Dane,
That is a much better quality reamer drawing than the one at your website, last time I looked.
I'll send you a PM here, and we can talk about brass.
I know of no source for the .416 Rigby basic now.
Used to find Norma .416 Rigby basic with blank headstamp, think I got it from Huntingtons, years ago.
Hornady will not sell theirs to private individuals, last time I checked, but they do provide it to vendors like Quality Cartridge for Pete's use.
Jamison used to sell 470 Mbogo basic, full length, about 2.945" long.
2.945" is how the new 500 Mbogo brass turns out,
using the Hornady basic, by Qual-Cart.

And that reminds me that I have been waiting about two years for .395 Tatanka brass from Qual-Cart.
I used the last of my Norma basic to form .395 Tatanka and will have it hand engraved with a headstamp if I must travel to Africa with it.
Pete said the holdup was due to tooling from a supplier.
I gotta call him again.
He does have tooling for 500 Mbogo and he lists it as one of his wildcats at his website, just like he lists .395 Tatanka, but I have not gotten that yet.
There is hope ...

Brother Rip,

To build (heavily reinforced) a 500 Jeffery on a standard (Czech VZ 24 re-carbonized/carborized/caburized .040" deep.), what brass, and what reamer?

I will use Duane's lowers, a merciful recoil pad, mercury in the butt stock, treble recoil lugs and at least treble on the cross bolts.

I will go with a dense, heavy and large stock.

The 416 Rigby project will get a slightly lighter stock.

The 404 Jeffery effort will be an alpine rifle by comparison.

JC,
brass, as a thing, does't matter as long as its jamison or horneber .. just maker certain your chamber and dies match -- do yourself good, and use an enfield ... its WIDER

heh, of course, the 500 AccRel fits in a standard length action and is far easier to get to feed -- no rebate either

the 500 Mbogo and 500 AccRel use nice cheap bullets, as compared to a .505

Bro'Dart,
Agree with Jeffe.
Horneber or Jamison brass, stay away from Bertram.
I doubt Hornady will ever make 500 Jeffery. If they would, I am sure they could get it right.

The only choice for complete standardization is the CIP spec for the 500 Schuler.

Of course you could use the CIP brass spec for the 500 Jeffery and just make sure the reamer maker does not make the shoulder angle minimum of the reamer smaller than the maximum of the brass as shown on the CIP drawing.
I am flabbergasted that the CIP drawing for the 500 Jeffery shows such an error.

Start by getting some reloading dies, and the brass specs that those dies are set for.
Then get a reamer to match those reloading die specs.

Fire form your brass and engrave the barrel of your rifle to match whatever is compatible with the headstamp of the brass.

The extractor grooves on the Bertram brass were smaller diameter than Jamison brass, from discussion of members here.
You also need to make sure your rifle extractor is fitted properly to the brass.

The 500 Schuler Jumbos were all made on standard M98 actions with in-line, straight-stack magazines, four-down.
Barrels were 60 cm, 23.62".
I am aware of no problems with feeding or pressure damage/locking lug setback in those.
Of course it would depend on the handloads!

Alf had a 500 Jeffery he loaded with hot loads listed in the reloading pages here.
He ruined it with lug setback, and was in need of repairs.
I am not sure of what action or metallurgy he had, original Magnum Mauser, standard M98, or what, dunno.

The original Magnum Mauser 500 Jeffery rifles had 24" to 26" barrels and held only three down in the box in a staggered Mauser stack.

Jack Lott wrote about 500 Jeffery owners rebarreling to other large chamberings when the supply of generic "500 Gecado" brass dried up.
He also railed about the failures of rebated rim cartridges.
Personally, I will tolerate no more than 1/2 mm rebate.
RUM brass is OK,
500 Jeffery is not, unless you do the straight stack trick for feeding.
That is how the short lived 425 WR got by for a little while.

If I did not have the better option of 500 Mbogo in a Magnum Mauser or equivalent (CZ 550 Magnum),
I would get 500 Schuler brass from Horneber and go JUMBO all the way, headstamp with all inclusive barrel engraving (.500 Schuler "Jumbo" 12.7 x 70 mm), dies, reamer, straight stack, and M98 standard action.
Max pressure allowed: 3300 bar = 47,850 psi

Jeffe's 500 AR in an M98 or Ruger M77 MkII or Hawkeye would be a lot easier and capable of higher presures for about equal to "Jumbo" ballistics, at 10Kpsi higher pressures, I am guessing.

With the 500 Mbogo in a CZ 550 Magnum, I get only 3 down in the box,
but have enough room to surf the 4th cartridge off the top of the box when closing the bolt.
The feed job required reshaping the ramp (dished out in center a small amount) and polishing the rails and insides of that .416 Rigby box.
I also put a Dakota M76 follower spring in it, as it seemed a bit stronger.
No porpoising, and feeds with the 75% meplat of an S&H 535-grain brass FN solid, radiused meplat.
.510-caliber/450-grain GSC HVs are really cool at 2800 fps. NonCon.

in all cases, within the confines of the hobbiest or not-dgr-specialist, both the 50 mbogo and 500 AccRel will ring the bell .. and not have the feeding NOR standardization issues of some other rounds .. RIP and I have taken good care to keep the prints standardized ....

I expect RIP's estimates of the pressure being about spot on ... as the 500 AccRel has the capacity of the 495a2 (though different length, shoulders, belts, and NO REBATE), those pressure estimates are probably correct.

with my 500 jeffe, i have a hard time both filling the case and staying UNDER 2400fps .. with my AR, I am using faster powder ... heh

for a CZ 550 magnum action, the Mbogo
for a smaller action, the AccRel

Choice is Ginger or Marrianne

Great point about the hobbyist and not DGR specialist. The 500 Accrel is a modern 500 Jeffery without the flies in the ointment. Now to just get a coffin floor plate made for the Ruger M77 MKII for the 500 Accrel for 3 down with ease unless you wanted to go with the 416 rigby conversion. Again it would be great to see a company like AHR that would to a conversion package for the 500 Accrel. Felt recoil of the 500 Accrel in your light for muzzle energy gun was very tolerable.

So is the 500 Accrel nicknamed 500 "Marianne"

Bro'Dart,
I think what Jeffe, boom stick, and I are saying is ... Don't do it!
Do a 500 AR on the standard M98 or a 500 Mbogo on a Magnum Mauser.
Letter Rip

I do not have a choice about calibers. I will be selling both 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs cartridges. I can use CZ actions (or Enfield P-14s) for the test mules.

RCBS makes dies.

I will start out by making a pressure barrel for my pressure/accuracy test mule. I will PM you to make sure that I order a reamer that will work in the Heym and other commercial 500 Jeffery rifles.

The 505 Gibbs should be a lot more straightforward. Since I already own a very nice 416 Rigby, I will forgo turning an 1898 into one. The 404 should be plenty in that platform.

I will have to offer ammunition with either the Jamison or the Horneber brass. That way a customer can order depending on what his rifle was designed to feed.

I can send some dummy rounds to New Guy as well.

I do like the looks of both of your cartridges; I will offer those. If someone places an order I will have some brass dies and loads already to go, along with attribution to the respective creators.

LD

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:

The 505 Gibbs should be a lot more straightforward. Since I already own a very nice 416 Rigby, I will forgo turning an 1898 into one. The 404 should be plenty in that platform

LD

"I will forgo turning an 1898 into one. The 404 should be plenty in that platform"


Will a 505 Gibbs fit in a Standard Mauser 98 ?

I didn't think it would - hence the Magnum Mauser.

The Gibbs is the reason the magnum amuser was made, under contract, and sold only to England. The Jeffery fits rather nicely in a mauser, and did before the ,magnum was made.

No, not within reason, can a Gibbs fit in a STD amuser.

Surely Bro'Dart misspoke.
No Gibbs in a standard!
However Jeffe has bobbled too.
The Magnum Mausers were available for the earlier .416 Rigby and .505 Gibbs on or before 1911.
You'd think if it was solely for the Gibbs, it would have had a larger bolt diameter.
Regarding length, no more than that of the .416 Rigby is needed since they seated bullets so short-nosed in the Gibbs.
Mr. Leonard started and finished building his 21 original 500 Jeffery rifles on Magnum Mauser actions, so it is written, about 1928 through 1937 at least, when he built the "Deluxe" one for C. Fletcher Jamieson, via W.J. Jeffery firm serial number 25554.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
The Gibbs is the reason the magnum amuser was made, under contract, and sold only to England. The Jeffery fits rather nicely in a mauser, and did before the ,magnum was made.

No, not within reason, can a Gibbs fit in a STD amuser.

Thanks

That's what I thought / remembered but couldn't look it up.

I know when I have my Gibbs out that everyone likes comparing it to a Standard Mauser.

.

So I did verify in Speed et al, page 93, (Mauser)Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles:

"Birth of the Magnum Action"

"The very first Magnum Mauser actions were thus made around 1899-1900, for Rigby."

Rigby asked for it in 1899 to handle a double rifle cartridge, their very popular .400/350 Rimmed.

Then .416 Rigby in 1911.
(.375 H&H 1912, BTW)
Then .505 Gibbs in 1913.

The .505 Gibbs was make-doo-shoe-horned into an action not designed for it.
Rigby designed the .416 Rigby to perfectly fit the Mauser Magnum action.
Sorta like a 500 Mbogo.
Letter Rip

quote:

Rigby asked for it in 1899 to handle a double rifle cartridge, their very popular .400/350 Rimmed.

Then .416 Rigby in 1911.
(.375 H&H 1912, BTW)
Then .505 Gibbs in 1913.

The .505 Gibbs was make-doo-shoe-horned into an action not designed for it.

Yep, although I wonder when the first .375H&H was built upon a magnum action.
True that the 505 is pushing it a little even in a magnum length action.
Seems to me that the use of the magnum length action was more a marketing tool of the time rather than out of necessity for anything other than the 416 and 505.
The 425, 500, 404, 333, 280 Ross, and 375H&H were all originally designed for use in a standard length action but all eventually were offered in the magnum when Mauser made them available to makers other than Rigby.

A side note, the bolt follower in my Schuler is made up by soldering a piece of steel tubing on top of a flat plate which rides on top of the magazine spring. Nice simple way to do it and keep the shells perfectly centered in the mag.

STD amuser?
Is that another term for prostitute?
I think your auto correct is taking over. Blackberry?

remember, ya'll, there is a BOUNTY for an old kynoch load.. as we have seen in period drawings, the 500 jeffery was NEVER loaded with cordite .. but I'd like to pull a period piece of ammo and see for myself ..

two HUNDRED usd
http://forums.accuratereloadin...281026831#8281026831

someone help me to prove RDB correct ...

all real contemporary documents state no known cordite load.

Hey jeffeosso.

I see on the cartridgedrawing for the .500AR, that the C.O.L is nomore than 3.35"....However if the C.O.L were extended to 3.60", one could shoot the heavy 570-600grainers without stealing "powder-room" from the case?- Am I correct?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The .505 Gibbs was make-doo-shoe-horned into an action not designed for it.

Well, did they (Gibbs) have any other alternative action to use ?


Did Gibbs design it to "just fit" the Magnum Mauser or did he design the cartridge
and then look for something to put it in ?


(The above are genuine questions)

.

Jens,
if one take the rigby case to 2.85, and uses woodliegh bullets, then you can go to 3.6-3.65 .. in which case, one has the 500 Mbogo, which my friends Dave, RIP, and Rich have all done.. then it fits in a long action.

500
the 505 gibbs was designed as a round to use the cordite powders, and it required the magnum mauser or enfield (after the fact) - WWI ended the plant and the contract .

i BELIEVE the gibbs was designed, then the magnum was built .. but, in anyevent, the REASON i know that the 500 jeffe wasn't loaded with cordite, without the backup docs we ahve, is that the jeff and the gibbs are loaded to LOW pressure.. and the jeffe somewhat hotter .. and this couldn't be done with cordite and low pressure .. its a requirement/constraint on capacity ...

Well jeffeosso..

I think II`L keep the short case. With a long bullet, it will look like the old 9x57mauser with its 281grain bullet in supersized version.
What Im interested in is a .510cal bullet of 535grain doing 2300 Ft/sec with the potential of more velocity or heavier bulletweight. I believe the .500AR is a splended cartridge

Jens,
why thank you -- I have acheived over 2450 with the 535, though making the 500 jeffe powerlevels was pretty easy with H335 ..

I beleive its a pretty neat round .. sort of like an even more modern 500 jeffe ... the schuler/jeffery was designed to be a compact monster, given the powders of the day ... I think, and designed it as such, that this achieves those same goals, with less powder .. and yes, it is higher pressure than a 500 jeffe -- but not as high as a winmag or lott.

still looking for that ONE piece of ammo that can disprove all the historical documents and my suposition

Yes i would like to see that ,Kevin Robertson said his 505 velocity was 2150 with the cordite ,what was the 'Real '' velocity of the Jeffery i wonder ? 2200 ?

The "Any Shot You Want" Rifle, Cartridge and Reloading Manual I think lists a 570g bullet with 104g H4898 at 2300 fps within traditional 500 Jeffery pressures (in other words low for today's rifles). I've had mine up to 2500 fps with the 570 TSX with no pressure signs but see no need for it myself. It's much more pleasant to shoot at 2300 fps.

Regards,

Chuck

2500 fps ?

Why bother, doesn't kill any better from what I have seen.

Which 570gn bullet were they using at that velocity ?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
still looking for that ONE piece of ammo that can disprove all the historical documents and my suposition

I'd really like this one piece of ammo -- someone please help me to find it

One can never disprove a negative. In this case it it would require looking at every lot of ammo by every maker. I think the point has been made.

This was an interesting thread. This revealed much of the true story around 500J and 500S ctg dimension and history. Once again, I would like the say thank you to RDB for starting this.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
One can never disprove a negative.

http://www.graveyardofthegods....ntprovenegative.html

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
In case it it would require looking at every lot of ammo by every maker.

That it would be.. all BOTH of them,

But don't rely on any modern mistakes .. how about a 1934 discussion of Messers Leonard and Greener? I've translated/decyphered this document previously ..



So, efbie, do you have anything to add, such as a pre1940 kynock cartridge or adding money to the reward?

Thanks for posting about cordite. I always thought it was like long noodles.

Jeffe,

I agree with both your initial assumption based on pure logic and subsequent facts found. Seems both unlikely and not workable.

What I am saying is breaking open up a few rounds does not prove it was never done.

Now if someone found a box labeled "cordite". ( I know Hell could freeze over, agreed). Just if that did turn up then there would be a whole load of questions as to what that was.How did it work. Time to get out the bullet puller for a look. Maybe - Start a new thread.

But, it seems like a dead horse situation at this point. I think we all get it, the 470NE and 505 would not be the size of banana's if cordite would work in that small a case.

We are very close to agreeing..

Here's the physical...
the 500 jeffe and the 505 gibbs are basically interchangable in terms of "classic" or "book" claims ..
if we split the differences and average them, they are 530gr at 2300 (525 vs 535, 2250 vs 2350) --

and both CLAIM the same pressure ..
with very large differences in case capacity

Then enter the schuler -- No point in arguing ANYTHING about the legacy of the schuler to jeffe, its not relevent for this ...

The schuler was loaded with german flake powder - I think we all agree on this..

and the schuler is within 1% of the case capacity of the jeffery -- again, its just cold hard facts

and then add in the Proprietary Cases of the early 20th century .. this is why we have the 470, 465, and 475 various NEs .. all doing EXACTLY the same thing-- matching the 450 NE .. two reasons - 1: britan outlawing the 45 caliber in civilian hands AND 2: no one able to use the other's rounds, without permission/marketing .. the same thing is ~500gr at ~2150 from test barrels (no arguement that this was a "book" rather than real vel.)
the matter is that these rounds all clustered around about the same case capacity (except the 450 #2, which is larger and lower peak pressure - and later)

the 500 jeff is SLIGHTLY larger than those .. about 5%, but with a much higher vel .. resulting in, if one used the same powder, an increase in pressure, as the 500 jeff had a SHORTER barrel than spec NE stuff .. (just a matter of history, not conjecture)

The gibbs is rated about the same pressure and vel of the 500 jeff .. but the case is MUCH larger (about 15% larger) ,, and VERY much larger than the run of the mill middle NE.. about 20 percent larger.

If one then takes the rule of thumb of you realize 25% of the increase in case volume, at the same pressure, that returns 1.05*2150, or right at the magic 2257.5 (if you add in increased bore diameter, you get slightly more)

therefore, it is proven that the GIBBS was certainly loaded with the same cordite as the NEs. Which history and documents prove out.

HOWEVER, the jeffery, being only 5% greater capacity than the NEs, if loaded with the SAME powder, at the SAME pressure would result in "only" 2203.75 fps .. and since the NEs where loaded with the slowest cordite, the resulting facts are that the 500 jeffe could NOT have been loaded with the slowest known cordite and acheive its KNOWN velocities, even if we assume it really only did 2300.

Therefore, with the facts being the 500 jeffe and the 505 gibbs being loaded to the same pressure, with the same barrel length, and about the same external ballistics, the 500 jeffe could NOT have been loaded with cordite and acheived these results.

Its literally that straight forward .. and that's discounting that the schuler was KNOWN to achieve these results with FLAKE powder.

In short, its not possible that the 500 jeffe, loaded with the same powder (there's different kinds of cordite, but the big cases used the same cordite) and achived SUPERIOR results than the gibbs, at the same pressure.

Does that make sense?

And, with supporting contemporary documents starting it was loaded with german flake, "no known cordite load" by the guys that basically "invented" it (and built the first of them), one can readily determine that EVERY article stating it was loaded with cordite was a mistatement, as they assumed the british loaded it with cordite, rather than a 26 mile trip in a ship over the channel of some german flake powder...

AND we have evidence that the english readily used german flake powder in the 275 Rigby, which is nothing but a 7x57 with a Proprietary name, to anglify the germanic round .. It was NEVER, not once, loaded with cordite.

its all of 576 miles from Hamburg to London -- in an era that was all about sailing ... it was "invented" between the wars, when there was lively trade, and germany was exporting everything it COULD to pay back the war debts -- This was the roaring 20s, for goodness sake. Germany was making guns for export, and could ONLY make sporting rounds/guns for internal use .. AND britian was experimenting with using the new flake powder in all shorts of things.. as well as buying the brass from germany ..

that's an important FACT .. EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF KYNOCK AMMO WAS GERMAN BRASS in this period. Every one.. its kind of nonsensical to assume they wouldn't also import the powder, yeah?

In short, taking relevent history and putting the pieces together, along with the contraints of internal ballistics, barring contemporary smaple contradicting Mr Leonard, its not even remotely probable that the 500 jeffe was every FACTORY loaded with cordite.

QEd, right?

In recent email exchanges with David Little (of Kynamco) he described personally examining 500 Jeffery ammo loaded by Kynoch, with English bullets, CORDITE powder and the paper disc covering the cordite.

I am good with his research and trust his observations.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeffeosso:


Here's the physical...
the 500 jeffe and the 505 gibbs are basically interchangable in terms of "classic" or "book" claims ..


Its funny how something written by Frank Barnes becomes a fact nobody dares to dispute....

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
In recent email exchanges with David Little (of Kynamco) he described personally examining 500 Jeffery ammo loaded by Kynoch, with English bullets, CORDITE powder and the paper disc covering the cordite.

I am good with his research and trust his observations.

Really?
Scan it and post it.

You mentioned earlier that your researce showed a plug on the bullet, not that he had pulled cordite .. which time are you fibbing?

Bobby
i took the adveritsed vels and bullets weights and averaged them, to reduce my typing .. unlike a couple posters (posuers?) I have actually loaded, reloaded, and shot the 500 jeffe and 505 gibbs .. If Frank had mistyped that the 500 was loaded with cordite, I'd be just as adamant that he was incorrect.

BTW, to bring it back up.. RDB's sources keep erroding and his story keeps changing. ... First it was Dave Manson -- who denies any knowledge/prints.. then A2, who denies any proof for the matter, then bullets that LOOKED like they might have been loaded with cordite ...

All the while denying the guy that actually BUILT the first 21 of them stating, Flatly, that he did not know of ANY cordite load for the round.

Funny how the revisionist comes out .. The guy that built the first 21 500 jeffery rifles flatly states "no known cordite load" ... it doesn't get any more authentic than that.

But, of course, Bwana Dane says that his sum bigbore expereince was a brief period, with is own wildcat, 10 years ago, and has never taken a head of game with them. By his own statements. He also has, in "internet" print on his website, decried that the 275 rigby was actually called the 7mm Rigby .. and of course all the headstamps and rifle engravings must be wrong.

Funny how that works

quote:

Funny how the revisionist comes out .. The guy that built the first 21 500 jeffery rifles flatly states "no known cordite load" ... it doesn't get any more authentic than that.

Jeffeosso,
May I suggest that you may be ascribing the above mentioned proofhouse sheet to the 500 Jeffery maker erroneously?
To my understanding, the maker's name is Lenord, not Leonard.
Also, If the "Leonard" on the proof record is in fact the same Leonard/Lenord gunmaker, why would he not know EXACTLY what charge and bullet weight the gun would need to be proved at? After all, he did build the Jefferys prior to this Westley being proved. BTW, any one know where this Westley is now?
Is the Mr. Leonard whom filled out (and signed) the form and the "Mr. Leonard" mentioned in the note the same or a different person?

If you do some research it is obvious that the vast majority of original Jefffery info was lost during the fire bombings both in Germany and in England. The few scant bits of written evidence that do exist are not the entire history.

The 1928 English Kynoch prints with an English bullet specified should be clue enough to at the very least suspect.

Where or can you buy cordite today?
Would be interesting to load both the 505 Gibs and 500 Jeffery to original loadings and see the velocities produced.

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
If you do some research it is obvious that the vast majority of original Jefffery info

no offense, what's your point? more than 50% of the original 500 jefferys survive.. classic redirection when arguement is lost

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
was lost during the fire bombings both in Germany

jeffery wasn't IN germany . unless, of course, you are now suggesting the schuler=thejeffery. my great uncle flew missions firebombing germany .. he's a confederate airforce colonel now, when out of the VA .. been my favorite uncle since i could remember .. learning history at his knee, ,which was part of the man that flew the firebombing aircraft ..germany's a big country, son, and lots and lots of things survived it ... please research where the firebombings ACTUALLY took place.. i know it sounds cool to say "firebombing" but do be, well, realistic ,, which place, of the THREE choices do you think the jaegars and the gunmakers held their secrets?

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
and in England.

was never firebombed .. v2 rocket barrages where called the blitz, and were HE .. please DO try to get facts straight

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
The few scant bits of written evidence that do exsist

exist, i presume, contradict you.. scant? seriously, you are trying to play "too few resources" and THEN trying to state non-contemporary (we call these secondary) sources are to be considered authoratative? really? that's your point? LMFAO .. go ask a history prof if he believes the accounts from the 1100s vs the accounts from lindisfarn .. there's ONE account from lindisfarn, son ... and its held as primary source

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
are not the entire history.

really? you mean data from 1934, declaring no known cordite loads by THE man that built at least 21 of the 24 isn't sufficent?

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:

The 1928 English Kynoch prints with an English bullet specified

specified an english bullet,in a german case (your own kynock research indicates this)

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
should be clue

that, like rigby, they prefered the heavier steel jacketed english bullet, ala 416 rigby

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
enough to at the very least suspect.

suspect of what?
ALL kynoch 500 jeffery ammo was loaded into german made cases pre 1940 .. your own data
..

so, drop the charade, dane, you are invested in this, and simplely aren't willing to say "g, i was wrong all this time"

Huvius - i have decyphered this proof load data on a previous page ..If you care to present alternate le(a)nard (zoom in, the a and r are shortscripted.. at casual glance, it appears to be lenad.. there's an obvious A and R at 175%) please do so .. but, if you happen to have some period kynock, i'll pay tou hansomly for a single round

in short, the PROOF is clear (pun intended)

The gunmaker ( finnisher) who supplied the 21 rifles for Jeffery in 500 Jeffery was in fact H Leonard and not H Lenord as miss- spelt in Wal Winfers book on the Jeffery Single shots.

H Leonard is the name as it appears in the Jeffery ledgers, Rifle No 1 in the series of 21 is listed as delivered to Jeffery on 6/12/ 1927.

Based on the timeline the name H Leonard is in all likelyhood Daniel H Leonard of Birmingham.

There were quite a few H Leonard's in Birmighham at the turn of the century.

Winfer in error spells Leonard as Lenord and he even refers to the fact that there were at least 4 other "Lenords" in Birmingham.

There are no less than 17 Leonards listed for Birmigham in Nigel Brown's volume 2

A entry in the Birmingham proof house is also for Mr H Leonard and it is dated 24/05/1937

The Proof house entry for Westley Richards and where Mr Leonards name appears was for a Double Rifle built for a Mr Gross on 1937, it is the only known example of a 500 Jeffery in in a double.

Mauser Produced the barreled actions, all were sinle square bridge magnum actions. The importer was Le Personne of Belgium, the finnisher was H Leonard and the Proprietor was WJ Jeffery.

I have rifle Number 5 in the series of 21 and also an identical, but on standard action 375 H&H also by Leonard for Jeffery. The stippling on the bridges identical to the 500.