quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
(sic)

yes, i'll be glad to loan it out, once the Texans and Bubbas have dulled it to the first resharpening

jeffe

Aincha repeating yourself guess you gotta double up when talking doubles

killin me!!

Found a CHEAP handy 45-70 TODAY. God I'm strange
as Jeffe.

Those Handi Rifles are dirt cheap! Maybe (here I go thinking again) rechamber for a long throated 450 Alaskan?!?!

How much more long do you want than a .45-120!! That "little" cartridge on the left is a .45-70. I've found a few Handis myself!!

Tim

talked with Manson this morning.. not finalized YET

quote:

Originally posted by AFreeman:
jeff,
Just got back from Alaska and while there we stopped by a gunshop...seen one of those Spartans......YIKES . They look to be thrown together.

Jeez - a double rifle that sells for under 1K! What, pray tell, did you expect? It looks like what it is-not much!

WTF!!!! All this positive talking about 45/70's and NNNOOOOO boom!

Where's the boom?

Hasn't this project been completed yet?

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
WTF!!!! All this positive talking about 45/70's and NNNOOOOO boom!

Where's the boom?

Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering kaboom!



ZM

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
WTF!!!! All this positive talking about 45/70's and NNNOOOOO boom!

Where's the boom?

Maybe Boomy is in shock that there is a 45-70 thread here on Big Bore's, and it's not getting flamed.

Hog Killer

man, i am getting misty...

sorry for the lack of posting.

i have some reasons but they are all boring so i'll spare you.

i know i know nothing is more important than guns and talking about guns

so i applaud jeffeossos comming out of the "45-70 closet" with his new creation. it makes him a honoree member of the "we band of 45-70ers" if he likes it or not

if the red-rem (red=commie russia) spartan is only half bad the jeffeosso creation will indeed be one heck of a mid range versitile round in a :"pig working gun"


now what about a 450-110 in the spartan???

This thread is absolute proof that Boomy can't be anywhere near a computer at this point in time. Afterall, this thread would be worth at least 30 posts to him! LOL!

Y'all did see I posted this over on the double rifle forum a little while ago didnt you?

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976722183.htm

Dang! That 45-120 looks like it's got some capacity!! Anyone know the case capacity?

Here's a "chart" with the barnes 450 TSX at nominal
45/70 2.55 oal, 79 empty, 34.6 usable
45/90 (sharps) 3.3 oal, 93 empty, 53.9 usable
45/90(win) 2.88 oal, 88 empty, 45. usable
45/120 (sharps) 4.160 oal, 113 empty, 88.5 usable
45/125 (win) 3.63 oal, 144 empty, 94.1 usable
450 alaskan 2.79 oal, 97 empty, 56.6 usable
45/70 NITRO 3.162 oal, 79 empty, 60 usable usable

and remember, the 45/70 nitro uses STANDARD 45/70 brass and dies... not "who knows where you are going to pay ALOT for" other 45 brass.. and the 45-120 sharps is NOMINALLY a .451 bullet.

Further, replease remember we are talking about an action that was orginally designed for ~3" cartridge on feeding and extraction.

jeffe

Reloading dies (cheapest on midway)
45/70 18.99 LEE
45-100 43.99 lyman
45-90(either) 43.99 lyman
45-110 43.99 lyman
45-120sharps - 43.99 lyman

and doesn't everyone "complain" about lyman? next steps are reddings or rcbs for about240.


midways is NO BACKORDER on 45-120

or

you could use bertam basic (bertam must be austrailian for mush) for 3 bucks a case

OR
just use 45/70 at 40¢ each.(per 100)

So, to get 24gr of case, it's cheaper to BUY a long throated reamer than 100 "other" cases.

Of course, this ONLY works out in a break open gun.

Now Boomy... you can become a 45/70 NITRO-er... but I aint a 45/70 gummit-er

jeffe

Jeff quit fooling around and just rechamber to 450 3 1/4" nitro, and hang on.

Mine is fun at black powder express type loads, and gets real serious at nitro speeds

Hey Dave,
i bet it would be a faster way, but NOT cheap!! (like me)

jeffe

Jeffe, What can you do with the 405 Win?

el jeffe...

with the barnes banded solid you have 5 crimping options and you can get even more usable space out of the ol' 45-70...

i think with the banded solid you can get 70 usable instead of the 60 with the tsx's...now yer git'n close to the 458 win mag now

the barnes 500 gr crimped at the last one should git you a 3.4"oal

stuff two of those in yer rem spartan and yooz got a real low class safari double

i think you can take off the front some to get a larger meplat...but hey i am splitting hairs now

ok jeffe...how much usable space can you get with that last crimp????



the possibilities with the north forks are almost endless

Mike,
I haven't worked with a 405 in anything but a winnie lever gun. Rob, however, has done some extensive work with exactly this, in an encore.

Boomy,
great enthusiasm... but let's get back to practical... the 500 grain bullet just weighs TOO MUCH to push anywhere near 1900 fps in a 45/70... no length, but in the case of the barnes, it's length and weight... no way you can get the 500gr to useful in a barnes solid...

can't cheat "too" much... I would like to have about 1 diameter of bullet in the case.

It's a low buck, not low class


On the Northforks... Mike makes great bullets and this will be an option once the 450TSX is going!

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Hey, for $120 I could shoot 10 pheasants! Just offering possibilities...

Dan,

$120 - at $5 a box, thats 20 boxes, or 250 rounds for 10 pheasants.
Are you that bad a shot with a shotgun??

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Here's a "chart" with the barnes 450 TSX at nominal
45/70 2.55 oal, 79 empty, 34.6 usable
45/90 (sharps) 3.3 oal, 93 empty, 53.9 usable
45/90(win) 2.88 oal, 88 empty, 45. usable
45/120 (sharps) 4.160 oal, 113 empty, 88.5 usable
45/125 (win) 3.63 oal, 144 empty, 94.1 usable
450 alaskan 2.79 oal, 97 empty, 56.6 usable
45/70 NITRO 3.162 oal, 79 empty, 60 usable usable

jeffe

el jeff aka "the voice of reason"! Sounds good!
Have you completed the Handi-Rifle? I'm real curious as a brand new one is 200 or 3-400 for the 32" barrel version.

Glad to see you back boom!

OK! From wwwwwwaaaaayyyy out in left field! Let's cut this sumbitch back to 2.65 and neck down to .458. Then give it the long throat treatment and whalla, a rimmed 458 AR!!!

thanks torque...

jeffe...

you could make a custom hardcast "bore rider" so you can shoot those tsx's and real heavy cast lead in the same throat...i know it wont be "typical" for the big 5 but on bears and such it will be great. also do a cal length with the northforks....id be curious how fast they can fly. also try the 350 gr ones too. am i asking too much again???

boomy, you can shoot a washtub full of Remmy 405s, before you could save enough shooting cast bullets from a custom cut bullet mold.($100+)

Guys lets remember, jeffe is talking about a K.I.S.S. project. With CHEAP brass. These Spartans will never be a stopping rifle. They will be hell on pigs and bears, not to mention our favoritte targets, milk/water jugs.

Hog Killer

Just saw this on the Lever forums;

THE .457 WILD WEST MAGNUM

http://www.wildwestguns.com/Ammunition/ammunition.html

Rich,
thanks for posting that.. they are saying over 2000fps with 405.. and looks like they only went .1 longer...

Keith, you are perfectly correct.. just a "cheap" and maybe even considered CHEATIN way to get 25gr of water, or 60% more, with a specific load, in a break open... If the bullet is in the case 1 diameter, what more do you need? So, there's no reason to buy high dollar brass or custom dies.. just dirt cheap 45/70 stuff!!

jeffe

Cheap as possible!! It's my motto!!! I'm just thinking of other possibilities is all.

has anyone tested these hopped up loads for accuracy ??
if i remember corerectly the rifling rate of twist for the 45-70 is slower than that for a 45 cal nitro .
and these 45-70 were designed for lead bullets weren't they ?
i do not think you can rechamber to 450 nitro easily because 450 nitro has a thinner rim than the 45-70.
it would make more sense to me to rechamber to 45-120 , get a set of dies that will size to 458 and load to 450 x 3 1/4 nitro specs.
then you can take it to africa for dgr.

Tom,
marlin uses a 1x20 in 45/70 and 450 marlin... iirc, the 450nitros use a SLOWER twist than that. the 450 nitro and 500 nitro where designed for cast bullets, as well, no? (yep) so not really relavent, no?

Rechambering to 45-120 requires THREE DOLLAR brass, made by BERTRAM (i don't think anyone else makes it) that will stick at 35kpsi, or $250 for the LONG reamer and headspace gages, 50 for dies, and 300 for 100 pieces of brass

600 bucks to make it a 45-120, assuming you do your own work

or
$120 reamer(should be 20, assuming other will want to share) , using the dies and brass you already have.
$120, and still have $100 value left in the reamer.


1.5" 458 bullets requires a 21twist... which is what the TSX is...

remember, i ain't talking about a penetrate to kingdom come DGR (though it might work)

woodleigh 500gr PP wants a 22.6 twist or faster


jeffe

hi jeffe - the 450 and 500 nitro were always jacketed bullet rounds . their predecessors, the old bp (black powder) express were for cast bullets.

you can rent a reamer for $25 - i'll rent you mine for that.

you can shoot a 45-70 in a 45-120 but not vice versa.

you honestly seem to know more about twist rates than i, but don't lead bullets use a slower twist ?

i wish i knew how to read your post as i reply - seems there was something else i wqnted to ask. well later, tom

when reaming chambers for a rimmed round i work till the rim is flush with the end of the barrel. that headspaces it.

jeffe - i also have a 450 x 3 1/4 reamer and a 450 #2 that you can rent reasonably for $25

these might cost more to shoot .... but oh what fun it is....

Not to hijack your project Jeffe, I'm doing exactly as you suggest with a rented throating reamer from 4D for about $30 incl shipping both ways.....but, Bell 45-120 brass is less than $2 each at TOTW, got my Lyman 45-120 die set at Cabelas for $36, and the reamer is about $40-$50 total rented from 4D. I had my BC done by a smith for $100, but know of those that have done it by hand.

Tim

Bell Brass

http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers

Guys,
when I spoke with manson on this, he was going to do the same thing on his 45-90.

Tom,
thanks for the offer, but I am after CHEAP CHEAP... 45/70 brass is 42¢, and I have a pile of it, as well as dies, shell holder, etc.

there's a mechanicial issue with a MUCH longer round... and fatter rounds..

500gr at 2150 in a 7.5# rifle? not even me..

Tom, in all fairness, the 500NE uses the same twist as the 500 Express (not called bpe until post nitro)... but all modern guns are chambered for jacketed rounds, UNLESS made for BPE rounds...
Remington sells 405gr reloading bullets and loaded ammo, i'll bet their guns are designed to shoot them

WRong target, on bell brass, it's no longer made in 45-120, as it's now owned by jamison.

quote:

but I am after CHEAP CHEAP... 45/70 brass is 42¢, and I have a pile of it, as well as dies, shell holder, etc.

42 pennies for brass and a buck a pop for the bullet. The TSX's kind of max out the cheap meter.