quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
CTF,

Lee manual, MODERN RELOADING SECOND EDITION by Richard Lee:

300-gr Barnes X: H4198 maximum 72.5 gr (compressed) >>> 2720 fps <<< 57,437 psi, 3.300" COL

My variation with 300-grain TTSX:
In the WinCzechster, 24-7/8" barreled .458 Win., I went up to 75.0 grains of H4198 and got only 2712 fps MV and no pressure signs,
3.390" COL, 57*F, F-215 primer, Hornady case,
but 3-shot accuracy was 2-MOA.

71.0 grains H4198, other specs same, gave 2638 fps, 0.53-MOA 3-shot, and Hornady case was only about 99% full. Not compressed with the TTSX seated out just a little long: 3.390" COL.
That will fit in the Spruce King's box,
and I know you are adult enough to try it safely.
But do tell the kids not to try that without adult supervision.

Rip ...

Thank you !!
I don't even know if I got 2 moa accuracy with the 300 gr load. As it was a bear load , I wasn't overly concerned with fine accuracy. I just let my old velocifile tendencies run wild.
It was plenty accurate enough for me to deflate some bears in a most satisfying way. And I killed some deer with it.
I will be trying HBN powder tumbled bullets next time I reload. See if the group size diminishes. But I won't be slowing them down any. 2700 fps is a good 300 gr velocity.

CTF,

Yawohl, 2700 fps with the 300-grain TTSX or TSX is nice in a .458 Win.
and 2 MOA (2.08" at 100 yards) will shoot into a 1.04" spot on a bear at 50 yards, and 0.52" spot on bear at 25 yards if he is still coming.
Punch him between the eyes.

COL of 3.390" is perfect for crimping on the bottom cannelure of the 300-grain TTSX,
and that pointy plastic tip feeds well from the Ruger M77 Mk II magazine box, and the Pre-64 M70 .30-06 magazine box on the WinCzechster.
72 to 74 grains of H4198 would be mildly compressed and lock the bullet in place with a firm crimp.
Using whatever lot of H4198 you have in the Spruce King, don't go too much past 2700 fps, with whatever charge it takes, working up as usual.
IMHO, that's comfortable, and comforting for a deer hunter in bear country.
Perfect Kodiak deer rifle.
Perfect Kodiak goat rifle.
Perfect "African Sheep Rifle," but for sheep and smaller varmints you might want to fine tune the load for accuracy,
and keep some 450-grain FN solids in the bottom of the magazine.

Rip ...

With deer it was a head or ribs only shot !!! No big bones !!#!!

Which was pretty standard for the full power 458. Any big bones that got hit kinda made a mess.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

That is not correct.

You're just looking at things UPSIDE DOWN.

Ah, shucks, sorry I mentioned SD, that always
... but then, any posts, even about SD, dynamic or static, are good for the mission.
Carry on gents.

Rip ...

4sixteen,
Thanks for the reply, that is interesting.
RL-7 has always been dyn-0-mite in the .458.
IIRC, that was Jack Lott's favorite powder in the .458 Win.
Still didn't stop him from "inventing" his namesake cartridge, trying to usurp The King for personal glory.
Well, the 350-grain TSX is a little longer, maybe has a higher start pressure?
Helps gets pressures and velocities up, still low pressure in The King of Cartridges.

Alderella is all dressed up.
9.0 pounds exactly, as shown, this girl is well built:



Details (gunporn) to follow.

Rip ...

.458/350-gr SD = 0.238
.416/300-gr SD = 0.248


Rip ...

The standard formula for SD is bullet weight divided by diameter squared. This gives an answer that is proportionate to a more accurate formula: bullet weight divided by bullet radius times bullet radius times 3.14..., the formula for the area of the base of the bullet. So if the objects are cylindrical in shape and have the same homogeneous density then two cylinders that have the same SD will have the same length.


Eliminate the error of the circular base, go with two squares. One is 4 inches square, the other 5. So one has 16 sq in and the other 25 sq in. Lets say that one cu in of each weighs one ounce. Since the area in sq in equals the weight, one has 16 sq in and 18 ounces while the other has 25 sq in and 25 ounces; both have the same per sq in value, which is what the SD is proportionate to. so any bullet with a SD of __ will have an average height (given similar density) of another bullet of different caliber but with the same SD.

Shilen stainless barrel and Ruger satin stainless action and Wisner chromoly African rear sight and NECG front sight and stainless muzzle-thread protector,
all bead-blasted and run through the bluing hot tub at the spa,
(except folding hood parts and beads that were already finished):



No tan lines!

Rip ...

Centerline on rear sight needs some highlighting:

This is not a tan line on the front sight ramp, just a smudge from my fingers with BREAK Free CLP on them after oiling the threads on the muzzle cap:

Nothing metrosexual about this front sight:

It's all business, no silly aesthetics, other than form follows function, most beautiful of all:



Unfortunately, NECG strikes again, and the Moon Bead won't fold down all the way until the hole is milled a little bit.
Custom fitting required, again. Second time this has happened to me.
The .458 B&M came from SSK just like that.
The exalted gunsmith there forgot to check for that until after he had assembled it too, and just shipped it on out like that also.
Last time the Gunsmith locally did not forget.
Lord works in mysterious ways.
A trifling minor irritant to Alderella.
But a well-built girl like her has appearances to maintain.
A girl with no tan lines is the type to have everything just right.
Why, she has even begun speaking Hillbilly with a French accent.
Cajun!

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Alderella is all dressed up.
9.0 pounds exactly, as shown, this girl is well built:



Details (gunporn) to follow.

Rip ...

Rip; that looks Real Nice ! Really sharp !!
I really like how the rear sight is far enough forward so it will be easier to be seen correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
It's all business, no silly aesthetics, other than form follows function, most beautiful of all:



Unfortunately, NECG strikes again, and the Moon Bead won't fold down all the way until the hole is milled a little bit.
Custom fitting required, again. Second time this has happened to me.
The .458 B&M came from SSK just like that.
The exalted gunsmith there forgot to check for that until after he had assembled it too, and just shipped it on out like that also.
Last time the Gunsmith locally did not forget.
Lord works in mysterious ways.
A trifling minor irritant to Alderella.
But a well-built girl like her has appearances to maintain.
A girl with no tan lines is the type to have everything just right.
Why, she has even begun speaking Hillbilly with a French accent.
Cajun!

Rip ...

Kinda like gettin a devil's club thorn in . Wait a bit and it will fester so u can pop it out !
Or in the bead's case, it gets a metal massage

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
Think I'll stick with that 350gr TSX load in my 458 WM. Good results with the 350gr Speer except in 416 caliber but have always seen excellent terminal performance with Barnes X in the medium and heavy calibers. A 416 300gr TSX at about 2500 fps impact speed recovered from Bull Moose.

Real nice !!!!
I tumble all my bullets in slickems powder ( used to moly tumble, now tumble in HBN powder. ) .

I found the 350 gr 458 Speer to be a bit sticky in the bore and wasn't comfortable getting 2500 fps before I started slicking them up.
But either way, they are excellent hunting bullets! Kill very well and don't blood shock ALOT of meat !

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:


And the stock was made by who?

Cougarz,

That is an HS Precision stock.
The aluminum bedding block goes all the way to the forend tip where I drilled into it when inserting the sling stud and anchored it with a nut and J-B Weld.
That stock was made for the Ruger M77 Mark II before the M77 Hawkeye existed.
HSP discontinued it, but they are bringing it back this fall, for the Ruger Hawkeye, IIRC from a previous post on this thread.
That one should work for the Mark II as well as the Hawkeye, as did this one.
It weighs about 2.5 pounds, like an equal volume of walnut.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Kinda like gettin a devil's club thorn in . Wait a bit and it will fester so u can pop it out !
Or in the bead's case, it gets a metal massage

I used my Dremel Tool to pop that pimple on Alderella's nose.
Someday a real Gunsmith might smooth it out with a milling machine,
but this will do for now:


Rip ...

A 3/32" Silver bead is what the Pre-'64 African used, same as this bead.
I will fill the center line on the rear sight with white enamel:

I have not tried a muzzle brake on Alderella,
but do not need one with such a gentle cartridge as the .458 Win.
Next range trip will see how much velocity was lost in going from 27.5" to 25" barrel length.
It will not be a huge amount.

Rip ...

A reminder of how a SAAMI .458 Win. with 3.4" box can be made more versatile.
It can be a single-shot rifle and a magazine-repeater at the same time:



Rip ...

Picking up my new 458 Whitworth tomorrow. Will take a few glamor shots and send them to you, Ron, for show and tell. Don't remember if it wears one cross bolt or two, but have the jig and drills to add one if not. Prolly consider Devcon steel bedding. Gotta think of a name for the new girl in town.....

Looks good. I had a rifle CerraKoted and a bit too much of it in the bolt take down button hole.
It got missed by the . I had to clean out the hole and put a new button and spring in.
Kind of a bummer. But It got sorted out.

Les,
Woodelle Whitworth is taken.
Would love to see pictures of her sister.

Rip ...

CTF,

Alderella may have an acne scar on her nose, but she is still awfully concerned about her looks!
She wants to know if wearing a scope makes her butt look big?





And she wants to know which scope makes her look sexier?


Rip ...

She shoots pretty good for first time out with the SlugHunter.
With Hornady Factory Load, 14 shots fired today to get on paper, and then a few 3-shot groups at 50 yards, her best:

Here is the BENCHMARK handload for comparison:

So the 500-gr DGS Hornady factory load, Superformance, lost only 6.0 fps for each inch of barrel cut from 27.5" to 25".

The 71.0-gr BENCHMARK handload was a little faster, but lost 10.4 fps for each inch of barrel cut from 27.5" to 25".

If we assume these rates are constant over the 20" to 28" range, then both loads will have the same velocity in a 23" barrel!



This may or may not be true?
The ancient .425 WR tests showed a maximum velocity at 28" barrel, no gain after that ...
Self quote from earlier in this thread:
****************************************************************************************************
The 1912 Westley Richards "catalogue" as Terry Wieland would spell it
included an excerpt from the writings of Henry Sharp.
Using the latest technology of 1910 (ballistic pendulum?)
Mr. Sharp "chronographed" and cut down somebody's rifle barrel from 32" to 18".
"Chronograph" or instrumental distance was 90 feet.
WR factory claimed 2350 fps with the .435-cal/410-gr bullet.
90-ft instrumental velocities as the barrel was cut:
32": 2318 fps average for seven shots
28": 2319 fps
24": 2260 fps
18": 2095 fps.

Going from 32" to 28" gained (+) 0.25 fps/inch of shortening,
from 28" to 24" lost (-) 14.75 fps/inch
from 24" to 18" lost (-) 27.50 fps/inch.

That is according to 1910 science and technology.
With the bigger bore ratio of the .458 Win.Mag.,
maybe shortening it from 27.5" to 25" will have less effect on a 500-grain bullet than would occur with the 410-grain bullet in the .425 WR?
The prediction would be about 37 fps loss for the .425 WR.
I am predicting about 25 fps loss for the .458 Win.Mag.
I doubt that the .458 Win.Mag. will give greater velocity when shortened from 27.5" to 25" ...
(Hey! That was a joke.)
****************************************************************************************************
Well, I was close on my handload, predicted -25 fps, actual was -26 fps.
Hornady factory load lost only 18 fps for the 2.5" chop.
Might lose more per inch in going from 25" to 20",
but I am not participating in that fad.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
CTF,

Alderella may have an acne scar on her nose, but she is still awfully concerned about her looks!
She wants to know if wearing a scope makes her butt look big?

And she wants to know which scope makes her look sexier?


Rip ...

That's a fancy and beautiful rifle!!!!

Can't wait to your upcoming load report.

Go with the Leupold...hands down a proven combo

Hmmm...why aren't you going 20"??? Make it a jungle boomer

Yup, at 20" it would Roar and Beller
I haven't done it in a while, but I used to shoot the Spruce King one handed. When I did it the first time it was to see if I could. After that it was to keep myself tuned up in case a bear ever did get to me or I injured 1 hand or arm at work . I wasn't trying for great accuracy beyond 7 yards.
I'm not tall enough to 1 hand a long barrel.

Looks like you got a keeper there Ron !!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
CTF,

Alderella may have an acne scar on her nose, but she is still awfully concerned about her looks!
She wants to know if wearing a scope makes her butt look big?





And she wants to know which scope makes her look sexier?


Rip ...

An NX8 would be PURRFECT on her !

Well doggies! She might like that, 1-8x24.
Eye-relief is 3.75"
Weight is 17.0 oz.
The lowly SlugHunter and Ultralight have their appeal, price-wise too.
Any of those 30mm-tubed scopes will need some OEM 30mm Ruger rings, which I do not yet have,
strongest available, when installed and tightened properly.
I do hate those tiny T-10 Torx-head screws in the ring tops, but at least there are 4 of them in each ring top.
I'll just have to get some 30mm "Real Ruger" rings and see if the ringtop screws can be replaced.

Rip ...

Here is my rule of thumb for 500-grainer velocity versus barrel length chopping of a .458 Win.:

10 fps per inch between 28" and 24"
20 fps per inch between 24" and 20"

That is an overall average of 15 fps per inch from 28" down to 20" barrel length.

If you are using a barrel longer than 28" you are eventually going to be losing velocity with each inch added, so must have some peculiar reason to do so.
Like maybe just crazy for long barrels?

If you are using a barrel less than 20", you are a fashion-conscious dude.
Or just crazy for short barrels.
Crazy makes the world go round.

Rip ...

Gustavo,

Thanks for supporting THE MISSION.
400-grain HV testing in Alderella is pending.
And the Iron WaterBoard Buffalo needs to be rounded up from pasture to catch a few 450-grain FN solids at 2350 fps,
and compare that to other super-penetrators I have known.
20" barrel? Moi?
Sorry, this birdman is not into fads.

My 458 WM Remington 798 was equipped from the factory with a 26" barrel. The extra weight and unwieldy feel didn't seem to be worth the marginal increase in muzzle speed over a 23" barrel so I got it cut down to that length.

So from 26" to 24" I lost 10 fps per inch = 20 fps, and from 24" to 23" I lost another 20 fps. Total muzzle speed lost is 40 fps. I'm ok with that since the rifle has a handier and lighter feel.

4sixteen,

That is a pretty good SWAG.
Were you able to chronograph it with same load at 26" and 23" lengths?

And, BTW, was the Remington 798 in .458 Win. built with an opened-up M98 action like for .375 H&H, or did they leave it as standard length M98 for the .458 Win. like my Whitworth was?

Rip ...

Would have been interesting to see if the actual loss in muzzle speed is about 40 fps but didn't do any chronograph work when it had the 26" barrel.

The action on my 375 H&H Magnum Zastava LKM70 Full Stock Carbine (now converted to 416 RM) is identical to the action on my 458 WM Remington 798. I thought the Whitworth, Interarms and Remington 798 actions should be the same Zastava action.