
aka quickdtoo

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rif...ght%20page%20365.pdf

Wrong target,
you can make a "plug gage" but taking a 1/2" rod, lathe turn it to ~.458, and then trim to about 2.65 or how ever long you want the neck to be.

jeffe

Jeffe- another way is to take bullet
of the general style nose your
using and drill and tap 1/4 inch hole in base
and thread in 1/4 inch bolt into it.I got one each for a whole bunch calibers.Ed.

I use a COL tool that Randy Reeves makes.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showfla...page=&fpart=all&vc=1

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showfla...&fpart=all&vc=1&nt=2

great minds do think alike...

a couple months back some might remember me talking about dave clays 50 texan...a 2.3" case. it can shoot 50 alaskan or the longer 50 texan able to cycle in a marlin...i mentioned to him "what about a 2.3" case version of the 45-70??? cut a 45-90 down and use 45-70 bullets or load out regular rifle bullets in reg. 45-70 cases and able to shoot reg 45-70 store bought ammo. he liked the idea and i thought it was the cheapest way to get more power (minus the smithing to get a 2.75"ish round to cycle in a marlin.) he stated that .2" is enough to be worthwhile. as "el jeffe" put it it will give 450 alaskan performance with 45-70 components.

now if yer a junkie you could do a 2.3" case version of the 450 alaskan

its not in the rem spartan but nobody has one yet

p.s. for those who dont know dave clay is a gunsmith in texas...

A little off topic. I have a Marlin GG chambered in 457 wildwest mag. 2.210" case length. I run 460 gr cast bullets at 1700-1750 with my 18.5" barrel. I feel this is safe with the added case capacity over the normal 45-70. Sorry to get off topic but can anyone tell me if I am justified in running this load through my Marlin and what my pressures might be. The specific load is 460gr Cast Performance in front of 47.5gr AA2300. This should be below 40,000psi (38,000psi is listed in the book) but its listed under Ruger No.1 loads. Furthermore, I've shot more than 40 rounds of this though my Marlin so far with no ill effects. Since you guys might already have the case capacities typed in/loaded for the 45/70 and 45/70nitro I thought I might ask. I wish I could have done this over I probably would have gone strait to the 45-90 or better yet 50 alaskan instead of wasting time with the 457wwm. I use trimmed down 45-90 brass anyway so I'm not saving anything on brass and I'm not gaining any on power, unless you can show me my pressures are way lower than I think they are.

rechamber for 45-90 and do the long throating and you should get 458 win mag performance...

i take that back...starline makes 45-100 (2.6") that is .2" longer than the 45-90...

long throat the 45-100 and get oal's to 3.25"ish or longer...

that should exceed the win mag in a ruger#1

so i spent some time in "boom sticks wildcatting garage" last night and did a big no-no...

i felt challenged by jeffeosso's challenge that you could not take a file and take off a belt on a loaded round...

well i took one of my loaded 45-70 rounds and a bastard file and took the rim from .610 to .532 without any problems or heat issues...my laptop is down so i cant show pics right now sooos yewl jest hafta use yer noggin to imagine a 45-70 with a .532 rim...

obviously to turn down rims it is best to use a lathe on empty brass. dont try this at home folks. but you could do the same thing to a lot of rimmed rounds to make a hybrid rim/belt/extractor groove.

you just use regular rimmed reamers but when you trim to std boltfaces it is kinda cool.

which brings me to this thread...

you could do the 45-70 nitro idea and do it in a bolt action if you want with better performance because of the higher preasures you could run. any guesses on performance???

if you want you can take the 450 marlin and take the belt off for the same thing.

yes i realize i just kinda reinvented the 450 marlin but for those who like the old school rimmed rounds you might like doing a 45-70, 45-90. 45-110, 45-120 in a bolt action instead of a double or a single shot with a little lathe time (or a little more time with a file )

a little feeding work but a reduced rim should be as hard to feed as a belt, no?

The Siamese Mauser will handle the 45/70 with the bolt face opened up. The 45/70 will feed from the magazine if you can do a decent job on the rails.

BTW the old Winchester 510 grain soft point .458 bullet was a two diameter bullet. Ahead of the crimp groove it was land diameter. You could seat it out a long way in a standard chamber and even further when long throated.